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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#901 Xsaravts

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 21:51

But... does anyone follow cycling here? 43 km/h is a poor average for a 20 km TT, just like 24 km/h is a poor average for a normal training!!

To give some perspective, I´ve done 40 km TT on that sort of average with normal road bike and clothes (no aero helmet, no one piece lycra clothes, no lycra boots, no high profile carbon wheels, no TT frame), and I am well under average in TT in amateur field, as I´m a 60 kg bones bag hopeless on flat roads.


In order to make things cristal. Do you know who Alberto Contador is?. I guess so.

One day, Alonso was thinking about to create a cylcing professional team with Contador as leader, because Alonso admires Contador and they are friends.

Alonso loves cycling (he's said many times that if he were not a F1 driver he had been riding a bike), and one day he went out to traing with Contador's team. They though that Alonso was going to fall down, but surprisingly enough they day a normal training day and Alonso finished as cool as a cucumber....

Edited by Xsaravts, 11 July 2012 - 21:55.


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#902 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 21:52

Totally true :up:



Let´s put this back into context, before this goes out of the window. This debate started because I said "Alonso´s lucky guy to drive as well, because he isn´t good enough to race with amateurs in Spain". I didn´t ever say Alonso wasn´t fit, his numbers look good enough for an average cyclostourist -don´t know the word in English, in Spain that means someone who rides but doesn´t compete-. I said he´s certainly not good enough to race with amateurs, and it looks like that.

Just to clarify, amateurs -Elite/sub23 is we call it here- is a highly competitive category. In the last Spanish national championships, there were 2 "amateurs" that did beat the 3rd best pro time, in exactly the same circuit, the same afternoon. Someone that doesn´t know too much about cycling might think saying "someone not being good enough to ride with amateurs" might be an insult or something, but it´s not the case. Amateurs aren´t a bunch of hopeless fat guys or untalented guys, amateurs is where the stars of the future -and lots former pros without a contract- race. I know the category very well, and all I´ve read about Fernando suggests he wouldn´t be able to end these races.


Sounds right :up:


#903 Watkins74

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 22:34

You know Fernando is kicking ass when people are criticising his bike riding ability. What next....his card tricks aren't that good?

#904 SirRacer

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 22:40

You know Fernando is kicking ass when people are criticising his bike riding ability. What next....his card tricks aren't that good?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

:up:

#905 radosav

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 23:04

A blind rabbit and a blind turtle collide in the forest.
In order to recognize, they agree to touch each other.
The turtle says:
- Your hair is very soft.
- Your ears are long.
- You have pompom tail.
- I know! You are a rabbit!
The rabbit nods and says:
- Your neck is wrinkled.
- You don't have ears.
- You have helmet.
- I know! You are Niki Lauda!

:up:

#906 HPT

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 00:10

Nonsense, why don't you check his result in the second half of 2007 when the relationship with McLaren was already broken?.


I think he made plenty of uncharacteristic mistakes throughout the year due to the pressure, most notably in Canada. Don't get me wrong, he does seem to be able to handle pressure more than most drivers, but that doesn't mean he is immune to it.

And maybe I'm reading it wrong, but you're getting a tad too defensive on the subject. Relax man, I am probably as big an Alonso fan as you are. I also see his flaws however much I appreciate his genius behind the wheel.

And let's be honest, he was very lucky that McLaren messed up Hamilton's race in Shanghai by leaving him out on worn out tires. Otherwise Alonso wouldn't have outscored him in the 2nd half of the year. That does not make Hamilton a better driver. In fact, I think Alonso is a much better driver now than Hamilton. And Alonso did extremely well under the circumstances (with the team against him and all).

#907 Raelene

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:01

i think it is niki lauda


i think some people didn't even watch the video...where they actually introduced him as John Surtees....



#908 Creepy

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:38

You know Fernando is kicking ass when people are criticising his bike riding ability. What next....his card tricks aren't that good?

