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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#1151 launcher

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:53

When the field is bunched together for the last few years and in the past... many all time greats are made out of it. Why?


Because its true?

Its not really many, just 2-3, just as in the 80s there was 3.

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#1152 garoidb

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:53

I never mentioned Vettel here, and also Alonso F1 career is more impressive than Hamiltons. I thought Hamilton would improve after 2007/2008, and he seemingly did in 2010. up until Monza. Since then I do have to admit I'm not sure it is not a matter of not having enough luck or experience, but perhaps case of simply 'not having it'. That being said, in 2010. Alonso was no better than Vettel or Hamilton and that was my point. If you watched thread closely, it is more about Alonso comparisons with Schumacher/Senna and wheter he falls into this group of drivers or not. Both Vettel and Hamilton are still too young to give more objective views on their careers. If you really want me to talk about Vettel, I'd say that I suspect he is one of the guys that 'has it'.


Vettel is quite impressive so far, I agree. It is easier to judge the quality of a driver when they have had to deal with some adversity and he has not had that yet. No doubt it will come.

#1153 garoidb

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:56

Because its true?

Its not really many, just 2-3, just as in the 80s there was 3.


Senna, Prost and Piquet I assume (who won seven of the ten titles from 1980 to 1989). Lauda was more of a 70s legend, arguably Senna was more of 90s one.

#1154 ali_M

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:10

Because its true?

Its not really many, just 2-3, just as in the 80s there was 3.


That word 'true' is used way too loosely. There's conventional wisdom. When one really sits down and examines it, one realises that it can't really be claimed as TRUTH. You're only as good as your opponents and how you perform relative to them in any sport. No driver who doesn't win will be considered a great... even if he always drives a lower midfield car.

Fortunately for Alonso, he's earning his greatness in a more tightly bunched field. His greatness will not be tarnished by dominance on his part. A dominance that is ascribed to everything else but him, i.e., poor competition, a dominant car and team support. Right now, Alonso's team support is overshadowed by how busy he is in the races. :)

#1155 Ferrari2183

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:12

Senna, Prost and Piquet I assume (who won seven of the ten titles from 1980 to 1989). Lauda was more of a 70s legend, arguably Senna was more of 90s one.

Senna was great in the 80's. He won in '88 with McLaren, was runner-up the following year. He also had some great drives in the Lotus...

#1156 Lights

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:22

Yeah, but he binned it in Monaco, binned it in Spa, jumped the start in China, etc. The first half of his season was very erratic. The second half was brilliant. All the drivers in 2010 had their ups and downs and none of them, imo, was clearly better than the rest. So I think the Hamilton fan has a point.

None of those things damaged his point total as much as what Vettel did in Turkey or Spa. What does a drive-through matter in a wet race with safety cars. He still finished 4th and would've never beat the McLarens. In Spa he was driving around with damage because he got hit and he wouldn't score big points there anyway, perhaps 2 or 4. And in Monaco he still got 8 points after a fantastic race. Vettel threw a win away in Turkey and a second place in Spa with some of the dumbest mistakes I've ever seen in someone's apparent WDC season. To say Alonso had a 'WDC capable car' is only based on the fact that he finished so close in the championship. But that he finished 10 points ahead of Webber, who had plenty of mistakes himself, tells me enough. Are we all already forgetting here that the RB6 was almost a second faster in some qualifications and races?

#1157 garoidb

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:38

Senna was great in the 80's. He won in '88 with McLaren, was runner-up the following year. He also had some great drives in the Lotus...


Yes, I was not arguing against that. In some ways, what we remember as the "eighties" was really the period from 84-85 to 92-93, starting with the emergence of Senna and Mansell and finishing at the end of the 93 season by which time Prost and Piquet had retired and Mansell had moved on to Indycar. IIRC 93 was the last time there were two of top four (Senna, Prost, Piquet, Mansell) competing, with 1991 being the last year all four were present.

But I am wandering off topic.

#1158 kosmos

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:40

Yeah, but he binned it in Monaco, binned it in Spa, jumped the start in China, etc. The first half of his season was very erratic. The second half was brilliant. All the drivers in 2010 had their ups and downs and none of them, imo, was clearly better than the rest. So I think the Hamilton fan has a point.


The difference is that Alonso was in a new team learning the ropes, Hamilton and Vettel was just the opposite, so cut him some slack with the "erratic".


