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Future Mexican Grand Prix discussion


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:01

http://www.marca.com...1338288393.html

Translation:

- will next season be GP of Mexico in the Hermanos Rodriguez circuit in Mexico City
- Valencia to be dropped
- mid-June alongside Canada
- refurbishments to begin as soon as the elections finish

Great news topped off with Valencia saying au revior. :clap:

Edit - actually I thought Valencia was alternating with Barcelona, so I assume they mean Valencia dropped from it's mid-June slot, with Valencia moving to the beginning of May, hence 'freeing up' a slot for Mexico. Unless they've had to go to Bernie and say "we want out".

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#2 Jovanotti

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:08

:up: Great track!

#3 Zava

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:12

Posted Image

#4 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:13

Great news. I hope they don't use the butchered version of the Peraltada.

I'd imagine a lot of safety upgrades will have to happen if they will use the full corner ?

Edited by Ali_G, 30 May 2012 - 08:13.


#5 zztopless1

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:18

Posted Image


Is that the announced layout? If not I hope they go with the version that extends the small straight after turn five into the longer hairpin, creating a better overtaking opportunity than the current turn 6 (on paper anyway). Would also make turn 9 nice and challenging (if it is the medium/high-speed corner it appears to be) with a high entry speed. Guess it all depends on runoff's and safety (fair enough), but hopefully with the opportunity to make improvements, they can get the layout right.

Edited by zztopless1, 30 May 2012 - 08:19.


#6 DaddyCool

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:19

Looks like Monza if you draw a straight between turn 8-12. Interesting news.

#7 Zava

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:23

Is that the announced layout? If not I hope they go with the version that extends the small straight after turn five into the longer hairpin, creating a better overtaking opportunity than the current turn 6 (on paper anyway). Would also make turn 9 nice and challenging (if it is the medium/high-speed corner it appears to be) with a high entry speed. Guess it all depends on runoff's and safety (fair enough), but hopefully with the opportunity to make improvements, they can get the layout right.

I don't think they've already announced the layout, this is just an image google presented after typing "hermanos rodriguez circuit".
I hope you're right and we'll get the hairpin as t6, BUT! another picture on google:
Posted Image
it seems like the hairpin is an old layout and is already built in with grandstands? or they're built over the track as in they have a tunnel for the curve leading to T9?

#8 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:23

Is that the announced layout? If not I hope they go with the version that extends the small straight after turn five into the longer hairpin, creating a better overtaking opportunity than the current turn 6 (on paper anyway). Would also make turn 9 nice and challenging (if it is the medium/high-speed corner it appears to be) with a high entry speed. Guess it all depends on runoff's and safety (fair enough), but hopefully with the opportunity to make improvements, they can get the layout right.


The longer old section past turn 5 doesn't exist anymore. Buildings in the way.


Nice to note that the butchered variant of the peraltada also doesn't exist anymore so it's the full blooded one.

#9 Zava

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:25

The longer old section past turn 5 doesn't exist anymore. Buildings in the way.


Nice to note that the butchered variant of the peraltada also doesn't exist anymore so it's the full blooded one.

:( too bad, would've been nice.

#10 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:26

Picture of the present circuit below. No stupid Peraltada variant and sadly no old circuit past turn 5.

Posted Image

http://maps.google.c...011557,0.013797

#11 Zava

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:28

Picture of the present circuit below. No stupid Peraltada variant and sadly no old circuit past turn 5.

what was the variant to the peraltada?

#12 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:30

Unfortunately there is a very slow and clumsy chicane before the Peralta, where the entrance to the "Furo Sol" stadium section used to be. At least there was in the latter Champ Car and A1GP days.

#13 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:31

what was the variant to the peraltada?


Final corner. See in your map above where the circuit has a 90 degree bend through the final corner. This piece of tarmac seems to have been ripped up since.

#14 Diablobb81

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:32

Did the track designer have a stroke when drawing the layout between turns 6 and 13?

