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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#2351 camberley

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 18:14

Exactly!

Of course, we all hate damage limitation and not being able to fight for a pole/win, but it's Formula 1, and it's like this.

A lot of championships have been built like that. Schumacher just said that Fernando only has to manage his advance, and he's right.

Wait & see


Personally I'm not worried about Hamilton contending for the WDC - He can't handle the pressure and will cumulatively choke in the next few races. He & Button can play the spoiler towards the end of the championships in the sense by putting their cars in front of Alonso when they are practically out of the champiionship and driving the fastest car without pressure of the WDC race.

It is imperative for Ferrari to keep improving the car. The progress in this area hasn't been sufficient in the last few months

Vettel on the other hand is the most dangerous one. He has the driving skills, car and most importantly the mental fortitude to overcome the gap . Alonso needs to watch out for him and Kimi. Alonso is a match for Vettel, however he needs a car that is at least close to the RedBull. That said Alonso is in a great position right now and I am quietly confident that he will do it this year

Edited by camberley, 21 September 2012 - 18:19.


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#2352 jeze

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 22:36

Vettel winning and Fernando on the podium is good for our championship :up:

2003 was a really hard season for Ferrari, where the car was rarely faster than the Williams, yet Schumacher squeezed a championship out of that car. This one is probably be going right down to the wire. If Ferrari get a new improved floor I think Alonso will win it. If not... well I hate to say it but Hamilton or Vettel will probably get a run and well... destroy another year.




#2353 bmardini

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:14

Both Red Bull and Mclaren seem to be better at bringing speed to the car. Ferrari is certainly bringing update but its just slow going, they don't seem to be really happy with anything and nothing seems to be really making the car quicker.

That said, nowadays outright pace is not always what these guys are looking for, sometimes something that improves how the car consumes tires is worth much more than a 0.2s /lap quali advantage.

Alonso needs a win - minimum - in the remaining races.

I don't see it happening unfortunately. The car is a jack of all aces - but master at nothing.

#2354 topical

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:10

Alonso needs a win - minimum - in the remaining races.

I don't see it happening unfortunately. The car is a jack of all aces - but master at nothing.


I think a combination rain or Vettel breaking down or Hamilton crashing will give Alonso the chance for at least one more victory this year. I remain optimistic although that would very swiftly change if he were to DNF this weekend and either Vettel or Hamilton win.

#2355 kosmos

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:18

I think a combination rain or Vettel breaking down or Hamilton crashing will give Alonso the chance for at least one more victory this year. I remain optimistic although that would very swiftly change if he were to DNF this weekend and either Vettel or Hamilton win.


Personally I don't feel good when we have to rely in other DNFs, or extreme mix up in the guys reaching the podium or rain or even in Fernando pulling another one from his hat, I don't think he is going to win the title this way, I can see Hamilton and Vettel winning all the races till the end, Ferrari need to improve the car to the point that it can reach the podium by his own merit. We will have a clear picture after Korea, when we see what happen with the 37 points lead.

Edited by kosmos, 22 September 2012 - 08:27.


#2356 Arry2k

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:19

Personally I don't feel good when we have to rely in other DNFs, or extreme mix up in the guys reaching the podium or rain or even in Fernando pulling another one from his hat, I don't think he is going to win the title this way, I can see Hamilton and Vettel winning all the races till the end, Ferrari need to improve the car to the point that it can reach the podium by his own merit. We will have a clear picture after China, when we see what happen with the 37 points lead.


I agree with all the above. But don't you mean Singapore and not China?

#2357 kosmos

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:28

I agree with all the above. But don't you mean Singapore and not China?



Sorry I mean Korea, we have 37 points, after Singapore, Japan and Korea, we will have the real picture of the chances to win the title depending on the performance of the car or how big or small is the lead, if any.

#2358 Lights

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:00

The biggest worry for Alonso would be that either McLaren or Red Bull dominate until the end of the season. If either Vettel or Hamilton start to rack up wins they'll actually get closer, if they just win sporadically and share wins with teammates as well, it won't be such an issue as long as Alonso is always thereabouts. Don't forget that Vettel hasn't won since April and has only been on the podium twice since then... crazy if you think about it. Hamilton with McLarens recent form will be a tougher opponent the rest of the season. Red Bull has always suited Singapore because of their excellent exhaust system but they'll lose that advantage the rest of the season, it might not be bad for Alonso if Vettel wins this weekend if it keeps Hamilton away from the win.

