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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#2501 Suntrek

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:02

You will make a mistake and end on the gravel, Alonso will win you :wave:

Speaking seriously now, some of you put too much emphasis on Fernando's performance and his ability to maximize the car or get always solid points but the car is really important now, if the car full potential is stuck for the rest of the season behind RB and McLaren, Alonso is going to suffer. I don't think he needs a car able to win in every race, but one to seriously challenge for 3rd and 2nd.


Yes, probably. :D

Seriously, I won't in any way claim Alonso has this year's WDC in the bag, Abu Dhabi is still too fresh and painful in my memory. Anything can still happen. But reliability WILL be a crucial factor - a DNF from Alonso and the championship will be split open. But if the car holds up, and Alonso does his thing being a badger (yes, old joke from 2006 - I liked him with a bagder, a badger that in Swedish folklore doesn't ease his grip when he's got a hold until he can hear the bones crushing - that's why people here in the old days used to put crunchy bread and whatnot in their wellies... oh, never mind) the championship will be his to lose.

I haven't done the maths, but let's say both RBR and both Maccas finish in front of him - meaning he'll be fifth in the rest of the races. Does that mean he'll lose the championship? (honest question - as I said, I haven't done the maths)

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#2502 as65p

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:11

Yes, probably. :D

Seriously, I won't in any way claim Alonso has this year's WDC in the bag, Abu Dhabi is still too fresh and painful in my memory. Anything can still happen. But reliability WILL be a crucial factor - a DNF from Alonso and the championship will be split open. But if the car holds up, and Alonso does his thing being a badger (yes, old joke from 2006 - I liked him with a bagder, a badger that in Swedish folklore doesn't ease his grip when he's got a hold until he can hear the bones crushing - that's why people here in the old days used to put crunchy bread and whatnot in their wellies... oh, never mind) the championship will be his to lose.

I haven't done the maths, but let's say both RBR and both Maccas finish in front of him - meaning he'll be fifth in the rest of the races. Does that mean he'll lose the championship? (honest question - as I said, I haven't done the maths)


If it's always SV or LH in P1 and P2, yes he would lose by coming 5th each time.

#2503 D.M.N.

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:17

Awww poor you. Unless you are a Vettelfan. But i really wish i had learned spanish now :lol:

I don't see any 'hype' here except for the Fernando- thread, where it should be allowed, and aside from that, Fernando has been the house villain for years in this place, so its still fine for a change. Just imagine he wins this years title! I'm afraid you won't be able to spoil the fun of the fans here then...a voice crying in the wilderness, if you want to see it that way.

Relax, let us poor Fernandofans have some fun and enjoy our driver, nobody is asking you to take part in the 'hype', but you won't be able to stop it either :wave:


Maybe I should make it clear to you and to others that this is not a Fernando Alonso fan thread. This is a Fernando Alonso discussion thread. Positive and negative opinions are welcome here from any user, you do not have to be a 'fan' or 'fanboy' to post in this thread.

That applies for any driver thread in this forum. They are not 'fan threads', they are 'discussion threads' where the drivers strengths and weaknesses are discussed. Your assumption that this is a 'fan thread' is wrong.

Also, off-topic posts have been removed. As always, if you have a problem with any of the moderation on this forum, you are welcome to communicate with us privately via PM.

Thank you.

#2504 jeze

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:18

Yes, probably. :D

Seriously, I won't in any way claim Alonso has this year's WDC in the bag, Abu Dhabi is still too fresh and painful in my memory. Anything can still happen. But reliability WILL be a crucial factor - a DNF from Alonso and the championship will be split open. But if the car holds up, and Alonso does his thing being a badger (yes, old joke from 2006 - I liked him with a bagder, a badger that in Swedish folklore doesn't ease his grip when he's got a hold until he can hear the bones crushing - that's why people here in the old days used to put crunchy bread and whatnot in their wellies... oh, never mind) the championship will be his to lose.

I haven't done the maths, but let's say both RBR and both Maccas finish in front of him - meaning he'll be fifth in the rest of the races. Does that mean he'll lose the championship? (honest question - as I said, I haven't done the maths)


He beat Webber at RBR's best track, so why is that?

