135 replies to this topic

[SonnyViceR]

Well?

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think Indy is the hardest for the driver, because you can't just have a dominant car.

And I'd replace Coke/World 600 NASCAR for Le Mans, mainly for that reason.

[gm914]

I voted
1) Monaco GP. Jewel of the crown
2) Le Mans 24. Has a lot more relevance in regards to road cars and usable technology.
*At least that is what I took from the 'Significance in Present-Day world of Motorsports'.
3)Monaco GP. Think of how many drivers have actually had the chance to race there (comparitavely), let alone in a race-winning car.

Edited by gm914, 26 May 2012 - 17:43.

[MidKnight]

Well the Indy 500 should have a huge asterix next to it...it does not draw the best American drivers much less the best drivers in the world...if Indy truly was a leg of the triple then guys like Tony Stewart would run it...

[August]

1) Le Mans, not Monaco because grid penalties from last race can ruin even a perfect weekend at Monaco.
2) Monaco GP. I think it attracts not only fans but also sponsors' representatives and celebrities.
3) Monaco GP. Any F1 race is harder to win than Indy 500 or Le Mans.

[MidKnight]

I think Indy is the hardest for the driver, because you can't just have a dominant car.

And I'd replace Coke/World 600 NASCAR for Le Mans, mainly for that reason.

That is insulting. Daytona and Indy are more important NASCAR races. Ridiculous to suggest that a third tier NASCAR race is more prestigious then Le Mans...

[gm914]

Third tier?
Explain please.

[BigCHrome]

I wouldn't say that Le Mans is that significant for the driver because all the attention goes to the manufacturer. I'd wager that a lot of people that visit the race don't even know the winners of last years' event.

[SonnyViceR]

I wouldn't say that Le Mans is that significant for the driver

Drivers have to

share the car with two extra drivers = compromise in setup and preferences
go quick and safe in heavy traffic, lower class cars are up to 40 seconds slower per lap and won't necessarily yield
manage your tires so that you can double, triple or even quattro stint them to save time
looooong driving stints
have the mentality to wake up 3AM and have next driving stint waiting in 15 minutes
qo equally as quick at night (no floodlights for the most of the circuit)
live with constant heat in closed cockpit (LMP1/LMP2 coupes and GTs) and have much poorer visibility especially in rain
etc

None of this happens with Monaco or Indy

Edited by SonnyViceR, 26 May 2012 - 18:08.

[Ross Stonefeld]

That is insulting. Daytona and Indy are more important NASCAR races. Ridiculous to suggest that a third tier NASCAR race is more prestigious then Le Mans...

Third tier would be trucks, Coke 600 is a Cup race. So the same people at Daytona 500 and Brickyard 400. It just fits nicely that the Coke 600 is the same day as Indy and Monaco, so could be part of it's own triple crown.

Le Mans is 'meh' these days.

[johnap]

1) Le Mans, only missed it three tiimes since 1998 and i'll be heading there to watch it again next month.

2) Le Mans, the variety chassis engines and tyres, the number of manufacturers and the open approach to technology.

3) Monaco, the difficulty in overtaking and the need to have qualified high up the grid, also the race is much shorter so theres less time to make up ground.

[FenderJaguar]

Almost any decent driver could win Le Mans and it's not what it once was. Monaco and Indy is on another level.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 26 May 2012 - 19:18.

[Fulcrum]

1. Indy 500
2. Indy 500
3. Indy 500

Le Mans - untalented drivers, slow cars, the most boring race on the planet.
Monaco - Its just an f1 gp with celebrities, nothing more. And the second most boring race on planet after Le Mans.

Edited by Fulcrum, 26 May 2012 - 21:04.

[OfficeLinebacker]

I think Coke 600 should replace LeMans on the list and it should be the hardest to win because it's very long and grueling, there are more competitors to race against, and qualifying doesn't really matter.
Monaco is my fave race to watch though because it's shorter and because of the new F1.