#2359 garoidb

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:17

The biggest worry for Alonso would be that either McLaren or Red Bull dominate until the end of the season. If either Vettel or Hamilton start to rack up wins they'll actually get closer, if they just win sporadically and share wins with teammates as well, it won't be such an issue as long as Alonso is always thereabouts. Don't forget that Vettel hasn't won since April and has only been on the podium twice since then... crazy if you think about it. Hamilton with McLarens recent form will be a tougher opponent the rest of the season. Red Bull has always suited Singapore because of their excellent exhaust system but they'll lose that advantage the rest of the season, it might not be bad for Alonso if Vettel wins this weekend if it keeps Hamilton away from the win.


I agree. It would be best if neither Red Bull nor McLaren can establish dominance for the rest of the season. The points differences between the lower places are not as much, so Lewis coming third with Fernando fourth only costs three points, while coming second to Lewis costs seven. Obviously, a more competitive Red Bull could see Vettel or Webber coming in behind Lewis but ahead of Fernando, handing better gains to Hamilton.

A competitive Red Bull also could put Lewis under pressure to compete with Vettel for wins or positions, with the increased possibility of mishaps from the cockpit or the pit wall.

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#2360 Ravenak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:20

There also seems to be a trend developing, where Alonso is, basically, always on the podium, when the RBR and McLaren Boys often have a bad race.

So even if Vettel, Ham & co eat away 2, 3 or 5 points from FA race after race, they might just take a 25-0 in favour of Fernando at some point... :)

Edited by Ravenak, 22 September 2012 - 09:21.


#2361 Suntrek

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 12:31

I think all of these four can win even if the car is not the best, they have all done it in the past and will do in the future as well.

I don't understand why you are saying Kimi didn't shine or perform well in 2006, he totally crushed his team mates Montoya and De La Rosa and sometimes outqualified Montoya over a second and he was thought to be very fast over one lap.2006 car wasn't good enough for wins.

Vettel can win even without the best car, he drove one of the most fantastic weekends with an midfield car and dominated tähe monza weekend, it's not his fault that RedBull since then have done great cars but even then he has won races were RBR hasn't been the best car :)

All of these four drivers are extremelly talented,fast drivers who are close to each other in every area, differences are minimal, Fernando is the most complete of them at the moment.


Yes Kimi has always been fast over one lap, but one lap doesn't make a race.

Thing is that in race 2006 he even had a problem with de la Rosa. He did - of course - not perform as horribly as Montoya, thing is, they both at this point knew one of them would be out in 2007 because Alonso was coming. Susequently Montoya folded like a card house. And he was subsequently sacked. Course Kimi didn't do such a silly thing he just sulked a bit and moved on, and that's my point. Kimi was uncomfortable in Mclaren 2006 and he didn't perform his best by any stadards. But OTHOH Kimi is still here. Where is Montoya? There are books written about the Alonso/Hamilton dymanics in 2007 but I'd personally like to see a book written about the McLaren dynamics in 2006. Can't see that happening though. And all of this is of course OT.

Edited by Suntrek, 22 September 2012 - 13:35.


#2362 kosmos

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:12

Good qualifying, P5, no doubt his most repeated position ever!. Tomorrow is a race to survive, let's hope everything goes right and he don't loose more than 15 points to Hamilton but everything can happen.

#2363 Ravenak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:14

Good qualifying, P5, no doubt his most repeated position ever!.


Not quite yet :p

http://www.statsf1.c...ndo-alonso.aspx

#2364 kosmos

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:18

Not quite yet :p

http://www.statsf1.c...ndo-alonso.aspx



Almost there  ;) , Fernando said in the TV interview that there is a good difference between clean and drity side, so maybe he can get Button at the start, let's hope there is no rain that wash the track in the coming hours.

#2365 Lights

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:30

Not the qualifying Fernando needed. He really has to worry about Hamilton for the championship now. Vettel really disappointing, I don't think he's going to win another race this year.

#2366 ZooL

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:33

I think Alonso made a mistake in S1, look how slow it is. That mistake probably cost him P3.

#2367 Ravenak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:36

I think Alonso made a mistake in S1, look how slow it is. That mistake probably cost him P3.


