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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#701 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:06

i fear alonso will have ill luck this time....he is due a DNF considering the machine he has had in this season...:(

i hope i am wrong...:well:

why should he? a dnf is not necessary. and i hope you are wrong. ;)

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#702 SirRacer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:19

Best driver?

Gary Anderson: "Fernando Alonso. This year has confirmed his talent at being able to grab a situation that would be out of most drivers' reach and bring home a result that the car does not deserve."

Ben Edwards: "Alonso. Both of his wins in Malaysia and Valencia have depended on talent, skill, judgement and self-discipline. Brilliant."

James Allen: "No doubt about this one. It has to be Alonso. He's leading the championship in a car that has no right to be there. It's getting better, but at the start of the year no-one would have given you tuppence for his chances of leading at this stage. He's really raised his game this year."

Jake Humphrey: "No question. Alonso. The only thing I'm unsure about with Fernando is whether he's the best currently, or the best ever. He is aggressive, smart, brave and incredibly consistent. The other 23 on the grid could all learn something from him."

Jennie Gow: "I never expected to say this but again, Fernando Alonso. I thought his drive in Malaysia (where he won) was a lot to do with luck and good fortune but actually, having seen him win in Valencia he is the most skilful driver I think I have ever seen with my own eyes on a track."


Oh so it's not just Jake Humphrey and us "crazy" fans who rate him a potential 'best ever' driver :up:


#703 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:23

Oh so it's not just Jake Humphrey and us "crazy" fans who rate him a potential 'best ever' driver :up:


Honestly, who is Jennie Gow???

I see a pattern here, guys that do coverages starting in 2009/2010. claim that Alonso is best they ever saw. How surprising :)

Meanwhile, in another part of galaxy:

Frank Williams: 'If you said to me all the drivers are free, I'd say: Send in Lewis'

#704 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:26

Honestly, who is Jennie Gow???

I see a pattern here, guys that do coverages starting in 2009/2010. claim that Alonso is best they ever saw. How surprising :)

Meanwhile, in another part of galaxy:

Frank Williams: 'If you said to me all the drivers are free, I'd say: Send in Lewis'

frank said that in a time, where Lewis is about negotiating his new contract. wow that means a lot.

#705 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:29

frank said that in a time, where Lewis is about negotiating his new contract. wow that means a lot.


A tiny bit more than what Jake Humprey and Jennie Gow think, I'd say. :wave:

Alonso might be best on grid atm, but I'd wait for the end of his career before calling him best of his generation. As for best of all time, I was around when Schumacher was in his prime - sorry, Alonso is not on that level. If Vettel or Lewis win 3 races in row the same Jake Humprey and Jennie Gow will say similar things about them, its their job making things hyped.

Edited by velgajski1, 08 July 2012 - 08:32.


#706 Fontainebleau

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:31

A tiny bit more than what Jake Humprey and Jennie Gow think, I'd say. :wave:

Particularly for you, since one meets your preferences and the others don't  ;)

#707 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:32

A tiny bit more than what Jake Humprey and Jennie Gow think, I'd say. :wave:

Alonso might be best on grid atm, but I'd wait for the end of his career before calling him best of his generation. As for best of all time, I was around when Schumacher was in his prime - sorry, Alonso is not on that level.

there is no reason to discuss that. it is a question of preference. you are more impressed by michael: okay. many other are more impressed by alonso: also okay.

#708 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:33

Particularly for you, since one meets your preferences and the others don't ;)


Sure, because Jennie Gow is a living legend of F1, and Frank Williams is a come and go person that is around for 2 years and will likely follow basketball or something in 2-3 yeras.

#709 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:35

there is no reason to discuss that. it is a question of preference. you are more impressed by michael: okay. many other are more impressed by alonso: also okay.


There is no reason to discuss anything then if its all matter of personal preference :)

#710 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:37

There is no reason to discuss anything then if its all matter of personal preference :)

 ;) i meant here in this thread. we can do it in an own thread. who is better and why: ms or fa?

#711 Fontainebleau

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:39

Sure, because Jennie Gow is a living legend of F1, and Frank Williams is a come and go person that is around for 2 years and will likely follow basketball or something in 2-3 yeras.

Velgajski, I have no idea of how any of the people listed above will be remembered in the future. I know that I don't feel the need to go to the Hamilton thread every time somebody, better or worse known in F1, says something nice about him to present a few quotes from other people praising Alonso instead. Maybe I am so convinced of Alonso's worth that I don't feel it threatened when the occasional different opinion arises.

But if you feel the need to hear it from people who have spent ages in F1, I suggest that you review what people like Giancarlo Minardi or Ross Brawn have said about Alonso. Or the many drivers and ex-drivers who have spoken about him.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 08 July 2012 - 08:41.


