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Maldonado on track aggression


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#1 schumimercamg

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 23:36

Anyone think that old Pastor might be a little bit mentally deranged? He seems to have a habit of ramming drivers and the below video suggests its been going on for sometime.

Innocent mistake or danger to other drivers?

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

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#2 johnmhinds

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 23:55

We're going to be calling drivers "mentally deranged" now?

Pretty bad example video anyway.
The tyres touched and they swerved off the track together, nothing more.

#3 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 23:56

He's always been known as a hot-head, even in GP2, but he's never been known to purposefully hit other drivers before F1 that I remember. The thing with Hamilton is hard to defend, but the thing with Perez could have been an honest mistake and he just misjudged his clearance of Perez as he was in a hurry to get on with things.

To call him 'mentally deranged' is a grave overreaction, though.

#4 KavB

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 00:11

The incident with Hamilton was clearly intentional. His incident with Perez probably wasn't. There wasn't any motivation for it, he probably did just make such a careless error.

#5 Clatter

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 00:15

He's always been known as a hot-head, even in GP2, but he's never been known to purposefully hit other drivers before F1 that I remember. The thing with Hamilton is hard to defend, but the thing with Perez could have been an honest mistake and he just misjudged his clearance of Perez as he was in a hurry to get on with things.

To call him 'mentally deranged' is a grave overreaction, though.


You must be joking. Can you find another example of a driver taking that line through there?

#6 Risil

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 00:18

He's got a bit of the Robby Gordons about him. Wouldn't mistake it for something more dangerous than that though.

#7 Juggles

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 00:32

He looks like a Bond villain and gets into car crashes just as frequently. He is the only driver currently in F1 that I dislike, mainly because he seems to have a sense of entitlement that is not justified by the level of his talent. I imagine that comes from being Chavez's golden boy. This carefully nurtured solipsism leads to the sort of incidents we have seen so far and will probably lead to others. After the Hamilton incident in Spa I consigned him to the "dangerous nutcase" drawer, and I haven't had to revise that opinion yet.

#8 Andrew Hope

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 01:18

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One man's hero is another man's retard.

#9 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:24

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One man's hero is another man's retard.


It doesn't make it any better, but in Pastor's cases he wasn't taking out his rivals to win the championship, he was just angry / upset.

#10 Eff One 2002

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:29

He's got a bit of the Robby Gordons about him. Wouldn't mistake it for something more dangerous than that though.


Indeed. What he did to Michael Andretti (Indycar) at Cleveland 1995 and Marcos Ambrose (NASCAR) at Montreal 2007 spring to mind.

Edited by Eff One 2002, 30 May 2012 - 03:32.


#11 Seanspeed

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:41

You must be joking. Can you find another example of a driver taking that line through there?

Well if he did do it on purpose, I'd have to say I'm impressed he perfectly judged things as its hard to purposefully hit another driver and not expect anything to happen to you as well in an open-wheeler. Around Monaco.

#12 BigCHrome

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:53

What the hell?? He just swerved into RG?? I don't know if there was a prior reason for that but motorsport is not a place for revenge. What he did there was way over the line and totally ridiculous.

#13 Eff One 2002

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:01

What the hell?? He just swerved into RG?? I don't know if there was a prior reason for that but motorsport is not a place for revenge. What he did there was way over the line and totally ridiculous.


If you're referring to Cleveland 1995, Gordon deliberately swerved into Andretti, damaging both their cars after the race was over as revenge for contact from Andretti prior during the race, yes. I remember pissing myself laughing at the time thinking what a dick RG had been but very dangerous for sure and there's no place for that sort of shit in motorsport.

#14 BigCHrome

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:06

If you're referring to Cleveland 1995, Gordon deliberately swerved into Andretti, damaging both their cars after the race was over as revenge for contact from Andretti prior during the race, yes. I remember pissing myself laughing at the time thinking what a dick RG had been but very dangerous for sure and there's no place for that sort of shit in motorsport.


I was talking about the original post, the incident between Grosjean and Maldonado in GP2. Though the point about getting revenge in motorsport being incredibly stupid still stands.

#15 Little Leaf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:39

I was talking about the original post, the incident between Grosjean and Maldonado in GP2. Though the point about getting revenge in motorsport being incredibly stupid still stands.


Look at the video again then, didn't you notice their wheels touched? There was no swerve there at all, maybe he squeezed Grosjean but then he wouldn't be the first driver to have done that

#16 Eff One 2002

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 04:41

I was talking about the original post, the incident between Grosjean and Maldonado in GP2. Though the point about getting revenge in motorsport being incredibly stupid still stands.


Ah. You were talking about THAT RG. :cool:

#17 Peat

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:32

I was talking about the original post, the incident between Grosjean and Maldonado in GP2. Though the point about getting revenge in motorsport being incredibly stupid still stands.


