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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#951 mmmcm

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 08:38

Two out of the three years Kimi was at Ferrari they had a much better car than for most of the time since he left. And yes, like Massa himself and all his doctors, I believe he is no worse now than he was then. Schumacher comfortably beat him throughout their time together and Alonso has too. Massa didn't suddenly become great when he was paired with Kimi - it was Kimi who underperformed/was never as good as people thought in the first place.

:up:
I have no doubts that Massa is the same as before his accident. Nothing speaks against it. The difference lies in the car - the worse rhe car, the bigger the gap between Massa and a top driver in another Ferrari.

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#952 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:14

That's pure bs. It's as if you're trying too hard to use semantics to prove a point which you didn't have in the first place. Dude, either you've misread or misunderstood my original point. Get over it. And before you say anything about me being defensive, you did go passive aggressive on me with your (paraphrase) 'next time collect your thoughts before posting...' which I have let slide all along, but boy do you keep coming back :lol:

And the funny thing is if you understood what I meant all along then why felt the need to have a little dig? If what I said was indeed the biggest contradictory post you've ever seen then perhaps you haven't been around much. Just sayin' ;)

everything is :smoking:  ;)
talking about 2007 and alonso and using the word luck is just a contradiction. thats it, nothing more. but let us get over it.  ;)

#953 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:20

The British press is, well the British press. Have you ever considered that when making Alonso look good they actually are making Hamilton look even better?

makes no sense, because they are saying he is the best. they just show with it, that 2007 is not representative for alonsos skills.

There are a lot of British motor sport journalist in the business with a lot of let's say credibilty. Now, tell me how many of them rate Hamilton and Alonso the best? Personally I think Alonso is in a different league than Hamilton, perhaps not faster when in a good car but overall without contention.

you are just approving what i said above.

Is Alonso the best? Certainly one of the best but there are so many factors to be considered that it's impossible to say but he certainly is dooing a god job this year to make it look so

sure it is hard to to tell, but he is leading in a car which shouldnt allow that + we have the most competitive field of all time right now (6 WDC + some potential future champions)

#954 velgajski1

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:23

everything is :smoking:  ;)
talking about 2007 and alonso and using the word luck is just a contradiction. thats it, nothing more. but let us get over it. ;)


What he probably means is that Hamilton had more reliability issues and team mistakes. Given that its universally accepted that Alonso was not #1 driver at McLaren, you have to say that he was lucky to have less reliability issues and team errors, capiche? It's either luck or perhaps some might have theory that Alonso was in fact #1 driver.

#955 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:27

What he probably means is that Hamilton had more reliability issues and team mistakes. Given that its universally accepted that Alonso was not #1 driver at McLaren, you have to say that he was lucky to have less reliability issues and team errors, capiche? It's either luck or perhaps some might have theory that Alonso was in fact #1 driver.

more reliablitiy issues?

alonso had 3-4 tyre issues 1 technical error by the team.
hamilton had 2 tyre issues no technical error.

Edited by zk12, 14 July 2012 - 09:27.


#956 velgajski1

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:38

more reliablitiy issues?

alonso had 3-4 tyre issues 1 technical error by the team.
hamilton had 2 tyre issues no technical error.


Maybe if you live in a fiction world, yes.

#957 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:41

Maybe if you live in a fiction world, yes.

this is reality. but if you dont like it. show me your parallel-universe.

#958 puxanando

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:00

The championship leader is operating at the highest level we have ever seen him, even higher than his title years. At the start of the season nobody would have put money on the Spaniard leading the championship at this stage, considering the problems Ferrari have had. We should never have underestimated the incredible might of Fernando.
Alonso has been transcending the ability of his car at every race weekend and has been putting his car in places it has no right being. The only really disappointing race was China where he could only finish ninth.
Australia was perhaps the most remarkable race. When the car was at its worse 1.5 seconds off the pace he somehow managed to drag it to fifth place. In Malaysia he made the most of the opportunity the rain presented to him and grabbed it. His race through the field in Valencia from 11th was simply astonishing.
He might have won in Monaco too had the team left him out a few laps longer before pitting. Ferrari also made a big error on strategy in Canada which left him off the podium.
In one of F1’s most competitive seasons the theory that Alonso is F1’s most complete driver is being proven. He has been fast, consistent, determined and made the most of every opportunity presented to him. You can’t say he has put a foot wrong at any point so far, apart from a spin in qualifying in Melbourne, which he made up for in the race.
There’s a long way to go yet but if he can win this title it would have to go down as one of the most impressive title victories for years considering his equipment. At the moment we are potentially witnessing Alonso’s transition from a great to a legend.
He is the driver who is standing out at the moment in one of the most talented grids we have witnessed for many years.


