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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#2451 Mandzipop

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:07

This is not the Kimi thread. Please stay on topic.

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#2452 jstrains

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:12

Tired and worried?

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#2453 bmardini

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:15

Unfortunately for you in practice his average was P3.7 in the races he finished (i.e., w/o Spa) for the whole season including the terrible car in the first races, and it was P2.8 for the races since Silverstone (again w/o Spa)


Unfortunately for ME? I want Fernando to win it as much as anyone. I was THERE in Abu Dhabi, in the paddock, when he made that fateful pitstop which cost him the title and almost left the circuit right there and then because it was so bloody apparent that he had just lost that championship with that one move.

And yes I can do the math as well as anyone. Fernando has outscored the rest of the field and has in terms of avg pts per race been phenomenal. But thats not the point - the point is on paper the Ferrari SHOULDN'T be on the podium and Fernando/pitcrew/strategy is having to make all the difference. When the gap is 0.2-0.3s, no problem. When the gap is 1s, its a problem.

Maybe the Singapore circuit (being as mickey mouse as it is) is a one-off, but its actually very similar to Yas (in terms of mickey-mouse-ness) and maybe India? That leaves Korea, Japan and the USA and Brazil. Will Ferrari be the quickest car anywhere? Possibly Japan or a wet race somewhere. Maybe Brazil.

TBH I could handle it if Hamilton won the WDC, he's been driving really well and he's a heck of a racer. I just don't think I could come to terms with a 3 on the trot Vettel WDC...

Edited by bmardini, 23 September 2012 - 19:19.


#2454 jstrains

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:17

You can have the fastest car but it is worth nothing if it breaks down too often. Let me remind you of words of dear Ron Dennis "To finish first, first you have to finish"




#2455 bspec

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:47

Fernando and Ferrari ...
Please wrap the title atleast 1 race before Brazil .... I don't have heart to watch title decided in last race .........

#2456 SCUDmissile

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:49

It isn't just Fernando. Schumi won his first title when the McLaren was a little faster in 2000. Then the floodgates opened. Back then the Ferraris were also renowned for their reliability in that age.

:cool:

Anyways, Suzuka next. Fernando has done well here for Ferrari, hope it can continue. I mean, the tyre hating tuck F150 came second and was catching button here last year. F2012 also suits this track very well IMO. They have said that tracks which require max downforce like Hungary and Singapore are their main weakness, and now no more of those. Suzuka has the type of corners the car likes, like Silverstone.

#2457 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 19:50

It isn't just Fernando. Schumi won his first title when the McLaren was a little faster in 2000. Then the floodgates opened. Back then the Ferraris were also renowned for their reliability in that age.

:cool:

Anyways, Suzuka next. Fernando has done well here for Ferrari, hope it can continue. I mean, the tyre hating tuck F150 came second and was catching button here last year. F2012 also suits this track very well IMO. They have said that tracks which require max downforce like Hungary and Singapore are their main weakness, and now no more of those. Suzuka has the type of corners the car likes, like Silverstone.


Suzuka is probably the strongest track for the F2012, Abu Dhabi and Korea concern me the most and Brazil sector 2 is kinda like Hungary.

#2458 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:02

Unfortunately for ME? I want Fernando to win it as much as anyone. I was THERE in Abu Dhabi, in the paddock, when he made that fateful pitstop which cost him the title and almost left the circuit right there and then because it was so bloody apparent that he had just lost that championship with that one move.
(...)


Sorry, I confused you with one of the frequently visiting fans of other teams/drivers who take it upon themselves to explain to us why Alonso has no chance. Hard to differentiate those from overly concerned Alonso/Ferrari fans. But as far as the actual argument is concerned, I guess today showed nicely why you should not panic.

#2459 SCUDmissile

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:05

Suzuka is probably the strongest track for the F2012, Abu Dhabi and Korea concern me the most and Brazil sector 2 is kinda like Hungary.

Korea and India isn't so bad. At brazil, Ferrari is always strong. There is only one Hungary like corner there really.

