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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#2151 Hanzo

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 18:27

Do you think we will have a cleaner start because what happened last week? I am sure the drivers will have that in mind at some point, but in the other hand there is always inevitable situations...

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#2152 Nonesuch

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 18:46

Fernando makes the comparison to 2006 himself on Twitter:

Año 2006, llegamos líderes a Monza, coche roto en q3, sanción, salgo el 10, abandono en la 1a chicane, motor roto, me lleva un comisario en moto al paddock. Fuimos campeones...;)

Año 2012, llegamos líderes a Monza, coche roto en q3, salgo el 10, el viernes rompo motor en la 1a chicane, me lleva el mismo comisario al paddock. Ojalá sea un buen año al final..;)))!


We can but hope!  ;)

#2153 Disgrace

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 18:52

Ferrari's 2006 race at Monza was great, Alonso's not so much. Let's hope we'll see a repeat of the former rather than the latter.;)

Disappointing result today, in any case. Ferrari seemed very confident even afterwards though, so I'm hoping a top 5 finish is possible tomorrow. Alonso will need Massa to take many points off of his direct competitors, and from third, Massa has the best chance he's had all year to do just that.


He overcame a car deficit and FIA championship intervention to run third before the engine blew in front of the ecstatic tifosi. He drove a great race.

#2154 topical

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 18:55

He overcame a car deficit and FIA championship intervention to run third before the engine blew in front of the ecstatic tifosi. He drove a great race.


I presume he was talking about the result (DNF) rather than Alonso's performance, which as you say was excellent (I think it was the "intervention" incident at this race that led to the notorious but in the circumstances understandable "as long as the car isn't red" comment to Renault after winning the title that year)

#2155 kosmos

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:28

A gigant mountain to climb today, let's hope everything goes ok and he has the chance to climb it, no matter if he can reach the top or he has to settle for the base camp.

#2156 Junky

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:58

Who said that Fernando has been unlucky this year? :lol:

Edited by Junky, 09 September 2012 - 12:59.


#2157 Jovanotti

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 13:17

I have to say, Fernando is surely working hard for his luck and is an amazing driver, but sometimes you can't help thinking that he is one lucky bastard...

#2158 kosmos

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 13:50

Amazing race, the first lap was stunning, true that he was lucky with Button DNF, but he was unlucky in SPA and yesterday in qualifying, so everything is even. People can cry all they want, but reliability is part of F1, the teams work on that, sometimes they get it right, sometimes not.

From 10 to 3, extending the lead, some good overtakes and making the tifosi happy on the podium, can't ask for more. But it's going to be hard, Hamilton and McLaren are very strong at the moment, maybe yesterday we had the car to get pole, but today the fastest car was the McLaren (not counting the Sauber "anomaly").

Edited by kosmos, 09 September 2012 - 14:11.


#2159 Hanzo

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:09

Consistent like a hammer. Shame about Spa and yesterday qualy, yet he increased his lead after this race.
Who would thought after the first race that we would be ENJOYING this much? Add to that all the "he is just lucky" comments and so far this season could not be sweeter :stoned:

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#2160 jeze

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:20

I have great respect for what Todt did for Ferrari, but the decision to sign Kimi over Alonso back then (2005) definitely cost the team a lot of money and the 2008 World Championship. I always thought of Alonso as the natural successor to Schumacher and was a bit confused that Kimi was signed - since Alonso always showed a level of consistency that Kimi never had at McLaren where he was fabulous one weekend and lacklustre the next. He did very well in 2007, but really should've been much further clear of Massa. Thinking about what Massa did in 2009 and how close the field was that year, a KERS-backed Alonso could've fought Button for the title that year too, but I don't think the car was enough to have won it.

A nice third place today. Still resigned to Hamilton winning the title though. Would be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm used to failure by now.

Edited by jeze, 09 September 2012 - 14:22.


#2161 Rentta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:22

Alonso : " we have people who do anything for red car " interesting :D

#2162 Disgrace

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:23

About as interesting as "you didn't build that."

