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Valencia GP to have only 45,000 seats


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#1 kosmos

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:28

2008 - 100.000
2009 - 75.000
2011 - 65.000
2012 - 45.000

Source: El Pais newspaper

lol

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#2 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:33

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I hope we get rid of this awful track

#3 mgs315

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:38

Does it mean that's how many have been sold or that's all there is?

#4 Cavani

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:41

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#5 kosmos

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:42

that's all there is?


Seats available in the grandstands, not seats sold so far, or seats available till the venue is sold out.


#6 Zava

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:45

I'd like to go on...

2008 - 100.000
2009 - 75.000
2011 - 65.000
2012 - 45.000
2013 - 0 ? :)

#7 zepunishment

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:02

I got an email from Groupon last week offering a hefty discount package for a grandstand seat and weekend hotel stay, seems like they can't give them away. With good reason. Nice city, but I hope the track gets killed off soon.

#8 ali.unal

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:08

Bring Turkey back! (so I can attend races)

#9 Disgrace

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:20

Excellent news, for the disposal of what could be the worst track in history can only be as such.

#10 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:24

Blame Tilke, He is pathetic. His best looking track (USA) wasnt even designed by his company. Total garbage.

#11 jamiegc

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:35

I'd like to go on...

2008 - 100.000
2009 - 75.000
2011 - 65.000
2012 - 45.000
2013 - 0 ? :)


There is no 2013 Valencia GP, it's Barcelona I believe.

#12 Zava

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:40

There is no 2013 Valencia GP, it's Barcelona I believe.

that actually means I'm right. :p
(ok then, 2014 - 0? :) )

#13 Cesc

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:59

Valencia is in bankrupt, I don't even know how can they still celebrate the GP.

#14 Risil

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:03

Valencia is in bankrupt, I don't even know how can they still celebrate the GP.


Already paid for/bigger financial penalties for breaking the contract.

#15 Hacklerf

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:07

Shit track, do not want

#16 squiresm

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:08

Blame Tilke, He is pathetic. His best looking track (USA) wasnt even designed by his company. Total garbage.

Some of his tracks have been poor, but what exactly would you expect for Valencia considering he was given a plot of industrial land running around a harbour, on which to design it? Give him a decent plot of land and free reign and he's capable of producing some gems, such as India and Turkey.

#17 Disgrace

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 10:19

gems, such as India


:well:

#18 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:04

Blame Tilke, He is pathetic. His best looking track (USA) wasnt even designed by his company. Total garbage.


He has also made good tracks, like Malaysia or Turkey.

#19 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:17

I think a good way to determine just how bad it is, is that even with DRS, KERS and Pirelli tyres, last years race was still duller than dull dishwater. Even Barcelona, a regular snoreathon has been more interesting than normal in the last 2 years. Admittedly that's not saying much, but at least with Barcelona you feel like there's been at least a minor improvement in how interesting the races have been. If DRS, KERS and Pirelli tyres can't result in any sort of improvement, then it's clearly a complete dead duck of a track. The sooner it's ditched, the better. I'd like to see the European GP being held at different venues every year.

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 23 May 2012 - 11:18.


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#20 ivand911

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:24

Bring Turkey back! (so I can attend races)

Me too.


#21 King Six

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:24

:well:

Hang on, the track has received quite good praise from almost everyone. It's just that it's set in a dust bowl/pollution bowl region where the sky is perpetually brown so it all looks like shit.

Abu Dhabi and Valencia are Tilke's main abominations, the other ones are average/ok and some are good. But really one man shouldn't be responsible for like half the circuits on the calendar. I think FIA/F1 needs to open itself up now, people like Bernie, Tilke and Whiting have too much influence and the sport will stagnate in the long term.

Also expect this to happen at alot of the new circuits, hardly any of them get good spectator numbers. Turkey has gone because nobody turned up. Korea will go because nobody will turn up. China and India might stay for a little while longer. Bahrain nobody turned up. Abu Dhabi seems to be hit and miss, but it's a massively unpopular circuit amongst all fans and most drivers.