[Fastcake]

1. Monaco easily.
2. Monaco. Could depend on what you mean by significant, though I'm taking it as the biggest and most important race. Monaco's the only one that will gain some general attention - Indy is a shadow of the former days and pretty much American only anyway, while Le Mans seems insignificant outside the motorsport world.
3. Tough one but I'll probably go with Le Mans.

[Dispenser89]

1. Used to be Monaco, but it's become Indy in recent years.
2. Monaco.
3. Le Mans.

[PorcupineTroy]

1. Monaco, it's like nothing else in present-day motorsport (except maybe Macau or Pau ). In a stark contrast to many modern race tracks, F1 cars look properly fast around Monaco.

2. Le Mans. It's probably the one I'm least interested in, but the manufacturer's seem to have a very open approaching to creating the cars, and it seems the most relevant to road car technology. If the most significant means the most prestigious to win from a driver/team view, than my vote would probably go to the Indy 500. Winning the 500 these days is almost bigger than winning the Indycar championship itself.

3. Indy 500, as it's the one that is the least car-dependent (unless the differences between teams at the 24h is less than I am led to believe). Although when it rains in the principality...

Edited by PorcupineTroy, 26 May 2012 - 20:49.

[BRG]

Almost any decent driver could win Le Mans and it's not what it once was. Monaco and Indy is on another level.

Rubbish. It is no coincidence that certain drivers are multiple winners at Le Mans. Ickx, Bell, Kristensen - they have skills that ordinary 'decent' drivers lack. Any monkey can win Indy given a good car and a good crew to tell him what to do. Buddies Rice and Lazier demonstrate that. As for Monaco, how amny other GPs did Beltoise, Panis or Trulli win?

[Victor]

Indy is now a spec series with second best drivers. This is a real shame for the prestigious race that Indy 500 was but unfortunately is no more (still a fantastic race to watch, nevertheless). Monaco and Le Mans are at a different level nowadays.
As for that Coke 600 what is that? A drink? A rodeo? I thought this thread was about great motorsport events.

[johnap]

I think Coke 600 should replace LeMans on the list and it should be the hardest to win because it's very long and grueling, there are more competitors to race against, and qualifying doesn't really matter.
Monaco is my fave race to watch though because it's shorter and because of the new F1.

Le Mans is longer and harder than the Coke 600, Le Mans has 56 entries compared to 43 in Nascar and qualifying doesn't really matter at Le Mans eitherwhat with it being 24 Hours long.

The Coke 600 is a great event but its not anything like on the same level as Le Mans.

The Daytona 500 could easily be added alongside Indy/Monaco/Le Mans though.

[Ross Stonefeld]

How many cars *per class* at Le Mans though? In NASCAR the first 21 guys have a chance to win. You only get 21 drivers that can win at Le Mans if you have 4 Audis and 3 Toyotas.

[Muulka]

1. Indy 500
2. Indy 500
3. Indy 500

Le Mans - untalented drivers, slow cars, the most boring race on the planet.
Monaco - Its just an f1 gp with celebrities, nothing more. And the second most boring race on planet after Le Mans.

I'd guess thet you've never actually watched Le Mans?
And FYI, the cars are anything but slow. Around Silverstone they're damn dear the top few formulae in terms of lap time and far superior in terms of reliabilty.
I thought hard at this, and I actually ended up with Le Mans for all. While Monaco is tough, it's not 24 hours long. The 500 is full of rubbish drivers and tbh on an oval where you're flat out it doesn't take much to get pole if you've got the best setup. When was the last time you say 'Monaco winner!' or 'Indy winner' on an advert? Audi does nothing but show us the R18.
And personally, you just can't beat the sheer atmosphere of twilight at Le Mans. It's evverything motorsport is about.

[sumpthy]

Third tier would be trucks, Coke 600 is a Cup race. So the same people at Daytona 500 and Brickyard 400. It just fits nicely that the Coke 600 is the same day as Indy and Monaco, so could be part of it's own triple crown.

Le Mans is 'meh' these days.

Just because it's also a Cup race doesn't make it as prestigious as Daytona. Using that logic you could say that Abu Dhabi GP is as prestigious as Monte Carlo GP...

