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Future Mexican Grand Prix discussion


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#51 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:55

I hate to disappoint you all, but I think Bernie has just leaked this story to put pressure on New Jersey to cough up some money.


I think this pressures Texas more than Jersey.


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#52 Risil

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:57

If anyone remembers the last proper world championship race at this circuit as the last round of the 1993 WSBK series, I reckon they'll agree that it's great that the circuit's biggest safety worries might be the Peraltada's corner entry.

And not, say, a pick-up truck driving right onto the back straight in the middle of free practice.

#53 Ali_G

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:15

Couple of ideas, probably not practical, but it sure beats doing actual paid work that I am behind in :p Have been hoping this track would make a comeback ever since reading about the possibility on F1Fanatic a few months back.

The idea is to create a clear overtaking opportunity at the end of the back straight while eliminating a bit of the useless 90 degree micky mouse stuff. The idea behind the second changed section is to slow down the entrance to Peraltada, while also creating a passing opportunity that might give cars with better high speed corner performance a chance to get close and overtake, compared to the back straight which is probably more suited to cars with good straight line speed and traction (depending on how fast turns 1-2-3 are in a modern F1 car). Circuit of the Americas seems to offer this with the hairpin after the esses, then the hairpin after the long back straight and for whatever reason, I really like the idea of it.

And if the baseball stadium can be used:

The buildings that would need to be cleared in the infield seem to be more or less glorified sheds from what I can see on Google Earth, so that part of it should be possible if they have the budget.

Even with the reduced entry speeds, Peraltada could still be too fast to be seemed safe for F1, unless they find a way to build runoff where a large building currently stands. However, there is room to tighten up the second half half of the corner by bringing it in closer to the grandstand and making use of the area where the pit entrance currently is and where indy cars made their pit stop

Thoughts?


Let's just pray the FIA don't see you're drawings.

Put up oval style walls around the Peralta and get on with it. The speed there isn't anything near on an oval. And the Peralta isn't near as banked either.

#54 Fastcake

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:30

If anyone remembers the last proper world championship race at this circuit as the last round of the 1993 WSBK series, I reckon they'll agree that it's great that the circuit's biggest safety worries might be the Peraltada's corner entry.

And not, say, a pick-up truck driving right onto the back straight in the middle of free practice.


Christ how on earth did that happen! I think I remember hearing about that on a greatest cock-up thread or something, but that's just hilarious ineptitude.

Still Bernie would never let something like that happen again. If this is real and not another proposal of the month of course.

#55 zztopless1

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:42

Let's just pray the FIA don't see you're drawings.

I guess the closest comparisons in recent times in terms of curves with no run-off would be turn 13 at Indy and the entire final full throttle section in Brazil. However both of these are, for all intents and purposes, curved straights for F1 cars (and both have still seen some pretty bad shunts due to the wall bordering the track), with drivers not having to push to find the limit. I have a feeling Peraltada will be looked at differently as they will be braking from top speed to somewhere around 250 kph? much like the series of S bends and Silverstone and Suzuka or turn 8 at Istanbul, all of which require significant run off in the event that a driver pushes too hard and has a sudden loss of grip (happened many times at Istanbul, especially in practice).

Put up oval style walls around the Peralta and get on with it. The speed there isn't anything near on an oval. And the Peralta isn't near as banked either.

I'd love to see that too and I agree that with banking and state of the art safer barriers (or if there is a better product use that) they could run it the way it was meant to be. But I fear The FIA won't want a corner that fast and long without suitable runoff. I really hope I'm wrong, as it would be immense to watch modern F1 cars take something like the original banked version of that corner with a 300 kph entry speed.

#56 Corngood

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 13:56

Isn't there a drugs war going in in Mexico right now with skinned bodies and headless corpses being thrown off bridges and Drugs Cartels operating with little impunity?

I wonder how safe it will be knowing that just up the road someone ex-cartel members are being given starring roles in snuff movies and Ciudad Juarez (which isn't exactly a million miles away from Mexico City) is now the murder capital of the world.

If there was a Libyan Grand Prix, I'd feel safer going there.


It's not a million miles, but it's almost as far away as you can possibly get in Mexico...

Also, you know what's much closer to Juarez? Austin, TX.


#57 Santosdf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 14:38

I live in Mexico City and as much as I would love to have a grand prix in my home town the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez is not longer a proper track for Formula 1. There is a baseball stadium next to the Peraltada, the colums of the grandstans ara really close to the track, . In my opinion the best option would be to build a new track in a place like the Riviera Maya or Cancun, a place with lots of first class hotels, and very atractive to visitors.

#58 Baddoer

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 15:56

Let's just pray the FIA don't see you're drawings.

Put up oval style walls around the Peralta and get on with it. The speed there isn't anything near on an oval. And the Peralta isn't near as banked either.

I wonder how it will pass FIA inspection. However, they had exactly that at the Indy track and somehow it did.