#15 jamiegc

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:32

Having watched a video of a lap online, there is now way they can keep the peraltada as it is. There is absolutely no runoff - just a concrete wall.

#16 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:32

what was the variant to the peraltada?


The 90 section through the stadium that Champ Car used when they first returned to the track. They used that layout from about 2002. At some point they changed to using the full curve once again, but with a chicane before it as there is pretty much zero run-off for that turn.

#17 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:33

Unfortunately there is a very slow and clumsy chicane before the Peralta, where the entrance to the "Furo Sol" stadium section used to be. At least there was in the latter Champ Car and A1GP days.


A1GP ran the full circuit last time out I think.

#18 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:35

A1GP ran the full circuit last time out I think.


They ran a hybrid circuit. They used the NASCAR turn between T4-7. Not sure about the chicane for A1GP though. Champ Car definitely used the full section at T5-6-7 and the chicane.

#19 D.M.N.

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:35

Here's two short videos from when A1 GP went there:

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-

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#20 zztopless1

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:38

Beat me to it Zava and Ali_G :)

Unless those buildings after turn 6 are small and easy to remove, I can't see them spending too much money on recreating that layout. Still, track layout looks amazing.

#21 Jovanotti

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:38

I fear they will slow down the cars before Peralta, there's no possibility to expand the run-off and indeed the walls are very close. Without that corner it's only half the fun though...

Edit: Oh boy
Posted Image

Edited by Jovanotti, 30 May 2012 - 08:55.


#22 Zava

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:39

Final corner. See in your map above where the circuit has a 90 degree bend through the final corner. This piece of tarmac seems to have been ripped up since.

thanks, I should've looked at the map before asking :blush:

#23 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:44

Senna crash

I suppose the only thing they could do is bring the wall right up to the track and install safer barriers.

#24 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:47

Isn't there a drugs war going in in Mexico right now with skinned bodies and headless corpses being thrown off bridges and Drugs Cartels operating with little impunity?

I wonder how safe it will be knowing that just up the road someone ex-cartel members are being given starring roles in snuff movies and Ciudad Juarez (which isn't exactly a million miles away from Mexico City) is now the murder capital of the world.

If there was a Libyan Grand Prix, I'd feel safer going there.

#25 Les

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:06

Is this confirmed or 'confirmed'?

If true I'm glad that Mexico are making use of their classic circuit instead of some nonesense street track round a 'marina'. It'll be interesting to see how this develops.

#26 zztopless1

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:08

I fear they will slow down the cars before Peralta, there's no possibility to expand the run-off and indeed the walls are very close. Without that corner it's not half the fun though...

Edit: Oh boy
Posted Image



I think even if they do that, the corner will still be too fast unless they can extend the run-off. It will be flat for modern f1 cars, so reaching top speeds right around where the multi-story (looks residential or hotel?) building is preventing proper run-off. By extending run-off the that side street (assuming it and the freeway on-ramp can be closed for the race) and using the latest materials in the runoff, they could probably use that corner (would still need a chicane or other slow corner proceeding it imo), but only if they can somehow build run-ff where that building is.

Edit: The building is the headquarters for the Mexican Sports Confederation.

#27 Smitla321

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:14

Looks like a very challenging circuit! I love Mexico too! Great News! :up: :up:

#28 Fastcake

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:15

Isn't there a drugs war going in in Mexico right now with skinned bodies and headless corpses being thrown off bridges and Drugs Cartels operating with little impunity?

I wonder how safe it will be knowing that just up the road someone ex-cartel members are being given starring roles in snuff movies and Ciudad Juarez (which isn't exactly a million miles away from Mexico City) is now the murder capital of the world.

If there was a Libyan Grand Prix, I'd feel safer going there.


Well we went Bahrain, I won't be surprised where we go anymore...