:rotfl: :up:

#909 RedOne

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:14

You know Fernando is kicking ass when people are criticising his bike riding ability. What next....his card tricks aren't that good?


:lol:

#910 bmardini

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:16

Thanks! Nice article and very nice pictures too!!! :up:


How is this a "nice" article? Yet again another journo is trying to fait accompli the notion that Fernando is a primadonna, will throw hissy fits at a faster driver, will play dirty, blah blah blah blah.

To my knowledge, drivers who have said "regrettable" things in public (i.e. human)

- Lewis
- Jensen
- Webber
- Vettel
- Alonso

So whats the big deal? Has anyone on this forum actually stepped out of a race car after a brutal session? Yeah, you sometimes say things that you don't understand how they could come out of your mouth.

Its now 2012. Fernando is 31. My age. when I was 26 (2007) I said and did stuff that I wouldn't do now. I don't even want to talk about what I did and said at 24.

Seriously, candidates for high office see less scrutiny than some of these guys...

#911 HPT

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:19

How is this a "nice" article? Yet again another journo is trying to fait accompli the notion that Fernando is a primadonna, will throw hissy fits at a faster driver, will play dirty, blah blah blah blah.

To my knowledge, drivers who have said "regrettable" things in public (i.e. human)

- Lewis
- Jensen
- Webber
- Vettel
- Alonso

So whats the big deal? Has anyone on this forum actually stepped out of a race car after a brutal session? Yeah, you sometimes say things that you don't understand how they could come out of your mouth.

Its now 2012. Fernando is 31. My age. when I was 26 (2007) I said and did stuff that I wouldn't do now. I don't even want to talk about what I did and said at 24.

Seriously, candidates for high office see less scrutiny than some of these guys...


He said one negative thing (the hissy fit part) but plenty of other good stuff (Alonso is undoubtedly F1's top dog and the coolest cat in the paddock, etc) and you chose to focus solely on the negative?


#912 Architrion

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:26

How is this a "nice" article? Yet again another journo is trying to fait accompli the notion that Fernando is a primadonna, will throw hissy fits at a faster driver, will play dirty, blah blah blah blah.

To my knowledge, drivers who have said "regrettable" things in public (i.e. human)

- Lewis
- Jensen
- Webber
- Vettel
- Alonso

So whats the big deal? Has anyone on this forum actually stepped out of a race car after a brutal session? Yeah, you sometimes say things that you don't understand how they could come out of your mouth.

Its now 2012. Fernando is 31. My age. when I was 26 (2007) I said and did stuff that I wouldn't do now. I don't even want to talk about what I did and said at 24.

Seriously, candidates for high office see less scrutiny than some of these guys...



Darren Heath is not a journo, mate. He is a top photographer, a fine artist that has brought F1 photography to another level playing with light and textures and color, far away from the F1 photo type. And that article is not a journo news. Is his fair and square opinion you might share or not, but is his and is well deserved some respect for sharing it.

Edited by Architrion, 12 July 2012 - 07:27.


#913 Starlight

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:00

How is this a "nice" article? Yet again another journo is trying to fait accompli the notion that Fernando is a primadonna, will throw hissy fits at a faster driver, will play dirty, blah blah blah blah.

To my knowledge, drivers who have said "regrettable" things in public (i.e. human)

- Lewis
- Jensen
- Webber
- Vettel
- Alonso

So whats the big deal? Has anyone on this forum actually stepped out of a race car after a brutal session? Yeah, you sometimes say things that you don't understand how they could come out of your mouth.

Its now 2012. Fernando is 31. My age. when I was 26 (2007) I said and did stuff that I wouldn't do now. I don't even want to talk about what I did and said at 24.

Seriously, candidates for high office see less scrutiny than some of these guys...



IMO, the blog was trying to show how fierce a competitor Fernando is. Thats what I think is implied in the article, and is the reason that he has obtained success and is considered as one of the top drivers. Whats not good about that? Besides that is one negative comment (mildly put as such) in a field of positive remarks.