#1159 Juggles

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:45

None of those things damaged his point total as much as what Vettel did in Turkey or Spa. What does a drive-through matter in a wet race with safety cars. He still finished 4th and would've never beat the McLarens. In Spa he was driving around with damage because he got hit and he wouldn't score big points there anyway, perhaps 2 or 4. And in Monaco he still got 8 points after a fantastic race. Vettel threw a win away in Turkey and a second place in Spa with some of the dumbest mistakes I've ever seen in someone's apparent WDC season. To say Alonso had a 'WDC capable car' is only based on the fact that he finished so close in the championship. But that he finished 10 points ahead of Webber, who had plenty of mistakes himself, tells me enough. Are we all already forgetting here that the RB6 was almost a second faster in some qualifications and races?


The fact that Alonso finished so close in the championship proves that he had a 'WDC capable car.' The Alonso-Ferrari package was clearly capable of winning the championship and came within a whisker of doing so. You can't say it was a foregone conclusion that a Red Bull was going to win the championship when only a strategy error in the final race handed it to Vettel.

What you can say is that Alonso drove very well to be in that position in a clearly inferior car. Both he and Hamilton took their cars to the brink of the championship when they should never have been allowed to by Red Bull. However, I do think it was easier for those two to capitalise on Red Bull's mechanical and other issues than it would have been in other seasons simply because with a clean race they were almost guaranteed to finish in the top five every time.

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#1160 Juggles

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:51

The difference is that Alonso was in a new team learning the ropes, Hamilton and Vettel was just the opposite, so cut him some slack with the "erratic".


This is an overused argument which is also a favourite amongst Button fans. I don't know if Vettel had to deal with anything new but Hamilton was dealing with a new race engineer, a new teammate leading to a new team dynamic, and the loss of his father as his manager. Considering how welcomed Alonso was at Ferrari and the fact that he won the first race of the season, it's quite a tenuous argument to call this a big factor. Alonso is too good a driver to need to "learn the ropes" at a new team. He just got in the car and drove it fast.

#1161 SirRacer

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 10:55

Yeah, but he binned it in Monaco, binned it in Spa, jumped the start in China, etc. The first half of his season was very erratic. The second half was brilliant. All the drivers in 2010 had their ups and downs and none of them, imo, was clearly better than the rest. So I think the Hamilton fan has a point.

Both in Monaco and China Alonso made up for the errors with his recoveries, costing at much 1-2 positions each race.
In Belgium he was 8th, that's 4 points.

Doesn't look so much compared with what Vettel, Hamilton and Webber lost due to their mistakes, right? :)

#1162 as65p

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:02

This is an overused argument which is also a favourite amongst Button fans. I don't know if Vettel had to deal with anything new but Hamilton was dealing with a new race engineer, a new teammate leading to a new team dynamic, and the loss of his father as his manager. Considering how welcomed Alonso was at Ferrari and the fact that he won the first race of the season, it's quite a tenuous argument to call this a big factor. Alonso is too good a driver to need to "learn the ropes" at a new team. He just got in the car and drove it fast.


Let's talk about the matter of learning curves in a new team again after Hamilton has gone somewhere else than McLaren. I'm curious if you still dismiss it as totally irrelevant then.  ;)

Personally I find it silly to not consider it. Sure, the best drivers will have the smoothest transitions, but it's unthinkable that there is nothing to optimize and get better at in a new team, car, environment. Alonso talked a lot about it even before the 2010 season started. Just recently Andrea Stella said how better they understand eachother now after two and a half years.

#1163 discover23

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:05

....and the Ferrari in 2010 was not as bad as the Ferrari MSC inherited...and still won with

MSC was WDC in a ferrari that was not as good as the car Alonso drove in 2010?
What year was that?

#1164 kosmos

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:09

This is an overused argument which is also a favourite amongst Button fans. I don't know if Vettel had to deal with anything new but Hamilton was dealing with a new race engineer, a new teammate leading to a new team dynamic, and the loss of his father as his manager. Considering how welcomed Alonso was at Ferrari and the fact that he won the first race of the season, it's quite a tenuous argument to call this a big factor. Alonso is too good a driver to need to "learn the ropes" at a new team. He just got in the car and drove it fast.



I'm not saying that the cause of those mistakes was because it was his first year in Ferrari, but he was not at 100% (in and out the track) in those first months, something that Dominicalli said this year in an interview. Alonso was coming to a new team with new working methodology among many other things, it took him some time to settle in the team, something that in my opinion didn't allow him to perform at his best in those early months.

And no, I'm not saying that he had a jump start because he didn't know the name of his mechanics.