These new circuits spend hundreds of millions building state of the art facilities and paying Bernie whatever ridiculous hosting fee he demands, and then nobody turns up so they close down. The only thing they achieve in the process is to make the teams and people like Bernie force the older circuits to upgrade their facilities, because they all expect to have a Jacuzzi in the paddock for every team member, whilst also jacking up the race hosting fees by orders of magnitude, because now they're getting paid 5 times more by the new circuits.

The bubble will burst sooner rather than later. These new circuits are being built on some of the dumbest business plans ever. Bernie and F1 doesn't give a shit, infact I don't give a shit either, I just find it annoying how the new circuits are ruining the old ones too in terms of unnecessarily raising expectations for facilities and race fees.

Edited by King Six, 23 May 2012 - 11:33.


#22 Atreiu

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:51

Bring Turkey back! (so I can attend races)



I'll second that even if I can't attend it!
Emtpy stands for empty stands it beter than anythign else plus a lot of half filled GPs!!!

#23 d246

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 12:05

Bring Turkey back! (so I can attend races)



Once a year at Christmas is enough for me thanks. Find it a bit dry.

#24 nada12

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 13:37

I keep being amazed at how little planning and research seems to be going into building these tracks and bidding for a race. It's like they just fall for Bernie's sweet talk without even exploring whether the race is sustainable and profitable long term, all the while ignoring the glaring hints coming out of the news about tracks in a similar situation.

Their business plan probably reads like this:
- Step 1: Build a racetrack and get an F1 race
- Step 2: ?
- Step 3: Profit

#25 F1ultimate

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 14:16

Finally some news that brings the entire forum to one front. The Valencia GP was a mistake, and it was a mistake to call it the European GP because Valencia isn't Europe nor is it a city that many in Europe relate to.

Most importantly the theme of trying to replicate lushious Monaco was a naive attempt. Monaco is special and building a marina circuit elsewhere doesn't even come close to replicating Monaco's history or prestige.

Bernie Ecclestone and CVC pray on financial ignorance and the lust of egocentric politicians for glory. Valencia, Korea and Bahrain are just a few examples of what happens down the line after Bernie has signed up his ideal clients.

#26 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 18:17

Once a year at Christmas is enough for me thanks. Find it a bit dry.


:rotfl:

#27 Disgrace

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 18:25

Hang on, the track has received quite good praise from almost everyone. It's just that it's set in a dust bowl/pollution bowl region where the sky is perpetually brown so it all looks like shit.


Good post, personally I am not a fan of the Buddh circuit. I find it distinctly average, but certainly not bad. I prefer Singapore/Malaysia/Turkey/Shanghai/Korea. The first two I actively like, whilst Korea was good when it was rough in 2010 but will slowly transform back into super clean/smooth of other tracks.

Abu Dhabi and Valencia are Tilke's main abominations, the other ones are average/ok and some are good. But really one man shouldn't be responsible for like half the circuits on the calendar. I think FIA/F1 needs to open itself up now, people like Bernie, Tilke and Whiting have too much influence and the sport will stagnate in the long term.


:up: :up:

The latter point is partially why I am no fan of the Indian track. It is unoriginal and uninspiring. This formula of track design has long since peaked. Personally, I find simple things like curved straights (i.e no lift) and long corners are desperately lacking. Take Curva Grande, the cars look much faster and more exciting there than at the end of any Indian or Korean "longest" straight.

Also expect this to happen at alot of the new circuits, hardly any of them get good spectator numbers. Turkey has gone because nobody turned up. Korea will go because nobody will turn up. China and India might stay for a little while longer. Bahrain nobody turned up. Abu Dhabi seems to be hit and miss, but it's a massively unpopular circuit amongst all fans and most drivers.


True, I would be surprised to see either Shanghai or India go anytime soon, if at all. Such untapped potential, whereas the Korean and Turkish circuits are in the middle of nowhere. A shame really, they seem to have a habit of putting good circuits where nobody will go. Bahrain and Abu Dhabi will remain as long as the fee is paid, and spectators will be irrelevant. They are more towards tendering to VIPs.