I don't think so. He did a 28.8 and his absolute best has been 28.7, so he wouldn't have found the missing 3-4 tenths there to go P3 ;)

No regrets!

#2368 Bruce

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:39

Let's face it - with Maldonado sitting alongside Hamiilton on the front row, perhaps the second row isn't the most brilliant place to be....

:p

#2369 Ravenak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 15:06

Let's face it - with Maldonado sitting alongside Hamiilton on the front row, perhaps the second row isn't the most brilliant place to be....

:p


Indeed.

If only he could go and win the race, how fabulous would that be :drunk:

#2370 jstrains

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 15:30

Maldonado eliminates Hamilton, Vettel's alternator goes grilling and we grab up the victory :rotfl:

#2371 crespo

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 15:48

I am now, officially, extremely worried for Alonso's championship chances after this quali. Car is lacking pace, and I'm no longer sure we're in control of the WDC - barring a succesful upgrade package from Ferrari, Alonso will need lots of luck to retain this lead through the next threeish races. Could just be a Singapore thing, but that Macca is dominantly fast on all types of circuits. Worrying.

#2372 Ravenak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:05

I don't like being overoptimistic, but please stop whining and lamenting, this is sounding so lame.

And even if you're right, don't act so dramatic... have some honour for christ sake!

There are still +37 pts, the race tomorrow hasn't started, the situation is not terrible AND the next races could go another way.

And then again, even if you're still right about losing the championship, then it's just sport. And I'd rather have Hamilton's 2nd title than Vettel's 3rd.

Edited by Ravenak, 22 September 2012 - 16:06.


#2373 TifosiUSA

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:13

I don't like being overoptimistic, but please stop whining and lamenting, this is sounding so lame.

And even if you're right, don't act so dramatic... have some honour for christ sake!

There are still +37 pts, the race tomorrow hasn't started, the situation is not terrible AND the next races could go another way.

And then again, even if you're still right about losing the championship, then it's just sport. And I'd rather have Hamilton's 2nd title than Vettel's 3rd.


Dramatic? Just by saying it's over if they go on at the current rate? That's not being dramatic, that's facts big guy.



#2374 camberley

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:16

Relax guys - points are given on Sundays not Saturdays.

Alonso is the strongest driver in the field and this is a track he excels in. He will limit the damage and we will live to fight another day. He is still best placed to win the champioship and the most capable.

#2375 kosmos

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:17

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial

Fifth position to continue the average of this season in qualy..;))! Interesting race tomorrow, reliability, strategies..! It will be fun..


It will be fun for sure :smoking:

#2376 jstrains

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:27

Valencia started even worse and finished in a dream. Why not tomorrow? Fernando*s leg 45 minutes after the session

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#2377 Ravenak

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:41

Dramatic? Just by saying it's over if they go on at the current rate? That's not being dramatic, that's facts big guy.


I just can't stand moaning. But I understand that everybody needs to express their feelings, facts or no facts.

#2378 PoleMan

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:59

Alonso is always realistic, but expects the best. That is his attitude, which is why he's a two-time (Can I hear THREE?! :clap: ) WDC!

Imagine if his fans took on his calm and confident demeanor? :well:

FORZA FERRARI! FORZA FERNANDO!


"On race pace [we] normally improve," he said, "and I guess here will be the same.

"Saturdays is our weak point of the weekend, we are never able to extract the maximum from the car over one lap.

"But in the race I expect a good pace and I expect a little bit less [tyre] degradation can put us in a fighting position. But podium I think can be [the] maximum target.

"To finish in front of some of the contenders will be our aim and waiting for a better weekend."

Edited by PoleMan, 22 September 2012 - 17:08.


#2379 TifosiUSA

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 17:03

I just can't stand moaning. But I understand that everybody needs to express their feelings, facts or no facts.

I hear you, let's see what tomorrow brings.

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#2380 garoidb

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 17:36

I just can't stand moaning. But I understand that everybody needs to express their feelings, facts or no facts.


The fact is that Alonso has conceded 25 points to Hamilton in three races, one of which was a DNF for both of them. His gap is currently 37 points, with seven races to go (including tomorrow, where Hamilton has qualified on pole to Alonso's fifth).

#2381 DonaldDuck

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:03

I am now, officially, extremely worried for Alonso's championship chances after this quali. Car is lacking pace, and I'm no longer sure we're in control of the WDC - barring a succesful upgrade package from Ferrari, Alonso will need lots of luck to retain this lead through the next threeish races. Could just be a Singapore thing, but that Macca is dominantly fast on all types of circuits. Worrying.

