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105% rule


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:01

Alesi and De Silvestro out of the race in Indy because of 105% rule

Has anyone a list of such drivers in the past?

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#2 cpbell

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:03

Alesi and De Silvestro out of the race in Indy because of 105% rule

Has anyone a list of such drivers in the past?


Pass, but I'm embarrassed by the fact that I was listening to the live radio stream on the Internet and was trying to work out who "John O'Larsy" was :drunk:

#3 kayemod

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:31

Has anyone a list of such drivers in the past?


Oh please, not this yet again. Just how many of these pointless lists are you hoping to accumulate?


#4 ensign14

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:44

I dunno if there was the same rule in the past, but Chet Filip was definitely flagged for being too slow in 1983 - he qualified in a bog-slow car thanks to taking a weather gamble.

#5 macoran

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 17:52

"John O'Larsy"

tankslapper !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#6 ryan86

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 20:21

Oh please, not this yet again. Just how many of these pointless lists are you hoping to accumulate?


They'll come in useful for afternoon quizzing though!

#7 D-Type

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:24

I've never understood Indianapolis qualifying. The number qualifying on the first day varied so it must have been on some sort of percentage basis. Then they had "bump day" where, as far as I can gather, those who had failed to qualify had another chance if they could lap faster than the slowest [final day?] qualifiers. Can someon explain it please.

When did they introduce a 105% rule?

HistoryFan, if you go to one of the many sites publishing Indianapolis statistics and count the number of starters then if any have fewer than the maximum then the 105% rule or something similar will have applied. Whoever is fastest of the non-qualifiers will be those for your list. Try googling the names and you should be able to confirm the reason they weren't allowed to start. Knowing the US sports fan's predilection for statistics you might even find someone has already compiled the list you're after and published it on his site.

#8 elansprint72

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:54

Alesi and De Silvestro out of the race in Indy because of 105% rule

Has anyone a list of such drivers in the past?



Yes; I'm sure that someone has.

#9 ryan86

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 21:57

D Type, I might wrong here because I too have always been slightly confused as well and this is going from the Codemasters Indy Car console games from about 10 years ago, but I believe if you completed a run, you couldn't then go for another run during qualifying without either withdrawing the time or waiting to get bumped. So, drivers and teams wouldn't complete a run if they didn't think it would be competitive enough to get them safely in the field.

Edited by ryan86, 27 May 2012 - 21:58.


#10 paulsenna1

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 23:24

Is the 105% rule only applied during the race? Alesi and De Silvestro did 9 or 10 laps. Were they both then blackflagged?

#11 Tuboscocca

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 18:48

Is the 105% rule only applied during the race? Alesi and De Silvestro did 9 or 10 laps. Were they both then blackflagged?



Seen it on TV: as far as I know, De Silvestro crashed and Alesi had an engine failure (Lotus) on lap 14 and retired.No 105%- rules ,no black flags...

Michael

#12 dbltop

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 21:15

On the radio broadcast, it was reported that both drivers had been instructed to pit. diSilvestro did and retired. Alesi continued for a couple of laps and was then shown the black flag.


#13 Tuboscocca

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 22:27

On the radio broadcast, it was reported that both drivers had been instructed to pit. diSilvestro did and retired. Alesi continued for a couple of laps and was then shown the black flag.



You are RIGHT:

32. #78 Simona de Silvestro Lotus + 190 laps (105 per cent rule)
33. #64 Jean Alesi Lotus + 191 laps (105 per cent rule)
that's from the 'official' result list..

But I think that de Silvestro spun before retiring..and Alesi told the interviewer how sad he was that the engine failed...politically correct!!
No mentioning of being too slow..

Sorry Michael

#14 D-Type

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 23:21

On the radio broadcast, it was reported that both drivers had been instructed to pit. diSilvestro did and retired. Alesi continued for a couple of laps and was then shown the black flag.

Isn't a black flag the formal instruction to a driver to pit? Or do flags at Indianapolis mean something different to the FIA rule book?

I see from the discussion that this "105% rule" has nothing to do with qualifying but relates to race speeds. Is it "If the time a driver has taken from the start to the end of the last lap he has completed exceeds 105% of the time taken by the leader to cover the same number of laps" ?

This is somewhat different from the old rule that required drivers not on the lead lapto continue circulating until they completed the 200 laps with the proviso that they would be "flagged off" a certain time after the winner had finished. Was it 15 minutes? That would also be about 105% but applied at the finish

What would be interesting would be to establish the biggest deficit that anyone has clawed back to win the race? In 1995 when Jacques Villeneuve was docked two laps and still won he effectively made up a 2 lap deficit. This was 1% at the finish, but more than 1% if measured retrospectively at the time of the penalty. But I'm sure that at some stage in the race's history someone has made up a bigger deficit than that. But never 5% which would be 10 laps at the start or 20 laps at half way.

Edited by D-Type, 28 May 2012 - 23:47.


#15 Allen Brown

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 19:02

HistoryFan recently asked for a list of all drivers eliminated from Indy on the 105% rule.

Has anyone a list of all such lists requested by HistoryFan in the past?

#16 E.B.

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 20:46

What would be interesting would be to establish the biggest deficit that anyone has clawed back to win the race? In 1995 when Jacques Villeneuve was docked two laps and still won he effectively made up a 2 lap deficit.


Depends how you interpret the question - Ralph de Palma was about 5 and a half laps ahead of everyone before he hit trouble in 1912, Billy Arnold was about 5 laps clear when he had that most tragic of accidents in 1931, so in both cases the winners made up a bigger deficit. Yes, I know that's probably not quite what you meant though!




#17 elansprint72

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 20:56

HAMLET

What?

Ghost

I am thy father's spirit,
Doom'd for a certain term to walk the night,
And for the day confined to fast in fires,
Till the foul crimes done in my days of nature
Are burnt and purged away. But that I am forbid
To tell the secrets of my prison-house,
I could a tale unfold whose lightest word
Would harrow up thy soul, freeze thy young blood,
Make thy two eyes, like stars, start from their spheres,
Thy knotted and combined locks to part
And each particular hair to stand on end,
Like quills upon the fretful porpentine:
But this eternal blazon must not be
To ears of flesh and blood. List, list, O, list!
If thou didst ever thy dear father love--

HAMLET

O God!

#18 ensign14

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 21:25

I would sum up by suggesting the 105% rule was invented this year as an excuse to get the Loti in the field to make the 33 and then get them out ASAP to avoid being squished by the leaders. In the past it was only if you were dangerously slow that you'd be flagged. Otherwise Filip wouldn't have made the field - he would have needed something like a 114% rule to be allowed to start.

#19 ryan86

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 00:49

I'm sure in some of the road courses over the past few years Milka Duno was black-flagged for lack of speed. I don't know if the lack was quantified or not by a percentage, or just watching the race and seeing she was a rolling road block.

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#20 dbltop

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:23

Alesi actually completed more laps than recorded but because he ignored the black flag they stopped scoring him.