#1165 Lights

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:10

The fact that Alonso finished so close in the championship proves that he had a 'WDC capable car.' The Alonso-Ferrari package was clearly capable of winning the championship and came within a whisker of doing so. You can't say it was a foregone conclusion that a Red Bull was going to win the championship when only a strategy error in the final race handed it to Vettel.

What you can say is that Alonso drove very well to be in that position in a clearly inferior car. Both he and Hamilton took their cars to the brink of the championship when they should never have been allowed to by Red Bull. However, I do think it was easier for those two to capitalise on Red Bull's mechanical and other issues than it would have been in other seasons simply because with a clean race they were almost guaranteed to finish in the top five every time.

Yes, like I said, but it's 'only' based on that. If you actually see races like Spain, Hungary or Singapore, you're not thinking 'that Ferrari is better than that Red Bull' despite Alonso finishing ahead. There are no examples of this the other way around, however.

#1166 as65p

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:14

I never mentioned Vettel here,


But you did.

... In 2010. Vettel and Hamilton too had just a few bad races - ...


and also Alonso F1 career is more impressive than Hamiltons. I thought Hamilton would improve after 2007/2008, and he seemingly did in 2010. up until Monza. Since then I do have to admit I'm not sure it is not a matter of not having enough luck or experience, but perhaps case of simply 'not having it'. That being said, in 2010. Alonso was no better than Vettel or Hamilton and that was my point. If you watched thread closely, it is more about Alonso comparisons with Schumacher/Senna and wheter he falls into this group of drivers or not. Both Vettel and Hamilton are still too young to give more objective views on their careers. If you really want me to talk about Vettel, I'd say that I suspect he is one of the guys that 'has it'.


That might have been the starting point (which frankly I'm not really interested in), but you always end up, for reasons only known by yourself :) , trying to prove Hamiltons worth.

#1167 scandyman

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:30

Both in Monaco and China Alonso made up for the errors with his recoveries, costing at much 1-2 positions each race.
In Belgium he was 8th, that's 4 points.

Doesn't look so much compared with what Vettel, Hamilton and Webber lost due to their mistakes, right? :)

I think you are stretching reality a bit. If my memory recalls right Alonso binned the car in the damp track and didn't finish the whole race.

WIKI: "Fernando Alonso was the fourth and final retirement, making an uncharacteristic mistake as he exited the Les Combes-Malmedy complex. Alonso ran wide and strayed onto the artificial grass strip lining the outside of the corner where he lost all grip and spun into the wall, his Ferrari coming to rest perpendicular to the circuit and triggering the second safety car."

#1168 Cesc

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:43

But he had a WDC capable cars in both 2007. and 2010. and he didn't deliver.


Well, if finishing 2 points away from the championship in 2007 and 5 in 2010 is not delivering.... I wonder where your standards are.

#1169 velgajski1

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 11:59

Well, if finishing 2 points away from the championship in 2007 and 5 in 2010 is not delivering.... I wonder where your standards are.


We're talking about possibility of Alonso being on Senna/Schumacher level. Since I'm at the 'negative' side, my claim was that Senna and Schumacher had more titles than Alonso has now when they were 10 seasons into F1. Counterargument was that Alonso never had chance to win more than two titles (or something like that) then I just warned about 2007., and 2010. and all hell broke loose :)

#1170 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:03

We're talking about possibility of Alonso being on Senna/Schumacher level. Since I'm at the 'negative' side, my claim was that Senna and Schumacher had more titles than Alonso has now when they were 10 seasons into F1. Counterargument was that Alonso never had chance to win more than two titles (or something like that) then I just warned about 2007., and 2010. and all hell broke loose :)

intelligent discussion, intelligent chain of causation. the right thread for it and velgajski1 is involved. what else do we need?

Edited by zk12, 18 July 2012 - 12:03.


#1171 Cesc

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:23

We're talking about possibility of Alonso being on Senna/Schumacher level. Since I'm at the 'negative' side, my claim was that Senna and Schumacher had more titles than Alonso has now when they were 10 seasons into F1. Counterargument was that Alonso never had chance to win more than two titles (or something like that) then I just warned about 2007., and 2010. and all hell broke loose :)


But you are probably well aware that numbers are not all in F1. Despite what many people on the 'bad side' claim that Alonso has had car winning capable cars, he never had a car as superior as the McLaren was in 1988 - 1990 that Senna had or the 2001 - 2004 Ferrari that Schumacher had. He has had good cars, definetely, but in many parts of his winning seasons, he has had to deal with faster cars than his (2005 the McLaren was faster for most the season, in 2006 the Ferrari was also faster for 2/3 of the season... well, Bridgestone was better).

