Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Helmet cameras in F1


  • Please log in to reply
43 replies to this topic

#1 John Player

John Player
  • Member

  • 455 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:06

How long until all drivers use them? I think the view is fantastic, much better than the standart static T-cam.

Also its amazing how small they are, you can barely see them attached on the side of the helmet. I know its not exactly the drivers point of view and they are not HD but still, awesome.

This version was first tested last year in GP2 with Giedo van der Garde, i think.

van der Garde, Monza 2011

Webber, Melbourne 2012

Vettel, Monaco 2012

Di Resta, Monaco start 2012


Advertisement

#2 mdaclarke

mdaclarke
  • Member

  • 110 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:16

They are amazing. I would love to watch an entire race from one.


#3 Earthling

Earthling
  • Member

  • 3,483 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:23

There's this one which has a cam in the helmet, and one on top of it too!

Double Helmet Cam

Edited by Earthling, 31 May 2012 - 20:24.


#4 wacktifosi

wacktifosi
  • Member

  • 113 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:25

I think if I watched a whole race by the helmet cam my head would be twitching left and right to check mirrors for at least a day!

#5 TheWilliamzer

TheWilliamzer
  • Member

  • 689 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:28

I think this goes way back in F1, seen it with Alonso in 2006 and Coulthard at his retirement race Brazil 2008. :)

#6 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,930 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:44

Anthony Davidson ran this in testing in 2004, I assume for Honda or Lucky Strike purposes. I've never seen footage anywhere.

www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/22653/

#7 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,270 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:46


it should improve alot but interesting. Problem is it's too wobbly and narrow, but it's closer to drivers eyes position and look very different indeed from T-cam.

a bit OT but speaking of onboard cam, I dont see the point of nose camera at all. They better put that resource to improving helmet cam imo.


#8 Andrew Hope

Andrew Hope
  • Writer of 2013's Best Opening Post

  • 7,071 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 31 May 2012 - 21:37

Don't really get the fuss to be honest. Helmet cams in open wheelers have always just been interesting novelties to me, something to watch a lap of and think 'Wow that's cool' but to actually watch a race from one would get kind of boring fast I'd think, since you can see so much more from the T-cam.

#9 Les

Les
  • Member

  • 2,071 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 31 May 2012 - 21:51

I thought I remembered footage of Mark Blundell at Spa *years ago*. Thankfully I wasn't going mad as I've found the footage here:



#10 Puhoon

Puhoon
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 31 May 2012 - 21:57

To be honest they're pretty crappy. Quality is poor, they wobble too much and usually they point too much to the sides. I prefer the t-cam.

#11 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,448 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 May 2012 - 21:58

They're a nice addition, but I prefer to see a variety of other onboards such as ones watching the suspension, the rear-facing helmet camera, the one from the engine cover. I also miss seeing the occasion rear-facing shot whilst watching battles.

Edited by Disgrace, 31 May 2012 - 22:02.


#12 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,480 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 31 May 2012 - 22:09

I thought I remembered footage of Mark Blundell at Spa *years ago*. Thankfully I wasn't going mad as I've found the footage here:


Shame that was the year of the Eau Rouge chicane. :cry:

As always with these shots they add a nice extra to the coverage but I don't think they should replace any existing camera angles. The more the better really (within reason, the TV director's job is not an easy one). As Disgrace says, there are plenty of other camera angles which can show us interesting angles or even more information about what's going on on track.

#13 y2cragie

y2cragie
  • Member

  • 271 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 01 June 2012 - 00:05


Thats the Di grassi in helmet camera thats partly shown above. the whole lap. Its impressive as its clear and in the drivers eye as he had to drive with one eye closed that lap. However impracticle for actual F1 useage lol

#14 repcobrabham

repcobrabham
  • Member

  • 9,437 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 01 June 2012 - 00:08

i'd be interested to know how that was recorded - quality is superior to anything i've seen from raceday.

To be honest they're pretty crappy. Quality is poor, they wobble too much and usually they point too much to the sides. I prefer the t-cam.


this is my feeling too. they need to adapt steady-cam tech for it to work properly.

i also like how they seem to have relocated on-car cameras to over-the-shoulder rather than from the rollover hoop - gives a more realistic sense of speed and perspective IMHO.

Edited by repcobrabham, 01 June 2012 - 00:18.


#15 MattPete

MattPete
  • Member

  • 1,464 posts
  • Joined: January 00

Posted 01 June 2012 - 00:22

Didn't Paul Tracy do this 10 years ago in CART?



#16 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,918 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:00

And the CART-cam is the best so far.

Anyway to wobbly? It is this wobbly to race, half of the point with such cams, is that you are able to actually understand how much wobbling there are. With all the other cams, it looks nice, but easy and boring ;)

#17 andrewr

andrewr
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 01:45

I much prefer the helmet cam to the T cam. It's much more immersive than a camera fixed to the car, which always reminds me of the view you get when you attach a camera to a surfboard.