Yes, it is,like he did in Monaco.

That clip in the OP though, nah. That's what happens when you rub two sticky rubber tryes against one another. No swerve, the wheel would have been ripped from his hands, lucky not to break your thumbs/wrists in those incidents.

#18 bourbon

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 07:12

very dangerous for sure and there's no place for that sort of shit in motorsport.


:up:

#19 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:07

This incident is very revealing, not only for backing up my worst suspicions about Pastor, but also for highlighting just how clueless half of this forum is about racing lines. If Maldonado carried on at the trajectory he was heading without Perez being in the way, he would have smacked straight into the barrier, about 10 metres before the corner.

If anything, the most damning factor to consider is Maldonado's excuse itself. Had he said 'I don't know what I was thinking, I wasn't focused properly and completely misjudged the corner' then he might have had an ounce more credibility though I still wouldn't have believed him, but his actual excuse - that he was on cold tyres and had an 'oversteer moment' - is complete, unadulterated bollocks and an insult to anyone's intelligence. For a start, that's not an acceleration zone where he caught Perez, it's basically a coasting zone for Portier. And an oversteer twitch does not cause you to veer all the way over to the right hand side of the track in a continuous motion, if it was genuinely just oversteer (which is impossible btw but I will entertain the daft notion) then the back end would have stepped out and he would have corrected it, rather than ploughed straight into Perez.

This is basic, basic stuff that i'm appalled so many here don't seem to even appreciate.

To top it off, it doesn't take a detective to work out that he was lying through his teeth when he was asked by the Sky presenters about it, looking visibly uncomfortable and uneasy with his answers, and trying to steer the conversation away from the incident - exactly as I remembered him being after Spa 2011.

For the record, I regard Maldonado's antics as being far worse than anything Schumacher has done. For a start, Schumacher's actions in the past were borne out of a desperation to win, anyone can relate to that even if they wouldn't have done the same themselves. Maldonado's on the other hand is a case of him simply wanting to use his car as a weapon of intimidation because he doesn't like someone or what they've done. That is the biggest fundamental of how not to race.



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#20 LoudHoward

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:17

This incident is very revealing, not only for backing up my worst suspicions about Pastor, but also for highlighting just how clueless half of this forum is about racing lines. If Maldonado carried on at the trajectory he was heading without Perez being in the way, he would have smacked straight into the barrier, about 10 metres before the corner.


This.


#21 Bloggsworth

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:28

"However, his participation in the WSR was marred by a four-race ban for dangerous driving. He failed to slow down at the scene of an accident at Monaco, despite the presence of warning flags, and struck and seriously injured a marshal."

He was banned from racing at Monaco for life, but piles of money talked and his father bought off officialdom and he paid for the marshall's treatment and rehabilitation. Sunday's was not an isolated incident, the man has a red mist problem.

#22 barneyrubble

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:33

He is a very dangerous driver, and I think one day there will be regret he was not dealt with properly when they had the chance before he killed someone.

#23 Fastcake

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:44

He certainly seems to have an anger problem, perhaps he could of got away with it more when not many people were watching, but when you're driving in F1 you're not going to get away with too much. It's a shame though, because as he showed us all in Spain he's perfectly capable of driving and winning a clean race.

Frank should give him a serious talking to - or failing that a guest drive in the BTCC :p

#24 dweller23

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:48

It doesn't make it any better, but in Pastor's cases he wasn't taking out his rivals to win the championship, he was just angry / upset.

How about Portugal 1989 and Mansell taking out Senna after being black-flagged?

Or Senna kind of taking out Prost in Germany in 1991?

And don't even get me started on Schumacher, only need to remember that he pushed Frentzen off the track in Canada when HHF was rejoining the track from pits.

#25 Little Leaf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:48

He certainly seems to have an anger problem, perhaps he could of got away with it more when not many people were watching, but when you're driving in F1 you're not going to get away with too much. It's a shame though, because as he showed us all in Spain he's perfectly capable of driving and winning a clean race.

Frank should give him a serious talking to - or failing that a guest drive in the BTCC :p


Well the comments from Mark Gillan seem to suggest he isn't buying Pastor's excuse

#26 barneyrubble

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:54

How about Portugal 1989 and Mansell taking out Senna after being black-flagged?

Or Senna kind of taking out Prost in Germany in 1991?

And don't even get me started on Schumacher, only need to remember that he pushed Frentzen off the track in Canada when HHF was rejoining the track from pits.


mansell did not take him out, it was a racing incident. Senna did take prost out at suzuka 90 but that was a long build up of many things and was a once off. Maldonada has a long and dangerous history of doing dangerous and deliberate nasty things, on spur of the moment.

#27 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:58

Well the comments from Mark Gillan seem to suggest he isn't buying Pastor's excuse


What did Gillan say?