We have never seen Alonso in the best car for a complete season. So people judge Alonso for what he seems capable of doing with a not superior car than the other 'top guns' of the field.

Edited by Cesc, 18 July 2012 - 12:24.


#1172 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:30

But you are probably well aware that numbers are not all in F1. Despite what many people on the 'bad side' claim that Alonso has had car winning capable cars, he never had a car as superior as the McLaren was in 1988 - 1990 that Senna had or the 2001 - 2004 Ferrari that Schumacher had. He has had good cars, definetely, but in many parts of his winning seasons, he has had to deal with faster cars than his (2005 the McLaren was faster for most the season, in 2006 the Ferrari was also faster for 2/3 of the season... well, Bridgestone was better).

We have never seen Alonso in the best car for a complete season. So people judge Alonso for what he seems capable of doing with a not superior car than the other 'top guns' of the field.


Best car is not always the fastest car! 2005,2006,2007 Alonso has at least equally best car and the most reliable.

#1173 topical

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:31

None of those things damaged his point total as much as what Vettel did in Turkey or Spa. What does a drive-through matter in a wet race with safety cars. He still finished 4th and would've never beat the McLarens. In Spa he was driving around with damage because he got hit and he wouldn't score big points there anyway, perhaps 2 or 4. And in Monaco he still got 8 points after a fantastic race. Vettel threw a win away in Turkey and a second place in Spa with some of the dumbest mistakes I've ever seen in someone's apparent WDC season. To say Alonso had a 'WDC capable car' is only based on the fact that he finished so close in the championship. But that he finished 10 points ahead of Webber, who had plenty of mistakes himself, tells me enough. Are we all already forgetting here that the RB6 was almost a second faster in some qualifications and races?



All I'm saying is that he made quite a few mistakes in the first part of 2010, and without those mistakes he could have won the championship. Yes, the Red Bull was much faster, but then Vettel fans emphasise the unreliability he had, etc. As I have said many mistakes, I am a big Alonso fan, I think he is the best driver on the grid when all things are considered, but I really can't stand blind fanaticism of any driver - whether it's Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel or anyone else. All these guys are human, they make mistakes, and I don't see any evidence to suggest any driver in F1 right now is head and shoulders above the rest - I agree that Alonso is the best, but it's not by a big margin and he is not the flawless god some posters here try to portray him as.

#1174 discover23

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:38

Best car is not always the fastest car! 2005,2006,2007 Alonso has at least equally best car and the most reliable.

In 2006 he had the same number of reliability problems as MSC - 2 .
Michael had a DNF that year in Australia due to a driver error - Alonso none.

#1175 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 12:39

All I'm saying is that he made quite a few mistakes in the first part of 2010, and without those mistakes he could have won the championship. Yes, the Red Bull was much faster, but then Vettel fans emphasise the unreliability he had, etc. As I have said many mistakes, I am a big Alonso fan, I think he is the best driver on the grid when all things are considered, but I really can't stand blind fanaticism of any driver - whether it's Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel or anyone else. All these guys are human, they make mistakes, and I don't see any evidence to suggest any driver in F1 right now is head and shoulders above the rest - I agree that Alonso is the best, but it's not by a big margin and he is not the flawless god some posters here try to portray him as.

you could also argue without the mess up by the stewards he could have won it also with those little mistakes.

#1176 topical

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 13:01

you could also argue without the mess up by the stewards he could have won it also with those little mistakes.


doesn't alter the fact I stated.

#1177 velgajski1

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 13:03

But you are probably well aware that numbers are not all in F1. Despite what many people on the 'bad side' claim that Alonso has had car winning capable cars, he never had a car as superior as the McLaren was in 1988 - 1990 that Senna had or the 2001 - 2004 Ferrari that Schumacher had. He has had good cars, definetely, but in many parts of his winning seasons, he has had to deal with faster cars than his (2005 the McLaren was faster for most the season, in 2006 the Ferrari was also faster for 2/3 of the season... well, Bridgestone was better).

We have never seen Alonso in the best car for a complete season. So people judge Alonso for what he seems capable of doing with a not superior car than the other 'top guns' of the field.