#59 Myrvold

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 16:14

Actually a SAFER-barrier close to the track would help.

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#60 BRG

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 16:58

Thoughts?

You are Hermann Tilke and I claim my $5 prize.

This is going to happen - someone is flying a kite.

#61 Snic

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 17:11

I live in Mexico City and as much as I would love to have a grand prix in my home town the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez is not longer a proper track for Formula 1. There is a baseball stadium next to the Peraltada, the colums of the grandstans ara really close to the track, . In my opinion the best option would be to build a new track in a place like the Riviera Maya or Cancun, a place with lots of first class hotels, and very atractive to visitors.


I don't know how relevant it is but is the escalating 'war on drugs' in Mexico not a deterrant to bringing F1 to the country? Just like Bahrain I imagine the GP could potentially become a tool by certain people to damage the governments reputation. Recently read an article saying something like 60 000 people have been killed in the last 6 years (approx. 28 a day) due to drug-related violence , the hanging bodies over the bridge that lit up the newsfeeds a few weeks ago were pretty horrific images.

I can see why the Mexican govt. would want F1 to boost tourism and such, but do you think these troubles could cause F1 to stay away from Mexico?

Edited by Snic, 30 May 2012 - 17:13.


#62 Santosdf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 17:41

I don't know how relevant it is but is the escalating 'war on drugs' in Mexico not a deterrant to bringing F1 to the country? Just like Bahrain I imagine the GP could potentially become a tool by certain people to damage the governments reputation. Recently read an article saying something like 60 000 people have been killed in the last 6 years (approx. 28 a day) due to drug-related violence , the hanging bodies over the bridge that lit up the newsfeeds a few weeks ago were pretty horrific images.

I can see why the Mexican govt. would want F1 to boost tourism and such, but do you think these troubles could cause F1 to stay away from Mexico?

Event though the war on drugs is a mayor problem in the country it is mainly located in other cities, there is crime in mexico city like in most big cities. To bring F1 to the city, the main problem is the track is no up to f1 standards , a new track is needed and the best place would be a place that can offer the visitors quality infrastructure and Cancun and Riviera Maya is the perfect place, and the weather changes very fast, a good recipe for entertaining races.

#63 Snic

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:00

Event though the war on drugs is a mayor problem in the country it is mainly located in other cities, there is crime in mexico city like in most big cities. To bring F1 to the city, the main problem is the track is no up to f1 standards , a new track is needed and the best place would be a place that can offer the visitors quality infrastructure and Cancun and Riviera Maya is the perfect place, and the weather changes very fast, a good recipe for entertaining races.


Fair enough. How much interest is their in Mexico for F1? How much has viewership/ news coverage increased since the arrival of Perez?

#64 Santosdf

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:16

Fair enough. How much interest is their in Mexico for F1? How much has viewership/ news coverage increased since the arrival of Perez?

f1 coverage has increased, but not many wake up at 7 on sunday to watch the race, I don't know about the numbers but I guess they haven't increase much since we racing fans watch F1 with or without Perez, ofcourse we cheer for him, but I think the viewership hasn't increased that much. Again I'm not sure it is just my take , the main sport is Football for example Chicharito gets much more attention than Checo.

#65 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:24

Interesting.

1) Perez must be going to Ferrari.
2) Spain's economy might cause a problem next year, creating openings for such things.
3) Which cartel controls Mexico City? "Mexican government" is an oxymoron at this point, is Bernie liasoning with the Zetas or some such?
4) Is this a joke? I bet one could run a race pretty cheap in Afghanistan or Iraq, that might be statistically safer...






#66 Snic

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:39

Interesting.

1) Perez must be going to Ferrari.
2) Spain's economy might cause a problem next year, creating openings for such things.
3) Which cartel controls Mexico City? "Mexican government" is an oxymoron at this point, is Bernie liasoning with the Zetas or some such?
4) Is this a joke? I bet one could run a race pretty cheap in Afghanistan or Iraq, that might be statistically safer...


Bernie doesn't liaise with the Zetas, the Zetas liaise with Bernie ^^

Surprisingly the official homicide rates in Mexico aren't that high,
http://en.wikipedia....l_homicide_rate
Still way lower than Brazil..

Edited by Snic, 30 May 2012 - 18:46.


#67 dog-y

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 18:57

Good. Anything is better than Valencia and this track looks interesting!

#68 Ensign

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 21:02

mid-June alongside Canada


Mid-June in Mexico? Yikes. I doubt it.

#69 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 21:15

Here's some racing from the 1990 Grand Prix.


#70 HaydenFan

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 21:16

Mid-June in Mexico? Yikes. I doubt it.


If you're okay with melting into the aluminum, then it is fine, but for 99.9% of people on earth, not a great time for any race, let alone an F1 race.

#71 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 22:13

Mid-June in Mexico? Yikes. I doubt it.


The Mexican GP was late May in 1988/98 and late June in 1990/91. It's possible.