The championship is gone from Alonso's hands. You can see it slowly moving out of his grasp. Tough times, I know. As long as Pat Fry makes such cars, then there is nothing which Fernando can do to stop himself from losing the title once again.

#2382 DonaldDuck

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:17

Vettel winning and Fernando on the podium is good for our championship :up:

Till how long will this trend continue that an X drive wins today, a Y driver wins tomorrow and thats good for our championship? There will come a time when all the contenders will close in right on Alonso's tail, then it would be interesting to see who Alonso favours. I am dissapointed for Fernando, but Pat Fry needs an axing!

#2383 jstrains

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:18

FA: "00:27h , still a lot of work for our mechanics..;)"

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Edited by jstrains, 22 September 2012 - 18:19.


#2384 aray

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:27

if everybody suffer from degradation,we will win tomorrow....:up:
but need to survive first 3 corners....


#2385 PinkZepStones

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:30

Think you guys are forgetting with i think 7 races left Hamilton still has to outscore Alonso by like 7 points per race, As soon as Alonso finishes ahead of Hamilton that becomes 13 points per race etc.

Hamilton also cannot afford to not win any more races as you can count on Alonso finishing at least somewhere around 10 points at every race.

Hamilton has to really dominate from now till Brazil and that is a tall order.

#2386 DonaldDuck

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:33

Think you guys are forgetting with i think 7 races left Hamilton still has to outscore Alonso by like 7 points per race, As soon as Alonso finishes ahead of Hamilton that becomes 13 points per race etc.

Hamilton also cannot afford to not win any more races as you can count on Alonso finishing at least somewhere around 10 points at every race.

Hamilton has to really dominate from now till Brazil and that is a tall order.

Hamilton has to outscore Alonso on an average 6 points per race, not 7. After tomorrow, the lead should get down to minimum 27 points, that is if Ferrarinando scores a podium. Otherwise take 24 points. Looking at the last three races, Hamilton has cut down the lead by 25 points. 25 points in two races actually, coz one race they both had DNF. thats 12.5 points per race. And you tell me its a tall order? Well yes it is, but championships arent won easily, you need to be the best, and right now Lewis is delivering the best.

#2387 PinkZepStones

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:39

Hamilton has to outscore Alonso on an average 6 points per race, not 7. After tomorrow, the lead should get down to minimum 27 points, that is if Ferrarinando scores a podium. Otherwise take 24 points. Looking at the last three races, Hamilton has cut down the lead by 25 points. 25 points in two races actually, coz one race they both had DNF. thats 12.5 points per race. And you tell me its a tall order? Well yes it is, but championships arent won easily, you need to be the best, and right now Lewis is delivering the best.




Considering i plucked 7 half out of the air with an educated guess id say reminding me its 6 like that is a bit pedantic, Lewis mighht be delivering the best and to be fair he has done pretty much all season, but ive never seen a Lewis season without him mucking up big time, coming from a fan this is.

It is going to swing either way, dont forget as soon as a quali session or race is wet, Alonso is going to win it, and looking at the races coming up thats good news for fernando fans.

#2388 garoidb

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:51

Yes Kimi has always been fast over one lap, but one lap doesn't make a race.

Thing is that in race 2006 he even had a problem with de la Rosa. He did - of course - not perform as horribly as Montoya, thing is, they both at this point knew one of them would be out in 2007 because Alonso was coming. Susequently Montoya folded like a card house. And he was subsequently sacked. Course Kimi didn't do such a silly thing he just sulked a bit and moved on, and that's my point. Kimi was uncomfortable in Mclaren 2006 and he didn't perform his best by any stadards. But OTHOH Kimi is still here. Where is Montoya? There are books written about the Alonso/Hamilton dymanics in 2007 but I'd personally like to see a book written about the McLaren dynamics in 2006. Can't see that happening though. And all of this is of course OT.


OT but interesting. What was Ron Dennis thinking by signing Alonso (a reasonable move) and not addressing how this would affect Montoya and Raikkonen? Were either of them offered the opportunity to stay at any stage before it was too late? I had the impression that Montoya believed he would not be renewed, but if Kimi already had a deal at Ferrari this may not have been the case.