[sumpthy]

I thought hard at this, and I actually ended up with Le Mans for all. While Monaco is tough, it's not 24 hours long. The 500 is full of rubbish drivers and tbh on an oval where you're flat out it doesn't take much to get pole if you've got the best setup. When was the last time you say 'Monaco winner!' or 'Indy winner' on an advert? Audi does nothing but show us the R18.

When was the last time a car company that advertises even won at Monaco or Indianapolis? IIRC it was Renault back in 2006 but they already had '2005 F1 WORLD CHAMPIONS' in every advert they were airing back then so they didn't need another accolade to add.

[MidKnight]

Lots of nonsense in this thread...why does the "triple crown" of racing have to be races that are run on the same day? Ridiculous.

Lemans Indy and Monaco steeped in history...Coke 600? The NASCAR candidate would by the Daytona 500 - obviously.

And how can anyone with a straight face claim that Lemans is not what it use to be? Alert me when Monaco and Lemans have a 1996 IndyCar situation, then let's talk. The fact is the Indy 500 is the race that isn't what it used to be.

Bathurst should be considered before a 600 mile NASCAR race that isn't even considered the most prestigious race by NASCAR itself. What a ridiculous assertion.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The Charlotte 600 is as old as Daytona, so....

I think it makes a good triple crown because they're all on the same weekend. And if we picked Daytona you idiots would just complain it's pack racing.

[Muulka]

When was the last time a car company that advertises even won at Monaco or Indianapolis? IIRC it was Renault back in 2006 but they already had '2005 F1 WORLD CHAMPIONS' in every advert they were airing back then so they didn't need another accolade to add.

If a Chevy car wins Indy this year I'd imagine that they'd milk it considerably

[Atreiu]

Is Coke 600 a junkies dream? Never heard of it. Not when discussing the most import and prestigious races in the world, no matter how long they go.

IMO, the Indy 500 seems the hardest because it's not straightforward like any F1 race. And Le Mans has been AUDI Peugeot playgroud for a while. It needs more competition.

[sumpthy]

If a Chevy car wins Indy this year I'd imagine that they'd milk it considerably

Exactly my point. He's arguing that Audi advertising the hell out of winning Le Mans proves that Le Mans is more prestigious when we haven't got anyone in a similar position to capitalise on winning Monaco or Indy. (I suppose you could argue that Red Bull if you really wanted but it's not the same as a dedicated car company).

[ArnageWRC]

There's some comedy gold on here......

[JRizzle86]

Le Mans
Le Mans
Le Mans

I love F1 but Le Mans is so engaging and fun to follow even if you aren't there. Also by far the most challenging out of the 3 in sheer terms of endurance.

[Jimisgod]

Le Mans kind of sunk a bit with the diesels and Audi domination. Indy went through 1996, enough said. In all Monaco has. fallen the least in recent decades, but it is only a fancy F1 championshio round, really. Monza is about equal, it's just that they are basically the 2 tracks that haven't been ruined over 60 years.

If we ran on Nordschlife (sp) still it would be considered better.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Le Mans is longer and harder than the Coke 600, Le Mans has 56 entries compared to 43 in Nascar and qualifying doesn't really matter at Le Mans eitherwhat with it being 24 Hours long.

The Coke 600 is a great event but its not anything like on the same level as Le Mans.

The Daytona 500 could easily be added alongside Indy/Monaco/Le Mans though.

I'm more focusing on the date aspect than the prestige aspect.

The Daytona 500 may have reputation but it's not a great race and it's not hard to win....someone else mentioned some anonymous Monaco winners. How about Trevor Bayne, Ward Burton, Derricke Cope? Daytona 500 winner is literally the ONLY thing on those guys' resumes. The trained monkey comment is most accurate for restrictor plate races.

I still think Coke 600 is the hardest one to win. For one on the OP's list it has to be the Indy 500 due to parity and competitiveness.

[Lemnpiper]

Le Mans kind of sunk a bit with the diesels and Audi domination. Indy went through 1996, enough said. In all Monaco has. fallen the least in recent decades, but it is only a fancy F1 championshio round, really. Monza is about equal, it's just that they are basically the 2 tracks that haven't been ruined over 60 years.