#914 bmardini

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:16

I have no issue with someone voicing their opinion - that is their right.

The article sounds nice on the surface, but throws in the premise that Fernando throws his toys out when pushed.

I'm not criticizing his photography. I think its excellent.

I am criticizing the "compliment". I'm not focusing on the negative and ignoring the positive. I think the whole article is negative. The whole premise is that Webber didn't go to Ferrari because Fernando is in total control and will make his life a living hell if he showed excessive speed. Sure, there are sprinkles of flattery and praise, but you can read between the lines.



#915 Smile17

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:21

I have no issue with someone voicing their opinion - that is their right.

The article sounds nice on the surface, but throws in the premise that Fernando throws his toys out when pushed.

I'm not criticizing his photography. I think its excellent.

I am criticizing the "compliment". I'm not focusing on the negative and ignoring the positive. I think the whole article is negative. The whole premise is that Webber didn't go to Ferrari because Fernando is in total control and will make his life a living hell if he showed excessive speed. Sure, there are sprinkles of flattery and praise, but you can read between the lines.


I agree, but I still think it was a brilliant read. Especially this part:

Mind games, political astuteness par excellence, speaking Italian in debriefs (something Webber can’t do) and hissy-fits of extraordinary magnitude are all weapons in the Spaniard’s arsenal, effectively employed to brow-beat his hapless team-mate into submission


I couldn't help but laugh. He hasn't really managed to put Alonso in such bad light, even though reading between the lines could suggest that. He somehow makes this attitude look 'great'.

Edited by Smile17, 12 July 2012 - 08:25.


#916 Gareth

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:37

The article sounds nice on the surface, but throws in the premise that Fernando throws his toys out when pushed.

I think it throws in the premise that he's incredibly competitive, and uses everything he can to his advantage. "Throwing the toys out" suggests something emotional, uncalculated. The article suggests he'd be entirely in control of what he was doing.

He's a guy at the top of F1. There's no way anyone gets there by being anything other than incredibly competitive. The history of F1 drivers getting "one up" on their team mates, in ways other than just on the track, is a long one - my all time F1 hero, Senna, certainly had more than a little of that in his history.

That side of the article is nothing unusual and, IMO, nothing critical of Alonso. It's normal F1 stuff. If anything, it's a compliment to Alonso that he has built the Ferrari team around himself (predominantly through performance on track) to the extent that that he could be so effective at this stuff.

The side of the article that descibes him and his performance in such glowing terms (top dog etc) is unusual in F1. There's only 1 top dog out of 26 drivers at any one time.

#917 zk12

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:16

I think he made plenty of uncharacteristic mistakes throughout the year due to the pressure, most notably in Canada. Don't get me wrong, he does seem to be able to handle pressure more than most drivers, but that doesn't mean he is immune to it.

And maybe I'm reading it wrong, but you're getting a tad too defensive on the subject. Relax man, I am probably as big an Alonso fan as you are. I also see his flaws however much I appreciate his genius behind the wheel.

And let's be honest, he was very lucky that McLaren messed up Hamilton's race in Shanghai by leaving him out on worn out tires. Otherwise Alonso wouldn't have outscored him in the 2nd half of the year. That does not make Hamilton a better driver. In fact, I think Alonso is a much better driver now than Hamilton. And Alonso did extremely well under the circumstances (with the team against him and all).

somehow i understand what you mean. but man you must be the person with the biggest ability to contradict oneself in one post in this forum. maybe you should just sort your thoughts and then write and maybe then everything would make more sense.;)

Edited by zk12, 12 July 2012 - 12:16.


#918 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:49

I think he made plenty of uncharacteristic mistakes throughout the year due to the pressure, most notably in Canada. Don't get me wrong, he does seem to be able to handle pressure more than most drivers, but that doesn't mean he is immune to it.