But the best case-scenario for Alonso in that case would be three wins for Button, two for Webber and one for Hamilton - but should anyone behind him start to dominate, Fernando would need to be second all the time essentially. He is beating Hamilton no matter what with 3 seconds and 3 thirds, 4 seconds, one third and one fourth would also be enough to see off Hamilton. Five seconds and one fifth would also make any LH charge redundant. If Fernando won once and took three seconds and one fourth, Hamilton would be unable to catch him even if Fernando retired in the 6th race.

As for Vettel, if Fernando wins one race and finishes second in the five others, Vettel can't catch him. If Vettel is beaten to the win four times by Hamilton and wins two himself, with Fernando in third all the time, Vettel wins it by 287 to 284. But if Button takes 2nd in one of those races with Vettel down in 4th behind Fernando, it's Alonso's title.

A good start to Fernando's title run-in would be a McLaren 1-2 at Suzuka with Button leading home Hamilton (Martin's golden boy and still within a race win of Hamilton), with Fernando beating Vettel to 3rd. That would be a good weekend in my book - since I expect McLaren to completely dominate at that particular track - and struggle somewhat with tyre wear on Hamilton there, which opens it up for Jenson - who is a smoother driver and therefore stunning at Suzuka. He even won there against Vettel last year (!)

Edited by jeze, 26 September 2012 - 17:18.


#2505 topical

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:49

I'm starting to think 1 more race win for Alonso and three podiums in the remaining 6 races should be enough for the title, especially if McLaren win most of them. What we really need now is for Button to have a good run. At Suzuka he usually goes well. However, unfortunately Hamilton really seems the stronger of the two McLaren drivers. But really the main thing is for Alonso to be on the podium and not have Vettel in front of him.
I really hope it doesn't go down to the last race. I cannot bear a repeat of 2010 again.

#2506 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:57

It would be so much worse than 2010 after having led quite comfortably (for whatever reasons, we know them, but still) for what now seems virtually the whole season.

#2507 Suntrek

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 18:10

He beat Webber at RBR's best track, so why is that?

But the best case-scenario for Alonso in that case would be three wins for Button, two for Webber and one for Hamilton - but should anyone behind him start to dominate, Fernando would need to be second all the time essentially. He is beating Hamilton no matter what with 3 seconds and 3 thirds, 4 seconds, one third and one fourth would also be enough to see off Hamilton. Five seconds and one fifth would also make any LH charge redundant. If Fernando won once and took three seconds and one fourth, Hamilton would be unable to catch him even if Fernando retired in the 6th race.

As for Vettel, if Fernando wins one race and finishes second in the five others, Vettel can't catch him. If Vettel is beaten to the win four times by Hamilton and wins two himself, with Fernando in third all the time, Vettel wins it by 287 to 284. But if Button takes 2nd in one of those races with Vettel down in 4th behind Fernando, it's Alonso's title.

A good start to Fernando's title run-in would be a McLaren 1-2 at Suzuka with Button leading home Hamilton (Martin's golden boy and still within a race win of Hamilton), with Fernando beating Vettel to 3rd. That would be a good weekend in my book - since I expect McLaren to completely dominate at that particular track - and struggle somewhat with tyre wear on Hamilton there, which opens it up for Jenson - who is a smoother driver and therefore stunning at Suzuka. He even won there against Vettel last year (!)



Good lord I had no idea anything like "best track" could be applied to that pathetic excuse for a racing track as is Abu Dhabi - not even for Red Bull. Don't know, but I guess that illuminated fallos covering a hotel is more like what's supposed to stun us. Not the race track itself (yes I hated the shit even before 2010) I hereby name it the Blue Polkadot Hell. But I get your point. Can't say I'm over the moon just in this particular case though - even if Alonso DID beat Webber. :cry:

That said, I hear what you are saying (thank you for the effort!) and as I suspected - it's very much still an open affair. Anything can happen and you haven't even calculated in freak results from any Maldonados and somesuch. We just have to wait and cross fingers. Above all for reliability and to steer clear of Grosjeans and the likes. From there Alonso will do what he can. If it's enough - fine. If not we'll take'm next year. :wave:

Edited by Suntrek, 26 September 2012 - 18:43.


#2508 MarcelBrDirani

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 18:39

The best individual driving seasons I've seen are:


2001 (Schumacher, his highest ever pole-position number without a dominant car, his peak year)

2007 (Hamilton, rookie against 2x WDC team mate, Ferrari the faster car)

2012 (Alonso)

Those three really stand out.





