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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#551 SirRacer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:07

Ok, i tried to do my best to translate the dialogue(the funny thing is that they were talking in Italian) between Massa and Alonso after the race.

- Alonso(handshake with Massa .. Alonso complains to Massa about the touch)
- Massa: i didn't do it on purpose.[non l'ho fatto apposta eh]
- Alonso: you broke my car's sidepod.[mi hai rotto tutto il deflettore]
- Massa: F*ck off.[ma vai a cagare] You win the race and you behave like this? You win the race and you say this kind of thing? you are an a*shole then.[allora sei un coglione]
- Alonso: I have fought against Heidfeld, i have fought against the other guys, and this(Alonso shows with his hands how he and Massa touched) can not be done.[questo non si può fare]
- Massa: My friend, try to learn(grow up??).[amico, prova ad imparare]
- Alonso: you, try to learn(grow up??).[prova ad imparare tu]
- Alonso: With 3 laps left we touch. [a 3 giri dalla fine ci tocchiamo]
- Massa(Ironically showing his thumb): I did it on purpose.[l'ho fatto apposta]

mmmm.. they sound like two children.

p.s: i could not hear some words near the end because of Lobato and all the noise.


Thanks for the translations! I knew more or less what the discussion was about, but that level of detail is awesome :up:

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#552 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:07

In my opinion, Alonso didn't need to do all this cinema. If you remember the race, right after, he called the cameraman to show the scars on his car.
Massa lost the race ffs, and this scene was not necessary IMHO. Just be happy and leave the poor guy. I know i would have punched him if i was Massa.


I agree completely. That being said I also think it should be said that Fernando has matured a lot since that incident. I think that's obvious.

#553 revlec

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:14

I agree completely. That being said I also think it should be said that Fernando has matured a lot since that incident. I think that's obvious.


I agree... What about his Italian? I don't know how Alonso did it, but now he speaks perfect Italian even better than Massa who has Italian Grand parents.
_
Schumacher was despised by some tifosi because he could not speak Italian during his Ferrari years, but now that he drives for Mercedes he gives his interviews in Italian. And he understands it perfectly now. Very funny.. :lol:

Edited by revlec, 05 July 2012 - 23:18.


#554 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:20

In my opinion, Alonso didn't need to do all this cinema. If you remember the race, right after, he called the cameraman to show the scars on his car.
Massa lost the race ffs, and this scene was not necessary IMHO. Just be happy and leave the poor guy. I know i would have punched him if i was Massa.


Leaving aside the personal confrontation, watching that incident again reminded me how little and how poor racing there was back then. Both guys got all hysterical over a little touch, Massa just understeered a bit into Alonso and barged his sidepod slightly. No one to blame at all, nothing to discuss. Alonso didn´t even need to respond hard with the wheel to the contact. Something you see all the time now. Those pre 2009 cars were terrible to go racing.

#555 as65p

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:20

In my opinion, Alonso didn't need to do all this cinema. If you remember the race, right after, he called the cameraman to show the scars on his car.
Massa lost the race ffs, and this scene was not necessary IMHO. Just be happy and leave the poor guy. I know i would have punched him if i was Massa.


Alonso was pi**ed about the way Massa was racing him, obviously. Maybe he should be magnanimous about it, cause he won? Maybe.

Wonder if you also think Hamilton should "leave the poor guy" in this scene

The Brazilian went up to the McLaren driver as he was about to start an interview, patted his shoulder, and said: "Good job, bro."

Hamilton replied: "Don't touch me, man. Don't touch me"


Hm?

#556 radosav

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:20

I agree... What about his Italian? I don't know how Alonso did it, but now he speaks perfect Italian even better than Massa who has Italian Grand parents.
_
Schumacher was despised by some tifosi because he could not speak Italian during his Ferrari years, but now that he drives for Mercedes he gives his interviews in Italian. And he understands it perfectly now. Very funny.. :lol:

alonso spent most of his kart career in italy so he leared the language

#557 revlec

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:29

Alonso was pi**ed about the way Massa was racing him, obviously. Maybe he should be magnanimous about it, cause he won? Maybe.