#712 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:42

Velgajski, I have no idea of how any of the people listed above will be remembered in the future. I know that I don't feel the need to go to the Hamilton thread every time somebody, better or worse known in F1, says something nice about him to present a few quotes from other people praising Alonso instead. Maybe I am so convinced of Alonso's worth that I don't feel threatened when the occasional different opinion arises.

But if you feel the need to hear it from people who have spent ages in F1, I suggest that you review what peiople like Giancarlo Minardi or Ross Brawn have said about Alonso. Or the many drivers and ex-drivers who have spoken about him.


It is quite rare I post in this thread, and its usually to congratulate Alonso on great drive just like I did yesterday. I am a bit irked when someone belittles greats of F1 like Fangio,Clark, Senna, Prost, Schumacher - by calling Alonso best ever even before his career is over so we can fairly judge him, especially when its based on individual events no matter how brilliant they are.

While you personally don't post in SV or LH thread, you will find lots of Alonso fans posting there, especially on Vettel thread these days how Vettel sucks and that he won title only because of car. I never tried to belittle Alonso achievements in F1, I try to judge him fairly and objectively, and I said multiple times that he could well be best on grid atm, that he is my bet for WDC this season, and that possibly he may end his career as most successful driver of his generation. That being said, I will post his flaws and shortcomings everytime someone posts that he is best ever until Alonso wins a few more titles at least.

Edited by velgajski1, 08 July 2012 - 08:50.


#713 Lights

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:43

While I rate Jennie Gow's opinion above that of Frank Williams, or in that matter anyone in Formula 1, she did merely say "he is the most skilful driver I think I have ever seen with my own eyes on a track.", thereby only referring to approximately 25 drivers.

#714 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:43

It is quite rare I post in this thread, and its usually to congratulate Alonso on great drive just like I did yesterday. I am a bit irked when someone belittles greats of F1 like Fangio,Clark, Senna, Prost, Schumacher - by calling Alonso best ever even before his career is over so we can fairly judge him.

it has nothing to do with belittling others. Alonso is just the next step in that evolution of drivers.

#715 Fontainebleau

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:53

While you personally don't post in SV or LH thread, you will find lots of Alonso fans posting there, especially on Vettel thread these days how Vettel sucks and that he won title only because of car. I never tried to belittle Alonso achievements in F1, I try to judge him fairly and objectively, and I said multiple times that he could well be best on grid atm, that he is my bet for WDC this season, and that possibly he may end his career as most successful driver of his generation. That being said, I will post his flaws and shortcomings everytime someone posts that he is best ever until Alonso wins a few more titles at least.

And do you think that the way to go is to put yourself at the same level of those you seem to despise? Weird.

As it is weird to get all worked up because somebody thinks that Alonso is or isn't the best ever - I'd say that he is rather universally included in the list of the top 10 drivers ever, so it is not as if those who consider him nº 1 are doing the other 9 a major disservice. You may agree or disagree with them, but to take it as an insult is nonsense.

#716 SirRacer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:55

As for best of all time, I was around when Schumacher was in his prime - sorry, Alonso is not on that level.

I was arround too, and I wasn't that impressed to be honest.

Benneton was very close to the best car in 94 and was the best car in 95, I rate those Benneton similarly to to the Renaults Alonso drove in 05 and 06. Schumacher faced lower competition than Alonso tough (Hill, Berger, Coulthard) vs Alonso's (Schumacher, Raikkonen).

Having said that, 2010, 2011 and specially 2012, Alonso was been on a much higher level than in 05-06, and it is normal that people start to rate him very very high, even if in those years it was Vettel who got the titles.

#717 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 08:56

Does this look like 'Alonso sucks' post to you Fontainebleau?

Alonso did really well today again, it all looked like a Webber pole, but Alonso just got something extra out of that Ferrari.


Also, does saying that he is driver of season so far, possibly best on grid which I said multiple times sounds the same as 'Vettel only wins because of EBD'?

And do you think that the way to go is to put yourself at the same level of those you seem to despise? Weird.

As it is weird to get all worked up because somebody thinks that Alonso is or isn't the best ever - I'd say that he is rather universally included in the list of the top 10 drivers ever, so it is not as if those who consider him nº 1 are doing the other 9 a major disservice. You may agree or disagree with them, but to take it as an insult is nonsense.


Also, not taking this as insult, I'm just arguing that he is not the best of all time, that's what forums are for :) So, I wouldn't say that I'm going to the level of those I despise. Like I said, I try to judge Alonso objectively.

Edited by velgajski1, 08 July 2012 - 08:59.


#718 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:00

Also, not taking this as insult,

some posts above you argued that this is belitteling other drivers. which is quite the same.