The bubble will burst sooner rather than later. These new circuits are being built on some of the dumbest business plans ever. Bernie and F1 doesn't give a shit, infact I don't give a shit either, I just find it annoying how the new circuits are ruining the old ones too in terms of unnecessarily raising expectations for facilities and race fees.


:up:

Again though, if the bubble bursts, it will still be the older circuits the fans prefer that will be hit due to their geography. Emerging markets are not suffering anywhere near as much economically, and will be better placed to adapt anyway. This is where the modern Tilkedromes are.

Edited by Disgrace, 23 May 2012 - 18:32.


#28 ali.unal

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 19:35

Once a year at Christmas is enough for me thanks. Find it a bit dry.

Yeah. Still clinging to 19th century jokes, eh? :rolleyes:

#29 Alx09

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 20:44

Bring Turkey back! (so I can attend races)

...and for being an awesome track!

Lets hope the number for Valencia will be 0 for 2013.

Edited by Alx09, 23 May 2012 - 20:45.


#30 BRG

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:42

Yeah. Still clinging to 19th century jokes, eh? :rolleyes:

Well, the old ones are still the best. And that goes for race tracks as well as jokes.

#31 SonnyViceR

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 11:20

Their business plan probably reads like this:
- Step 1: Build a racetrack and get an F1 race
- Step 2: ?
- Step 3: Profit


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#32 kosmos

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:31

-Valencia has sold less than 40,000 tickets
-And of the 38,000 tickets sold, 64 per cent of them were purchased by foreign visitors.

http://motorsport.ne...kets,43564.html

How can they justify having this track for 2014?.

#33 Disgrace

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:38

Aren't those sort of figures worse than what Turkey was often posting?

Edited by Disgrace, 13 June 2012 - 08:39.


#34 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:39

-Valencia has sold less than 40,000 tickets
-And of the 38,000 tickets sold, 64 per cent of them were purchased by foreign visitors.

http://motorsport.ne...kets,43564.html

How can they justify having this track for 2014?.


To be fair - while Valencia sucks big time - isn't that the point; sell as many tickets to foreigners as possible who will be able to put heir foreign money into air lines, taxis, restaraunts etc and just generally spend more money into the local economy than the local people. In that sense, they've done well in my opinion.

It's abit like my situation in Huddersfield. We have a football ground called Galpharm. The team is a fairly low division team and only local people come to watch them. Should our team get into the premiership, HUGE amounts of money will be put into into the local economy into things such as food, extra pubs, clubs, hotels, parking fees that the council will be collecting etc and that can only be a good thing for the struggling local economy.

#35 FredrikB

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:41

-Valencia has sold less than 40,000 tickets
-And of the 38,000 tickets sold, 64 per cent of them were purchased by foreign visitors.

http://motorsport.ne...kets,43564.html

How can they justify having this track for 2014?.

As long as they pay their fee to Bernie, they will stay on the calender.
But how many here really believes that there will be a race in Valencia 2014? Not me.

#36 Clatter

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:45

-Valencia has sold less than 40,000 tickets
-And of the 38,000 tickets sold, 64 per cent of them were purchased by foreign visitors.

http://motorsport.ne...kets,43564.html

How can they justify having this track for 2014?.


Wrong question. BE doesn't care how many people attend the race as long as he gets the sanctioning fee.



#37 Felix

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 08:57

Aren't those sort of figures worse than what Turkey was often posting?


They are worse than Turkey was CLAIMING but better than the actual situation - assuming 38 000 tickets have really been sold. For all we know it could be 13 000 three-day tickets - promoters take each day as a separate ticket. Turkey pulled about 20 000 payers on race day at the last race.

#38 puxanando

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:03

I know from a friend who lives in Valencia that there is a great F1 environment in his city! I think it will be fine..... :)

#39 kosmos

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 09:20

Wrong question. BE doesn't care how many people attend the race as long as he gets the sanctioning fee.