Abu Dhabi will be tough, I agree. I kind of hate that track.

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#2460 jeze

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:19

Korea and India isn't so bad. At brazil, Ferrari is always strong. There is only one Hungary like corner there really.

Abu Dhabi will be tough, I agree. I kind of hate that track.


Abu Dhabi should be pretty much alright in the first two sectors with two really long straights. S3 will be a bit harder but I still expect Fernando to have a good chance of a podium on raw pace there. Looking at the final 7 rounds of the season my main concern was Singapore. That was the worst track. Bumps, green track, short straights...

Edited by jeze, 23 September 2012 - 20:22.


#2461 Creepy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 22:43

Fernando and Ferrari ...
Please wrap the title atleast 1 race before Brazil .... I don't have heart to watch title decided in last race .........


I know that feel bro.

#2462 jeze

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 22:47

Three things I can't do in life:

Listen to "our song" that I used to have in my former relationship

Watch Brazil 2008 highlights

Watch Abu Dhabi 2010 highlights

So yeah please wrap it up before the finale please please please. But I'll take it no matter how he does it. As long as we win, else I'll lose it. This has been such a wonderful year and I can't take another of those cursing season-finale blows.



#2463 keiichi

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 23:44

Three things I can't do in life:

Listen to "our song" that I used to have in my former relationship

Watch Brazil 2008 highlights

Watch Abu Dhabi 2010 highlights

So yeah please wrap it up before the finale please please please. But I'll take it no matter how he does it. As long as we win, else I'll lose it. This has been such a wonderful year and I can't take another of those cursing season-finale blows.


Hey man, it's like they say...Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

#2464 Afterburner

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 00:07

No stopping him, is there? Props to him for a measured drive today.

#2465 George Costanza

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 00:11

It isn't just Fernando. Schumi won his first title when the McLaren was a little faster in 2000. Then the floodgates opened. Back then the Ferraris were also renowned for their reliability in that age.

:cool:

Anyways, Suzuka next. Fernando has done well here for Ferrari, hope it can continue. I mean, the tyre hating tuck F150 came second and was catching button here last year. F2012 also suits this track very well IMO. They have said that tracks which require max downforce like Hungary and Singapore are their main weakness, and now no more of those. Suzuka has the type of corners the car likes, like Silverstone.



Yes, this is the truth.

But I don't think we can expect Alonso to do what Schumacher did considering there is Red Bull, McLaren and Lotus looming behind in the future seasons.

That said, Alonso is driving like Schumacher in 1998, very much so, the car is not as good as McLaren and Red Bull or even Lotus, yet he is winning. I hope he mantains this form, because he is overdue for another World Championship.

Edited by George Costanza, 24 September 2012 - 00:13.


#2466 jeze

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:35

Prost is too far sadly.

We should be wary of Vettel, his car it's not as fast as the McLaren (maybe) but we are not in a position to celebrate yet because Hamilton it's on the edge to be out of the title race. The rival is Vettel now and the RB car is a great car, we will see if they can be consistent. Lewis can be a help for us now under certain circumstances.

25 more podiums with at least four more years in F1 is not impossible in any sense. There are six more chances this season to add to 8 podiums this year, he's been at 10 or above ever since joining Ferrari per season so I'd expect him to be 2nd on that list at the end of 2015 at the very latest!




#2467 schubacca

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 01:39

FA is bringing home the bacon for Ferrari.

This machine is just collection points like a villain.

No one can doubt that this man is driver of the year.

Regardless of what happens this season.

#2468 Bruce

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:50

Alonso is doing well - the Singapore track was not the ferrari's bread and butter - let's hope that Suzuka is more so...

As it is, things seem to keep falling FA's way... for now. I agree - wrap this up! I can't take the stress.

#2469 Ravenak

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:01

You can have the fastest car but it is worth nothing if it breaks down too often. Let me remind you of words of dear Ron Dennis "To finish first, first you have to finish"


That's originally an Enzo Ferrari saying :)

#2470 kosmos

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:46

Some good words from Martin Whitmarsh.