#2163 ferrarijon123

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:38

Alonso now has the same amount of podiums as Ayrton Senna. 80!! Albeit with 29 more starts. :clap:

#2164 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:39

I have great respect for what Todt did for Ferrari, but the decision to sign Kimi over Alonso back then (2005) definitely cost the team a lot of money and the 2008 World Championship. I always thought of Alonso as the natural successor to Schumacher and was a bit confused that Kimi was signed - since Alonso always showed a level of consistency that Kimi never had at McLaren where he was fabulous one weekend and lacklustre the next. He did very well in 2007, but really should've been much further clear of Massa. Thinking about what Massa did in 2009 and how close the field was that year, a KERS-backed Alonso could've fought Button for the title that year too, but I don't think the car was enough to have won it.

A nice third place today. Still resigned to Hamilton winning the title though. Would be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm used to failure by now.

That has got to be biggest piece of bullcrap since ages. Please do show where Kimi was inconsistent at McL. He had a record number of technical DNFs yet still came within shouting distance of WDC. While you are at it could you elaborate what Flipper did in 2009? FA is a great driver but today showed that he is not infallibe. He lucked his way to podium (no reason to bring Spa here) with agreeably some merit but losing to Perez showed that even with the absolutely fastest car on the grid he cannot perform miracles. I back up the claim of having the fastest car by his own admission yesterday of losing the easiest pole of the season AND with the fact that a driver of Phil Massey's caliber qualified 3rd.

#2165 Rentta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:51

About as interesting as "you didn't build that."

So you didn't get my joke .

#2166 jeze

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:51

That has got to be biggest piece of bullcrap since ages. Please do show where Kimi was inconsistent at McL. He had a record number of technical DNFs yet still came within shouting distance of WDC. While you are at it could you elaborate what Flipper did in 2009? FA is a great driver but today showed that he is not infallibe. He lucked his way to podium (no reason to bring Spa here) with agreeably some merit but losing to Perez showed that even with the absolutely fastest car on the grid he cannot perform miracles. I back up the claim of having the fastest car by his own admission yesterday of losing the easiest pole of the season AND with the fact that a driver of Phil Massey's caliber qualified 3rd.


As for Kimi being inconsistent at McLaren it's my opinion and you are entitled to your opinion as well. But in 2005 he caused a championship-deciding retirement himself by flatspotting in Germany. That said he looked good, but Alonso was Schumacher-esque driving for Renault during the two seasons the car was good enough. Since Kimi won the 2007 title it was not a disastrous move, but even in 2009 Massa had the measure of Kimi on raw pace, being quite a few points clear of him prior to the accident. Then there came a few KERS tracks where Kimi did great results, so had Alonso driven for Ferrari that year (and not being hit by the spring in Hungary) I think he'd been third in the championship at worst.

Kimi has surprised me a bit this year it has to be said and he looks a much better driver than he ever was at Ferrari. That said, the Formula 1 with Pirelli tyres is probably more suited to a Kimi than let's say a Massa. He'd beat Felipe in the Ferrari this year but he wouldn't have won three races, since he hasn't won a single one yet in a car with much more downforce than the red ones.

#2167 BruisedLee

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:52

He lucked his way to podium.

Yeah, very lucky having a car failure in Q3. It could have been worse. Thanks for noticing.

#2168 mindmill

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:53

This is a thread about Fernando Alonso, the undisputable best active F1 driver and current championship leader. Don't insult this thread by mentioning much lesser drivers. If you want to talk about 3rd grade F1 drivers (why would you, tho?) there are other threads on this very board. Some suggestions:
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=173746
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=171273
You're welcome!




#2169 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:53

Yeah, very lucky having a car failure in Q3. It could have been worse. Thanks for noticing.

Thanks for being pedantic. With Jense not retiring he had no frikkin way of reaching the podium. That was what I meant.

#2170 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:56

This is a thread about Fernando Alonso, the undisputable best active F1 driver and current championship leader. Don't insult this thread by mentioning much lesser drivers. If you want to talk about 3rd grade F1 drivers (why would you, tho?) there are other threads on this very board. Some suggestions:
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=173746
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=171273
You're welcome!