WEB

:up:

#959 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 12:04

thank you for sharing this with us. the last sentence somehow annoys me, especially the last part of it. so as if there was at any time in the history of this sport such a competitive field.

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#960 revlec

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 13:43

There is a reason why i say ALO fans are very insecure.
They are constantly looking for consecration and want to stop the time when performances are at the highest.
All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.
_
My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason. Massa(the guy has 15 poles all achieved before his accident) was a guy who was sometimes faster than Schumacher(a man with 68 poles under his belt), and ALO is not the best qualifier(his fans can disagree but the results speak clear) of today F1.
.
We will know the thruth the day VET or HAM(especially him) will join Ferrari, but if ALO is clever(and i'm sure he is) he better keep his own "Edwards" (like Valentino Rossi used to do) to make him look better than he actually is.


Don't get me wrong(don't be offended).He is a Fanstastic driver, and he is among the top 4 drivers, but this head and shoulders thing is just ridiculous.

Edited by revlec, 14 July 2012 - 14:03.


#961 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:02

There is a reason why i say ALO fans are very insecure.
They are constantly looking for consecration and want to stop the time when performances are at the highest.
All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.
_
My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason. Massa(the guy has 15 poles all achieved before his accident) was a guy who was often faster than Schumacher(a man with 68 poles under his belt), and ALO is not the best qualifier(his fans can disagree but the results speak clear) of today F1.
.
We will know the thruth the day VET or HAM(especially him) will join Ferrari, but if ALO is clever(and i'm sure he is) he better keep his own "Edwards" (like Valentino Rossi used to do) to make him look better than he actually is.


Don't get me wrong(don't be offended).He is a Fanstastic driver, and he is among the top 4 drivers, but this head and shoulders thing is just ridiculous.

thanks for sharing. What would we've done without you :up:

#962 Skellen

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:06

There is a reason why i say ALO fans are very insecure.
They are constantly looking for consecration and want to stop the time when performances are at the highest.
All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.
_
My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason. Massa(the guy has 15 poles all achieved before his accident) was a guy who was often faster than Schumacher(a man with 68 poles under his belt), and ALO is not the best qualifier(his fans can disagree but the results speak clear) of today F1.
.
We will know the thruth the day VET or HAM(especially him) will join Ferrari, but if ALO is clever(and i'm sure he is) he better keep his own "Edwards" (like Valentino Rossi used to do) to make him look better than he actually is.


Don't get me wrong(don't be offended).He is a Fanstastic driver, and he is among the top 4 drivers, but this head and shoulders thing is just ridiculous.

Sorry, but what results?

#963 discover23

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 14:18

_
My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason.

So what do you think that ferrari has been the best car throughout the season? Did you watch pre season testing? Do you remember how was ferrari rated by his competitors, do you remember their gap to the top teams in the first few races? - yet Alonso was always, if not leading the points, not too far from the WDC lead.

Massa is the same driver, this myth that you have that Alonso is not quick in Q is BS, maybe Lewis is a bit quicker but things could be very different in Q results if the two were paired at ferrari instead. Vettel i have no idea because he's only gone up against Webber and has had the best car for almost 3 years now.

Edited by discover23, 14 July 2012 - 14:19.


#964 revlec

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:17

So what do you think that ferrari has been the best car throughout the season? Did you watch pre season testing? Do you remember how was ferrari rated by his competitors, do you remember their gap to the top teams in the first few races? - yet Alonso was always, if not leading the points, not too far from the WDC lead.

Massa is the same driver, this myth that you have that Alonso is not quick in Q is BS, maybe Lewis is a bit quicker but things could be very different in Q results if the two were paired at ferrari instead. Vettel i have no idea because he's only gone up against Webber and has had the best car for almost 3 years now.


I love the perception that when WEB/VET win it's because they have the best car, but when ALO wins it's because HE is simply the best.