-Fernando is doing a fantastic job.
-Almost never he had the fastest car but he is a tremendous competitor, able to get the maximun point available to him in any situation. This is a great quality that lead him to the current situation.
-Alonso is the man of the year, He is driving better than ever, he is mature, focused and compromished. He is the reference.

-This year he is doing the work better than anyone.



He also said this about Hamilton comparing him to Fernando's journey from McLaren to Ferrari.

"Hamilton does not know the meaning of having a bad time (in F1)".


http://deportes.elpa...104_087157.html

#2471 ViMaMo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:31

Anyone care to rate FA's chances for the rest of the 6 races.

3 points for very good chance of winning
2 points for being on podium
1 point for top 6 finish

Suzuka
Korea
India
Abu Dhabi
USA
Brazil

Edited by ViMaMo, 24 September 2012 - 06:34.


#2472 ferrarijon123

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:55

Anyone care to rate FA's chances for the rest of the 6 races.

3 points for very good chance of winning
2 points for being on podium
1 point for top 6 finish

Suzuka
Korea
India
Abu Dhabi
USA
Brazil

Suzuka-3
Korea-2
India-3
Abu Dhabi-2
USA-No idea, looks a bit like Silverstone with some long straights- 2
Brazil-1

#2473 Lights

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:18

I don't see Vettel winning any races anymore. Also don't think Hamilton is going to win them all from now on. Leading me to think Alonso doesn't need any victories anymore, consistent 3rd and 4th places would be enough. If he can score ~80 points in the next 6 races I don't see who's going to surpass him. And in the last 6 races he scored 83, in the 6 before that 76.

#2474 Ravenak

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:26

I don't see Vettel winning any races anymore. Also don't think Hamilton is going to win them all from now on. Leading me to think Alonso doesn't need any victories anymore, consistent 3rd and 4th places would be enough. If he can score ~80 points in the next 6 races I don't see who's going to surpass him. And in the last 6 races he scored 83, in the 6 before that 76.


Finally, some fresh, genuine and smart optimism :clap:

:up:

#2475 bmardini

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:49

Some good words from Martin Whitmarsh.





He also said this about Hamilton comparing him to Fernando's journey from McLaren to Ferrari.



http://deportes.elpa...104_087157.html


So true, even in Hammy's "wilderness" year (09,10) he won races and got pole positions.

I wonder how he would fare in a 2009 Renault? Or even this years Mercedes?

#2476 jeze

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:07

I think all tracks would have to be considered 2:s really. None are as bad as Singapore and none are as great as Monza IMO. But it depends on car development as well.

#2477 MichaelPM

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:11

I wonder how he would fare in a 2009 Renault? Or even this years Mercedes?

I would expect to see a lot of German GP 2012, lap 4, car to pit "That's it guys, we should retire." but without the blistering pace and unlapping himself against Vettel that followed it :rolleyes:


How I see the final races:

Pro's -
Alonso is not a quitter, is the most relentless driver out there and is determined to win the WDC again
No one can be complacent with recent form this year, the big picture is all swings and roundabouts
Alonso stays out of trouble if given a chance (Spa was out of his control)
Ferrari are very motivated to improve the cars performance
The more pressure towards the end of the season will see others get more desperate and make more mistakes while Alonso is a more pragmatic driver

Con's -
When McLaren and RBR have a good weekend they run away with it which is more frequent now
McLaren ominously won 3 out of the last 4 races from pole on tracks with very different characteristics to each other and it should have been 4/4
Lotus, Sauber, Mercedes and Williams are always threatening to take points from Alonso at various points of the season
Alonso can't rely on his teammate to take points off Lewis or Seb but their teammates can easily take points off of Alonso
He just had a solid podium finish but still lost 10 points of his dwindling championship lead, no more top 5 finishing and still extending the points gap

#2478 1Devil1

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:50

I don't see Vettel winning any races anymore. Also don't think Hamilton is going to win them all from now on. Leading me to think Alonso doesn't need any victories anymore, consistent 3rd and 4th places would be enough. If he can score ~80 points in the next 6 races I don't see who's going to surpass him. And in the last 6 races he scored 83, in the 6 before that 76.


