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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#1851 phil1993

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:57

Predicting the weather more than an hour in advance in Spa is useless. Showers can crop up anywhere.

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#1852 JdB

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:54

Predicting the weather more than an hour in advance in Spa is useless. Showers can crop up anywhere.


Predictions of rain usually always come true ...  ;)

#1853 BruisedLee

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:59

Just came across an interesting read from last year about Alonso:

http://www.talkingab...-hate.html#more

I happen to agree on everything except Hamilton's immediate pace. I remember him having an immediate pace only over one lap and a race pace that improved over the course of 2007. OT anyway.

If it has been posted before, let me know and then I will delete it.

Edited by BruisedLee, 21 August 2012 - 12:00.


#1854 jeze

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:32

In my opinion seeing Alonso vs Massa has put Piquet's performance at Renault in a different light. He wouldn't be outdriven by the likes of Maldonado IMHO.

#1855 PretentiousBread

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 13:58

Posted Image


This is actually a decent issue of F1 Racing, some interesting articles for once. I'd definitely recommend it for any Alonso fans.

#1856 Fallout

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 15:31

Jinxing is a funny business. It doesn't work unless you really meant and truly believed what you just said. Even then, someone else might be saying the opposite of what you're saying and cancels out your jinx.

Ok, now I have become totally irrational.

:lol:

Oh, but I meant it! There is simply no way he could lose it ... but as we all know there's a certain Finn on the grid who likes to steal championships!

Naw, seriously though I really believe it's between Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton this year and I look so much forward to that last race in Brazil, where we shall have another epic showoff between the three drivers who have managed to create more discussions, both good and bad, than anyone else the last 5 years!

#1857 Outsider

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 15:41

In my opinion seeing Alonso vs Massa has put Piquet's performance at Renault in a different light. He wouldn't be outdriven by the likes of Maldonado IMHO.

i said that already a year ago that Piquet wouldn't suck as much as Massa does now.

Edited by Outsider, 21 August 2012 - 15:41.


#1858 BruisedLee

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 16:01

Oh, but I meant it! There is simply no way he could lose it ... but as we all know there's a certain Finn on the grid who likes to steal championships!

Naw, seriously though I really believe it's between Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton this year and I look so much forward to that last race in Brazil, where we shall have another epic showoff between the three drivers who have managed to create more discussions, both good and bad, than anyone else the last 5 years!

By the look of things, I would add Webber and Vettel to the mix.

#1859 kosmos

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:22

Alonso happy to ignore cirtics

Fernando Alonso insists he is not fussed about his image in some sections of the media and says occasional negative stories are to be expected.

Following a troubled year at McLaren alongside Lewis Hamilton in 2007, Alonso received some negative press in British papers, but when asked by Top Gear Magazine how he felt about being cast as a "pantomime villain", the Ferrari driver said he was unconcerned.

"I don't care," he said. "It's normal. When you're fighting other drivers from that country, it's normal that this sort of thing would happen. It happened in Germany, too. Everything was fine until I was competitive and fighting Michael [Schumacher]. Then the Germans were fine again until [Sebastian] Vettel arrived, and now I'm the bad guy again."

Alonso added that he has to two separate characters; one in Formula One as a driver and one for his private life.

"It [the stories] is always about Alonso the driver. Never Fernando the person. Because they don't know me. I know that Alonso the driver exists in a kind of fake world. Alonso the driver will be there for 12 or 14 or whatever years. Fernando the person is for the rest of my life."

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/86708.html


As we already know, he doesn't care about the BS created by the media.

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#1860 Raelene

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:39

I agree with this

Alonso added that he has to two separate characters; one in Formula One as a driver and one for his private life.

"It [the stories] is always about Alonso the driver. Never Fernando the person. Because they don't know me. I know that Alonso the driver exists in a kind of fake world. Alonso the driver will be there for 12 or 14 or whatever years. Fernando the person is for the rest of my life."


That definately applies for me.

I also think it applies for MSC. Whenever someone is sucessful, the detractors come out..and get confused about the "professional" person and the real person

#1861 whoisjohngalt

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:48



:lol:

#1862 as65p

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 16:03



:lol:


:lol:

But my boy is currently five, so I'm conditioned to not look at such footage entirely light-hearted. He really is in pain, I can tell you. Objectivity and perspective don't feature at that age.