About the pre season testing, if you go through my posts, i was may be the only one(at that time. February/March) to predict that ALO/FERRARI would have been the biggest threat this season.
I know how big Ferrari is and how much experience they have.


#965 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:21

I've been an Alonso fan since he made a huge impact in 2003 and I've been there all the way, cheering him on through the ups and downs. Frankly I'm not in the least bit insecure about this and I couldn't care what other people think of him. After the trials of being a fan 2007-2009 and with some people questioning his abilities when he was driving difficult Renaults I'm going to take my moment to enjoy other people appreciating his talents, knowing that all the time I was right to stick by him.

#966 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:31

There is a reason why i say ALO fans are very insecure.
They are constantly looking for consecration and want to stop the time when performances are at the highest.
All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.
_
My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason. Massa(the guy has 15 poles all achieved before his accident) was a guy who was sometimes faster than Schumacher(a man with 68 poles under his belt), and ALO is not the best qualifier(his fans can disagree but the results speak clear) of today F1.
.
We will know the thruth the day VET or HAM(especially him) will join Ferrari, but if ALO is clever(and i'm sure he is) he better keep his own "Edwards" (like Valentino Rossi used to do) to make him look better than he actually is.


Don't get me wrong(don't be offended).He is a Fanstastic driver, and he is among the top 4 drivers, but this head and shoulders thing is just ridiculous.

What were the qualifying stats between Alonso and Hamilton (supposedly the fastest man in formula 1) in 2007?

#967 revlec

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:40

What were the qualifying stats between Alonso and Hamilton (supposedly the fastest man in formula 1) in 2007?


I have no idea... I was discussing Massa and his inability to qualify despite his fantastic qualifying results.



#968 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:50

I have no idea... I was discussing Massa and his inability to qualify despite his fantastic qualifying results.


Huh? You were stating that "ALO is not the best qualifier (his fans can disagree but the results speak clear)". As it turns out, you had all that confidence despite not even knowing his results.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 14 July 2012 - 15:51.


#969 ViMaMo

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:52

There is a reason why i say ALO fans are very insecure.
They are constantly looking for consecration and want to stop the time when performances are at the highest.
All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.
_
My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason. Massa(the guy has 15 poles all achieved before his accident) was a guy who was sometimes faster than Schumacher(a man with 68 poles under his belt), and ALO is not the best qualifier(his fans can disagree but the results speak clear) of today F1.
.
We will know the thruth the day VET or HAM(especially him) will join Ferrari, but if ALO is clever(and i'm sure he is) he better keep his own "Edwards" (like Valentino Rossi used to do) to make him look better than he actually is.


Don't get me wrong(don't be offended).He is a Fanstastic driver, and he is among the top 4 drivers, but this head and shoulders thing is just ridiculous.


What was your opinion at the start of this season?

You suffer the same 'whatever' as Button fans. I like Alonso, but do not claim him to be no1. That position is a knife's edge. Neither is Hamilton No1. or Vettel.


#970 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 15:55

I have no idea... I was discussing Massa and his inability to qualify despite his fantastic qualifying results.

No. You said Alonso is not the best qualifier and that the results speak for themselves... Well excluding Hungary qualifying went 8 - 7 Hamilton's way. So either Alonso's raw speed is not acknowledged or Hamilton is not as fast as we are led to believe?

#971 kosmos

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:08

All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.


Please tell us when we should talk about it, maybe when he is gone?. If there is a pattern, it's your behavior and own insecurity when you write the word Alonso or Alonso fans. If I don't like milk I don't have my fridge full of milk, so if you don't like Alonso or Alonso fans, you are smart enough to know what to do.

#972 discover23

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:14

I love the perception that when WEB/VET win it's because they have the best car, but when ALO wins it's because HE is .....

So you are right and everyone else including mototsports experts are wrong.. Okay..


#973 revlec

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:21

No. You said Alonso is not the best qualifier and that the results speak for themselves... Well excluding Hungary qualifying went 8 - 7 Hamilton's way. So either Alonso's raw speed is not acknowledged or Hamilton is not as fast as we are led to believe?

didn't mean to open another 2007 mini-thread. But excluding Hungary, Hamilton that year had 5 poles and Alonso 2 poles.
I reckon driving for Ferrari, Lewis will not have to wait for 2 years to grab a pole position.

Alonso has his strenghts, and IMHO compared to HAM(experienced now) and VET qualifying is not one of them. The other two lack in different departments. As you see nobody is perfect, hence Massa remains a mistery to me.