Why should Vettel doesn't win anymore? RBR tracks are coming up and Vettel proved that he is able to improve his performances in the ending stage. Alonso should concentrate on Vettel he is the only one who can stop him right now.

#2479 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:01

Why should Vettel doesn't win anymore? RBR tracks are coming up and Vettel proved that he is able to improve his performances in the ending stage. Alonso should concentrate on Vettel he is the only one who can stop him right now.


I think both Vettel & Lewis are threats for Fernando and will continue to be for at least half of the next 6 GP's, possibly more. Especially if Ferrari doesn't improve the car. Either way, Fernando has proven, in my honest opinion, that he's currently the best driver in F1, able to extract the maximum from the car & current situation without fail. Avanti Fer :up:

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#2480 1Devil1

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:12

I think both Vettel & Lewis are threats for Fernando and will continue to be for at least half of the next 6 GP's, possibly more. Especially if Ferrari doesn't improve the car. Either way, Fernando has proven, in my honest opinion, that he's currently the best driver in F1, able to extract the maximum from the car & current situation without fail. Avanti Fer :up:


I think too he is the best driver out there. But can't stand the hype around him this season. He is no magician and can win in the fifth or sixth best car under normal circumstances. If you take everything into account (reliability, speed) I would put the the Ferrari on the same spot as RedBull and lower than McLaren and to pull out a gap bigger than 30 points is quit an achievement. He is proving he is the star of the formula one. But you need a car for doing that and Alonso has a top car in which he can show his abilities. :up:

#2481 JBLeon

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:25

Guys, I think you're seeing the forest for the trees. Back in 2010 Fernando, and Ferrari, had their eyes on Webber up until they figured out that RBR had tricked them (around the time Alonso got stuck behind Petrov). This time around Vettel is in the radar, as well as Lewis and Kimmi.

And the reason Fernando, and Ferrari, said that they need to win another GP is because they want the WDC as soon as possible, not because they fear a repeat of 2010.

Fernando's got a 29-point lead and he feels that Lewis/Sebantian will most likely have at least another DNF.

#2482 Blackmadonna

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:28

I think too he is the best driver out there. But can't stand the hype around him this season. He is no magician and can win in the fifth or sixth best car under normal circumstances. If you take everything into account (reliability, speed) I would put the the Ferrari on the same spot as RedBull and lower than McLaren and to pull out a gap bigger than 30 points is quit an achievement. He is proving he is the star of the formula one. But you need a car for doing that and Alonso has a top car in which he can show his abilities. :up:


Fernando- fans can 'stand it' just fine, after all the dirt that has been thrown on him, its quite refreshing for a change. And you have no idea about 'hype' when you aren't german and can watch the Vettel- show every race weekend on RTL.

For me the F2012 is far from a 'top car', maybe i have another definition of that. What Fernando has been doing so far- with a lot of support from the team nontheless- has been nothing short of amazing, no matter if he wins the title this time or not.

#2483 1Devil1

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:41

And you have no idea about 'hype' when you aren't german and can watch the Vettel- show every race weekend on RTL.


I am german. You have the Vettel-Show on RTL, the Hamilton-Show on BBC and the Alonso-Show on spanish television.

But in particular I spoke about the hype here in the Atlasf1 forum. Overall the Ferrari is a good package and not on a level of Sauber and Williams as some people want to suggest. And of course his performance is amazing but I can't see him wearing a superman costume. That's it.

#2484 Hollow

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:57

Wow, Whitmarsch saying he's the man of the year...this year racing better than anyone else. High praise indeed.

Edited by Hollow, 24 September 2012 - 13:59.