And maybe I'm reading it wrong, but you're getting a tad too defensive on the subject. Relax man, I am probably as big an Alonso fan as you are. I also see his flaws however much I appreciate his genius behind the wheel.

And let's be honest, he was very lucky that McLaren messed up Hamilton's race in Shanghai by leaving him out on worn out tires. Otherwise Alonso wouldn't have outscored him in the 2nd half of the year. That does not make Hamilton a better driver. In fact, I think Alonso is a much better driver now than Hamilton. And Alonso did extremely well under the circumstances (with the team against him and all).



Alonso lost his famous consistency in 2007, his "peaks" were as high as ever with some fantastic drives but he had weekends when he just wasn't on the ball at all. That's very unlike Alonso and I think it's fair to conclude that whenever Lewis showed pace to match or beat him it rattled him. Personally, I think if Alonso 2012 was put up against Hamilton 2012, Alonso would easily come out on top. 2007-2009 regulations played to all Lewis Hamilton's strengths, 2010 regs were somewhere inbetween but the 2011 and 2012 tyres have, in my opinion, neutralised the force that Lewis Hamilton once was in the races.

#919 SirRacer

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:51

Alonso lost his famous consistency in 2007, his "peaks" were as high as ever with some fantastic drives but he had weekends when he just wasn't on the ball at all. That's very unlike Alonso and I think it's fair to conclude that whenever Lewis showed pace to match or beat him it rattled him. Personally, I think if Alonso 2012 was put up against Hamilton 2012, Alonso would easily come out on top. 2007-2009 regulations played to all Lewis Hamilton's strengths, 2010 regs were somewhere inbetween but the 2011 and 2012 tyres have, in my opinion, neutralised the force that Lewis Hamilton once was in the races.


We don't know how much of that "pressure" came from Hamilton being strong and how much came from knowing the team was screwing him, like "McLaren, you wan't to screw me and make Lewis win? So I'm gonna screw you with all the possible ways I can"

I loved seeing Alonso sabotage McLaren from the inside, he made them lose the WCC and the WDC for their beloved boy. I imagine him walking out of McLaren with a smile.

If anything, 2007 shows what a competitive and stubborn animal he is.

Edited by SirRacer, 12 July 2012 - 12:55.


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#920 topical

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 13:03

I'm rather amazed at the above attitude. I really don't think Alonso would have left McLaren with a smile in 2007, if he did then his character is far worse than I'd like to think. I expect he was very bitter but that with the benefit of hindsight both he and McLaren realised that everyone in the team, both drivers and management, screwed up that year and made a right mess of what should have been a great partnership.

I agree that 2007 played very much to Lewis' strengths and against Alonso's and that the results are no more proof that Lewis is better than last year's results showed Jenson is better than Lewis (which he clearly isn't) or for that matter Vettel much better than Webber (see how that has turned around this year). In fact what is extraordinary is that while some drivers may be better at "driving around problems" than others, it is clear that for a driver to perform at his maximum a whole host of factors - car, tyres, psychology, etc - must come together. It's a very delicate balance that, as we have seen, can shift from year to year.

#921 SirRacer

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 13:12

I'm rather amazed at the above attitude. I really don't think Alonso would have left McLaren with a smile in 2007, if he did then his character is far worse than I'd like to think. I expect he was very bitter but that with the benefit of hindsight both he and McLaren realised that everyone in the team, both drivers and management, screwed up that year and made a right mess of what should have been a great partnership.

I agree that 2007 played very much to Lewis' strengths and against Alonso's and that the results are no more proof that Lewis is better than last year's results showed Jenson is better than Lewis (which he clearly isn't) or for that matter Vettel much better than Webber (see how that has turned around this year). In fact what is extraordinary is that while some drivers may be better at "driving around problems" than others, it is clear that for a driver to perform at his maximum a whole host of factors - car, tyres, psychology, etc - must come together. It's a very delicate balance that, as we have seen, can shift from year to year.