I'm just arguing that he is not the best of all time, that's what forums are for :)

you are invited to do so. but we are not really arguing (at least till now), especially because this is not the right thread for it.

#719 RedOne

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:02

Also, not taking this as insult, I'm just arguing that he is not the best of all time, that's what forums are for :)


There's plenty of driver v driver threads take it there, you've said your point, people disagreed, let it go and move on.

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#720 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:05

some posts above you argued that this is belitteling other drivers. which is quite the same.



you are invited to do so. but we are not really arguing (at least till now), especially because this is not the right thread for it.


Sorry if I derailed this thread. SirRacer's posts got me into a lot of heated unnecessary discussions just like his post today so I placed him into ignore list now.

Back to the thread, I think that any other conditions except full wet will suit Alonso today, obviously Ferrari works great in damp/drying track, but I think Alonso will do great in dry too.

#721 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:15

Back to the thread, I think that any other conditions except full wet will suit Alonso today, obviously Ferrari works great in damp/drying track, but I think Alonso will do great in dry too.

I hope for an interesting race, with not to much rain. but i would like to see a rain race, because it is always much more thirlling. i think that Alonso will know how to adapt to any conditions, and if a race win is possible, he will go for it. if not, he will take what is possible.

#722 kosmos

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:38

"He is simply one of the all-time greats," Ross Brawn said at Silverstone.


http://motorsport.ne...iver,45145.html



Not bad.


#723 puxanando

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:43

Alonso looks strongest whatever the weather does

Whether it’s wet or dry, Alonso holds the strongest hand. His Ferrari was quickest in the dry conditions in final practice. Should it rain, he will likely be the leading from the front with the best visibility in a Safety Car start.


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#724 Smile17

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:47

Not bad.


Stupid Ross Brawn. He should wait for his career to end before making a judgement like that.


Alonso looks strongest whatever the weather does



WEB


In a normal race yes, but I've got the feeling this will be everything but... Normal races have been rare this year.

#725 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:49

Not bad.

I find the following quotes from that article, also important:

"He wins races he shouldn’t win, races that he’s got no right to win. And that’s the mark of a great driver," the Mercedes team boss told the Guardian.

"He’s not had a great car this year but he’s on top of the championship. He has managed to get there because of what he is, the driver he is."



#726 garoidb

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:51

Stupid Ross Brawn.


No.

#727 One

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 09:57

Boys boys,... Before the Q session, I said to myself, I will find out who the best of the best is today, if there is someone who could record a credible lap time in this cray condition. The guy who ever that is must be the best.

Te result. Fernando Alonso is on pole


I am not a Hamilton fam, nor Schumacher, but If either Hamilton or Schumacher has take n pole yesterday, I would have pronounced the exact the same thing.


#728 Lights

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:02

Boys boys,... Before the Q session, I said to myself, I will find out who the best of the best is today, if there is someone who could record a credible lap time in this cray condition. The guy who ever that is must be the best.

Te result. Fernando Alonso is on pole


I am not a Hamilton fam, nor Schumacher, but If either Hamilton or Schumacher has take n pole yesterday, I would have pronounced the exact the same thing.

Impressive argument. Poor old Mark Webber for missing out on being the best of the best by only 0.047 seconds.

#729 Smile17

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:03

No.


No? I was being sarcastic.

#730 One

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:14

Impressive argument. Poor old Mark Webber for missing out on being the best of the best by only 0.047 seconds.



YES I know, it is VERY much one liner thinking.
We can also confirm Webber is the number two.

#731 SirRacer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:16

So when we fans claim it we are 'over-reacting' and we know nothing about F1 history, when Ross and other people in the paddock say it, suddenly this is quiet :up:

#732 SCUDmissile

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:29

Alonso is ONE of the all time greats, no question IMO.
But no one can yet whether he is the all time great. I personally would love for him to win the 8WDCs that would make him most successful, at least.

He is 2 wins of beating Nigel Mansells record of wins and then he will be up there with Prost Senna.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 08 July 2012 - 10:30.


#733 Smile17

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:30

Alonso is ONE of the all time greats, no question IMO.
But no one can yet whether he is the all time great. I personally would love for him to win the 8WDCs needed to do it.


What? So Schumacher is the all-time great?

#734 SirRacer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:31

Alonso is ONE of the all time greats, no question IMO.
But no one can yet whether he is the all time great. I personally would love for him to win the 8WDCs needed to do it.

So would I, but it's not just up to him, one could say MS was in the right place at the right momen for those 5WDC that Alonso also needs

#735 andresitoiniesta

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:34

Wow! So much praise for Alonso is no good at all. I think this is a proper moment for a big, big mistake by his own. It has to come sooner or later, but I feel it very close... Let´s see what happens today.