Wonder if you also think Hamilton should "leave the poor guy" in this scene

The Brazilian went up to the McLaren driver as he was about to start an interview, patted his shoulder, and said: "Good job, bro."

Hamilton replied: "Don't touch me, man. Don't touch me"


Hm?


Unfortunately i can not watch the video in you url.. but i guess it's singapore 2011 right? Can not you see the difference? Hamilton caused a puncture and Massa had every right to complain.
My point was, if you win the battle(in this case Hamilton) on the track, there is no need to try to fight outside with all the cameras in your face.
Just wait for the next drivers meeting and adress your complain about dangerous or careless behavior on the track.

Singapore was about two frustrated drivers who were not fighting for the top positions.


#558 SirRacer

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:29

I don't think Alonso did wrong to tell Massa if he felt that move was unnecessary with only 5 laps to go. They both could've ended in the gravel throwing up the whole weekend for just a place. Race hard, but race fair.

Alonso did the smart thing, what Hamilton should've done too with a driver like Massa (that doesn't seem to care if he DNF's, he will try to fight as hard as possible), try to put some distance between them and try to make himself respected by that driver.

Edited by SirRacer, 05 July 2012 - 23:31.


#559 revlec

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:30

alonso spent most of his kart career in italy so he leared the language


Alonso's Italian has improved since then.. believe me.. :)
Hamilton, Rosberg and Kubica raced with the Karts here in Italy.
Rosberg and Kubica can speak Italian. Hamilton knows a word or two.

Edited by revlec, 05 July 2012 - 23:32.


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#560 Skinnyguy

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:36

I don't think Alonso did wrong to tell Massa if he felt that move was unnecessary with only 5 laps to go. They both could've ended in the gravel throwing up the whole weekend for just a place. Race hard, but race fair.


Massa didn´t do anything. He just understeered a bit. It wasn´t any "move", he just couldn´t turn more than he did. Both did race fair. Massa defended before the corner moving once, and came back towards the racing line leaving Alonso a car´s width on the outside. Alonso accepted that line and went deep around the outside, and made it stick. Massa understeered a bit into him, but Alonso always had enough space to pull the move. Everything was perfectly OK from both. Nothing to complain about.

I´m sure that if Fernando had seen footage he wouldn´t have complained at all. He just fell Felipe tried to ram him wide, but it wasn´t the case at all.

#561 as65p

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:40

Unfortunately i can not watch the video in you url.. but i guess it's singapore 2011 right? Can not you see the difference? Hamilton caused a puncture and Massa had every right to complain.
My point was, if you win the battle(in this case Hamilton) on the track, there is no need to try to fight outside with all the cameras in your face.
Just wait for the next drivers meeting and adress your complain about dangerous or careless behavior on the track.

Singapore was about two frustrated drivers who were not fighting for the top positions.


It maybe human to forget others transgressions when winning, but it's not logical.

Your summit of Alonso/Massa was "childish", do you think frustration (as you claim for Massa/Hamilton@Singapore) is a valid excuse for that? Or that "don't touch me" is a grown-up's response, to anything?

From my POV, I don't have a problem with either scene. It happens, in (or closely after) the heat of battle. I just don't see how one can damn one of the scenes but excuse the other.

#562 PoleMan

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 23:51

Returning to the present... :)

I know some worry about the pace of Red Bull after Valencia, and while Fernando says Ferrari aren't quickest and need to improve, this comment from him has me believing that Ferrari have full confidence in themselves and the upgrades they'll be bringing. Not overly confident, but certainly full of self-belief! Forza Ferrari! Forza Alonso! :cool:

"Yeah, we are definitely quite happy with the situation now in terms of points, at least, because in terms of performance we know that there are still a few cars quicker than our car, so we are still not completely happy but the job that the team has done over the last three or four months has been amazing, recovering the maybe 1.5s or something like that that we were off the pace in Australia. So this is good news, not only for this championship or for this moment, but also for the near future of the team, because we faced some difficult times with the wind tunnel correlation etc which was not the best, also for the next projects. Now, definitely, we are in a good direction. There is still a lot to come from the team in the next couple of races and in the next couple of months, in terms of performance in the car, so hopefully they work as they are working now."