Edited by andrewr, 01 June 2012 - 01:46.


#18 Kart15

Kart15
  • Member

  • 148 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 02:50

All F1 helmet cams sucks, THIS is a real helmet cam:



I never seen before a helmet cam better than CarpentierĀ“s cam..

Today we have better and smaller cameras than 10 years ago in the CART Series, but F1 still shows that ugly and shaking helmet cam as a "incredible thing"..

Edited by Kart15, 01 June 2012 - 02:52.


#19 Peat

Peat
  • Member

  • 1,369 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 07:26

I find it incredible how little these have come on. As you can see from the one's Champ Car were running almost 10 years ago, they were much better. A real driver's-eye views, nice wide angle so you can see what's actually happing and get a sense of speed.

The one's which F1 are 'so proud of' this year are at such a pathetically narrow angle and of such poor quality that it feels like they are doing 50mph. At least they have worked out some half decent positioning at Monaco.

FOM - Must. Try. Harder.

Advertisement

#20 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,678 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:26

I really like the fact these cameras show the vibration and movement that a driver experiences, it shows much more how physical being in an F1 car is.

However, I don't like watching it for too long. Also because the camera is located by the drivers ear I find the offset angle a bit offputting, it makes me want to lean for some reason. It would be great is there was some way to install the camera dead centre in the camera say an inch above the drivers eye level.

#21 ViMaMo

ViMaMo
  • Member

  • 5,143 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:46

How can someone enjoy such wobbly images and that too poor quality?

#22 Faupa

Faupa
  • Member

  • 66 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 01 June 2012 - 10:51

How long until all drivers use them? I think the view is fantastic, much better than the standart static T-cam.

Also its amazing how small they are, you can barely see them attached on the side of the helmet. I know its not exactly the drivers point of view and they are not HD but still, awesome.

This version was first tested last year in GP2 with Giedo van der Garde, i think.

van der Garde, Monza 2011

Webber, Melbourne 2012

Vettel, Monaco 2012

Di Resta, Monaco start 2012


I cannot believe the people who are saving the hat the photos are "crappy" and "too jerky" they have absolutely no idea how hostile the cockpit of an F1 /Indy car is. I raced at monaco recently in the Historics and when i watched my own video I knew why i hurt so much (particularly the crutch strap) , and remember was driving a 1973 F1 car which had about 10% of the downforce of the current cars, Avon Tyres which have been developed for amatures such as myself and give about 15% of the current grip and asbestos on steel braking which delivers less than 20% of the current F1 car braking capability.

So you poor darling, if the video is not to your liking, go find a place in Spain that may eventually ( after you have spent a lot of money) let you do laps in a 15 year old F1 car and see how "poor" the quality of your vision is

#23 Latos

Latos
  • Member

  • 67 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:26

And there is Kubica inside helmet cam from monza. http://www.youtube.c...26AF1CEDF75EE96

#24 MrMontecarlo

MrMontecarlo
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 01 June 2012 - 11:30

I don't like them at all. T cams are better.

#25 Nigol

Nigol
  • Member

  • 1,420 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 18:39

At first I thought they are cool, but actually you can see sh*t on these.

*** THIS ***
is much better. You get a feel for the car, you can see the road, you have vibrations and you know where the driver's looking at. Oh and the quality is good.
2:03 is nice, when he really floors it.

Too bad it will probably take 20 year till he have cameras like this.

Edited by Nigol, 02 June 2012 - 18:41.


#26 Octavian

Octavian
  • Member

  • 703 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 02 June 2012 - 18:43

I like them, you really get an impression of how difficult it is to check the mirrors and race at the same time!

#27 ashley313

ashley313
  • Member

  • 224 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 02 June 2012 - 18:53

I don't mind the wobble - its a more realistic impression of how the driver feels. We go pro'd up our helmets while karting a few years back and it was almost as bad, but it really wasn't much worse than the roughness we actually felt in the karts. Even in my car at the track the helmet cam is a mess.

I don't know how long I could watch helmet cam footage though, it makes me a bit car sick lol Can't wait to see certain tracks/corners with it though, like eau rouge and 130r.

#28 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 19:00

I hate all the shaking.

#29 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,332 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 02 June 2012 - 19:32

Helmet cam in theory sounds great because you get the view from the drivers' level, like in a video game.

But the real problem with it is that the driver looks left and right. If they could invent a driver's eye level camera that was fixed to look forward, that would be great.

As it is, helmet cam moves too much according to where the driver looks. I don't want the driver to control the action, I can move my own eyes around the TV screen thank you very much.

The old cameras in the late 80s/early 90s were situated at a great level and closer to the action than the Lewis-style cam of today (why has Lewis never got the T-cam? Anyone?). The major problem with it was that one side of the view was blocked out by the helmet so it was only good on left or right corners.