#1863 puxanando

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 18:12


I can feel very well with this little boy! :up:


#1864 RedOne

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 18:46



:lol:


I wish we could get this video to Alonso through twitter or something lol

#1865 DonaldDuck

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 19:44

Button seems to be quite anti-Alonso at the moment. Its his 3rd or 4th comment trying to downplay his form this season.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/86653.html

Poor chap, doesn't realize that nothing gets to Alonso.


I dont think Button is saying anything incorrect ? Alonso does not have the fastest car anymore, it might not rain in Belguim for sure, and Lewis Hamilton might have the lady luck singing with him. The Lotus will have a faster car, Kimi has a penchant for the track. And then there is the Red Bull. 5th or 6th would do good for Fernando. He will lead the championship in Monza, albeit the lead will cut down by 10-15 points. I dont find surprises springing out yet.

#1866 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 19:55

I dont think Button is saying anything incorrect ? Alonso does not have the fastest car anymore,


I gather you mean he had the fastest car in the first part of the season? :rotfl:

it might not rain in Belguim for sure, and Lewis Hamilton might have the lady luck singing with him. The Lotus will have a faster car, Kimi has a penchant for the track. And then there is the Red Bull. 5th or 6th would do good for Fernando. He will lead the championship in Monza, albeit the lead will cut down by 10-15 points. I dont find surprises springing out yet.


Why do you assume that everyone else will progress, but Ferrari's development will stand still? Of course everything can happen, but it's more likely that everything will roughly stay as it is rather than any huge upheaval to happen. Of course JB has a reason, he hopes that things will change, and hope changes perspective.

#1867 puxanando

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 20:28

I wish we could get this video to Alonso through twitter or something lol

I send it to him..... :)

#1868 DonaldDuck

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 20:32

I gather you mean he had the fastest car in the first part of the season? :rotfl:



Why do you assume that everyone else will progress, but Ferrari's development will stand still? Of course everything can happen, but it's more likely that everything will roughly stay as it is rather than any huge upheaval to happen. Of course JB has a reason, he hopes that things will change, and hope changes perspective.


What you dont gather is that he had the fastest package in the following circumstances:

1. Malaysia race Day (post rain)
2. Silverstone Qualifying
3. Hockenhiem Qualifying

And also, the two pole positions, with a competitive and a race winning car which it was, won. I hope you read what Fry has said about the team's wet weather advantage. Please gather that much information.

I assumed Ferrari will not stand still. But I know they will not have the fastest package. Just as much as my assumptions are backed by the first half and your initial statement, let us not be afraid to look into history and see that ferrari seldom gave Alonso the undoubtedly fastest car to win. It has been so long that the last time he entered into a race "knowing" he has the fastest package was in Mclaren. And he failed to win the championship there also. So now, with a competitive race winning car but not the outright dominating machine, how much chance does he have ? Not much.

The point is simple. He should leave Ferrari as soon as possible. He will not win a championship until he brings his own team like Schumi did.

#1869 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 20:59

What you dont gather is that he had the fastest package in the following circumstances:

1. Malaysia race Day (post rain)
2. Silverstone Qualifying
3. Hockenhiem Qualifying

And also, the two pole positions, with a competitive and a race winning car which it was, won. I hope you read what Fry has said about the team's wet weather advantage. Please gather that much information.


:rotfl: Great, he had the fastest car out of 9 and the fastest car in 2 qualis. I agree. Why is it so unlikely that he might have the fastest car in 1 race of the remaining season?

I assumed Ferrari will not stand still. But I know they will not have the fastest package.


You know? And even if they don't, he leads the WDC despite not having the fastest car in the first half. Why will the second half be different?

Just as much as my assumptions are backed by the first half and your initial statement, let us not be afraid to look into history and see that ferrari seldom gave Alonso the undoubtedly fastest car to win. It has been so long that the last time he entered into a race "knowing" he has the fastest package was in Mclaren. And he failed to win the championship there also. So now, with a competitive race winning car but not the outright dominating machine, how much chance does he have ? Not much.

The point is simple. He should leave Ferrari as soon as possible. He will not win a championship until he brings his own team like Schumi did.


OK :drunk:


#1870 DonaldDuck

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 21:20

:rotfl: Great, he had the fastest car out of 9 and the fastest car in 2 qualis. I agree. Why is it so unlikely that he might have the fastest car in 1 race of the remaining season?



You know? And even if they don't, he leads the WDC despite not having the fastest car in the first half. Why will the second half be different?