Thank you for showing how great fanbois can really be. Freddie was good today but definitely not magic. Perez was way better than him - but Checo being so inconsistent that was just today.

#2171 meddo

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:56

Right now, I feel really sad that I¨ll never again see Alonso and Hamilton in the same team, driving the same equipment. They are both simply naturals, head above the rest, and only Alonsos maturity is currently the dividing factor. Great drive Fernando, yet again.

#2172 Creepy

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:58

Thanks for being pedantic. With Jense not retiring he had no frikkin way of reaching the podium. That was what I meant.


That's not luck, that's a team making a more reliable car and a driver making the most of it without "I cannot get grip" excuses.



#2173 kosmos

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:03

but losing to Perez showed that even with the absolutely fastest car on the grid he cannot perform miracles.


I guess you didn't get the fact that the tyres were a key point in Perez performance (not taking anything away from his driving), he could have catched Hamilton with more laps. But your are free to think that Alonso could have done something against a car that was +1 sec faster per lap.


#2174 BruisedLee

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:06

Thanks for being pedantic. With Jense not retiring he had no frikkin way of reaching the podium. That was what I meant.

:lol:

I now what you meant. That's why I reminded you of Q3. Try to quantify luck if you can:

Q3: He goes from a likely P1 or P2 to a P10.

Race: Thanks to Jensen, he recovers 1 position.

So he loses 8-9 positions due to car failure and 'lucks' 1 due to car failure.

At least you are right about him not being infallible, though still way more infallible than others.

Edited by BruisedLee, 09 September 2012 - 15:06.


#2175 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:06

I guess you didn't get the fact that the tyres were a key point in Perez performance (not taking anything away from his driving), he could have catched Hamilton with more laps. But your are free to think that Alonso could have done something against a car that was +1 sec faster per lap.

That wouldǘe been a miracle. FA was not able to hold Checo off so at best he did very well. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the car today - the team (includind the drivers) failed to capitalize that to the maximum. FA has on occasion done more than reasonably expectable but today was not one of those days.

Why is it so hard to accept that FA can be just very good insted of godlike?

#2176 1Devil1

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:09

He drove well today but he lost my respect all this crying over the team radio. I hope FIA introduces sanctions for asking for penalties over the team radio(just joking Alonso fans). I feel so embarrassed every time he does this. I started to become a little fan of Alonso. Things like that make it hard for me to sympathize with the driver

#2177 jeze

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:18

2010 Post-Monza (five races)

Vettel 93
Alonso 86
Hamilton 58
Webber 55
Button 49

Over eight races that would equal 10 points lost for Alonso.

2011 Post-Monza (six races)
Vettel 108
Button 103
Webber 91
Alonso 85
Hamilton 69

Over eight races that would equal 31 points lost for Alonso.

It's all about finishing races and no other driving starting to dominate right now.

The formbook (last eight races) looks like this:
Alonso 118
Räikkönen 92
Hamilton 89
Webber 86
Vettel 79

So at least the trend so far is pointing in the right direction :up:

But Hamilton can't start dominating and there is no room for complacency when it comes to car development. It certainly wouldn't hurt if Fernando was able to qualify top three every single race for the remainder of the season. There has to be more downforce added, simple as that.

#2178 kosmos

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:18

Why is it so hard to accept that FA can be just very good insted of godlike?


Nobody is saying anything about magic or godlike today, so it's everything on you, relax and enjoy :up:


#2179 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:41

I have to say, Fernando is surely working hard for his luck and is an amazing driver, but sometimes you can't help thinking that he is one lucky bastard...


Where is the luck in McLaren and RBR unable to build cars that don't break in the race? Reliability is part of the sport.

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#2180 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:44

That wouldǘe been a miracle. FA was not able to hold Checo off so at best he did very well. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the car today - the team (includind the drivers) failed to capitalize that to the maximum. FA has on occasion done more than reasonably expectable but today was not one of those days.

Why is it so hard to accept that FA can be just very good insted of godlike?


Damaged rear suspension and floor after the trip to the grass, no telemetry. You are right, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the car.
Edit: According to Massa, also unexpectedly high tyre deg on both cars.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 09 September 2012 - 15:47.