Prost 1988, driving the most dominant F1 car ever (for many people), starting avererage position 2.5 or so
Rubens 2001, driving what you think was not the dominant car that year, starting grid average position: 4.4 or so

Even if we pretend we don´t know MS had undisputable number one status, and the problems RB had, there´s something really wrong here:

We all know how good Prost was. Rubens was beaten by Irvine, Michael, Button, Maldonado.

Ferrari in 2001 was absolutelly the best car on the grid miles ahead.

Edited by MarcelBrDirani, 26 September 2012 - 18:41.


#2509 apoka

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 18:51

The best individual driving seasons I've seen are:


2001 (Schumacher, his highest ever pole-position number without a dominant car, his peak year)

2007 (Hamilton, rookie against 2x WDC team mate, Ferrari the faster car)

2012 (Alonso)

Those three really stand out.

I'm not even sure 2007 was Hamilton's best year - maybe 2009. But given he was a rookie, it certainly was a very remarkable season. In my opinion, the best individual driving I have seen since 1994 was Vettel 2011, followed by some Schumacher seasons (including the somewhat boring 2002 and 2004 years, but also the late 90s). Alonso 2006 was great as well.

#2510 garoidb

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 21:10

I'm not even sure 2007 was Hamilton's best year - maybe 2009. But given he was a rookie, it certainly was a very remarkable season. In my opinion, the best individual driving I have seen since 1994 was Vettel 2011, followed by some Schumacher seasons (including the somewhat boring 2002 and 2004 years, but also the late 90s). Alonso 2006 was great as well.


A bit off topic, but I thought his crash at Monza 2009 was a really worrying driver error. You don't often see an F1 driver crash from simply going too fast at a track like Monza. Anyway, I thought it was poor judgement on his part.


#2511 Clatter

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 21:14

I'm not even sure 2007 was Hamilton's best year - maybe 2009. But given he was a rookie, it certainly was a very remarkable season. In my opinion, the best individual driving I have seen since 1994 was Vettel 2011, followed by some Schumacher seasons (including the somewhat boring 2002 and 2004 years, but also the late 90s). Alonso 2006 was great as well.


IMHO it was by far his best year to date only spoilt by the last 2 races.


#2512 HPT

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:32

IMHO it was by far his best year to date only spoilt by the last 2 races.


Fully agree with you. Shanghai isn't even his fault, and he dominated that race prior to the tire fiasco. And his only mistake in Brazil was not conceding after Alonso took him in turn 1. His rookie year was his best year in terms of pace and consistency. He hasn't been able to repeat that ever since.

#2513 DarkknightRises

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 05:05

Fully agree with you. Shanghai isn't even his fault, and he dominated that race prior to the tire fiasco. And his only mistake in Brazil was not conceding after Alonso took him in turn 1. His rookie year was his best year in terms of pace and consistency. He hasn't been able to repeat that ever since.



He didnt dominate, kimi was chasing him all the while and managed to overtook him eventually.....2-3 laps later, lewis made an error while going into pitlane and stuck on the gravel ( he admitted himself )

#2514 Ravenak

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:05

Who cares about Lewis ? :p

One thing I wonder about, but we'll never know: how much does Fernando himself actually believe in his chances?

I see him as someone very honest and logical, but also a bit spiritual. I think he's 110% right now.

Edited by Ravenak, 27 September 2012 - 06:05.


#2515 HPT

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:12

He didnt dominate, kimi was chasing him all the while and managed to overtook him eventually.....2-3 laps later, lewis made an error while going into pitlane and stuck on the gravel ( he admitted himself )


Did you see the conditions of his tires? They were down to canvas. He couldn't have seen that. It was the team's fault for leaving him out that long, especially since he was a rookie. Heck why am I defending Hamilton here? Who cares about him. This is an Alonso thread. :)

#2516 Craven Morehead

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 06:33

Fernando's 2012 season is the most remarkable I've seen in a long time. He is absolutely at the top of his game. Fast, agressive when he needs to be, but always with an eye on the long game.

#2517 Ferrari2183

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:29

Fernando's 2012 season is the most remarkable I've seen in a long time. He is absolutely at the top of his game. Fast, agressive when he needs to be, but always with an eye on the long game.