They've got a good track here, will be interesting if this proposal comes true. The articles mentions renovations need to take place, but they can not be much if the circuit is to host a grand prix as soon as next year. And naturally have absolutely no objections to the race taking the place of Valencia :)

I'll wait until Bernie says we're going before trusting the locals though. We're meant to be having a French and Argentinian race too, but so far they haven't been confirmed either.

#29 jamiegc

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:21

I think even if they do that, the corner will still be too fast unless they can extend the run-off. It will be flat for modern f1 cars, so reaching top speeds right around where the multi-story (looks residential or hotel?) building is preventing proper run-off. By extending run-off the that side street (assuming it and the freeway on-ramp can be closed for the race) and using the latest materials in the runoff, they could probably use that corner (would still need a chicane or other slow corner proceeding it imo), but only if they can somehow build run-ff where that building is.

Edit: The building is the headquarters for the Mexican Sports Confederation.


They will either have to knock down the concrete wall on the outside and reprofile the corner or they will have to place at least one chicane within the turn.

#30 GSiebert

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:24

Is the Peralta still a banked turn ?

#31 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:25

I think even if they do that, the corner will still be too fast unless they can extend the run-off. It will be flat for modern f1 cars, so reaching top speeds right around where the multi-story (looks residential or hotel?) building is preventing proper run-off. By extending run-off the that side street (assuming it and the freeway on-ramp can be closed for the race) and using the latest materials in the runoff, they could probably use that corner (would still need a chicane or other slow corner proceeding it imo), but only if they can somehow build run-ff where that building is.

Edit: The building is the headquarters for the Mexican Sports Confederation.


That chicane is right before the corner. I'm sure it would be fine going by how Champcars coped with the corner.

#32 SenorSjon

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:34

Isn't there a drugs war going in in Mexico right now with skinned bodies and headless corpses being thrown off bridges and Drugs Cartels operating with little impunity?

I wonder how safe it will be knowing that just up the road someone ex-cartel members are being given starring roles in snuff movies and Ciudad Juarez (which isn't exactly a million miles away from Mexico City) is now the murder capital of the world.

If there was a Libyan Grand Prix, I'd feel safer going there.


I guess they need to have renovations so certain people can 'disappear' when working on the foundations.

Indy-infield has a similar corner to the parelta, only with banking of course. Ralf Schumacher once had a heavy crash there.

#33 just me again

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:35

I don't think they've already announced the layout, this is just an image google presented after typing "hermanos rodriguez circuit".
I hope you're right and we'll get the hairpin as t6, BUT! another picture on google:
Posted Image
it seems like the hairpin is an old layout and is already built in with grandstands? or they're built over the track as in they have a tunnel for the curve leading to T9?


I think the circuit will be like this. They need the seats in the stadium.

Bjørn

#34 TheBunk

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:39

Nice to note that the butchered variant of the peraltada also doesn't exist anymore so it's the full blooded one.


:clap: Nice piece to drive it was in gpl. I thought the rest was a bit mickey mouse tbh.

#35 montoyasminion

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:52

Like other people said, that wall coming out of the peraltada and going down the front straight scares the shit out of me. I was afraid to see a nationwide car hit it, much less an f1 car.

That being said, I loved driving the 1988 version of the track on rfactor.

#36 jee

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:57

Stadium section was only temporary iirc, it was only paved right before the race and removed after the race, just like they do it for the Race of Champions.

#37 Disgrace

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:59

Good news if true. No Valencia and a bumpy non-Tilke circuit in it's place. I will eat my hat if they use the proper Peraltada though.

#38 jonpollak

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:18

Was there in '90 and saw THAT pass by Mansell on Gerhard.
I could barely make out the cars on the track it was so smoggy.

Good times though.

Hope it DOES happen in '13

Jp

#39 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:26

I thought Jersey was going to be twinned with Canada.

This is how it looked when CART raced there

Even if they remove the chicane before the last turn, it was still a boring track. And I assume they'll be making lots of 'improvements' before F1 gets there.

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#40 Baddoer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:19

Great news, track is awesome and last corner is very tricky.