Edited by PoleMan, 05 July 2012 - 23:56.


#563 keiichi

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 00:06

alonso spent most of his kart career in italy so he leared the language


It's also much easier for a spaniard to learn italian than a german. Languages that come from latin like spanish, italian and portuguese, even though they're very different, they have their similarities.

#564 velgajski1

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:00

Returning to the present... :)

I know some worry about the pace of Red Bull after Valencia, and while Fernando says Ferrari aren't quickest and need to improve, this comment from him has me believing that Ferrari have full confidence in themselves and the upgrades they'll be bringing. Not overly confident, but certainly full of self-belief! Forza Ferrari! Forza Alonso! :cool:

"Yeah, we are definitely quite happy with the situation now in terms of points, at least, because in terms of performance we know that there are still a few cars quicker than our car, so we are still not completely happy but the job that the team has done over the last three or four months has been amazing, recovering the maybe 1.5s or something like that that we were off the pace in Australia. So this is good news, not only for this championship or for this moment, but also for the near future of the team, because we faced some difficult times with the wind tunnel correlation etc which was not the best, also for the next projects. Now, definitely, we are in a good direction. There is still a lot to come from the team in the next couple of races and in the next couple of months, in terms of performance in the car, so hopefully they work as they are working now."


At least Fernando debunked the myth of Ferrari being a backmarker car.

#565 kosmos

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:27

Q: Who do you think will be the strongest competitor here this weekend - again Fernando Alonso?

SV: I think that nobody is winning in Formula One without a reason. In Valencia Fernando together with his team did the best job, as in the end it only matters to see the chequered flag. Whatever happens during the race might be nice and pleasant, but there is not much gain in it - it’s the chequered flag that matters. When I saw him on the podium I thought: hats off. He didn’t start from the very front, right, and then to win… it was a great race that he did.



#566 Fontainebleau

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:27

At least Fernando debunked the myth of Ferrari being a backmarker car.

"...in terms of performance we know that there are still a few cars quicker than our car..."

I am not sure that anyone ever called the Ferrari a backmarker, but certainly it was not and it is not in the forefront.

#567 garoidb

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:39

At least Fernando debunked the myth of Ferrari being a backmarker car.


Nobody is saying that the Ferrari is now a poor car, or that it was ever a backmarker. That is a straw man. For the first four races, it was a midfield car and it is now about third best. The Red Bull looks very threatening.

#568 zk12

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:50

Hope for Alonso and Ferrari, that they can win this weekend again.

#569 velgajski1

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:22

Nobody is saying that the Ferrari is now a poor car, or that it was ever a backmarker. That is a straw man. For the first four races, it was a midfield car and it is now about third best. The Red Bull looks very threatening.


Well, you should look at Sebastian Vettel thread (if posts aren't deleted). There were quite a few Alonso fans claiming that without Alonso Ferrari would be a backmarker car, while Vettel is failing to win in best or 2nd best car. So, I wouldn't say 'nobody' :)

Edited by velgajski1, 06 July 2012 - 09:23.


#570 kosmos

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:30

Posted Image

Sticker on the helmet to support Maria.



#571 kosmos

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 13:22

It seems that Fernando photo is on the RB car (the charity thing) :rotfl:

Edited by kosmos, 06 July 2012 - 13:23.


#572 SirRacer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 14:38

It seems that Fernando photo is on the RB car (the charity thing) :rotfl:

Yea next to the "1" :rotfl:

#573 andresitoiniesta

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:02

It seems to me that Alonso´s 2012 season is going to be similar to Senna´s 1993 season. Not the best car, not even the second one, but some excellent and unexpected wins and the feeling that with a better car would have been unstoppable. What do you think?