#974 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:21

So you are right and everyone else including mototsports experts are wrong.. Okay..


Hmmm... you know, the motorsport community is also out of this thread, just saying :lol:

The top drivers are extremelly matched. If packages are tight, everything can happen between them. Ferrari and Red Bull were as tight on peformance as it gets this weekend, and Webber took it this time. Enough of this "Alonso wins because his driving, the rest because of their car" shit. It´s a joke. He is the one that´s getting the most out of the season, clearly the best driver so far, but that way of thinking is moronic.

#975 revlec

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:23

So you are right and everyone else including mototsports experts are wrong.. Okay..


Expert on what?
Button, Sir Williams share a similar opinion to mine.

#976 revlec

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:37

That's the thing i don't understand either.
Call me mad, but the team i fear the most this year is Ferrari.

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5563515
_

I think, Ferrari(the car) is not slow.
they - may be - are behind now (just like McLaren last year during testing) , but i have no doubt they will have more room in term of developments during the year.

If you remember 2010 testing period, Ferrari was pounding laps like crazy(just like McLaren is doing now) with great lap times. I don't like all the optimism in the McLaren thread, so i think we will find out only in the first races were Ferrari belong.
It's obvious they are focusing now in the areas where they have problems, so to speak, their ultimate pace is yet to be seen.

http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5563490

_____

I wrote this posts on March(3rd) in the Ferrari thread. :)
May be i should start a F1 magazine or website..

Edited by revlec, 14 July 2012 - 16:41.


#977 RedOne

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:47

I've been an Alonso fan since he made a huge impact in 2003 and I've been there all the way, cheering him on through the ups and downs. Frankly I'm not in the least bit insecure about this and I couldn't care what other people think of him. After the trials of being a fan 2007-2009 and with some people questioning his abilities when he was driving difficult Renaults I'm going to take my moment to enjoy other people appreciating his talents, knowing that all the time I was right to stick by him.


Exactly, it makes me enjoy the compliments so much more because it's like a compliment to his long time supporters who believed in him through everything. And what makes it sweeter is a small minority of people going out of there way to try to diminish him or change other people's views are completely wasting there time and energy. That's the reason there here because of so much praise they try to be different and cool just for the sake of it and to stand out.

Edited by RedOne, 14 July 2012 - 16:48.


#978 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:47

didn't mean to open another 2007 mini-thread. But excluding Hungary, Hamilton that year had 5 poles and Alonso 2 poles.
I reckon driving for Ferrari, Lewis will not have to wait for 2 years to grab a pole position.

Alonso has his strenghts, and IMHO compared to HAM(experienced now) and VET qualifying is not one of them. The other two lack in different departments. As you see nobody is perfect, hence Massa remains a mistery to me.

This is not about the mess that 2007 was...

I see you've shifted the goal posts to exclusively pole positions now but the fact still remains that Alonso (the mediocre qualifier) or Hamilton (the speed machine), whichever way you wanna look at it, we're closely matched in qualifying. There is absolutely no way you can spin stats... The same way you cannot spin Hamilton beating Alonso on a count back.

So which is it? Is Alonso a mediocre qualifier which by default makes Hamilton marginally better or is Alonso's raw speed underrated?

#979 currupipi

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:49

I love the perception that when WEB/VET win it's because they have the best car, but when ALO wins it's because HE is simply the best.

About the pre season testing, if you go through my posts, i was may be the only one(at that time. February/March) to predict that ALO/FERRARI would have been the biggest threat this season.
I know how big Ferrari is and how much experience they have.



sort of like when massa qualifies ahead of alonso its because alonso is not a good qualifier but when alonso does so ahead of massa its because his head is not right..


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#980 fabr68

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:56

didn't mean to open another 2007 mini-thread. But excluding Hungary, Hamilton that year had 5 poles and Alonso 2 poles.
I reckon driving for Ferrari, Lewis will not have to wait for 2 years to grab a pole position.

Alonso has his strenghts, and IMHO compared to HAM(experienced now) and VET qualifying is not one of them. The other two lack in different departments. As you see nobody is perfect, hence Massa remains a mistery to me.


Yeah. We hear all this all the time. "Alonso is not the best qualyfier" "Alonso is not the best wet weather driver" Yet, "the best" qualyfiers and wet weather drivers were nowhere to be seen at Silverstone wet qualy.