#41 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:44

What, exactly, is the independent source for this news? I remember the alleged Cancun race from a years ago failing to show up.

The circuit as it stands isn't suitable for contemporary F1. A lot of the run-off areas will need to be paved and walls moved a long way back (especially as the Esses section between Turns 6 and 13 will be considerably faster than when the circuit was last used in 1992). T1 will need tightening, I would think.

There will be a chicane before Peralta, there is no way F1 cars are going to be allowed through there without much reduced speed (any more than they would be allowed to enter Curva Grande at 210mph). Had the race continued into 1993 there was talk of converting Peralta into two, tight, 90-degree right handers.

#42 zepunishment

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:48

Great to hear of the potential imminent demise of Valencia. And something raw with plenty of bumps replacing it :up:

#43 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:50

Great to hear of the potential imminent demise of Valencia. And something raw with plenty of bumps replacing it :up:


I think they'll have to commit to evening out the bumps as far as they can, though. Even Interlagos has managed that in recent years.

#44 wj_gibson

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:57

Furthermore, I can't be the only one wondering if this is going to end up as a replacement for a New Jersey GP that has gone extremely quiet of late.

#45 Risil

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:22

Scraping the barrel a bit to find enough races to go in the Americas timezone, eh.

Still. Always nice when F1 goes to a track with a little history behind it.

#46 zztopless1

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:33

Couple of ideas, probably not practical, but it sure beats doing actual paid work that I am behind in :p Have been hoping this track would make a comeback ever since reading about the possibility on F1Fanatic a few months back.

The idea is to create a clear overtaking opportunity at the end of the back straight while eliminating a bit of the useless 90 degree micky mouse stuff. The idea behind the second changed section is to slow down the entrance to Peraltada, while also creating a passing opportunity that might give cars with better high speed corner performance a chance to get close and overtake, compared to the back straight which is probably more suited to cars with good straight line speed and traction (depending on how fast turns 1-2-3 are in a modern F1 car). Circuit of the Americas seems to offer this with the hairpin after the esses, then the hairpin after the long back straight and for whatever reason, I really like the idea of it.

Posted Image

And if the baseball stadium can be used:

Posted Image

The buildings that would need to be cleared in the infield seem to be more or less glorified sheds from what I can see on Google Earth, so that part of it should be possible if they have the budget.

Even with the reduced entry speeds, Peraltada could still be too fast to be seemed safe for F1, unless they find a way to build runoff where a large building currently stands. However, there is room to tighten up the second half half of the corner by bringing it in closer to the grandstand and making use of the area where the pit entrance currently is and where indy cars made their pit stop

Thoughts?

Edited by zztopless1, 30 May 2012 - 13:03.


#47 Risil

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:38

Less bloody first-gear turns! Turn 9 through to the first corner is a great sequence as it is. Twisty then almost oval-fast. Cars don't have problems overtaking anymore, all you need is a length of straight road. But if you take out the fast bits, you ruin the racing.

Edited by Risil, 30 May 2012 - 12:41.


#48 zztopless1

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:48

Less bloody first-gear turns! Turn 9 through to the first corner is a great sequence as it is. Twisty then almost oval-fast. Cars don't have problems overtaking anymore, all you need is a length of straight road. But if you take out the fast bits, you ruin the racing.


Yeah, aside from corners following a straight (such as the hairpins in those mockups) they aren't needed from a spectator's point of view. In the above, I really only left in the one 90 degree right hander before the esses, aside from the hairpins.

However, the FIA like those slow corner sections, as it forces the teams to compromise and run more wing and shorter ratios than would be otherwise be necessary, thus reducing top speeds and improving safety etc...

#49 Youichi

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:51


I hate to disappoint you all, but I think Bernie has just leaked this story to put pressure on New Jersey to cough up some money.

#50 TheBunk

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:53

Great news, track is awesome and last corner is very tricky.


Only if its banked with lots of bumps.