#574 SirRacer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:36

It seems to me that Alonso´s 2012 season is going to be similar to Senna´s 1993 season. Not the best car, not even the second one, but some excellent and unexpected wins and the feeling that with a better car would have been unstoppable. What do you think?

Comparing him to Senna?

I expect some Hamilton/Vettel troups coming :rotfl:

P.S.: Senna's McLaren was 2nd in the constructor standings, Ferrari is 4th




#575 Fontainebleau

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:42

http://i.imgur.com/46MvP.jpg

Sticker on the helmet to support Maria.

For those of us with poor eyesight, could somebody tell us what does the sticker say? Many thanks!

#576 learningtobelost

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:43

It seems to me that Alonso´s 2012 season is going to be similar to Senna´s 1993 season. Not the best car, not even the second one, but some excellent and unexpected wins and the feeling that with a better car would have been unstoppable. What do you think?


A little, there's no doubt that Fernando is having a fantastic season, but in 1993 the Williams was the best car by a significant margin, in both quali and race trim. The situation is much more complex this year, for example there have been races where Lewis has qualified his car on pole but has been 3rd or 4th fastest driver over the course of the race, the lotus' seem to be the other way round. Ferrari seem to have had resonable race pace all year, not the fastest by any means, the difference being that Fernando has been peerless and has had a little bit of good fortune on his side as well.

#577 kosmos

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:44

For those of us with poor eyesight, could somebody tell us what does the sticker say? Many thanks!


It's only the star, nothing more.

#578 SirRacer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 15:45

For those of us with poor eyesight, could somebody tell us what does the sticker say? Many thanks!

It's just a star, symbol of maria de villota

http://www.mariadevillota.es

#579 flyer121

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:05

Comparing him to Senna?

I expect some Hamilton/Vettel troups coming :rotfl:

P.S.: Senna's McLaren was 2nd in the constructor standings, Ferrari is 4th


P.S.: Senna's teammate wasnt Massa

- one of Vettel troop


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#580 zk12

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:12

P.S.: Senna's teammate wasnt Massa

- one of Vettel troop

his teammate was andretti and then hakkinen for the last 3 races

Edited by zk12, 06 July 2012 - 16:13.


#581 tifosiMac

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:17

Comparing him to Senna?

Comparing the seasons rather than the drivers.

I was a big fan of Senna back in the day but I do hate this perception amongst modern fans that he was the Jesus Christ of F1 where nobody can ever be compared. He was a very very good driver and we are likely to have very very good drivers now and in the future. Comparing Fernando's season to that of Senna's in 1993 is in no way a discredit to Ayrton, or thats the way I read it.

Edited by tifosiMac, 06 July 2012 - 16:18.


#582 Fontainebleau

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:21

It's just a star, symbol of maria de villota

http://www.mariadevillota.es


It's only the star, nothing more.


Thank you, guys - I couldn't even make out the star!


#583 SirRacer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:25

P.S.: Senna's teammate wasnt Massa

- one of Vettel troop

P.S.: of course it wasn't Massa, it was a certain Michael Andretti, a guy who never won a race, who never did a pole position and not even a fast lap. Oh, yea, and a Mikka Hakkinen that retired in 2 out of 3 races he did :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


#584 tifosiMac

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 16:30

P.S.: of course it wasn't Massa, it was a certain Michael Andretti, a guy who never won a race, who never did a pole position and not even a fast lap. Oh, yea, and a Mikka Hakkinen that retired in 2 out of 3 races he did :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That wasn't really Senna's problem nor is it Alonso's problem that he is much better than his teammate in this day and age. Can't quite see the relevance if I'm honest. :confused:

#585 velgajski1

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:19

McLaren/Senna's main problem 1993. was reliability, I don't see how is that akin to this years Ferrari. I'd sooner compare Alonso 2012. so far with Kimi 2003. - being very consistent in 3rd or 4th best car on grid while opposition shoots themselves in the foot.