If we ran on Nordschlife (sp) still it would be considered better.

I voted

1. Indianapolis 500

2 Lemans

3 Monaco



But deep down i feel the specialization of most series now that preclude active drivers from trying races in other series a couple of time a year has hurt all of the races.

That said if such a Triple Crown was created what tracks would be need to be able to attract a diverse world wide group of drivers to compete without it coming off as an overblown IROC series.

And For those that wish to include a Nascar race would you consider a race like the Bathhurst 1000 as a potential equal to the world 600 or daytona 500?

Paul

[DanardiF1]

I voted:

1. Le Mans - Even as a huge F1 fan there is nothing that compares to the 24 hours. It's both relaxed and tense, exciting and patient, and a true test of everyone involved, whether they're the slowest car on the track or they're the LMP1 leader.
2. Le Mans - Same reasons. Monaco is great but is mainly just a party for 'those who have', and 'those who have' don't actually care that much about F1.
3. Monaco - You have to get yourself in the right car at the right time, and as people like Panis have shown, even then it's not necessarily a 'top team' car you have to get yourself into. Weather, attrition and the sense of occasion can all play a major part in the stars aligning for whichever driver is going to win. Sometimes they won't, but sometimes they will.

[Nonesuch]

Interesting poll, especially so because you can sort of see the votes shift with each question.

Personal favourite: Le Mans. If Le Mans was a bi-weekly event, this wouldn't be up here. But it isn't, and it's such a great event that I'll putting this one on top. I like the track, I like the cars, the classes, the seemingly relaxed - but very serious and dedicated - atmosphere, the length of the race, the great crowds, etc. I've unfortunately never actually been to the race, but I've made a point of watching as much as possible of the coverage Le Mans gets each year. The Monaco GP is decent, but only because of F1. The track layout is atrocious, the possibilities for high-speed racing almost non-existent, and the city itself has a very dated 1970s/1980s look to it. Still, if F1 cars are racing, I'll watch it. Indy 500 is something I watch while doing something else, mostly due to the seemingly endless running behind the safety-car and the fact that I don't know most of the drivers and teams, which makes the competition less interesting to me.

Most significant: Le Mans. If didn't watch all three races, I very doubt I'd ever hear who won the Indy 500. I imagine this is different in the United States, but probably not so in any of the other 200 or so countries. The Monaco GP is said to be very prestigious F1, which it very well might be, but it doesn't award any more point points than events like Valencia or Abu Dhabi. Le Mans, on the other hand, is a very public affair for the manufacturers involved in the race. In recent years Audi and Peugeot have both used their successes in their advertisement campaigns, TV commercials etc. Heck, they've even made a movie about it.

Hardest to win [for a driver]: Monaco GP. The Monaco GP is probably the hardest to win, if only because the field is smallest, you have to (not technically, but practucally) comepete in the entire F1 championship, and you need one of the three or so cars capable of winning any race, let alone Monaco, to have a decent chance. Le Mans is of course mighty difficult as well, for similar reasons: the importance of the car, the endless length of the race, serious competition, etc. As for Indy 500, the multiple winners suggest there is at least some tactic to it, but I've always found it to be a very randomized affair with the endless running behind the safety-car.

Edited by Nonesuch, 27 May 2012 - 07:31.

[Peat]

3) Monaco GP. Any F1 race is harder to win than Indy 500 or Le Mans.

Hahaha. Funny.

[Peat]

Personal Fav: Le Mans - Great event. Wonderful mix of cars. Real test of man and machine.

Most Significant: Monaco - As is proved by this very thread and poll, the vast majority of people consider motorsport as 'F1'. So in terms on global impact and 'Ka-ching!', Monaco has to take it. Every man alive knows what the Monaco GP is.

Hardest to win: Indy500 - At Monaco, if you have a decent car, get it done on Saturday and you can more or less control the entire race. At Le Mans, superior preparation will count for alot, if you are in a factory car you will have an advantage (Audi), however because of the duration, there is alot that 'can' go wrong. Indy just edges it for me. The margins are so small, fuel strategy is king and the scope for it all going wrong is so huge. Anyone in the top 20 odd could win that race this afternoon if cautions fall right.