As the driver peers over the top of the nose, they ought to mandate a special nose-cam right at the top of the dash. This would give a drivers eye view and still face forward. A bit like Mansell's old cam except going forward instead of facing him. Could be easily done. No idea why they don't just bloody do it. Mind you, you'd miss the hands which is a great part of onboards.

edit: I'm sure they can invent a gyroscopic cam that can be worn on the helmet. Come on!

Edited by rolf123, 02 June 2012 - 19:37.


#30 ascension

ascension
  • Member

  • 42 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 03 June 2012 - 01:29

I agree about helmet cams, they give you the most accurate view of what the driver is seeing.
Posted Image

#31 goldenboy

goldenboy
  • Member

  • 3,494 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 03 June 2012 - 03:27

huge thumbs up from me, love the shaking and the real look. It's not like we would watch an entire race from it, just a lap here or there would be awesome. miles better than t cam for me. more please..

#32 andrewr

andrewr
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:00

But the real problem with it is that the driver looks left and right

But this is EXACTLY the thing I want to see. The driver normally looks through the corner to where he is going. This is exactly what's missing with the fixed cams. The fixed cams just look like a video game,

Edited by andrewr, 03 June 2012 - 04:06.


#33 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,265 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:21

I hate them.

#34 100cc

100cc
  • Member

  • 3,163 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:24

I cannot believe the people who are saying that the photos are "crappy" and "too jerky" they have absolutely no idea how hostile the cockpit of an F1 /Indy car is.

The videos are a lot more jerky than what you see in reality, for this simple reason: vestibulo-ocular reflex.

Our eyes do an incredible job stabilizing what we see when our head shakes around. A camera on a helmet doesn't.

If what you see when you drive a car is the same as what you see from your helmet camera it's likely you have a severe balance disorder or a severed brain stem. It's unlikely you'd be driving an F1 car with either.

The only thing I find cool about some of the helmet cameras is when they don't have a really wide FOV. The di Resta Monaco vid for example shows just how narrow Monaco is. The wide angle t-cam images make tracks look wide than they are.

Edited by 100cc, 03 June 2012 - 04:40.


#35 andrewr

andrewr
  • Member

  • 289 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:40

The videos are a lot more jerky than what you see in reality, for this simple reason: vestibulo-ocular reflex.

If the technology could emulate this, we would really have something.

#36 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,361 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:02

The one used recently on Sebs helmet at Monaco had quite a narrow field of view compared to the Blundell and Di Grassi clips. This narrowness accentuates the wobble of the helmet and makes it very dizzy for viewers. Wider FOV solves this a bit and also gives a greater impression of speed and what else is going on around the car.

A good solution to keep the camera near the eye and central would be to incorporate it into the helmet in the forehead area where the top edge of the visor meets the helmet. Would need alot of integration with the design of the helmet I believe to ensure safety and driver view not being impeded but seems the best place without having the camera in the visor void.

They could even install an eye tracking sensor which then controls the angle of the camera which could pan left/right to match his eye movements. This could stabilise the image too. All existing technology, just a matter of getting it into a helmet.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 03 June 2012 - 08:07.


#37 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,930 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:58

I don't think the drivers are going to like all that extra equipment.

#38 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 2,928 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:44

To be honest they're pretty crappy. Quality is poor, they wobble too much and usually they point too much to the sides. I prefer the t-cam.


They are only good in a straight line and slow corners. They are getting better though. They almost need a gyro in them so the camera angle doesn't drop under braking and move so much left to right in corners.

#39 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,486 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:55

It's mildly interesting as a one-off, but it's a real poor image and I'll much rather watch from the T cams.

Advertisement

#40 DrProzac

DrProzac
  • Member

  • 1,922 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 05 June 2012 - 18:14


Thats the Di grassi in helmet camera thats partly shown above. the whole lap. Its impressive as its clear and in the drivers eye as he had to drive with one eye closed that lap. However impracticle for actual F1 useage lol

It seems that the camera is between his eyes. Anyway definitely it's higher than his eyes - it's clear when he looks at the mirrors. Nice footage though.

Edited by DrProzac, 05 June 2012 - 18:14.


#41 ashley313

ashley313
  • Member

  • 224 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 June 2012 - 18:18

They are only good in a straight line and slow corners. They are getting better though. They almost need a gyro in them so the camera angle doesn't drop under braking and move so much left to right in corners.

Isn't that the point? To give you a chance to see what its like in the cockpit...

#42 Meanstreak

Meanstreak
  • Member

  • 443 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 06 June 2012 - 08:33

Isn't that the point? To give you a chance to see what its like in the cockpit...

But is it like that in the cockpit? http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=5752993

Edited by Meanstreak, 06 June 2012 - 08:35.


#43 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,873 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 07 June 2013 - 19:04

Bottas's helmet camera this weekend is very good.

#44 Lord Snooty

Lord Snooty
  • Member

  • 809 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 07 June 2013 - 19:46

Bottas's helmet camera this weekend is very good.


very true though that Williams looks an absolute handful to drive