I was talking about the people that pay the fee, so it's not a wrong question. I know that BE don't give a shit as long as he gets the check.

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#40 Clatter

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 10:40

I know from a friend who lives in Valencia that there is a great F1 environment in his city! I think it will be fine..... :)


There might be good environment in the city, but that isn't putting bums on seats and paying the bills. The attendance has shrunk year by year, and the fact the race is one of the worst on the calender doesn't help.

#41 ruby soho

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:04

Yeah valencia needs to go. It's like Monaco, but without the glamour and history. It's just a borefest.

#42 Disgrace

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:10

Yeah valencia needs to go. It's like Monaco, but without the glamour and history. It's just a borefest.


It's nothing like Monaco. Valencia isn't even a street circuit as it doesn't use actual roads. It is simply a walled Tilkedrome with an industrial estate for a backdrop. It has the blandness of a contemporary circuit combined with the limitations of a street circuit. At least Abu Dhabi is shiny.

#43 JtP1

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:17

Since watching the race on the fish tank is pretty bad, but it does stop Singapore being the worst tv experience. I can't imagine why anyone wants to buy a ticket and sit to get baked in a concrete bowl.

#44 ruby soho

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:19

It's nothing like Monaco. Valencia isn't even a street circuit as it doesn't use actual roads. It is simply a walled Tilkedrome with an industrial estate for a backdrop. It has the blandness of a contemporary circuit combined with the limitations of a street circuit. At least Abu Dhabi is shiny.

I mean't the racing aspect. No overtaking, walls everywhere, 2 hours of driving in a pack with nothing happening.

Edited by ruby soho, 13 June 2012 - 11:19.


#45 Risil

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:42

Gentlemen, please! Those are both equally terrible aspects of the circuit!

I'd say it wouldn't be an exaggeration to call it the worst track in the history of the World Championship for Drivers. The car park of Caesar's Palace casino was pretty hard to beat but looking at the racing that's taken place in Valencia since 2008, there's only one real contender.

Edited by Risil, 13 June 2012 - 11:44.


#46 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 11:43

To be fair - while Valencia sucks big time - isn't that the point; sell as many tickets to foreigners as possible who will be able to put heir foreign money into air lines, taxis, restaraunts etc and just generally spend more money into the local economy than the local people. In that sense, they've done well in my opinion.

It's abit like my situation in Huddersfield. We have a football ground called Galpharm. The team is a fairly low division team and only local people come to watch them. Should our team get into the premiership, HUGE amounts of money will be put into into the local economy into things such as food, extra pubs, clubs, hotels, parking fees that the council will be collecting etc and that can only be a good thing for the struggling local economy.


It's a fair point, but at the same time, the track produces terrible racing (even DRS, KERS and Pirelli tyres last year didn't make it any better), it's a dull track that isn't particularly challenging, the drivers don't seem to like it, and it seems like they want to be a Spanish version of Monaco with a harbour and it's just a complete failure in every way really. Slightly off topic, hello from a fellow Huddersfield resident!

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 13 June 2012 - 11:45.


#47 bourbon

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 15:16

Not everyone agrees. I have always liked Valencia as much as everywhere else.

#48 F1ultimate

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 15:46

Not everyone agrees. I have always liked Valencia as much as everywhere else.

Its only redeeming factor is that I enjoy driving it in F1 2011. The circuit flows nicely for me unlike Singapore which annoys me with its super right and slow corners.

#49 Cavani

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 15:57

Not everyone agrees. I have always liked Valencia as much as everywhere else.


the 2011 killed any remaining passion for valencia for me , but being a vettel fan you wont find it boring i guess

#50 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 16:03

It's a fair point, but at the same time, the track produces terrible racing (even DRS, KERS and Pirelli tyres last year didn't make it any better), it's a dull track that isn't particularly challenging, the drivers don't seem to like it, and it seems like they want to be a Spanish version of Monaco with a harbour and it's just a complete failure in every way really. Slightly off topic, hello from a fellow Huddersfield resident!


:wave:

Hello indeed.

PS: Are you a motorsports photographer?