I share this opinion. Hope it all ends with a championship.

#2518 Raelene

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:45

Fernando's 2012 season is the most remarkable I've seen in a long time. He is absolutely at the top of his game. Fast, agressive when he needs to be, but always with an eye on the long game.

:up:

#2519 Architrion

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:50

Fernando's 2012 season is the most remarkable I've seen in a long time. He is absolutely at the top of his game. Fast, agressive when he needs to be, but always with an eye on the long game.


Fully agree. I've been watching Formula 1 since mid 80's and Alonso's performance is at the same level with Senna's 93 season. And just to remember, Senna wasn't champion that year. Alan Prost won it with that unbelievable Williams which won 10 of 16 races.

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#2520 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:07

Which tracks? In the last 3 years Red Bull have won on all circuits, based on them having the quickest car in general. Right now Red Bull doesn't have the quickest car, McLaren do, and on most tracks Ferrari is a match for Red Bull as well.

And Vettel proved what? I haven't seen any proof of that. And if it were true I'd wonder what he does the rest of the year then.

I am just thinking that taking 25 points in 2 races might be a good hint there...

Or that, if Renault would have given RedBull a reliable alternator, the leader would not be Alonso...

But yeah, wondering when Vettel has proved he can push very hard until the end, or what has he done the rest of the season...

Given that the Ferrari has amazing race pace in full tanks, is the best car on changing conditions, and is only handicapped when there is not much rubber on the track, and very low fuel, I am not sure how can anyone say that THAT is not a good package, or at least equal to the RedBull. Granted, McLaren has been the best car of the year, and probably by some margin, but Ferrari is quite close to them.


#2521 camberley

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 05:50

Great news for Alonso fans.
Hamilton is actually leaving Maclaren for Mercedes. Dumb move of the last 2 centuries !

Alonso's mind games worked on him The guy actually thinks he can go and drive an uncompetitive car and be successful and/or he is going to get the attention he craves and thinks he deserves.

Edited by Mandzipop, 30 September 2012 - 13:27.
That dumb ungrateful


#2522 kosmos

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:01

Be careful what you wish for, back in the day, some people say that Alonso was wrong going to Renault and not Ferrari, maybe Mercedes is not WDC/WCC material now, maybe they will never be but there is also a chance that they will turn the table at some point.

Actually, I think this move is bad for Alonso this year if McLaren screw Hamilton and he can't win more races, we need him to get points from Vettel. But let's see and wait, first if Hamilton really signed with Merecedes and McLaren approach to his star leaving.

Edited by kosmos, 28 September 2012 - 07:12.


#2523 topical

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 06:54

This is good news for Alonso. McLaren definitely won't screw Hamilton but they won't want him leaving with the No.1 on his car, which means Button will be free to race him. A series of Button victories is the best thing Alonso could have (apart from his own victories, of course).

Edited by topical, 28 September 2012 - 06:54.


#2524 kosmos

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 07:26

Montezemolo:

"strongest driver I have ever seen"


"He also impresses me for three reasons; the interpretation of the race and especially the tyre wear, his great motivational influence on the team, and his (regular) presence at Maranello,"


http://www.f1reports...ved-montezemolo


We only need a car a little faster, just a little faster, do it Luca ;)





#2525 Ravenak

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 09:16

Well, I don't care about the Hamilton and/or Pérez saga.

¡Puxa Nando!

#2526 aditya-now

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:22

Great news for Alonso fans.

Hamilton is actually leaving Maclaren for Mercedes. Dumb move of the last 2 centuries !

Alonso's mind games worked on him The guy actually thinks he can go and drive an uncompetitive car and be successful and/or he is going to get the attention he craves and thinks he deserves.


That was also my thought: Fernando telling repeatedly that Lewis is the driver he respects more. That Lewis is the only driver capable of winning in an uncompetitive car.

Well done, Lewis, well done, Fernando!

Edited by Mandzipop, 30 September 2012 - 13:28.
Quoting an edited post


#2527 PedroR

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:31

That was also my thought: Fernando telling repeatedly that Lewis is the driver he respects more. That Lewis is the only driver capable of winning in an uncompetitive car.

Well done, Lewis, well done, Fernando!