#72 Slowinfastout

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 22:27

The circuit as it stands isn't suitable for contemporary F1.


This.

(not to say it isn't a cool racetrack)

I think this is just good old Bernie antics, I wouldn't hold my breath for this one on the short term.

#73 scheivlak

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 22:31

If you're okay with melting into the aluminum, then it is fine, but for 99.9% of people on earth, not a great time for any race, let alone an F1 race.

It's not that hot, remember we're on high altitude. And there's also some smog keeping the sunshine at bay  ;)
Maximum temperatures in Mexico City in June are around 24-25 C.

April and May are usually the warmest months. From then on, there is a greater chance of rain http://www.climatete...exico-city.html

#74 Jovanotti

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:07

Here's some racing from the 1990 Grand Prix.

Bloody hell! And we are discussing if Peralta is too dangerous even with a first gear chicane right before...I say bring the walls up to the track, safer barriers and live with it.

#75 RedOne

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:23

Here's some racing from the 1990 Grand Prix.


Great racing :up:

#76 jcbc3

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:38

My lasting memory was Prost winning from 13th on the grid.
And I must say that even if Mansell did a great overtake, the racing doesn't reflect too well on Berger in that sequence.

#77 Wander

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:13

Yeah, that's an amazing overtake. Nigel explained it on the Flying Lap saying he wasn't too happy about the way Berger overtook him, cause there would've been a big accident if he hadn't gone out of the way so he thought "I'm not going let him have second position, I'm really not... We went into the Peraltada and he sort of boxed me on the outside and I thought 'well, whenever he brakes or lifts a little bit, I'm just going to keep it flat' and I took the corner totally flat and went through from the outside of him"

#78 Youichi

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:30

My lasting memory was Prost winning from 13th on the grid.


SSH ! You are not supposed to mention that, he was managing the tyres, and driving to a delta the whole race, something which has only been invented this year, according to the Pirelli haters.

#79 Les

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:05

SSH ! You are not supposed to mention that, he was managing the tyres, and driving to a delta the whole race, something which has only been invented this year, according to the Pirelli haters.


Sometimes I think the Autosport forum should have a 'Like' function!

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#80 jcbc3

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 10:53

Well, I'm a bit old fashioned. In my mind 300km is much too short. Get it back to 500km, no refuelling and rockhard tires. That'll sort the men from the boys.

#81 Clatter

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:12

I'm still not seeing any confirmation of this in the press. Highly doubting there is any truth to it.

#82 Red17

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:19

I'm still not seeing any confirmation of this in the press. Highly doubting there is any truth to it.

Probably they are still trying to find that safe labelled «obscure government funds» for Bernie.

One thing that strickes me is that the layout that cuts the peralta in two is on the «official» website. Perhaps the GP is part of a plan to redevelop the circuit?

#83 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:29

I'm still not seeing any confirmation of this in the press. Highly doubting there is any truth to it.


While marca.com is definitely press, it is suspicious that outside the Spanish speaking world there is no mention over it in the least. What about the credibility of Marca and JOSÉ MARÍA RUBIO ?


#84 aditya-now

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:30

At least the memories of the circuit and the Peraltada are great, for that alone this thread was worth to be started!  ;)

#85 BRK

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:20

Great track, anything to get that awful Valencia GP off the calendar.

#86 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 03:08

Why is there no Mexican Olympic team?

Cuz everybody who can run, jump or swim has already made it over the border.

:lol:

Please dont ban me.

#87 D.M.N.

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:59

Obviously the 2013 talk turned out to be false, but an interesting conversation spotted by Ted Kravitz in his Notebook today: http://www1.skysport...o/12870/8256050

Carlos Slim Jnr talking to two designers of the COTA circuit, and Hermann Tilke. Another Tilke circuit in Mexico?

#88 August

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:20

Carlos Slim Jnr talking to two designers of the COTA circuit, and Hermann Tilke. Another Tilke circuit in Mexico?


In that case I don't want a race in Mexico. Only if they race in Mexico City with Peraltada not being butchered.

#89 charly0418

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:55

Bernie already said that if there's a race in Mexico it would have to be a whole new circuit (Cancun?), so reviving that old on in Mexico City is not an option

#90 wj_gibson

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:12

In that case I don't want a race in Mexico. Only if they race in Mexico City with Peraltada not being butchered.


I think the chances of Peraltada not being butchered are very slim. Even after the 1992 race there was talk of it being converted into two 90 degree corners in future; it was only really the loss of the GP for the following year that prevented that from happening.

#91 noikeee

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:51

There's no runoff on the outside, and a stadium in the inside so no chance to reprofile the corner closer to the rest of the track. Even Indycar and A1GP a few years back ran the Peraltada with a chicane, F1's safety standards are even higher. Sadly there's no way we'll see top single-seaters race the proper Peraltada ever again, even if they'd choose to run in the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez again which they won't.