Well, you could claim the same about Hakkinen. This is also favorite excuse used by Hamilton and Button fanboys, and by Kimi fanboys (most gave up after 2008. though :) )

Point is, you cannot decouple driver from a car just like that. If one driver is seemingly getting bad cars his whole career then you have to wonder if he is really that good. And if one driver is constantly in a dominant car or car capable for winning then you have to ask yourself is he really that lucky? I get smacked a lot for this by many drivers fans because most use the car as excuse for their hero results. That's why for me results tell majority of story, not the whole story - but majority.

#1178 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 13:13

doesn't alter the fact I stated.

sure it does.

#1179 Ferrari2183

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 13:24

All I'm saying is that he made quite a few mistakes in the first part of 2010, and without those mistakes he could have won the championship. Yes, the Red Bull was much faster, but then Vettel fans emphasise the unreliability he had, etc. As I have said many mistakes, I am a big Alonso fan, I think he is the best driver on the grid when all things are considered, but I really can't stand blind fanaticism of any driver - whether it's Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel or anyone else. All these guys are human, they make mistakes, and I don't see any evidence to suggest any driver in F1 right now is head and shoulders above the rest - I agree that Alonso is the best, but it's not by a big margin and he is not the flawless god some posters here try to portray him as.

I agree with everything you've said here.

Alonso's early 2010 campaign (until the German GP) was riddled with errors whether it be driver, team or both.

Australia - Incident with Button (I blame Button more than Alonso in this incident). This I believe actually cost him the race win.
Malaysia - Going out in Q1 (Team/driver mistake).
Monaco - Driving incident which meant he couldn't take part in qualifying. Big mistake this one, as he would have been challenging for the win.
Canada - Got caught out in traffic (Not a major mistake but a mistake none-the-less). The McLaren's were ultimately faster and they got the result.
Great Britain - Not giving the place back when he should (Team/driver mistake). Another huge error, mega points lost here considering Vettel had issues and the McLaren of Hamilton finished second. Ferrari had a faster car that weekend if only marginally.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 18 July 2012 - 13:26.


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#1180 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 14:19

alonsos 2011 mistakes:
china gp (false start) costed him 1 place
monaco gp (accident in fp3: ferrari was not not a winning car, but he could have drove for a podium
silverstone gp overtaking and not giving place back, costed him some places. but the late call by the stewards costed him even a top 10 finish.
spa: accident with a damaged car (after barichello hit him)

as already pointed out: the things he could have controlled kept him in the title fight (even with some small errors), the things he couldnt have controlled (some stewards decisions + e.g. last race strategy) lost him the title.

Edited by zk12, 18 July 2012 - 14:20.


#1181 SirRacer

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 14:44



Good fight between two clever drivers

Perez surrended at the end when he didn't put a fight in the straight, he probably didn't want to lose more time in that fight

#1182 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 14:48



Good fight between two clever drivers

Perez surrended at the end when he didn't put a fight in the straight, he probably didn't want to lose more time in that fight

awesome footage, thanks :up:

#1183 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 14:57



Good fight between two clever drivers

Perez surrended at the end when he didn't put a fight in the straight, he probably didn't want to lose more time in that fight


Well it was DRS overtake so there was nothing Perez could have done.

#1184 SirRacer

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 15:08

Well it was DRS overtake so there was nothing Perez could have done.

Yes he could have tried defending the inside. He didn't try because he knew that position was lost anyway and the only thing he would do is lose more time to the people behind.

#1185 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 15:17

Well it was DRS overtake so there was nothing Perez could have done.

and this footage was not all about the overtake in the end. it was also about a very nice and clean battle that went on for almost a lap.

#1186 prty

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 16:09

Alonso about Vettel:

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=CEzqCcF2mps

#1187 zk12

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 16:16

Alonso about Vettel:

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=CEzqCcF2mps

breaking news?
wait: this is already half a year old
so why have you posted that?

Edited by zk12, 18 July 2012 - 16:16.


#1188 prty

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 16:25

breaking news?
wait: this is already half a year old
so why have you posted that?


It was posted in another forum a day or two ago and hadn't seen it before. So there are maybe more people in that same situation, so :wave:

#1189 Skinnyguy

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 16:49

Alonso about Vettel:

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=CEzqCcF2mps


With hindsight, even if it´s not what he meant, Alonso is totally right. Vettel isn´t on the same level than Lewis, he´s on a superior level, both in current shape and career wise.

#1190 SirRacer

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 20:42

With hindsight, even if it´s not what he meant, Alonso is totally right. Vettel isn´t on the same level than Lewis, he´s on a superior level, both in current shape and career wise.

I love Vettel fans getting cocky because of last two years. But the truth is that he won't always have a dominant car even if Newey is there, then Vettel won't seem that good compared to Hamilton (not to mention Alonso...)