:rotfl: :rolleyes: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Nando the best in mental Games too :drunk:

#2528 as65p

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:00

Alonso's mind games worked on him The guy actually thinks he can go and drive an uncompetitive car and be successful and/or he is going to get the attention he craves and thinks he deserves.


I have to say the thought crossed my mind too. :D . Although obviously it's pure conjecture. The only thing we know is, Alonso propagated two strong opinions over the last months, a) Hamilton is capable of winning in lesser cars and b) him (Alonso) leaving McLaren was a brilliant decision.



#2529 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:02

See if this is true... :rotfl:

But it probably isn't, is it?

#2530 as65p

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:14

See if this is true... :rotfl:

But it probably isn't, is it?


No, it probably isn't.

Then again.....  ;)

#2531 Suntrek

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:21

Great news for Alonso fans.

Hamilton is actually leaving Maclaren for Mercedes. Dumb move of the last 2 centuries !

Alonso's mind games worked on him The guy actually thinks he can go and drive an uncompetitive car and be successful and/or he is going to get the attention he craves and thinks he deserves.


Bit silly to call Hamilton dumb for doing exactly what Alonso himself did some years ago - leaving a team he was highly uncomfortable with for a mid-grid team. And I don't think some Alonso interviews, however in-depth discussed in F1 fora - (seriously doubt LH even read them) has had any influence at all on his decision.

I DO think though that Alonso smiles a little bit now that the shoe is on the other foot. Being #2* at McLaren isn't fun. Alonso experienced it and now Hamilton...

*For clarification - not #2 in tems of technical support, but mentally and psychologically.

Edited by Mandzipop, 30 September 2012 - 13:29.
Quoting an edited post


#2532 aditya-now

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 14:43

I have to say the thought crossed my mind too. :D . Although obviously it's pure conjecture. The only thing we know is, Alonso propagated two strong opinions over the last months, a) Hamilton is capable of winning in lesser cars and b) him (Alonso) leaving McLaren was a brilliant decision.


As well as DC giving his opinion, that he admired Alonso for being so courageous to quit McLaren in 2007 - a short-term loss but a long-term gain for Fernando. Coulthard confessed that he himself did not have the courage to do so (to leave McLaren) in time.

With McLaren being the corporate team they are, not only they make their drivers, they also hamper their drivers.

Fernando found out pretty quickly and took the consequences - faster than anyone else before. Even if it was a loss of face (in the eyes of many who see only the surface), Fernando did what he had to do.

So he set a precedent and will no doubt have dropped hints to Lewis how nice it is to have a whole team around him - something that Lewis would have never had at McLaren. The warming between the two, the chats they had with each other, Fernando "respecting Lewis more" and thinking that "only Lewis can win in lesser cars" will undoubtedly have had an impact on Lewis'n thinking.

Whether Fernando intended it as a strategy/mental game or as a sincere advice to a friend is another matter.

Who knows, maybe we look forward to a battle of the titans, Red against Silver, Ferrari against Mercedes, Alonso against Hamilton?


#2533 Clatter

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 15:06

As well as DC giving his opinion, that he admired Alonso for being so courageous to quit McLaren in 2007 - a short-term loss but a long-term gain for Fernando. Coulthard confessed that he himself did not have the courage to do so (to leave McLaren) in time.

With McLaren being the corporate team they are, not only they make their drivers, they also hamper their drivers.

Fernando found out pretty quickly and took the consequences - faster than anyone else before. Even if it was a loss of face (in the eyes of many who see only the surface), Fernando did what he had to do.

So he set a precedent and will no doubt have dropped hints to Lewis how nice it is to have a whole team around him - something that Lewis would have never had at McLaren. The warming between the two, the chats they had with each other, Fernando "respecting Lewis more" and thinking that "only Lewis can win in lesser cars" will undoubtedly have had an impact on Lewis'n thinking.

Whether Fernando intended it as a strategy/mental game or as a sincere advice to a friend is another matter.

Who knows, maybe we look forward to a battle of the titans, Red against Silver, Ferrari against Mercedes, Alonso against Hamilton?


It really wasn't the same though. Alonso's position was untenable, whereas DC still had a good working relationship.


#2534 garoidb

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 15:07

So he set a precedent and will no doubt have dropped hints to Lewis how nice it is to have a whole team around him - something that Lewis would have never had at McLaren. The warming between the two, the chats they had with each other, Fernando "respecting Lewis more" and thinking that "only Lewis can win in lesser cars" will undoubtedly have had an impact on Lewis'n thinking.