OK :drunk:


He cant be riding on other people's mistakes and his own luck for ever, can he? Also, a competitive race winning car is all you need to win races when you find yourself at the right place. Other times, singing on the podium is enough, and you can achieve by being a decent driver. Ferrari post the in season test has been a consistently competitive care capable of winning and reaching podiums.

#1871 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 22:33

He cant be riding on other people's mistakes and his own luck for ever, can he? Also, a competitive race winning car is all you need to win races when you find yourself at the right place. Other times, singing on the podium is enough, and you can achieve by being a decent driver. Ferrari post the in season test has been a consistently competitive care capable of winning and reaching podiums.


Sorry, I've totally lost track of what you are arguing for or against.

Are you saying that Button is correct, and that the other cars - which JB seems to think are fundamentally faster but were hampered by circumstance - will take their rightful place a the top, and therefore Alonso will fall back? And that Alonso should leave Ferrari because they recently don't provide the fastest cars?

Or are you saying that the Ferrari was very quick in the latter part first half of the season, a continuation of which may be all Alonso needs to win the WDC?

I seem to see both kinds of statements in your latest three posts, and they appear to be contradictory. What's the point you are trying to make?

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 August 2012 - 07:12.


#1872 RedOne

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:05

I send it to him..... :)


:up: Not that he needs extra motivation to win Spa but I'm sure it would be a nice boost :)

Edited by RedOne, 23 August 2012 - 01:05.


#1873 FirstWatt

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:44

[...]So now, with a competitive race winning car but not the outright dominating machine, how much chance does he have ? Not much.

The point is simple. He should leave Ferrari as soon as possible. He will not win a championship until he brings his own team like Schumi did.

Wow.
If there is a driver which is able to win the championship without "the outright dominating machine", then it is in fact Alonso.
Kimi and Lewis might be able to do so too, but I don't see anyone else.

#1874 kosmos

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:04

Finally got the F1 racing magazine, good stuff. The interview is a little weak, it's done by readers of the magazine. They also have a panel of experts talking about his strong and week points, it looks like the general feeling it's that he is the best in races but slighty below Vettel/Hamilton in qualifying, but not all of them agree in that point either.

If you can, buy it, it's a good read.

Edit: The mods removed a tiny tiny portion of the magazine content when they already told me that it's ok to put something to grab attention toward the full content (aka buy the magazine).

Edited by kosmos, 23 August 2012 - 10:22.
Copyright infringement (again!)


#1875 BruisedLee

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:32

Finally got the F1 racing magazine, good stuff. The interview is a little weak, it's done by readers of the magazine. They also have a panel of experts talking about his strong and week points, it looks like the general feeling it's that he is the best in races but slighty below Vettel/Hamilton in qualifying, but not all of them agree in that point either.

If you can, buy it, it's a good read.

Thanks for sharing! :up:

#1876 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:44

Sorry, I've totally lost track of what you are arguing for or against.

Are you saying that Button is correct, and that the other cars - which JB seems to think are fundamentally faster but were hampered by circumstance - will take their rightful place a the top, and therefore Alonso will fall back? And that Alonso should leave Ferrari because they recently don't provide the fastest cars?

Or are you saying that the Ferrari was very quick in the latter part first half of the season, a continuation of which may be all Alonso needs to win the WDC?

I seem to see both kinds of statements in your latest three posts, and they appear to be contradictory. What's the point you are trying to make?


Read in detail. You missed the point probably. Its clear that they have fallen back, and this is what I am saying. At least thats what you can guess from the last race. I have maintained the same line of thought, may be you understood something else.

#1877 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:48

Read in detail. You missed the point probably.


Yeah that's what I said. Might have something to do with your incoherent statements

Its clear that they have fallen back, and this is what I am saying. At least thats what you can guess from the last race. I have maintained the same line of thought, may be you understood something else.


QED

#1878 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:49

Wow.
If there is a driver which is able to win the championship without "the outright dominating machine", then it is in fact Alonso.
Kimi and Lewis might be able to do so too, but I don't see anyone else.


Can I have an instance as to when did Alonso win with a car which was not outright dominating at any point of time during a season ? 2005, begining he was the fastest and most reliable. Same as 2006.

#1879 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:53

Can I have an instance as to when did Alonso win with a car which was not outright dominating at any point of time during a season ? 2005, begining he was the fastest and most reliable. Same as 2006.