#2181 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:50

Damaged rear suspension and floor after the trip to the grass, no telemetry. You are right, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the car.
Edit: According to Massa, also unexpectedly high tyre deg on both cars.

So we just have accept everything at face value? The higher than expected tyre deg fits nicely to a slight team error. They should´ve known better.

Edited by Konsta, 09 September 2012 - 15:51.


#2182 fabr68

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:52

That wouldǘe been a miracle. FA was not able to hold Checo off so at best he did very well. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the car today - the team (includind the drivers) failed to capitalize that to the maximum. FA has on occasion done more than reasonably expectable but today was not one of those days.

Why is it so hard to accept that FA can be just very good insted of godlike?


Who cares? I take 15 points and a WDC lead increase over two DNFs



#2183 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:58

So we just have accept everything at face value? The higher than expected tyre deg fits nicely to a slight team error. They should´ve known better.


Really? OK so disregard that. [edit] It's weird that you want to disregard it though, since your argument was that nothing was wrong with the car, and so Alonso's driving allegedly lacked. But even if the high deg was a team error, it still counts as "something wrong with the car". And anyway, [/edit] he still went to the grass at 300 km/h, and possible damage from that cannot be as easily disregarded.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 09 September 2012 - 16:02.


#2184 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:23

Really? OK so disregard that. [edit] It's weird that you want to disregard it though, since your argument was that nothing was wrong with the car, and so Alonso's driving allegedly lacked. But even if the high deg was a team error, it still counts as "something wrong with the car". And anyway, [/edit] he still went to the grass at 300 km/h, and possible damage from that cannot be as easily disregarded.

I never said that FA´s driving lacked anything. He was very good today but compared to the expectations of godlike drives every single weekend - today was not such. FA was hailed Magic at Valencia but him winning was up to others retiring - he could not have overtaken SV for example on merit. Checo´s drive today (from 12th to 2nd) was at least as good. FA seems to a victim of his fiercest fans portraying him as the 2nd coming. I have no trouble ackowledging him as a top-class racer as he is but it seems that critisizing him has become a no-no. He cannot do wrong?

#2185 Creepy

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:29

I never said that FA´s driving lacked anything. He was very good today but compared to the expectations of godlike drives every single weekend - today was not such. FA was hailed Magic at Valencia but him winning was up to others retiring - he could not have overtaken SV for example on merit. Checo´s drive today (from 12th to 2nd) was at least as good. FA seems to a victim of his fiercest fans portraying him as the 2nd coming. I have no trouble ackowledging him as a top-class racer as he is but it seems that critisizing him has become a no-no. He cannot do wrong?


That we consider your critics unfair (since you said the car had nothing wrong even after the qualy problem, no telemetry on race-day, etc) doesn't mean we consider he's above crticism.

Taking things out of context as you do to look down on Alonso fans (which is like a fashion here) unresonably is completely unfair.

#2186 Hanzo

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:30

I have no trouble ackowledging him as a top-class racer as he is but it seems that critisizing him has become a no-no. He cannot do wrong?


Today he did nothing wrong, and nobody said he was a genius today. It is difficult to see your point.


#2187 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:51

I never said that FA´s driving lacked anything. He was very good today but compared to the expectations of godlike drives every single weekend - today was not such. FA was hailed Magic at Valencia but him winning was up to others retiring - he could not have overtaken SV for example on merit. Checo´s drive today (from 12th to 2nd) was at least as good. FA seems to a victim of his fiercest fans portraying him as the 2nd coming. I have no trouble ackowledging him as a top-class racer as he is but it seems that critisizing him has become a no-no. He cannot do wrong?


You wrote, "the team (includind the drivers) failed to capitalize that to the maximum." Drivers failing to capitalize on what is possible means that they were lacking, seems pretty obvious to me.
FWIW, I think that Perez was clearly the driver of the day.

#2188 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:56

You wrote, "the team (includind the drivers) failed to capitalize that to the maximum." Drivers failing to capitalize on what is possible means that they were lacking, seems pretty obvious to me.
FWIW, I think that Perez was clearly the driver of the day.