Whether Fernando intended it as a strategy/mental game or as a sincere advice to a friend is another matter.


:rotfl: Priceless.

I think he meant it as a veiled insult to Vettel, but anyway ...

#2535 JimiKart

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 15:26

I think it’s pretty clear that Ferrari and Fernando knew that LH was actively seeking a new ride for next year and was bent on leaving Mac, it goes without saying that he wasn’t getting a ride with them or Red Bull, so to leave Mac to go anywhere else that had an open seat was the best case scenario for Ferrari/Fernando as it wouldn’t be a top 3 team.

Pumping up LH’s ego and helping him make the big jump seems an obvious possibility to me in hindsight.

IMO team Ferrari relishes the thought of Hamilton going to Merc next year for obvious reasons;

(1) Mac won’t let him leave with a number 1 on his car – I think Hammi’s now doomed to low tire pressure, less preferential strategy, Button doing whatever he wants with no penalty from the team and god know what else – I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton and his fans are screaming for FIA delegates to be in his pit before the end of this season just to make sure there are no shenanigans by those who are famous for it.

(2) Next season will be a write-off for Lewis with the tantalizing possibility that Rosberg actually beats LH and all the fallout from that – what could be better from their point of view.


#2536 Ravenak

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 15:28

(3) Bonus: putting a latin Ferrari driver into the McLaren machine to make it explode.

Just kiddin' (or am I?)

Edited by Ravenak, 30 September 2012 - 15:28.


#2537 Pep

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 16:48

(1) Mac won’t let him leave with a number 1 on his car – I think Hammi’s now doomed to low tire pressure, less preferential strategy, Button doing whatever he wants with no penalty from the team and god know what else – I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton and his fans are screaming for FIA delegates to be in his pit before the end of this season just to make sure there are no shenanigans by those who are famous for it.


I think Mclaren know their only chance to the WDC is Hamilton, and they'll do whatever necessary for it. Including asking Button to help Hamilton.

Of course it would be a complete different story if Button was on pair with Hamilton, then one could agree somewhat with the above.


#2538 JimiKart

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:34

I think Mclaren know their only chance to the WDC is Hamilton, and they'll do whatever necessary for it. Including asking Button to help Hamilton.

Of course it would be a complete different story if Button was on pair with Hamilton, then one could agree somewhat with the above.


Well after watching Mac operate since day one I don't agree, let's talk at the end of the season...

#2539 garoidb

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:10

IMO team Ferrari relishes the thought of Hamilton going to Merc next year for obvious reasons;

(1) Mac won’t let him leave with a number 1 on his car – I think Hammi’s now doomed to low tire pressure, less preferential strategy, Button doing whatever he wants with no penalty from the team and god know what else – I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton and his fans are screaming for FIA delegates to be in his pit before the end of this season just to make sure there are no shenanigans by those who are famous for it.


I think this is completely wrong. You think they would prefer Ferrari with Alonso or Red Bull with Vettel to win it? If Button still had a chance, then maybe they would favour him but he doesn't.

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#2540 Clatter

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:16

I think this is completely wrong. You think they would prefer Ferrari with Alonso or Red Bull with Vettel to win it? If Button still had a chance, then maybe they would favour him but he doesn't.


I agree. I don't believe they will put any hurdles in his way, just as they didn't with FA in 2007. The only thing that may not happen is team orders to swap the drivers around.


#2541 JimiKart

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:24

I agree. I don't believe they will put any hurdles in his way, just as they didn't with FA in 2007. The only thing that may not happen is team orders to swap the drivers around.


That's pretty funny that you state that as fact when there are so many possibilities, a smart person would wait for FA to retire and hear what he has to say before stating that as fact.

#2542 Clatter

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:41

That's pretty funny that you state that as fact when there are so many possibilities, a smart person would wait for FA to retire and hear what he has to say before stating that as fact.


He wouldn't have got the results he did if they were putting barriers in his way, Max put an FIA inspector in to ensure fair play and most importantly Alonso has already said it. Of course you might believe he was lying.

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/7074737.stm
"I know there have been suggestions of favouritism within the team and people say a lot of things in the heat of battle, but in the end I was always provided with an equal opportunity to win."