Um, Valencia 2012?

EDIT: Oh, you don't mean "win when the car was not the fastest", but "win with a car which never, ever during a whole seasons was not the fastest car"? Never, because all the cars he won with were the fastest at least at some point, even if they may not have been in the races he won (like Valencia 2012).
That's a pretty weak argument though for the simple fact that the only cars that do not satisfy your criteria are the 2004 and 2009 Renaults and the Minardi, and requiring a win with those cars would be crazy, and for the fact that with the same argument you could rubbish any driver. When did Kimi win with a car that was never the fastest in a whole season? MS? LH? SV? AS? AP? MH? Your argument, again, makes no sense.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 August 2012 - 08:24.


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#1880 ICEBALL

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:18

Um, Valencia 2012?

EDIT: Oh, you don't mean "win when the car was not the fastest", but "win with a car which never, ever during a whole seasons was not the fastest car"? Never, because all the cars he won with were the fastest at least at some point, even if they may not have been in the races he won (like Valencia 2012).
That's a pretty weak argument though for the simple fact that the only cars that do not satisfy your criteria are the 2004 and 2009 Renaults and the Minardi, and requiring a win with those cars would be crazy, and for the fact that with the same argument you could rubbish any driver. When did Kimi win with a car that was never the fastest in a whole season? MS? LH? SV? AS? AP? MH? Your argument, again, makes no sense.



SPA 2009 :smoking:

#1881 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:22

SPA 2009 :smoking:


OK :) Edit: Oh but wasn't it the fastest car of those that didn't crash in this very race?

Edit: I guess we can count Suzuka Fuji 2008 for Alonso as well. Anyway, I think my point stands: generally, good drivers have good cars that at least once a season are likely to be the quickest car. Of course freak exceptions happen (edit: and no driver can mount a WDC challenge based on that)

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 August 2012 - 09:46.


#1882 Ferrari2183

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:28

Read in detail. You missed the point probably. Its clear that they have fallen back, and this is what I am saying. At least thats what you can guess from the last race. I have maintained the same line of thought, may be you understood something else.

If they have fallen back it is not by much and I believe that even without updates they will be very competitive around Spa. Hungary just didn't suit the car and it was pretty evident to those paying attention...

If you can, go and look how the car behaved in the last 2 turns. The car had massive understeer in those long corners and both drivers were struggling to maintain the tight line necessary to get on the power early enough on exit.

Not too long ago the doom mongers were out in full force after Vettel's performance in Valencia, look how that turned out. At least wait a few more races before jumping off a cliff.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 23 August 2012 - 09:29.


#1883 as65p

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:31

OK :) Edit: Oh but wasn't it the fastest car of those that didn't crash in this very race?

Edit: I guess we can count Suzuka 2008 für Alonso as well.


Fuji!  ;)

#1884 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:45

Fuji! ;)


Right. Edited original post now. Thanks

#1885 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:49

Um, Valencia 2012?

EDIT: Oh, you don't mean "win when the car was not the fastest", but "win with a car which never, ever during a whole seasons was not the fastest car"? Never, because all the cars he won with were the fastest at least at some point, even if they may not have been in the races he won (like Valencia 2012).
That's a pretty weak argument though for the simple fact that the only cars that do not satisfy your criteria are the 2004 and 2009 Renaults and the Minardi, and requiring a win with those cars would be crazy, and for the fact that with the same argument you could rubbish any driver. When did Kimi win with a car that was never the fastest in a whole season? MS? LH? SV? AS? AP? MH? Your argument, again, makes no sense.


What I mean is win with a competitive car, not the out right fastest car. Lets see, Hamilton in 2008 did not have the outright fastest machinary. MS in 1994 did not have the fastest machinaery for 70% of the season. Alonso's titles have come about in cars which have been utter dominant. Look at fishichella, a guy who couldnt handle the nuts of Ferrari 2009 ended up scoring and winning in 2005 and 2006. Just goes to show how could his Renaults were in those years. If Alonso had won in 2010, then you could say yes, he did it in not the outright fastest car. But even that year, mistakes made in the begining of the year duly cost him the title.

#1886 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:56

I noticed your sig now. Never mind.

Edit:

Can I have an instance as to when did Alonso win with a car which was not outright dominating at any point of time during a season ? (...)



What I mean is win with a competitive car, not the out right fastest car. (...)


I can't discuss like that.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 23 August 2012 - 10:47.