#28 Little Leaf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:20

What did Gillan say?


Link here

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100002

#29 SpeedFanatic

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:47

"However, his participation in the WSR was marred by a four-race ban for dangerous driving. He failed to slow down at the scene of an accident at Monaco, despite the presence of warning flags, and struck and seriously injured a marshal."

He was banned from racing at Monaco for life, but piles of money talked and his father bought off officialdom and he paid for the marshall's treatment and rehabilitation. Sunday's was not an isolated incident, the man has a red mist problem.

I dare you to prove any of this BS.

#30 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:55

I can't stand the hypocrisy of some.

How about the big GP2 race 2 start pile up? if Pastor is "A dangerous driver that will kill somebody someday" then what you call that GP2 crash? a crime against humanity?

Perez is known for complaining and waving his fist all around. in the race he pitted and came behind Glock and kept shaking his fist in anger expecting Timo to give him the position like that...

Conclusion: Pastor vs Checo is no different than Alonso turning into Button last year in Canada.

#31 Clatter

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:02

I can't stand the hypocrisy of some.

How about the big GP2 race 2 start pile up? if Pastor is "A dangerous driver that will kill somebody someday" then what you call that GP2 crash? a crime against humanity?

Perez is known for complaining and waving his fist all around. in the race he pitted and came behind Glock and kept shaking his fist in anger expecting Timo to give him the position like that...

Conclusion: Pastor vs Checo is no different than Alonso turning into Button last year in Canada.


Seems to me that you have completely failed to understand the circumstances. Deliberately turning into an oppenents car just to make a point is stupid and dangerous, shaking your fist at another driver causes no danger and just looks a bit silly. As to trying to compare it to racing incidents, well that really is stupid.

#32 majkel

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:04

I dare you or any of the xenophobic brigade to prove any of this BS.

WTF xenophobia has to do with anything? You can't survive the fact that you're pet driver isn't as good as you dreamed in your head?
Pastor clearly has anger issues and in such a sport, when each contact can end in tears he shouldn't be allowed to race - as a multiple offender.

#33 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:09

Seems to me that you have completely failed to understand the circumstances. Deliberately turning into an oppenents car just to make a point is stupid and dangerous, shaking your fist at another driver causes no danger and just looks a bit silly. As to trying to compare it to racing incidents, well that really is stupid.


While I'm speaking about the visible physical part (contact angle + damage) you're talking about intentions that are in a driver's head and nobody can prove if they exist or not.

A car's rear right bumped into another car's front left while taking a right corner, that's what I'm saying.

#34 Peat

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:10

Conclusion: Pastor vs Checo is no different than Alonso turning into Button last year in Canada.


Blinkered. Not suprising considering your username.

#35 smitten

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:10

I dare you or any of the xenophobic brigade to prove any of this BS.


It's widely reported as such (here for instance), and I don't see many denials or libel actions from the Maldonado camp.


#36 Peat

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:11

A car's rear right bumped into another car's front left while taking a right corner, that's what I'm saying.


Does it matter that this wasn't while taking a corner?

#37 Clatter

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:14

While I'm speaking about the visible physical part (contact angle + damage) you're talking about intentions that are in a driver's head and nobody can prove if they exist or not.

A car's rear right bumped into another car's front left while taking a right corner, that's what I'm saying.


It's one thing to bump wheels when you have 2 cars battling for the racing line, quite another to clash with another car that is miles off of the racing line and keeping out of the way. It took more effort to hit than it would to have missed.

#38 swerved

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:14

I dare you to prove any of this BS.


Any of it ?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ort/4578667.stm



http://www.f1technic...opic.php?t=1326


"By Biranit Goren Saturday, 21 May 2005 17:52


Further to a prior report published on Autosport-Atlas, we wish to clarify that RDD driver Pastor Maldonado was not banned for life from competing in Monaco.

Maldonado was penalised by the World Series by Renault race stewards and will serve a ban of nine races in total, including tomorrow's race at Monaco. No further action was taken against him."



Within that thread there is also a post purporting to come from a Marshall at Monaco, who said that he was initially banned for life, though of course the authenticity of that may or may not be able to be verified.




Pastor has a serious anger problem, I think there can be little doubt about that.

#39 Baddoer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:16

Leave Pastor alone. He did a silly mistake and half of the forum wants to eat him alive.


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#40 SpeedFanatic

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:29

Any of it ?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ort/4578667.stm



http://www.f1technic...opic.php?t=1326


"By Biranit Goren Saturday, 21 May 2005 17:52


Further to a prior report published on Autosport-Atlas, we wish to clarify that RDD driver Pastor Maldonado was not banned for life from competing in Monaco.

Maldonado was penalised by the World Series by Renault race stewards and will serve a ban of nine races in total, including tomorrow's race at Monaco. No further action was taken against him."