Please don't open the 2007 can of worms. Back then there were a lot of official explanations by the ex team principal on how Alonso got his tire pressures screwed or less than optimal fuel loads during severeal qualyfying sessions.

I have no idea how Hamilton or Vettel would qualify on Alonso's Ferrari. Better or worst is anything but certain.


#981 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 16:56

sort of like when massa qualifies ahead of alonso its because alonso is not a good qualifier but when alonso does so ahead of massa its because his head is not right.


No one is stupid enough to say that around here. Massa is bashed to death for underperforming, and righlty so. Yet the other absurd theory is well popular around here.

#982 puxanando

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:15

There is a reason why i say ALO fans are very insecure.
They are constantly looking for consecration and want to stop the time when performances are at the highest.
All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc) pop up in "certain" moments that it's easy to see a pattern.
_


My opinion?

We can post & speak of "All those threads (greatest ever, Pundits top list, etc)", because our driver get a lot of appreciation, more than any other driver right now.
Why we should not post it here? It is HIS thread!

Members are doing it in other driver threads also and nearly without having templates from press and/or experts!



#983 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:16

2007 qualifying was the with different fuel levels.

#984 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:23

2007 qualifying was the with different fuel levels.


I think Q2 was 9-8 in Alonso's favour? If people are going to pick qualifying as his weakest point then I'm happy to go with that!

#985 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:27

I think Q2 was 9-8 in Alonso's favour? If people are going to pick qualifying as his weakest point then I'm happy to go with that!

+ 3 qualys where alonso had mysterious tyre pressure problems (in q3) + hungary + france (only technical error in q2 for alonso)

#986 zk12

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:28

Massa is bashed to death for underperforming, and righlty so.

not really, just alonso/massa bashers do that. others analyse

#987 SirRacer

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:48

I wouldn't take 2007 as a good comparasion in qualy between Ham and Alonso, but Alonso certainly didn't look slow compared to Hamilton. They were pretty much equal, and I followed that season very closely.

Edited by SirRacer, 14 July 2012 - 17:48.


#988 topical

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 17:54

I wouldn't take 2007 as a good comparasion in qualy between Ham and Alonso, but Alonso certainly didn't look slow compared to Hamilton. They were pretty much equal, and I followed that season very closely.


Yes. Alonso had generally a slight edge in the first races, Hamilton had a slight edge coming up to mid season, Alonso got back on top towards the end of the European season, and Hamilton an edge in the last couple of races. It swung one way and another throughout the year, but on raw speed they were pretty evenly matched.
Alonso may not be the single quickest guy over one lap but I still think he's a pretty good qualifier and the reason he doesn't have more poles is more to do with the fact that he's seldom had the outright fastest car.

Edited by topical, 14 July 2012 - 17:57.


#989 Ferrari2183

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 18:12

Yes. Alonso had generally a slight edge in the first races, Hamilton had a slight edge coming up to mid season, Alonso got back on top towards the end of the European season, and Hamilton an edge in the last couple of races. It swung one way and another throughout the year, but on raw speed they were pretty evenly matched.
Alonso may not be the single quickest guy over one lap but I still think he's a pretty good qualifier and the reason he doesn't have more poles is more to do with the fact that he's seldom had the outright fastest car.

I honestly don't know where this notion that Alonso is not a good qualifier originates from. You do not win multiple championships by being a mug in qualifying.

I couldn't care less if Ali Baba thinks that Alonso is the next best thing since sliced bread but you're going to have hard time convincing me that Alonso hasn't been the stand out driver since mid 2010. Over that period it has been close between him and Vettel but I'd give it to Alonso by virtue of machinery.

#990 velgajski1

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 19:19

this is reality. but if you dont like it. show me your parallel-universe.


If you think that Hamilton's Brazil gearbox isn't a techincal issue then there's nothing else to talk about. Also, I seem to recall only single issue Alonso had with tyres.

This is what Alonso fan HPT here tried to explain to you, this is the reason why Alonso was lucky in 2007., but okay, you're entitled to believe Alonso had 12 reliability issues, and that McLaren sabotaged his car every race if you wish, while Hamilton's tyre exploding and techincal issues were because he himself didn't know how to take care of the equipment.

Edited by velgajski1, 14 July 2012 - 19:22.