#2485 Hanzo

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:00

I don't know about hypes or superman costumes, all I know is that this Ferrari 2012 is a disgrace and Fernando is saving a few people's jobs back at Maranello this season.
Alonso was not mentioned as contender for the WDC by Button and other drivers after the first races this season , and you have MW comments above, I did not see so many people complaining about negative hype in 2007, when he was the devil.

Alonso is the best driver. I knew this long time ago, but it is not only my opinion now, it is the F1 drivers opinion as well.;)

Edited by Hanzo, 24 September 2012 - 14:14.


#2486 camberley

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:02

Wow, Whitmarsch saying he's the man of the year...this year racing better than anyone else. High praise indeed.


Thats what he is saying. In his mind he is thinking - If only that bozo Ron had done the right thing and kept Alonso and got rid of Hamilton we would be sitting on another three WDCs and WCCs

#2487 discover23

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:28

Some good words from Martin Whitmarsh.

He also said this about Hamilton comparing him to Fernando's journey from McLaren to Ferrari.
http://deportes.elpa...104_087157.html


thanks for sharing.. :up: Great Interview..

"Fernando es mucho mejor piloto ahora que cuando nosotros lo tuvimos en 2007. Cuando se fue, pasó por situaciones en las que no pudo demostrar todo lo rápido que realmente era como corredor, y eso ha sido un factor a tener muy en cuenta en su desarrollo. Ahora le da mucho más valor que antes a los éxitos que consigue y los disfruta mucho más. Aunque a veces sea doloroso, perder te da una perspectiva muy valiosa."

"Fernando is a much better driver now than when he drove for us in 2007. When he left, he went through situations where he could not demonstrate how fast he really was as a driver, and this has been one of the factors to consider about his develpment. Now, he values more all of his triumphs and he also enjoys it more. Although it is sometimes painful, losing gives you a very valuable perspective.."

Edited by discover23, 24 September 2012 - 15:02.


#2488 Craven Morehead

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:30

Thats what he is saying. In his mind he is thinking - If only that bozo Ron had done the right thing and kept Alonso and got rid of Hamilton we would be sitting on another three WDCs and WCCs


So true..

I think, in his heart, Martin W. knows this.

Edited by Craven Morehead, 24 September 2012 - 15:31.


#2489 Blackmadonna

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:52

I am german. You have the Vettel-Show on RTL, the Hamilton-Show on BBC and the Alonso-Show on spanish television.

But in particular I spoke about the hype here in the Atlasf1 forum. Overall the Ferrari is a good package and not on a level of Sauber and Williams as some people want to suggest. And of course his performance is amazing but I can't see him wearing a superman costume. That's it.


Awww poor you. Unless you are a Vettelfan. But i really wish i had learned spanish now :lol:

I don't see any 'hype' here except for the Fernando- thread, where it should be allowed, and aside from that, Fernando has been the house villain for years in this place, so its still fine for a change. Just imagine he wins this years title! I'm afraid you won't be able to spoil the fun of the fans here then...a voice crying in the wilderness, if you want to see it that way.

Relax, let us poor Fernandofans have some fun and enjoy our driver, nobody is asking you to take part in the 'hype', but you won't be able to stop it either :wave:

#2490 Lights

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 16:09

Why should Vettel doesn't win anymore? RBR tracks are coming up and Vettel proved that he is able to improve his performances in the ending stage. Alonso should concentrate on Vettel he is the only one who can stop him right now.

Which tracks? In the last 3 years Red Bull have won on all circuits, based on them having the quickest car in general. Right now Red Bull doesn't have the quickest car, McLaren do, and on most tracks Ferrari is a match for Red Bull as well.

And Vettel proved what? I haven't seen any proof of that. And if it were true I'd wonder what he does the rest of the year then.

#2491 kosmos

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:24

Some prise from Stefano here. In Spanish.





#2492 SCUDmissile

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:43

That is a fantastic article, not just about Fernando, but Stefano. And some interesting stuff about Vettel.
Stefano :up:

Would go well in the Ferrari thread, as well.

thanks kosmos.


#2493 Ravenak

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:01

So he would pick Vettel over Lewis... makes sense in Ferrari's mindset.