So Alonso should not be pleased that McLaren didn't get what they wanted by screwing Alonso?

I don't know what you english people consider a "good attitude", but for me, it'd be perfectly fine if he walked out of McLaren with a smile, I guess if you would see that in a movie, you'd like the guy. But this is F1, everyone has to be PR machines, be nice and all.

Edited by SirRacer, 12 July 2012 - 13:13.


#922 bmardini

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 13:43

So Alonso should not be pleased that McLaren didn't get what they wanted by screwing Alonso?

I don't know what you english people consider a "good attitude", but for me, it'd be perfectly fine if he walked out of McLaren with a smile, I guess if you would see that in a movie, you'd like the guy. But this is F1, everyone has to be PR machines, be nice and all.


I think what he means is that competitive behavior - from Lewis, Alonso, RD, etc - ended up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Had they all taken a small step back maybe things would have turned out differently. In all honesty I don't blame the drivers - its their job to get to the top. Grey haired TP should have been wiser.

#923 topical

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 14:06

So Alonso should not be pleased that McLaren didn't get what they wanted by screwing Alonso?

I don't know what you english people consider a "good attitude", but for me, it'd be perfectly fine if he walked out of McLaren with a smile, I guess if you would see that in a movie, you'd like the guy. But this is F1, everyone has to be PR machines, be nice and all.


I don't buy the "McLaren screwed Alonso" conspiracy theory stuff. I understand that psychologically he didn't feel well in the team and Ron Dennis and others should have taken care of that much earlier. But the idea that they would pay huge sums to bring in a 2 times WDC and deliberately sabotage him is clearly nonsense.

If you read my other posts you will see that I am a big Alonso fan but I can't stand it when fans of a driver (like some of the Lewis fans in the McLaren thread) always blame the team when their favourite driver starts performing below his potential. Alonso had some great races in 2007 but also some poor weekends. He was rattled by Lewis' pace and the psychological favouristism shown to Lewis in the team and that led to erratic performances. I think the supposed blackmail thing at Hungary (if it's all true) was probably the low point of Alonso's career. I expect the Alonso of today would handle it much better but he was young and not not expecting it and he did not deal with it well. That's why I say everyone in McLaren that year carries the blame for it all going wrong - RD for not managing the situation better from the word go, Hamilton for stoking the flames with his comments to the press, and Alonso for overreacting...

Edited by topical, 12 July 2012 - 14:11.


#924 jstrains

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 14:12

I am sure that Fernando wanted to wall away with the title in 2007 and as this did not work out, Kimi was a more pleasant option than Lewiz

#925 fieraku

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 14:44

Just wanted to say Alonso has been SUPREME this season,have enjoyed his driving massively. F1 is better with FA at the front.

#926 kosmos

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 14:53

We don't know what happen in 2007, most of the stories are told from the biased Brithish Press, the biased Spanish Press told another different stories like tyre pressure "problems" and the team treating Alonso family like shit to the point that they have to "live" in the Renault motorhome among many other things. If people is going to build their opinion about Alonso in 2007, I think is unfair to buy all the Brithish "propaganda" and discard all the Spanish "propaganda", the only fact here is that very little people know the truth or how Alonso truly felt that year, some British journalists got the McLaren side of the story and printed it as fact, the same can say about the Spanish side but the Spanish press has zero power in F1, so their articles are discarded as fanboyism.

By the way, this is a dead horse and there is a topic for it.

Edited by kosmos, 12 July 2012 - 14:55.


#927 topical

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 15:02

We don't know what happen in 2007, most of the stories are told from the biased Brithish Press, the biased Spanish Press told another different stories like tyre pressure "problems" and the team treating Alonso family like shit to the point that they have to "live" in the Renault motorhome among many other things. If people is going to build their opinion about Alonso in 2007, I think is unfair to buy all the Brithish "propaganda" and discard all the Spanish "propaganda", the only fact here is that very little people know the truth or how Alonso truly felt that year, some British journalists got the McLaren side of the story and printed it as fact, the same can say about the Spanish side but the Spanish press has zero power in F1, so their articles are discarded as fanboyism.