#991 as65p

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 20:44

If you think that Hamilton's Brazil gearbox isn't a techincal issue then there's nothing else to talk about.


You really want to go there, the temporarily-magnetic-glitchy-but-ultimately-self-healing gearbox? Better leave it as one of the last unsolved mysteries of racing, I suggest.  ;)

#992 beanoid

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 21:28

My opinion? Ferrari(car+team) is better than many think. Massa is simply not the same for whatever reason. Massa(the guy has 15 poles all achieved before his accident) was a guy who was sometimes faster than Schumacher(a man with 68 poles under his belt), and ALO is not the best qualifier(his fans can disagree but the results speak clear) of today F1.


Wait--how many points are awarded in qualifying?

Oh, yeah! Exactly . . .

ZERO.

Last I checked, they award the points for where you are at the end of the race. He's fifth on the all-time wins list (already), and 4th in total podiums. He finishes on the podium over 40% of the time. In baseball, if that were your batting average, you'd be a frigging all-time legend. These records are in spite of the fact that he was driving a Minardi for one season, and an utterly craptastic Renault for at least three of seasons out of 11 total.

And since you're so worried about qualifying, if he was so bad at it, he wouldn't have those finishing stats. F1 isn't NASCAR, where you can pass 300 cars in half a lap.

Edited by beanoid, 14 July 2012 - 21:29.


#993 Nitropower

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 02:01

If you think that Hamilton's Brazil gearbox isn't a techincal issue then there's nothing else to talk about. Also, I seem to recall only single issue Alonso had with tyres.

This is what Alonso fan HPT here tried to explain to you, this is the reason why Alonso was lucky in 2007., but okay, you're entitled to believe Alonso had 12 reliability issues, and that McLaren sabotaged his car every race if you wish, while Hamilton's tyre exploding and techincal issues were because he himself didn't know how to take care of the equipment.


Gearbox failure nothing to do with qualifying (that's what they were talking about). Well you recall what you like do you recall in Hungary which tires Alonso was given for his last attempt? used primes... and Hamilton? brand new options... in China there was this mysterious pressure problem... in Bahrain something heavy accidentally fell onto Alonso's car in the garage in the middle of the night before the race... Hamilton was usually given more qualifying runs so his last attempt would be lighter... but you can keep recalling what you want, it's normal. Furthermore I've been watching Hamilton drive 6 years now and I am completely sure I have seen him lock the wheels and make spots on tires many more times than Alonso (in 2007 before entering the pits many times, also during races, lately he does it very often too...) so yes maybe some of his tire failures were connected to his driving style. I'm not critizising his style but he's obviously aggresive on tires.

Hamilton is a very fast driver but tbh I expected much more from him after so much hype in 2007. In fact that was his best year to date even better than the WDC year. It's ok in 2009 the car was scheisse half of the season but the other half it was capable of winning and Hamilton made bad mistakes such as Monza, in 2010 he had some cards under the sleeve and he screwed it up really fast, and so irregular in 2011.

As for the praise given to Alonso's performances, well if you take a look at the media it's coming from them in the first place, do you watch BBC? I don't remember the last time Alonso had the fastest car in the last few years... and if so, it was not more than 4-5 times since 2006... so maybe it's better if you simply write you simply don't like Alonso to be praised so much, rather than he's more praised than deserved.

Edited by Nitropower, 15 July 2012 - 02:10.


#994 velgajski1

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:55

You really want to go there, the temporarily-magnetic-glitchy-but-ultimately-self-healing gearbox? Better leave it as one of the last unsolved mysteries of racing, I suggest.;)


Vettel and Webber in RBR had many of similar temporary issues over the last 2-3 seasons IIRC. Most plausible solution for Hamilton's glitch is sabotage, or at least most of Alonso fans would claim he is sabotaged if something similar happened to him in 2007.

I am quite sure that more comical of Hamilton fans actually believe in that just like Alonso fans scream sabotage everytime someone is faster than him.

Edited by velgajski1, 15 July 2012 - 07:15.