Edited by Ravenak, 26 September 2012 - 13:01.


#2494 MarcelBrDirani

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:56

Awww poor you. Unless you are a Vettelfan. But i really wish i had learned spanish now :lol:

I don't see any 'hype' here except for the Fernando- thread, where it should be allowed, and aside from that, Fernando has been the house villain for years in this place, so its still fine for a change. Just imagine he wins this years title! I'm afraid you won't be able to spoil the fun of the fans here then...a voice crying in the wilderness, if you want to see it that way.

Relax, let us poor Fernandofans have some fun and enjoy our driver, nobody is asking you to take part in the 'hype', but you won't be able to stop it either :wave:



I don´t think Fernando will win this years title by the folowing reasons:

1) Fernando must continue to perform at such a high level (Hard but possible)

2) Lewis must have continuos mech problems for the remaining races (Hard but possible)

3) Vettel must have mech problems for the remaining races 9Hard but possible)

4) Lotus, Mercedes and Sauber are too close to Ferrari


No matter what happens, i must say Fernando is doing the best season i have seen since 1993. Every F1 fan should be enjoing it.

#2495 1Devil1

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:17

I don´t think Fernando will win this years title by the folowing reasons:

1) Fernando must continue to perform at such a high level (Hard but possible)

2) Lewis must have continuos mech problems for the remaining races (Hard but possible)

3) Vettel must have mech problems for the remaining races 9Hard but possible)

4) Lotus, Mercedes and Sauber are too close to Ferrari


No matter what happens, i must say Fernando is doing the best season [b]i have seen since 1993/b]. Every F1 fan should be enjoing it.

Of course. You were not able to watch formula one races between 1994 and 2006 or what's the problem here :rotfl:

The rest is quit laughable as well. Mercedes and Lotus are too close to Ferrari? Alonso is in the best position to win this championship. He has a good car, he performance on a high all season. Why should he decline in this aspect? Only Vettel or (Hamilton - very unlikely) can outperform him with a series of wins and no tech problems (happened this season quit often)

#2496 jeze

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:23

Of course. You were not able to watch formula one races between 1994 and 2006 or what's the problem here :rotfl:

The rest is quit laughable as well. Mercedes and Lotus are too close to Ferrari? Alonso is in the best position to win this championship. He has a good car, he performance on a high all season. Why should he decline in this aspect? Only Vettel or (Hamilton - very unlikely) can outperform him with a series of wins and no tech problems (happened this season quit often)


The best individual driving seasons I've seen are:


2001 (Schumacher, his highest ever pole-position number without a dominant car, his peak year)

2007 (Hamilton, rookie against 2x WDC team mate, Ferrari the faster car)

2012 (Alonso)

Those three really stand out.



#2497 1Devil1

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:55

The best individual driving seasons I've seen are:


2001 (Schumacher, his highest ever pole-position number without a dominant car, his peak year)

2007 (Hamilton, rookie against 2x WDC team mate, Ferrari the faster car)

2012 (Alonso)

Those three really stand out.



I think Alonso season so far is quit remarkable and deserves to be named as one of the best individual seasons ever :up: . It was funny because he left Schumacher out in his comment. He/She is not the biggest fan of his

#2498 kosmos

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 15:55

Some of you put too much emphasis on Fernando's performance and his ability to maximize the car or get always solid points but the car is really important now, if the car full potential is stuck for the rest of the season behind RB and McLaren, Alonso is going to suffer. I don't think he needs a car able to win in every race, but one to seriously challenge for 3rd and 2nd.

Edited by D.M.N., 26 September 2012 - 17:15.
remove response to deleted quote


#2499 BorkoF2012

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 16:27

If Lauda says that Fernando is going to win the title, it means he won't, becuase when Lauda gives prediction, everything opposite happens :(

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#2500 as65p

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 16:48

If Lauda says that Fernando is going to win the title, it means he won't, becuase when Lauda gives prediction, everything opposite happens :(


Now you scared me. :mad:

 ;)