That I agree. To be pedantic, not winning on a car that you yourself claim to be fastest is not capitalizing on what is possible. Let´s drop this pickering however and agree that on some things we agree and some things we don't.

#2189 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:00

That I agree. To be pedantic, not winning on a car that you yourself claim to be fastest is not capitalizing on what is possible. Let´s drop this pickering however and agree that on some things we agree and some things we don't.


Well if the car is fastest, but you start from way back because of a technical prob in Q, and you end up not winning - this does not say anything about the driving at all. Alonso started from P10, made it to the podium despite a damaged car (contrary to your claims of "nothing wrong"). He did not do anything wrong. So yeah, it was a very good drive, but nothing magic. Like so many other posters replied to you, nobody here has claimed a magic drive nor said that Alonso's drive was better than Perez's, so like the other posters I don't know what your point is.

#2190 Afterburner

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:00

Tenth to third? Surely a good day for Ferrari fans. Enjoy it, guys. :)

#2191 PoleMan

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:03

So we just have accept everything at face value? The higher than expected tyre deg fits nicely to a slight team error. They should´ve known better.

You're right! :up:

It's much more interesting to just make sh*t up! :kiss:

Since your constant carping on here about Alonso is that he's unreasonably touted as "god-like," let me join you in acknowledging that Fernando Alonso is no god.


He's just a Demi-god, okay?  ;)

#2192 Massa

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:09

I have great respect for what Todt did for Ferrari, but the decision to sign Kimi over Alonso back then (2005) definitely cost the team a lot of money and the 2008 World Championship. I always thought of Alonso as the natural successor to Schumacher and was a bit confused that Kimi was signed - since Alonso always showed a level of consistency that Kimi never had at McLaren where he was fabulous one weekend and lacklustre the next. He did very well in 2007, but really should've been much further clear of Massa. Thinking about what Massa did in 2009 and how close the field was that year, a KERS-backed Alonso could've fought Button for the title that year too, but I don't think the car was enough to have won it.

A nice third place today. Still resigned to Hamilton winning the title though. Would be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm used to failure by now.



Did you watch 2003 season ?

Anyway, Alonso was MEGA in the first lap, really, i think he pass two car in the third sector on the first lap.

#2193 Sapphiresteel

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:11

That has got to be biggest piece of bullcrap since ages.


+1

#2194 jeze

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:18

Did you watch 2003 season ?

Anyway, Alonso was MEGA in the first lap, really, i think he pass two car in the third sector on the first lap.


He was consistent that year, but the 2004-2009 Kimi Räikkönen was someone you never knew which guy would turn up.

#2195 steferrari

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:20

As a Juventus fan, i'm very happy to see this hehe ! :clap:

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#2196 Sapphiresteel

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:23

But in 2005 he caused a championship-deciding retirement himself by flatspotting in Germany.


The Wdc was not decided in Germany but by the horrendous Mclaren reliability that gifted FA the championship.

Since Kimi won the 2007 title it was not a disastrous move


The true disaster is Alonso choking in 2010 and losing the wdc he should have won in the final race.

#2197 Konsta

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:28

He was consistent that year, but the 2004-2009 Kimi Räikkönen was someone you never knew which guy would turn up.

You keep telling that as some sort of fact. How about reading the quotes from people Kimi worked with. The "lack of motivation" has become an accepted truth despite the fact that there is nothing that it's based on. Kimi himself said that his 2009 season at SF was probably his best despite the less than perfest results.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/71373.html

Some comments from people he actually worked with - they paint a pretty different picture don't you think?

Luca Colajanni: With the press, Kimi is how he is. He is very honest – it’s hard to find a driver who admits to his mistakes as sincerely as Kimi does.

Stefano Domenicali: It has to be said also that Kimi is unbelievable. He’s so focused in his work. Nothing else than his work.

Martin Whitmarsh: I am a great admirer of Kimi and I can’t believe that he’s going to retire. People have created that speculation, and knowing Kimi a little bit, he’s not going to be fussed about correcting it. So it grows, doesn’t it? He’s a great world champion and in my opinion he’ll fancy his chances of winning a few more.