By the way, this is a dead horse and there is a topic for it.



Yes, as ever there are three sides to the story - two extremes and the truth, which is usually somewhere in the middle. I agree, as 2012 is going so well better concentrate on the present and the positives. Let's hope for one more win before the summer break!

#928 ViMaMo

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 02:57

We were told a story about Fernando Alonso: after 20 seconds watching a car on the rig he was able to identify the circuit (Spa) and that it was him driving! He’s not a World Champion for nothing…


Source

:clap:

#929 HPT

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 03:20

somehow i understand what you mean. but man you must be the person with the biggest ability to contradict oneself in one post in this forum. maybe you should just sort your thoughts and then write and maybe then everything would make more sense.;)


You obviously haven't met cillirium :D

Would you kindly point out where I'm contradicting myself?

I said he's affected by pressure, albeit he's able to handle it better than most drivers. No contradiction there.

And I said even though Hamilton would have beaten him if it wasn't for Shanghai in 2007, that does not make him a better driver, because points alone do not count for everything. I won't dwell further into what transpired in 2007 but I am sure you know what I mean. And anyway I consider Alonso the better driver NOW.

Seriously, where is the contradiction? Sorry if English being my third language might have caused a bit of comprehension problem for you, but I honestly think my post makes perfect sense ;)

Edited by HPT, 13 July 2012 - 03:31.


#930 zk12

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:54

I don't buy the "McLaren screwed Alonso" conspiracy theory stuff. I understand that psychologically he didn't feel well in the team and Ron Dennis and others should have taken care of that much earlier. But the idea that they would pay huge sums to bring in a 2 times WDC and deliberately sabotage him is clearly nonsense.

Alonso brought more than enough sponsoring money (some of them are still paying Mclaren) to Mclaren, below the line Alonso didnt cost Mclaren anything, he brought money to them.
And if such a guy can be beaten by a new phenomenon (as they tried to cosntrue Hamilton), below the line, this new guy can create even more money. Whether you buy it or not, you cant use the money argument to argue, why there was no sense in screwing alonso.

#931 zk12

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 07:58

You obviously haven't met cillirium :D

Would you kindly point out where I'm contradicting myself?

I said he's affected by pressure, albeit he's able to handle it better than most drivers. No contradiction there.

And I said even though Hamilton would have beaten him if it wasn't for Shanghai in 2007, that does not make him a better driver, because points alone do not count for everything. I won't dwell further into what transpired in 2007 but I am sure you know what I mean. And anyway I consider Alonso the better driver NOW.

Seriously, where is the contradiction? Sorry if English being my third language might have caused a bit of comprehension problem for you, but I honestly think my post makes perfect sense ;)

the contradiction is, how you swim between the ports of he was unfairly treated and he made to many mistakes (not looking for any connection).
but as already said, i know what you wanted to say.

Edited by zk12, 13 July 2012 - 08:13.


#932 kosmos

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:00

Fernando on the new F1 game. Love the style :love:

Posted Image

Trailer:

Edited by kosmos, 13 July 2012 - 12:03.


#933 cardin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:34

We don't know what happen in 2007, most of the stories are told from the biased Brithish Press, the biased Spanish Press told another different stories like tyre pressure "problems" and the team treating Alonso family like shit to the point that they have to "live" in the Renault motorhome among many other things. If people is going to build their opinion about Alonso in 2007, I think is unfair to buy all the Brithish "propaganda" and discard all the Spanish "propaganda", the only fact here is that very little people know the truth or how Alonso truly felt that year, some British journalists got the McLaren side of the story and printed it as fact, the same can say about the Spanish side but the Spanish press has zero power in F1, so their articles are discarded as fanboyism.

By the way, this is a dead horse and there is a topic for it.