The longer term ramifications of all this is that McLaren have had unfulfilled and fractious relationships with Alonso, Raikkonen and now, it seems, Hamilton. These are three of the top four drivers in F1 today IMO and are 123 in the WDC right now. All this may affect McLaren's options is terms of drivers in the near future.

In 2012, Alonso may yet benefit from McLaren's driver management approach if Button is allowed to drive for himself for a few more races.

#2389 garoidb

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:53

Considering i plucked 7 half out of the air with an educated guess id say reminding me its 6 like that is a bit pedantic, Lewis mighht be delivering the best and to be fair he has done pretty much all season, but ive never seen a Lewis season without him mucking up big time, coming from a fan this is.


It is a very simple calculation, so if it was a guess it was hardly an educated one

#2390 jstrains

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 18:57

Have you seen this?



#2391 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 19:26

Hamilton has to outscore Alonso on an average 6 points per race, not 7. After tomorrow, the lead should get down to minimum 27 points, that is if Ferrarinando scores a podium. Otherwise take 24 points. Looking at the last three races, Hamilton has cut down the lead by 25 points. 25 points in two races actually, coz one race they both had DNF. thats 12.5 points per race. And you tell me its a tall order? Well yes it is, but championships arent won easily, you need to be the best, and right now Lewis is delivering the best.


I guess I don't need to watch the race tomorrow if you already know how it ends.

Edit: Yeah, and it's a tall order. If Ham has to outscore Alo by 6 points on average, that's more than the difference from P1 to P2, so even if Ham wins every race (very tall order) Alo just needs to be second (still a tall order, but less so than winning every race). If Ham is P2, then the difference to P3 is just 3 points, by far not enough.

Of course things can change quickly with an Alo DNF and Ham winning, but that goes the other direction just as well, and Ham can scarcely afford it, while Alo can, somewhat.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 22 September 2012 - 19:32.


#2392 Lights

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 19:42

Overreaction going on here, the Ferrari isn't that bad in the dry. It's just never the absolute best. In Valencia it certainly wasn't, Lotus and Red Bull were certainly faster. And all the other moments Alonso was on P1 in qualifying or race, it was affected by wet conditions in that session or one leading up to it. But in a lot of races, Spain, Montreal, Silverstone, Monza, it was at least close enough to be able to win in if the race went their way. Overall I think McLaren/Lotus/Red Bull have been stronger packages though, but Alonso shined through and made the most of almost everything.

#2393 D.M.N.

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 20:33

Posts removed, back on topic please.

#2394 OoxLox

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 20:56

Alonso's reaction to a critical qually failure in a massively competitive run-in:

"We need to concentrate on tomorrow. It will be a tough race for the gearbox, tyres, brakes, suspension and concentration also because the walls are very close. So it is a race we need to finish. If someone is quicker than us then we will congratulate them."

Respect :up:

#2395 Headspin

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 21:54

Maldonado eliminates Hamilton, Vettel's alternator goes grilling and we grab up the victory :rotfl:


:up: stay classy. No questions where you got this attitude from.

#2396 Nitropower

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 00:45

Well I'm sure Maldonado does not think the same some people do here. He has a very good chance of a strong result after a long way through the desert, he hasn't done big things since Spain and he is not the kind of guy scared to fight for position as Hamilton noticed not so long ago. This might influence the start of the race, might not, but one thing is sure: points are given after you see the checkered flag, and there is a long race tomorrow, with high probability of a SC, in a Mickey-Mouse circuit, so nothing's decided yet. We'll see.

#2397 kosmos

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 03:07

I'm more worried about what Vettel can do to Alonso if the overtake opportunity comes, than anything related to Maldonado or Grosjean.

#2398 RedOne

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:22

For sure he will defend hard that's why it's important to make up as many places at the start, Alonso went from 5th to second last time but it will be difficult to repeat but hopefully he atleast gets past Button before the first turn and then just see if he can slip stream someone in the following corners. Good luck Alonso

#2399 Lights

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:34

I'm more worried about what Vettel can do to Alonso if the overtake opportunity comes, than anything related to Maldonado or Grosjean.

Why is that? Vettel has so much more to lose.

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#2400 kosmos

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:50

Why is that? Vettel has so much more to lose.



I don't trust Vettel when is close racing Alonso, he always try to prove he is the macho, Monza was not his first stunt against Alonso.