#1887 korzeniow

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 09:58

Can I have an instance as to when did Alonso win with a car which was not outright dominating at any point of time during a season ? 2005, begining he was the fastest and most reliable. Same as 2006.


Japan 2008

#1888 BestCarWins

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:16

Japan 2008


How about Hungary 2003 as well? The car was quick that weekend but it wasn't outright dominating. The wins this year you could add as well as the F2012 isn't outright dominating either.

Apologies if these have been already mentioned.

#1889 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:36

I noticed your sig now. Never mind.

Edit:





I can't discuss like that.

Those two sentences are written in separate context all together

#1890 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:42

Those two sentences are written in separate context all together


That's exactly my problem, for some reason I cannot distinguish in which context you are saying what. May be a problem with my brain or your writing. As I said, never mind, I'll just try not to answer your posts.

#1891 FirstWatt

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:20

Well...lets see.

1. You are judging Fisichella only on his few races with Ferrari? Bad argument.

2. Alonso got 78 times on the podium, if we do not consider Singapore 2008.
In 33 of these podium arrivals, he started outside the first three, or >40% of the cases.
Schumacher in 28 races out of 155, Hamilton 12 of 47, Vettel 4 out of 49.
Not able to score massively without the outright fastest car??

3. Alonso won 6 out of 29 times (again without Singapore 2008) starting OUTSIDE the first three.
Schumacher 7 out of 91, Ham 2 of 19, Massa and Vettel NEVER.

I cannot understand how you ever came to the conclusion that he needs an outright fastest car to win the WDC.
He has not this car this year and leads the championship after more than half of the races....isn't that speaking about itself?

#1892 Architrion

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:46

Well...lets see.

1. You are judging Fisichella only on his few races with Ferrari? Bad argument.

2. Alonso got 78 times on the podium, if we do not consider Singapore 2008.
In 33 of these podium arrivals, he started outside the first three, or >40% of the cases.
Schumacher in 28 races out of 155, Hamilton 12 of 47, Vettel 4 out of 49.
Not able to score massively without the outright fastest car??

3. Alonso won 6 out of 29 times (again without Singapore 2008) starting OUTSIDE the first three.
Schumacher 7 out of 91, Ham 2 of 19, Massa and Vettel NEVER.

I cannot understand how you ever came to the conclusion that he needs an outright fastest car to win the WDC.
He has not this car this year and leads the championship after more than half of the races....isn't that speaking about itself?


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
fantastic stats.... they speak by themselves

#1893 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 14:30

Well...lets see.

1. You are judging Fisichella only on his few races with Ferrari? Bad argument.

2. Alonso got 78 times on the podium, if we do not consider Singapore 2008.
In 33 of these podium arrivals, he started outside the first three, or >40% of the cases.
Schumacher in 28 races out of 155, Hamilton 12 of 47, Vettel 4 out of 49.
Not able to score massively without the outright fastest car??

3. Alonso won 6 out of 29 times (again without Singapore 2008) starting OUTSIDE the first three.
Schumacher 7 out of 91, Ham 2 of 19, Massa and Vettel NEVER.

I cannot understand how you ever came to the conclusion that he needs an outright fastest car to win the WDC.
He has not this car this year and leads the championship after more than half of the races....isn't that speaking about itself?


The above stats can also be interpreted that Alonso is a poor qualifier, who comes into his own and maximises the car's potential only in the race.

Nevertheless, Good post. That shows that Fernando does a good job by maximising his potential. But he has not won a championship in the past 6 years when he had a championship winning car two times out of those six years. Since he is so good at maximising, his mistakes in the early part of 2010 will always haunt him and Ferrari for the rest of their relationship by not being able to emulate Raikkonen.

#1894 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 14:33

That's exactly my problem, for some reason I cannot distinguish in which context you are saying what. May be a problem with my brain or your writing. As I said, never mind, I'll just try not to answer your posts.


I will try to be clearer in my subsequent posts. Pardon me if you can since I am new here, and assume that certain people will follow a certain line of thought and move forwards with it. Nevertheless, it is a learning curve, just like the teams were learning the tyres in the early part of the championship.

#1895 as65p

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 14:36

The above stats can also be interpreted that Alonso is a poor qualifier, who comes into his own and maximises the car's potential only in the race.