A smart person wouldn't make outlandish predictions that could so quickly show him to be a fool.

Edited by Clatter, 30 September 2012 - 19:43.


#2543 JimiKart

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:46

He wouldn't have got the results he did if they were putting barriers in his way, Max put an FIA inspector in to ensure fair play and most importantly Alonso has already said it. Of course you might believe he was lying.



A smart person wouldn't make outlandish predictions that could so quickly show him to be a fool.


I see you can't tell the difference between and opinion and a prediction, no matter schooling you isn't that important to me.

#2544 P123

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:59

That's pretty funny that you state that as fact when there are so many possibilities, a smart person would wait for FA to retire and hear what he has to say before stating that as fact.


Why has he got to retire to speak out?

Got to say, the imaginations of some of you lot are top notch, and clearly they don't just extend to conspiracies over 2007. :up:

#2545 Clatter

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 20:01

I see you can't tell the difference between and opinion and a prediction, no matter schooling you isn't that important to me.


Doesn't look like facts are important to you either.

#2546 JimiKart

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 20:02

Why has he got to retire to speak out?

Got to say, the imaginations of some of you lot are top notch, and clearly they don't just extend to conspiracies over 2007. :up:


Not sure how long you've been following F1 and sports in general, but if you have trouble grasping the concept that over the years numerous tidbits of career info have come out only after a sportsman retires, I really can't do much for you, other than to assure it has happened before.

#2547 P123

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 20:05

Not sure how long you've been following F1 and sports in general, but if you have trouble grasping the concept that over the years numerous tidbits of career info have come out only after a sportsman retires, I really can't do much for you, other than to assure it has happened before.


Sure, and in the meantime you and your fellow fiction writers can create alternate little realities, so long as they blow an adequate amount of smoke up Fernando's bottom. No, I can't do much for you either.

#2548 fhaneef

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 20:06

Great news for Alonso fans.
Hamilton is actually leaving Maclaren for Mercedes. Dumb move of the last 2 centuries !

Alonso's mind games worked on him The guy actually thinks he can go and drive an uncompetitive car and be successful and/or he is going to get the attention he craves and thinks he deserves.


So true! :blush: :| :love:

#2549 Bruce

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 21:48

Bit silly to call Hamilton dumb for doing exactly what Alonso himself did some years ago - leaving a team he was highly uncomfortable with for a mid-grid team.


There is a big difference here - Alonso left because he had too - there is NO WAY that McLaren were keeping him on after the mess of 2007 - so he had to suck it up and go back to Renault... (more about that in a sec). In Hamilton's case he had no real reason to leave McLaren. He's within shouting distance of the WDC this year and he's moving to a team where THAT won't be the case for a while.

The Renault comparison is interesting for this reason; in other threads I am reading the heady optimism of Hamilton fans who think that "Mercedes" is a perfect team for Hamilton to go to because - wait for it - they won the WDC and CC as "Brawn in 2009! :lol:

The argument goes like this - "the team hasn't changed much in terms of personnel, so this must still be a wonderful team that hamilton can excel at..." - not sure how they are able to block the last 2 and a half years of pointlessness out of there minds - but here is the interesting part - Alonso moved to a "mid field team" right? Well - when he moved back to that team it was a single year away from having won a championship... even with Alonso all they could manage is 2 wins (one a cheat) and 5th in the WDC and 4th in the CC - the next year, Alonso didn't win a single race and finished 9th... oh - and 8th in the WDC.

An F1 career can't stand this sort of free-fall for long - fernando was fortunate to get to ferrari when he did. Lewis? All I can say is that I think that his fans, who are counting on an amazing season soon, based on a one off in 2009 under a different name... well - there's nothing wrong with hoping, is there?

#2550 Bruce

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 21:51

(1) Mac won’t let him leave with a number 1 on his car – I think Hammi’s now doomed to low tire pressure, less preferential strategy, Button doing whatever he wants with no penalty from the team and god know what else – I wouldn’t be surprised if Hamilton and his fans are screaming for FIA delegates to be in his pit before the end of this season just to make sure there are no shenanigans by those who are famous for it.


I don't know if I buy this argument - I think McLaren will let him race and won't hamper him... but it'll be harder - the team will be distant and he'll have to make his own luck. But I'd be surprised if McLaren actively worked against him.