Alex Wurz: I always found him straight and direct – a very clean character who is often misunderstood. I think he does have a good focus. Because things aren’t going so well for him, you shouldn’t say he has lost focus. Kimi is still the fastest driver on the planet.

Heikki Kovalainen: Kimi is a really nice guy. He is very honest and fair and never gets involved in things that aren’t his business. People in F1 like him because what you see is what you get. He’s never been the chattiest guy in the world but that’s how he is. He’s got a really good sense of humor. I get on very well with him and he can be very funny. Whatever people say about him, he’s a very smart guy. I see things said about him and they make me smile, but he never gets involved in a war of words or anything. Sometimes, he says things in a clever way and it shows his intelligence.

Ross Brawn: I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team, car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the privacy of the team. His performance in the second half of the season was exceptional.

Steve Robertson: He wants to win his second world championship as much as he wanted his first. We’re all aware that to win two takes you to a different level – there are a lot of world champions, but not too many double world champions, so Kimi is just as eager to win another one. He’s just as motivated as ever before.

Chris Dyer: Kimi is more relaxed than Michael, and less concerned about technical details. If we turn up with a new part, Kimi will say, “Let’s throw it on and see what happens”; Michael would have wanted to know what the simulation tests said. What you see is what you get with Kimi: he never plays games. But on the track, he is very strong mentally. He is not affected by pressure.

Stefano Domenicali: He should know that behind him and together with him there’s a team that’s capable of exalting his talent, which, believe me, is unique in the world.

Andrea Stella: They say he’s a cold person but when he won the World Championship in 2007, at the last race, I saw him cry.

Felipe Massa: He’s not the kind of guy who easily gives you his friendship, he doesn’t offer intimacy. But with Räikkönen I had a very good relationship, very professional. We always helped each other at work. I concede him another thing: he was WDC in 2007, but in 2008 never changed his behaviour, he didn’t pretend anything.

Jonathan Noble: One team insider suggested that, looking at the data, Raikkonen has once again been doing things in the cockpit of a very difficult car that they can hardly believe. He is going beyond what, theoretically, the F60 would be capable of in normal hands as though the Finn’s last great act of defiance is to prove to his former bosses that they were wrong.

James Allen: His performances were astonishing. Even the Ferrari engineers don’t fully understand how he managed to get some of the podiums he did.

Luca Colajanni: Kimi is a very straightforward person. Of course, he isn’t the best lover of communication and interaction with the media, but he knows it’s part of his job and he does it with professionalism and respect.

Edited by Konsta, 09 September 2012 - 17:29.


#2198 jeze

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:28

The true disaster is Alonso choking in 2010 and losing the wdc he should have won in the final race.


You've already forgotten that Alonso was a second off Vettel on downforce tracks that season and still finished just four points adrift? Alonso and Hamilton both did something special that year.

2011 is the one year I was really impressed by Vettel and why I rate him as a top-three driver. In 2010 Red Bull almost bottled a car that had double downforce of the rest...

2007 and 2008 should've been easy titles for Ferrari, proved by the fact that Massa ran those titles close.

#2199 jeze

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:32

You keep telling that as some sort of fact. How about reading the quotes from people Kimi worked with. The "lack of motivation" has become an accepted truth despite the fact that there is nothing that it's based on. Kimi himself said that his 2009 season at SF was probably his best despite the less than perfest results.

http://en.espnf1.com...tory/71373.html

Some comments from people he actually worked with - they paint a pretty different picture don't you think?

Luca Colajanni: With the press, Kimi is how he is. He is very honest – it’s hard to find a driver who admits to his mistakes as sincerely as Kimi does.

Stefano Domenicali: It has to be said also that Kimi is unbelievable. He’s so focused in his work. Nothing else than his work.

Martin Whitmarsh: I am a great admirer of Kimi and I can’t believe that he’s going to retire. People have created that speculation, and knowing Kimi a little bit, he’s not going to be fussed about correcting it. So it grows, doesn’t it? He’s a great world champion and in my opinion he’ll fancy his chances of winning a few more.