Within that thread there is also a post purporting to come from a Marshall at Monaco, who said that he was initially banned for life, though of course the authenticity of that may or may not be able to be verified.




Pastor has a serious anger problem, I think there can be little doubt about that.

I ask again to prove that
1. He was banned for life at Monaco
2. His "rich" father bribed the marshall


And pleasse no bild BS.

#41 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:29

Blinkered. Not suprising considering your username.


Well, A Williams hardcore fan like myself is ready to bump wheels in road cars to defend the drivers! :p

#42 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:42

Leave Pastor alone. He did a silly mistake and half of the forum wants to eat him alive.


And I don't know why all this sensitivity when it comes to... forgive me to say this... "None-european" drivers.

Everybody wanted NK out of the sport for the contact with Vettel in Sepang.

No intention to start a war here, but the official Williams forum was closed since last year because of problems between some people and Maldonado's origins.

#43 CaptnMark

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:47

Pastor made a bad mistake and was punished (perhaps lightly).

But MS has been just as bad (see Spain FP3? with Hamilton) or worse (I seem to recall several incidents of bad driving since his return,
and before - '97 being most obvious for which he was basically not punished)

#44 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:55

Posts have been removed, it's ok to bring in other examples in the discussion of Maldonado's on track agression but this thread is not about any other driver's agression or behaviour, keep it about Maldonado.

Please stop the name calling and personal attacks, if you think a post is against forum rules report it, don't respond to it.

#45 jjcale

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:57

He looks like a Bond villain and gets into car crashes just as frequently. He is the only driver currently in F1 that I dislike, mainly because he seems to have a sense of entitlement that is not justified by the level of his talent. I imagine that comes from being Chavez's golden boy. This carefully nurtured solipsism leads to the sort of incidents we have seen so far and will probably lead to others. After the Hamilton incident in Spa I consigned him to the "dangerous nutcase" drawer, and I haven't had to revise that opinion yet.


This, my friends, how you write a post.

#46 jjcale

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:08

And I don't know why all this sensitivity when it comes to... forgive me to say this... "None-european" drivers.

Everybody wanted NK out of the sport for the contact with Vettel in Sepang.

No intention to start a war here, but the official Williams forum was closed since last year because of problems between some people and Maldonado's origins.


Well I am a non-european...and I always support South American drivers... and I like my drivers to be a little crazy ( I now support LH :lol: ) ... but there is something about PM that rubs me the wrong way... I just get this sense that he is a wrong'un.

#47 jonpollak

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:19

I am told Kyle Busch Motorsports has him on their list of future prospects.

Jp

#48 sumpthy

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:24

And I don't know why all this sensitivity when it comes to... forgive me to say this... "None-european" drivers.

Everybody wanted NK out of the sport for the contact with Vettel in Sepang.

No intention to start a war here, but the official Williams forum was closed since last year because of problems between some people and Maldonado's origins.


Ayrton Senna is one of the most beloved drivers in the history of the sport despite between South American (like Maldonado) and having his own controversial moments (like Maldonado). I think the problem people have with Maldonado is that his incidents don't come from a ruthless desire to win (e.g. Senna, Schumacher) or reckless abandon (Hamilton) but due to the red mist descending.

#49 IceSkyrim

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:29

He looks like a Bond villain and gets into car crashes just as frequently. He is the only driver currently in F1 that I dislike, mainly because he seems to have a sense of entitlement that is not justified by the level of his talent. I imagine that comes from being Chavez's golden boy. This carefully nurtured solipsism leads to the sort of incidents we have seen so far and will probably lead to others. After the Hamilton incident in Spa I consigned him to the "dangerous nutcase" drawer, and I haven't had to revise that opinion yet.

That's quite interesting :well:

Is Maldonado encouraged by his backers to act like The Chaves of F1 :confused:
Was Maldo chosen by PDVSA because he had that kind of personality ?

Like don't accept to be pushed over by the most powerful teams [nations].
Immediatelly retaliate all agression suffered.
Maldo might have a political agenda too.

Maybe instead of being criticized from waisting opportunities on track, Maldo is being praized by Chaves, PDVSA and his fans.

#50 Red17

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:41

We will have to wait a few more races to see if Pastor is indeed a powder keg on wheels.
I am not a fan but he has gone through a very tough weekend. To win before Monaco on a Williams, go into Monaco with all the «he does well in Monaco, another display of talent?». To actually go fast and then waste it all in a fraction of seconds requires a lot of inner strength not to go nuts. He went from hero to zero, people were worshiping him, now they want to burn him.
I suspect that if he even tries to go the Kurt Busch route of being an anger man instead of a driver his super license will be revoked. Hopeless wreckers like deCesaris are actually considered part of the circus (and generate simpathy, or pity, some may say). Men with anger issues would be hardly welcome and would receive the same treatment Force India got in Bahrain.