#1191 MP422

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 20:48

I love Vettel fans getting cocky because of last two years. But the truth is that he won't always have a dominant car even if Newey is there, then Vettel won't seem that good compared to Hamilton (not to mention Alonso...)



I agree, His second wdc imo wasn't very impressive... blah mega car. 2010 he did good though.

#1192 Skinnyguy

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 20:53

I love Vettel fans getting cocky because of last two years.



Where are them? I can´t see them. :confused:

But the truth is that he won't always have a dominant car even if Newey is there, then Vettel won't seem that good compared to Hamilton (not to mention Alonso...)


Breaking news: Vettel didn´t born inside a Newey designed UFO in 2010. He was racing in F1 as early as 2007. His first full season in a midfield car was at least as impressive as Alonso´s 2003 or Lewis´ 2009, so we already know "how will he look". :rolleyes:


#1193 garoidb

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 21:10

Breaking news: Vettel didn´t born inside a Newey designed UFO in 2010. He was racing in F1 as early as 2007. His first full season in a midfield car was at least as impressive as Alonso´s 2003 or Lewis´ 2009, so we already know "how will he look". :rolleyes:


Those cars were designed by Newey too.

http://en.wikipedia....Toro_Rosso_STR2

#1194 Vesuvius

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 21:16

I love Vettel fans getting cocky because of last two years. But the truth is that he won't always have a dominant car even if Newey is there, then Vettel won't seem that good compared to Hamilton (not to mention Alonso...)


He is as good as they are and will only be better when he gets more experience.

The guy already shined with BMW and ToroRosso...Ascanelli who has worked with Senna and Alonso did compare Vettel to Senna.

Edited by Vesuvius, 18 July 2012 - 21:18.


#1195 Skinnyguy

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 21:23

Those cars were designed by Newey too.

http://en.wikipedia....Toro_Rosso_STR2


The TR? Yes, we all know, it was RB with Ferrari engine under the skin. Your point? :confused:

#1196 garoidb

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 21:26

The TR? Yes, we all know, it was RB with Ferrari engine under the skin. Your point? :confused:


It was a point of information.

#1197 Skinnyguy

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 21:31

It was a point of information.


Well, if it´s that, thanks, but there was no need. :up:

I thought it was a point of "cough... Newey built it so it should have won every race...cough". :rolleyes:

#1198 Raelene

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 01:48

MSC was WDC in a ferrari that was not as good as the car Alonso drove in 2010?
What year was that?



please read my post carefully... there is a word called "inherited" in it.... the car MSC inherited was not as good as the car Alonso had in 2010.

#1199 jstrains

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 03:31

To use Alonso's sentence after losing, this is motor racing, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose... it makes no sense to cry over spilt milk. Seasons 2007 and 2010 ended like they ended, but he is only 30 and I believe that he still will be racing for a long time.

The fact that some people are saying that he is the best now and maybe of all times comes not for nothing. These people are involved in F1 for years and they know what they are seeing. If they had to drive cars without all the electronics and aerodynamics like Senna etc. did, I am sure Alonso would be top, but unfortunately the car is nowadays more important than the driver. Can you imagine winning anyone after dropping to the last position for whatever reason during the race and then win after an amazing drive? Not today because the differences between the top cars are minimal, sometimes you can hardly overtake and you have to save the tyres.

Let's wish him good luck and car for the rest of the carrier so that he can turn his hard trying into deserved titles. At least one with Ferrari... in the meantime enjoy his driving, winning and that he is happy!
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#1200 STIGG

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:03

To use Alonso's sentence after losing, this is motor racing, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose... it makes no sense to cry over spilt milk. Seasons 2007 and 2010 ended like they ended, but he is only 30 and I believe that he still will be racing for a long time.

The fact that some people are saying that he is the best now and maybe of all times comes not for nothing. These people are involved in F1 for years and they know what they are seeing. If they had to drive cars without all the electronics and aerodynamics like Senna etc. did, I am sure Alonso would be top, but unfortunately the car is nowadays more important than the driver. Can you imagine winning anyone after dropping to the last position for whatever reason during the race and then win after an amazing drive? Not today because the differences between the top cars are minimal, sometimes you can hardly overtake and you have to save the tyres.

Let's wish him good luck and car for the rest of the carrier so that he can turn his hard trying into deserved titles. At least one with Ferrari... in the meantime enjoy his driving, winning and that he is happy!
Posted Image


:up: Great photo! Was that Korea '10?