Alex Wurz: I always found him straight and direct – a very clean character who is often misunderstood. I think he does have a good focus. Because things aren’t going so well for him, you shouldn’t say he has lost focus. Kimi is still the fastest driver on the planet.

Heikki Kovalainen: Kimi is a really nice guy. He is very honest and fair and never gets involved in things that aren’t his business. People in F1 like him because what you see is what you get. He’s never been the chattiest guy in the world but that’s how he is. He’s got a really good sense of humor. I get on very well with him and he can be very funny. Whatever people say about him, he’s a very smart guy. I see things said about him and they make me smile, but he never gets involved in a war of words or anything. Sometimes, he says things in a clever way and it shows his intelligence.

Ross Brawn: I was particularly pleased for Kimi because he struggled a little at the beginning to adapt to the new team, car and particularly the Bridgestone tyre characteristics. What impressed me was that he worked with his engineers, understood the issues, got on top of the situation and importantly and in the style of Michael, he did it in a quiet way within the privacy of the team. His performance in the second half of the season was exceptional.

Steve Robertson: He wants to win his second world championship as much as he wanted his first. We’re all aware that to win two takes you to a different level – there are a lot of world champions, but not too many double world champions, so Kimi is just as eager to win another one. He’s just as motivated as ever before.

Chris Dyer: Kimi is more relaxed than Michael, and less concerned about technical details. If we turn up with a new part, Kimi will say, “Let’s throw it on and see what happens”; Michael would have wanted to know what the simulation tests said. What you see is what you get with Kimi: he never plays games. But on the track, he is very strong mentally. He is not affected by pressure.

Stefano Domenicali: He should know that behind him and together with him there’s a team that’s capable of exalting his talent, which, believe me, is unique in the world.

Andrea Stella: They say he’s a cold person but when he won the World Championship in 2007, at the last race, I saw him cry.

Felipe Massa: He’s not the kind of guy who easily gives you his friendship, he doesn’t offer intimacy. But with Räikkönen I had a very good relationship, very professional. We always helped each other at work. I concede him another thing: he was WDC in 2007, but in 2008 never changed his behaviour, he didn’t pretend anything.

Jonathan Noble: One team insider suggested that, looking at the data, Raikkonen has once again been doing things in the cockpit of a very difficult car that they can hardly believe. He is going beyond what, theoretically, the F60 would be capable of in normal hands as though the Finn’s last great act of defiance is to prove to his former bosses that they were wrong.

James Allen: His performances were astonishing. Even the Ferrari engineers don’t fully understand how he managed to get some of the podiums he did.

Luca Colajanni: Kimi is a very straightforward person. Of course, he isn’t the best lover of communication and interaction with the media, but he knows it’s part of his job and he does it with professionalism and respect.


The 2012 Kimi does a much better job than the one who drove for Ferrari that has to be said. He also seems more motivated than at Ferrari where he seemed more fussed about the pay-check than digging really deep. I also think the Formula 1 with no refuelling and with sensitive tyres are better suited to Kimi than the 2009 version of the sport. But comparing a driver that got beaten by Massa on points (2007-Hungary 2009) to the driver that still could end Felipe's F1 career is a bit over the top.

I'm a Ferrari fan not a Fernando fan and I support the Ferrari drivers that deserve it. Michael and Fernando have been true greats for Ferrari, while I expected much more from Kimi, especially since the 2007 and 2008 cars had lots of downforce.

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#2200 Fontainebleau

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:34

The Wdc was not decided in Germany but by the horrendous Mclaren reliability that gifted FA the championship.



The true disaster is Alonso choking in 2010 and losing the wdc he should have won in the final race.

So let me see if I get this: when Raikkonen has an under-performing team (unreliable car, poor strategy) he is never to be faulted, while the positives of the team (fastest car in the field) are to be overlooked and considered Raikkonen's doing (he is the fastest driver). While when Alonso has an under-performing team (car underperforming direct rivals for quite a bit of the season, poor strategic decisions) that should be considered him "choking" and if he manages to do anything well (winning a few races and being in the title hunt) it should be put down to either him having a superior car or just being very lucky. Is that the way you want us to see it?