[HoldenRT]

Monaco as fave but Indy as hardest to win.

[Puhoon]

Which event is your personal favourite?
Coke 600
Generally speaking, which is actually the most significant event in the present-day world of motorsports?
Coke 600
In your opinion, which event is the hardest to win [for a driver]
Coke 600

[PayasYouRace]

Monaco is my personal favourite, but I love all 3.

I think at the moment Monaco is the most significant, but I think Indy and Le Mans have both had times, even fairly recently, when they were more significant.

For me there's one aspect of Le Mans which makes it most difficult to win from a driver's perspective, and that's that you have to share your car with other drivers. While it does take the pressure off somewhat, there is a significant part of the race where winning is totally out of your control. You have to have teammates that are just as capable of winning as you are.

[kurski]

Yes, Le Mans 24h race is for me the best of these, and Monaco worst.

[motorhead]

Only these options?....naah I vote for Isle of Man TT and Spa...

[Amphicar]

As I remember it, when Graham Hill won the Le Mans 24 Hrs in 1972, the Triple Crown he achieved was the F1 World Drivers Championship, the Indy 500 and Le Mans. Back then Indy and Le Mans were such high profile, prestigious races that the F1 equivalent had to be a championship not just a single race (though if it had been the Monaco GP, Graham would have had that base covered five times over!)

Since then, the Indy 500 has declined to such an extent that it is no longer even the most significant race at the Brickyard. Le Mans has fluctuated in significance, depending on the level of manufacturer participation but is (in my estimation) about as significant now as it was back in the 70s. By contrast, largely due to Bernie Ecclestone's manipulative skills, F1 has become (at least outside the USA) all-dominant, overshadowing all other racing series - and Monaco is the jewel in that particular crown.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Indy is back to/still is bigger than the Brickyard 400.

[Red17]

I don't understand why some people think Monaco should be replaced by the WDC. If we follow that logic the Triple Crown would be WEC (which didnt exist until this year again), Indycar Series and F1 World Drivers Championship.

Personally I consider Monaco harder to win than the championship because it's so easy to screw up. First of all the race is actually held in 2 days with a first leg running under the guise of Qualifying. On Sunday you have the second leg that is called race but requires a ton of strategy and focus. Everyone wants to win there and sponsors queue just to show up there. Add nursing to that and you have a long list of notables that won the race. Panis jackpot is unlikely to repeat in the next years. There is also the small factor that you can pretty much enter Lemans and Indy as a one off race. But for Monaco you have to race the whole championship.

Graham Hill has followed what I think is the best path, get the Monaco leg done first (as it can drag for a long time), move on to Indy and save Lemans for last (and you have to sort of luck out on your team as well). JPM did win Indy first, tho ironically without being a IRL regular. For Lemans he now needs a factory seat, but im not sure he has even considered doing Lemans.

Edit: We could consider however that JPM is trying to achieve the Four by winning at Daytona before Lemans. So JPM would have won 4 races without being champion in 3 of those series.

Edited by Red17, 04 June 2012 - 13:33.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think we can all but give the title to Montoya. He won multiple races in CART, F1, and NASCAR, and an Indy 500. In the modern era where people don't switch series. If he can win on an oval in NASCAR he'll enter the elite group without question.

[Kingshark]

24 hour Le Mans. I wouldn't call Monaco the best because if you are leading, you can race at half the potential speed there, and still win. You don't need defending and wheel-to-wheel racing ability at Monaco.

[biercemountain]

I've always thought of the Triple Crown as being the Indy 500, Le Mans and the Daytona 500. Mario got the closest to winning all three (not that he ever got that close to winning Le Mans). Perhaps Montoya will become the first to do it.

[Amphicar]

I've always thought of the Triple Crown as being the Indy 500, Le Mans and the Daytona 500. Mario got the closest to winning all three (not that he ever got that close to winning Le Mans). Perhaps Montoya will become the first to do it.

Maybe not - AJ Foyt beat him to it (and you can add the Daytona 24 Hrs to the list too).