#736 velgajski1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:36

Wow! So much praise for Alonso is no good at all. I think this is a proper moment for a big, big mistake by his own. It has to come sooner or later, but I feel it very close... Let´s see what happens today.


Well, this is one of main characteristics of true legends - you know that big mistake is due, but somehow it doesn't happen or it happens when it already doesn't mean all that much anyway.

#737 Lights

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:38

Wow! So much praise for Alonso is no good at all. I think this is a proper moment for a big, big mistake by his own. It has to come sooner or later, but I feel it very close... Let´s see what happens today.

I agree. Just feels like a massive jinx reading all these 'expert' comments.

#738 SirRacer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:43

Wow! So much praise for Alonso is no good at all. I think this is a proper moment for a big, big mistake by his own. It has to come sooner or later, but I feel it very close... Let´s see what happens today.

You can put as much pressure on Alonso as you want, he will only get better with the pressure :up:


PS: unbeliveable that people come here to say that we should not praise Alonso that much?

Edited by SirRacer, 08 July 2012 - 10:44.


#739 topical

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:44

These 'is Alonso the best ever' debates are so stupid and do him no favours at all. Comparisons across eras are pointless, all that can be said with certainty is that he is one of the top two or three, perhaps the best, driver of the current era, and with people like Hamilton and Vettel in the field that's no small achievement.

Let's hope for a good race today, though I fear it could be a bit of a lottery.

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#740 kosmos

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:47

Wow! So much praise for Alonso is no good at all. I think this is a proper moment for a big, big mistake by his own. It has to come sooner or later, but I feel it very close... Let´s see what happens today.


Keep it classy, oh wait.....

#741 SirRacer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:56

Watching the pre-race coverage, seeing Alonso and Hamilton change helmets, apparently Alonso likes to collect the helmets of his team-mates, and he didn't have one from Hamilton

#742 zk12

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:57

Watching the pre-race coverage, seeing Alonso and Hamilton change helmets, apparently Alonso likes to collect the helmets of his team-mates, and he didn't have one from Hamilton

where did you see it?
cool

#743 kosmos

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:58

Posted Image


Hamilton didn't keep Fernando's helmet, maybe he doesn't collect them or care at all, or maybe he already have it?.

#744 Kvothe

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:06

Posted Image


Hamilton didn't keep Fernando's helmet, maybe he doesn't collect them or care at all, or maybe he already have it?.


Why take the helmet, when you already have the scalp :p

but seriously nice gesture :up:

#745 PoleMan

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:29

Not bad.

Perhaps Patrick Head is the counterweight to Frank Williams. ;)

Hearing comments like that from your competitors and peers is the highest praise, but considering all the @rse-licking Fernando is receiving, his feet are firmly planted on the ground, nd he never looks past the next race. :up: (For those who might misconstrue, the @rse-licking comment was sarcasm.).

Wishing you a safe and successful race, Nando! Go get 'em!! :cool:



#746 PoleMan

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 11:57

Posted Image

I know the conventional wisdom is that these two won't be together at Ferrari in 2013, but I SO wish it will happen. I believe Fernando is the best driver for all the assets he brings to a team, but I feel Lewis has the potential to be the greatest...EVER! Alonso has matured and his driving improved so much since they were last together. For Lewis --even tho he's racing more with his head this year -- it's been kind of the opposite. But Alonso brings out the best in Lewis and vice-versa, and with the respect and appreciation they have for each other, I think a reunification would be EPIC! :clap:

Also, with F1 soon to go public, can you think of ANYTHING that would generate more fan interest than [b]ALONSO VS LEWIS: THE SEQUEL?[/b] :lol:

#747 kosmos

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:43

Sad about the win, but we go to the next race with a pole position, another race in the points (21 races in a row) and with extended lead to Vettel and Hamilton. Pretty positive weekend but I can't help to be a little sad.

#748 Lights

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:46

Alonso's pace on the soft tyres was really odd. It was obvious the harder tyre was faster over a stint, but it affected him much more than for instance Hulkenberg who copied his tyre strategy.

#749 Starlight

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:48

Sad about the win, but we go to the next race with a pole position, another race in the points (21 races in a row) and with extended lead to Vettel and Hamilton. Pretty positive weekend but I can't help to be a little sad.

It was close. I guess thats the potential of the car at the moment. The team should know their limits and I am sure they will work towards improving these weaknesses. Nevertheless some good points and good outcomes from today. Chin up, I am sure we will have more wins soon!!!

Edited by Starlight, 08 July 2012 - 13:48.


#750 Jejking

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:48

Why take the helmet, when you already have the scalp :p

but seriously nice gesture :up:

HA, exactly the same what I thought :D

But it's a nice collection for sure.