Is it the same brithish press that you guys don't stop quoting when they praise Alonso(and there's been a lot of praise, and quotes, from them lately) ? Ridiculous.

#934 zk12

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:39

Is it the same brithish press that you guys don't stop quoting when they praise Alonso(and there's been a lot of praise, and quotes, from them lately) ? Ridiculous.

well, they seem to have changed. and that is good. who knows what would have happened if the power of social medias would have been that strong back in 2007.

#935 cardin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:46

You've got a point here. And yes, Fernando has matured a lot meanwhile. In that respect of course it would be interesting to see him paired with Vettel or Hamilton in 2014, but why risk the fireworks? Why risk the team's peace? And also, for Hamilton or Vettel: why enter the lion's den?


You can only verify that when he gets a fast team mate or if Massa starts to perform really well.

#936 cardin

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:49

well, they seem to have changed. and that is good. who knows what would have happened if the power of social medias would have been that strong back in 2007.


I'm not sure if they changed or it's a case of double standards( actually I know well what the case is).

#937 zk12

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 13:52

I'm not sure if they changed or it's a case of double standards( actually I know well what the case is).

ít is not hard to guess, what you think (or like to be the truth). the approach of the british media towards alonso has changed to positive and they are finally also recognizing his greatness. maybe you should do the same too?

Edited by zk12, 13 July 2012 - 13:58.


#938 HPT

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 14:55

the contradiction is, how you swim between the ports of he was unfairly treated and he made to many mistakes (not looking for any connection).
but as already said, i know what you wanted to say.


He was unfairly treated (actually he was also partly guilty for creating that environment) and him making too many mistakes aren't mutually exclusive so I still don't see where the contradiction is.

Fair enough you got what I was trying to say, yet you said my post was the most contradictory you've seen in this board (or something to that effect - I can't be bothered to go back and search for that post) so of course I'm going to ask you to point out where I contradicted myself. You couldn't, so case closed?

Edited by HPT, 13 July 2012 - 14:56.


#939 topical

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 15:11

You can only verify that when he gets a fast team mate or if Massa starts to perform really well.


If Massa still had Kimi as a teammate I suspect he would still be performing "well". It's just Alonso who has made him look poor, as Schumacher did before him.

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#940 zk12

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 15:35

He was unfairly treated (actually he was also partly guilty for creating that environment) and him making too many mistakes aren't mutually exclusive so I still don't see where the contradiction is.

Fair enough you got what I was trying to say, yet you said my post was the most contradictory you've seen in this board (or something to that effect - I can't be bothered to go back and search for that post) so of course I'm going to ask you to point out where I contradicted myself. You couldn't, so case closed?

i dont think that this matter is that important. but as already hinted, you said that alonso was "lucky" not being outscored by lewis and than you said he did well although being mistreated. this is a contradicition. but not really important, no need to get defensive. ;)

#941 HPT

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 15:57

i dont think that this matter is that important. but as already hinted, you said that alonso was "lucky" not being outscored by lewis and than you said he did well although being mistreated. this is a contradicition. but not really important, no need to get defensive.;)


Yes he was lucky that he wasn't outscored by Hamilton and he really did well although he was 'mistreated'. Again, those two aren't mutually exclusive. Being outscored by Hamilton does not mean he did badly. Here's an example: Alonso did well at Silverstone even though Webber beat him. No contradiction. Yeah I know it's no big deal. You keep insisting that I was contradicting myself so I keep having to tell you that I'm not, that's all ;)

#942 Lone

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 20:34

ít is not hard to guess, what you think (or like to be the truth). the approach of the british media towards alonso has changed to positive and they are finally also recognizing his greatness. maybe you should do the same too?