#586 tifosiMac

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:20

McLaren/Senna's main problem 1993. was reliability, I don't see how is that akin to this years Ferrari. I'd sooner compare Alonso 2012. so far with Kimi 2003. - being very consistent in 3rd or 4th best car on grid while opposition shoots themselves in the foot.

Another good comparison yes.

#587 sheepgobba

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 17:29

It seems that Fernando photo is on the RB car (the charity thing) :rotfl:


Any links or photo to it?

#588 andresitoiniesta

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 19:18

McLaren/Senna's main problem 1993. was reliability, I don't see how is that akin to this years Ferrari. I'd sooner compare Alonso 2012. so far with Kimi 2003. - being very consistent in 3rd or 4th best car on grid while opposition shoots themselves in the foot.


Yeah, maybe you´re right. But Kimi only won one race that season, while I believe Fernando is going to win a couple of races more. On the other hand, although I liked a lot his performances in Malaysia and Valencia, he would have to do a "Donington" if he wants to equal Ayrton´s 1993 season. This could be the place to do that but... it seems to me very unlikely.

#589 FenderJaguar

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 20:35

the McLaren in 1993 was so far behind the Williams. It's ridiculous to even think about comparing these seasons. I think the Ferrari has become quite stronge this year so it isn't a good comparison at all. Alonso is a great driver and all that but he is also good at public relations and keeping the expectations low doesn't hurt his reputation. And before you start - yeah - he is probably the strongest out there right now. But it's not right in any way to compare with the season of 1993.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 06 July 2012 - 20:37.


#590 as65p

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 20:37

the McLaren in 1993 was so far behind the Williams. It's ridiculous to even think about comparing these seasons. I think the Ferrari has become quite stronge this year so it isn't a good comparison at all. Alonso is a great driver and all that but he is also good at public relations and keeping the expectations low doesn't hurt his reputation does it?


:drunk:

#591 Creepy

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 20:48

That quote coming from Vettel about Alonso's race in Valencia really increased my likes for the guy. Too bad some of his fans aren't as classy and sensible.

Hope they both have a nice and clean competition throught out the season.

#592 FenderJaguar

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 21:09

:drunk:


just saying that Alonso will always say that the car is bad even if it isn't. to the media.
and at the same time that Valencia drive was one of the best I have seen from anyone.

Edited by FenderJaguar, 06 July 2012 - 21:10.


#593 as65p

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 21:39

just saying that Alonso will always say that the car is bad even if it isn't. to the media.


He's currently saying that the car has improved massively since season start, but it's till not the fastest, so therefore they have to keep improving it. Which is more or less what everyones saying, and a far cry from "the car is bad".



#594 SirRacer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 23:18

He's currently saying that the car has improved massively since season start, but it's till not the fastest, so therefore they have to keep improving it. Which is more or less what everyones saying, and a far cry from "the car is bad".

+1

He is saying the car is not fast enough, and it's clearly true. It's still not a car able to grab pole, and who wins a championship with a car not being able to get a pole?

That's why he keeps saying the car is not good enough, to push his team.

#595 FenderJaguar

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:35

you know what I mean

#596 SirRacer

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:22

MAGIC Q2!!!!!!!!!!

#597 zk12

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:34

Grande Alonso :up:

#598 kosmos

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:41

What a great save in Q2 and stunning lap to grab pole, let's not celebrate too much, tomorrow is going to be a very hard race. :up:

#599 puxanando

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 14:53

MAGIC Alonso

I am so happy!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

So Alonso is the first non-British driver to take 3 poles at Silverstone, following on from Jimmy Clark, Nigel Mansell and Damon Hill.

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#600 Shuralonso

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 15:00

Amazing Alonso and incredible the painful retransmission, it's the first time we have not heard the poleman's radio.

Edited by Shuralonso, 07 July 2012 - 15:01.