#995 velgajski1

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:05

Gearbox failure nothing to do with qualifying (that's what they were talking about). Well you recall what you like do you recall in Hungary which tires Alonso was given for his last attempt? used primes... and Hamilton? brand new options... in China there was this mysterious pressure problem... in Bahrain something heavy accidentally fell onto Alonso's car in the garage in the middle of the night before the race... Hamilton was usually given more qualifying runs so his last attempt would be lighter... but you can keep recalling what you want, it's normal. Furthermore I've been watching Hamilton drive 6 years now and I am completely sure I have seen him lock the wheels and make spots on tires many more times than Alonso (in 2007 before entering the pits many times, also during races, lately he does it very often too...) so yes maybe some of his tire failures were connected to his driving style. I'm not critizising his style but he's obviously aggresive on tires.


So, all this conspiracy sniveling is something you still cling to? I know what I saw on TV - Hamilton had more problems than Alonso, and his problems were real, visible and costly. On the other hand, Alonso had imaginary problems which I didn't even once hear himself saying, just some crap from posters around here.

EOD from my side, I was just explaining why some Alonso fans here think Alonso was lucky to finish 2007. on points with Hamilton.

Edited by velgajski1, 15 July 2012 - 07:07.


#996 SUPRAF1

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:22

This season it appears Alonso has one thing more than any other driver - luck.

It's almost as if some divine forces were in play in F1 when Ferrari were struggling at the start of the season because they got the best results possible in those races in things beyond their control, with the top teams cannibalizing points off each other resulting in no one building a significant lead.

Then the rain in Malaysia gave him a crucial win in a car that no expert believed had winning potential.

In Valencia both Seb and Lewis had a DNF, which gave Alonso a significant lead in the WDC. Compare this with FP2/Q2(can't remember :p) in Australia when he spun off and everyone thought Ferrari were done for this season.

It's hard to explain but with what's happened so far it almost feels as if Alonso is destined to be WDC this year :p.



#997 zk12

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:33

Vettel and Webber in RBR had many of similar temporary issues over the last 2-3 seasons IIRC. Most plausible solution for Hamilton's glitch is sabotage,

or some off his off-road drives.

#998 zk12

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:40

This season it appears Alonso has one thing more than any other driver - luck.

It's almost as if some divine forces were in play in F1 when Ferrari were struggling at the start of the season because they got the best results possible in those races in things beyond their control, with the top teams cannibalizing points off each other resulting in no one building a significant lead.

Then the rain in Malaysia gave him a crucial win in a car that no expert believed had winning potential.

In Valencia both Seb and Lewis had a DNF, which gave Alonso a significant lead in the WDC. Compare this with FP2/Q2(can't remember :p) in Australia when he spun off and everyone thought Ferrari were done for this season.

It's hard to explain but with what's happened so far it almost feels as if Alonso is destined to be WDC this year :p.

it was not luck that lewis had a dnf in valencia, it was a mistake by lewis, he forgot for one moment, what is more important. and sometimes it is more important to be smart.
in malaysia: not the rain in malaysia gave alonao a crucial win, it was alonsos outstanding drive.
why alonso is leading the championship right now: coz he showed us the most outstanding performanes, in a car which is not predestined to allow that.

coming back to malaysia: the malaysia win is far more important than many are recognizing. with that win, he bought ferrari some time to do their work with less pressure from outside, which allowed the team to improve in a stable surrounding.
Without that win, i am sure, that ferrari wouldnt be that strong right now, and due to that, some ppl would have been replaced.
so the malaysia win is maybe one of the most important wins for ferrari in the last couple of years, especially for the stability in the team.

Edited by zk12, 15 July 2012 - 07:41.


#999 jstrains

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:48

I think we all remember emotional Andrea Stella after that win in Malaysia, showing how much pressure was on the team and what a relief it was

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#1000 garoidb

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 07:57

This season it appears Alonso has one thing more than any other driver - luck.

It's almost as if some divine forces were in play in F1 when Ferrari were struggling at the start of the season because they got the best results possible in those races in things beyond their control, with the top teams cannibalizing points off each other resulting in no one building a significant lead.

Then the rain in Malaysia gave him a crucial win in a car that no expert believed had winning potential.

In Valencia both Seb and Lewis had a DNF, which gave Alonso a significant lead in the WDC. Compare this with FP2/Q2(can't remember :p) in Australia when he spun off and everyone thought Ferrari were done for this season.

It's hard to explain but with what's happened so far it almost feels as if Alonso is destined to be WDC this year :p.


It is really just a continuation of what he did last season. He scored points in every race bar Canada last year, and got 10 podiums.