The British press is, well the British press. Have you ever considered that when making Alonso look good they actually are making Hamilton look even better? Alonsos unfortune and fortune was beeing "beaten" by Hamilton because that was a blessing in disguise. There are a lot of British motor sport journalist in the business with a lot of let's say credibilty. Now, tell me how many of them rate Hamilton and Alonso the best? Personally I think Alonso is in a different league than Hamilton, perhaps not faster when in a good car but overall without contention. Is Alonso the best? Certainly one of the best but there are so many factors to be considered that it's impossible to say but he certainly is dooing a god job this year to make it look so!


#943 4MEN

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 22:58

We don't know what happen in 2007, most of the stories are told from the biased Brithish Press, the biased Spanish Press told another different stories like tyre pressure "problems" and the team treating Alonso family like shit to the point that they have to "live" in the Renault motorhome among many other things. If people is going to build their opinion about Alonso in 2007, I think is unfair to buy all the Brithish "propaganda" and discard all the Spanish "propaganda", the only fact here is that very little people know the truth or how Alonso truly felt that year, some British journalists got the McLaren side of the story and printed it as fact, the same can say about the Spanish side but the Spanish press has zero power in F1, so their articles are discarded as fanboyism.

By the way, this is a dead horse and there is a topic for it.


:up: totally agree

#944 HPT

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 23:07

being mistreated and luckily outscore LH is in the context of 2007 a contradiction. it wouldnt contradict itsself if you say: Despite being mistreated he outscored ...
a mistreatement is anything else than a situation of luck. and scoring in such an environment more points than the teammate and calling it luck is more an insult than anything else.


That's pure bs. It's as if you're trying too hard to use semantics to prove a point which you didn't have in the first place. Dude, either you've misread or misunderstood my original point. Get over it. And before you say anything about me being defensive, you did go passive aggressive on me with your (paraphrase) 'next time collect your thoughts before posting...' which I have let slide all along, but boy do you keep coming back :lol:

And the funny thing is if you understood what I meant all along then why felt the need to have a little dig? If what I said was indeed the biggest contradictory post you've ever seen then perhaps you haven't been around much. Just sayin'  ;)

Edited by HPT, 13 July 2012 - 23:10.


#945 Vic Vega

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 23:40

I'm rather amazed at the above attitude. I really don't think Alonso would have left McLaren with a smile in 2007, if he did then his character is far worse than I'd like to think. I expect he was very bitter but that with the benefit of hindsight both he and McLaren realised that everyone in the team, both drivers and management, screwed up that year and made a right mess of what should have been a great partnership.

He was, quite visibly, devastated on the podium at Interlagos.

Posted Image


#946 as65p

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 23:43

Nice shot of him looking happy in McLaren gear! :up: :)

#947 Nitropower

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 01:23

He was, quite visibly, devastated on the podium at Interlagos.

Posted Image

I love this pic. Tells a lot about winning and losing.

#948 prty

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 07:42

http://www.youtube.c...C6buH-E#t=5m51s

Stella about the drivers. It's in Italian, so I hope I got everything right.

Schumacher: Incredible natural talent, sensibility of the rear end, but he was too much on the limit, which sometimes caused troubles.
Raikkonen: Has a driving style in which in certain conditions he was the quickest. But the problem is that condition range was a bit narrow.
Alonso: He has no weak points, and does the maximum in every condition. If there is a weak point is that seeing his career, is that he can get too competitive, although he has learned to control it now.

Edited by prty, 14 July 2012 - 07:43.


#949 topical

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:16

He was, quite visibly, devastated on the podium at Interlagos.


You know very well that's not what I meant. "with a smile on his face" means happy about the way the whole of 2007 worked out.

Edited by topical, 14 July 2012 - 08:17.


#950 kosmos

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:22

They have the video in english too.



If there is a weak point is that seeing his career, is that he can get too competitive, although he has learned to control it now.


I think he said in Italian that his weak point is his strong temperament that sometimes make him not to perform as best as he can, but he is much more in control now (with his temperament), there are some parts in Italian that I can't understand but clearly they said more and slighty different things in the video in Italian.

Edited by kosmos, 14 July 2012 - 08:37.