Nevertheless, Good post. That shows that Fernando does a good job by maximising his potential. But he has not won a championship in the past 6 years when he had a championship winning car two times out of those six years. Since he is so good at maximising, his mistakes in the early part of 2010 will always haunt him and Ferrari for the rest of their relationship by not being able to emulate Raikkonen.


Yeah, it's already too late to emulate Räikonnen in many ways. Too late for Alonso to become WDC in his first season with Ferrari, too late also for him to fade away and get beaten by Massa in his 2nd and 3rd season. Too late very soon to be kicked out by the 4th.

Just... too late. :smoking:



#1896 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 14:49

Yeah, it's already too late to emulate Räikonnen in many ways. Too late for Alonso to become WDC in his first season with Ferrari, too late also for him to fade away and get beaten by Massa in his 2nd and 3rd season. Too late very soon to be kicked out by the 4th.

Just... too late. :smoking:


Let him first win a championship with Ferrari. I am here, so are you. We will talk the day Alonso takes over the baton from Raikkonen. Until then, Ferrari has to make do with Kimi, their last World Champion. He is a hero Ferrari dont deserve right now, but they need his name coz he was their last champion. As far as getting beaten by Massa is concerned, you have quite a few posts, and I expected you to know why and what happened in 2008 post Monaco. I expected better than such a shoddy comeback. Nevertheless, its too late for you to brush up on hard reality and old facts, and also the story behind Alonso's arrival. Lets look forward to this season now.

#1897 FirstWatt

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 14:57

I like both Kimi and Alonso, for me they are the top of F1 these days. Kimi has similar stats like Alonso btw.... lots of wins and podiums while starting outside of the first three positions.

#1898 as65p

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 15:02

Let him first win a championship with Ferrari. I am here, so are you. We will talk the day Alonso takes over the baton from Raikkonen.


If you can assure me you won't have disappeared and reappeard as someone 'new' by then... fine. :D

Until then, Ferrari has to make do with Kimi, their last World Champion. He is a hero Ferrari dont deserve right now, but they need his name coz he was their last champion.


What makes you think Ferrari has any issues with Kimi as their last champion? Those issues only started when he couldn't repeat that form during the coming seasons. 2007 was perfectly fine.

As far as getting beaten by Massa is concerned, you have quite a few posts, and I expected you to know why and what happened in 2008 post Monaco. I expected better than such a shoddy comeback. Nevertheless, its too late for you to brush up on hard reality and old facts, and also the story behind Alonso's arrival.


How can you expect stuff, you just walked in, didn't you? :D

But you're right, I know what happened in 2008 and 2009. You can look it up too, in every half-decent online database of F1 results. The hard reality and old facts are all in there.

Lets look forward to this season now.


Good idea.


#1899 DonaldDuck

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 15:14

If you can assure me you won't have disappeared and reappeard as someone 'new' by then... fine. :D



What makes you think Ferrari has any issues with Kimi as their last champion? Those issues only started when he couldn't repeat that form during the coming seasons. 2007 was perfectly fine.



How can you expect stuff, you just walked in, didn't you? :D

But you're right, I know what happened in 2008 and 2009. You can look it up too, in every half-decent online database of F1 results. The hard reality and old facts are all in there.



Good idea.


He did repeat his 2007 form in 2008. Only when they changed his liking did he start to qualify behind the top runners, and that jeaopardized his races. Results are not enough, sometimes you need to lift the veil to see what happened behind the scenes, if yuoure wise enough to do that, that is.
I am not running away. I have recently joined, hopefully Ill enjoy it here. So lets look forward


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#1900 as65p

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 15:26

He did repeat his 2007 form in 2008. Only when they changed his liking did he start to qualify behind the top runners, and that jeaopardized his races. Results are not enough, sometimes you need to lift the veil to see what happened behind the scenes, if yuoure wise enough to do that, that is.


Hm, what happened to...

...hard reality and old facts...


... not so important anymore? :) At least you seem wise enough to change tack if required, just gotta try a little less obvious next time.

As for lifting the veil, why not. It would show that KR and FA had near identical first seasons at Maranello with early season mistakes, yet still being in the hunt at the last race. The real differences start there, in 2007 Ferrari arrived with the fastest car and an obedient Massa in Brazil and played it tactically perfect. In 2010 they had at best the joint 2nd fastest car in Abu Dhabi, Massa was nowhere and presumably sulking, and let's not start with the tactics during that race.

I am not running away. I have recently joined, hopefully Ill enjoy it here. So lets look forward


Sure.