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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#2801 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:37

I recall 2 mistakes from him this year. Australia and China.


Which is very rarely, no?

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#2802 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:43

The way he was driving the POS F2012 at the start of the year it's a wonder it wasn't spitting him into the wall every corner!

#2803 canaus

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:44

Which is very rarely, no?


Maybe or maybe not. Every mistake counts and China one surely did.
Still don't have an answer what was Kimi trying to do there. He had no hope to gain something there. And it's not usual to Kimi just to hang around for nothing

Edited by canaus, 07 October 2012 - 14:45.


#2804 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 14:55

So these are the terrible words Alonso is being criticised for...

Link provided by Porsan at PF1:
http://www.antena3.c...ormula-1/mundia ... 00012.html
Journalist: Fernando, it's a pity, because seeing how the race is unfolding (they are on lap 38 at the moment of the interview) you could have been way up
Alonso: Well, you never know how it would have gone, it was a pity about the start, I think Raikkonen touched me a little on the rear tyre, I got a puncture, and then I coudn't take the first turn, but anyway that's racing, sometimes it happens to us, sometimes it happens to the others, and now we have to think about the next one.
Journalist: You have been watching the race, I suppose, you see how Vettel is first, you would have done your calculations, if it finishes like this, well, we are talking a bit in advance, but you would be just four points ahead of him. Are you worried in excess?
Alonso: No, I have spent years being 50 points behind the leader, hence I am now 4 points ahead, there are five races to go, it's like a mini-championship, let's say, with both of us starting on equal points and waiting to see who scores more points in five races, so we have to try to score one more point than him in these five (races), and well, let's see if we get back a bit of luck
Journalist: The positive thing is Massa's pace, he can achieve his first podium in a long time, 35 races, that means that the Ferrari in qualy is not that good but in the race you can be there, fighting
Alonso: (Looks doubtful) Well, I think it is a bit the chances of the race that Felipe is second, yesterday we saw again the car's shortfalls, sixth and eleventh, we have had the same car for the last six races, without installing any new bits, and it is a bit thanks to the circumstances, to Felipe doing a perfect race, driving well, there are people with much faster cars that are making one mistake after another, going off track and so on, and thank's to Felipe's good job he is second.
Journalist: Thanks, Fernando

#2805 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:03

So these are the terrible words Alonso is being criticised for...


He clearly is the devil.;)
But seriously, there was another one where he did say that he does not know what Kimi's plan for that corner was. Which I have absolutely no problem with

Edit: Wow there is now a separate thread for this :rolleyes:

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 07 October 2012 - 18:02.


#2806 Gintonious

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:11

Nice read, gives a good insight as to how Fernando thinks.

#2807 ayali

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:15

So these are the terrible words Alonso is being criticised for...

Thanks for that :up:

Eloquent and measured
typical Alonso I'd say
nothing wrong with his words

#2808 Watkins74

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:16

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Fernando knows he can't lose positions on the start because of the cars pace and it just didn't work out this time.

Vettel has a gun and Alonso has a spitball. (exaggerated to make a point)  ;)

#2809 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:27

Nice read, gives a good insight as to how Fernando thinks.

Benson is notoriously known as one of the biggest Alonso fanboys out there, trying to pass as a serious journalist. Move along.

#2810 Gintonious

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:46

Benson is notoriously known as one of the biggest Alonso fanboys out there, trying to pass as a serious journalist. Move along.


He isn't the worst, calm down.

#2811 JimiKart

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:51

Benson is notoriously known as one of the biggest Alonso fanboys out there, trying to pass as a serious journalist. Move along.


that's pretty funny, what will you say when he offers a good word about flexi-wing boy?

#2812 Bruce

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 17:04

I think Alonso is in trouble now - why? Well - because now Ferrari DO have to rely upon the misfortunes of others. That is, unless you believe that Ferrari has race-winning pace... and in their current state, that doesn't look the case...

#2813 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 17:12

that's pretty funny, what will you say when he offers a good word about flexi-wing boy?

Let me know when he does that. He sure didn't in that piece.
Also - lol@flexi-wing boy :p

He isn't the worst, calm down.

You are right. The worst is Lobato. By a longshot.

Edited by Desdirodeabike, 07 October 2012 - 17:14.


#2814 muramasa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:18

So these are the terrible words Alonso is being criticised for...

Link provided by Porsan at PF1:
http://www.antena3.c...ormula-1/mundia ... 00012.html
Journalist: Fernando, it's a pity, because seeing how the race is unfolding (they are on lap 38 at the moment of the interview) you could have been way up
Alonso: Well, you never know how it would have gone, it was a pity about the start, I think Raikkonen touched me a little on the rear tyre, I got a puncture, and then I coudn't take the first turn, but anyway that's racing, sometimes it happens to us, sometimes it happens to the others, and now we have to think about the next one.
Journalist: You have been watching the race, I suppose, you see how Vettel is first, you would have done your calculations, if it finishes like this, well, we are talking a bit in advance, but you would be just four points ahead of him. Are you worried in excess?
Alonso: No, I have spent years being 50 points behind the leader, hence I am now 4 points ahead, there are five races to go, it's like a mini-championship, let's say, with both of us starting on equal points and waiting to see who scores more points in five races, so we have to try to score one more point than him in these five (races), and well, let's see if we get back a bit of luck
Journalist: The positive thing is Massa's pace, he can achieve his first podium in a long time, 35 races, that means that the Ferrari in qualy is not that good but in the race you can be there, fighting
Alonso: (Looks doubtful) Well, I think it is a bit the chances of the race that Felipe is second, yesterday we saw again the car's shortfalls, sixth and eleventh, we have had the same car for the last six races, without installing any new bits, and it is a bit thanks to the circumstances, to Felipe doing a perfect race, driving well, there are people with much faster cars that are making one mistake after another, going off track and so on, and thank's to Felipe's good job he is second.
Journalist: Thanks, Fernando

:)
earlier in this thread I made this post

in hindsight and by watching replays it's easy to say he shouldve left more room to his left, but does it look that bad? Just a racing incident that happens time to time to me no matter how I look at it. even if it's his fault, what's the big deal? and he does this for the first time in how many races? and making big out of what he told in not his mother language, right.

and someone replied this

If Fernando had owned up and something on the lines of: "...we had a battle with Kimi and unfortunately for me I clipped his wing. Ended my race and that is too bad. Mistakes happen - I can only hope that my quota is up now."

Everyone would've said what a down-to-earth guy FA is and how unfortunate it was for a small mistake to end his race. Now that he does nothing of that sort, he gets grilled. On merit I might add.

:rolleyes:
English isnt my language either but to me he appears to have said something on the lines of exactly that.



#2815 Disgrace

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:30

The championship is closer now, but unfortunately I think that will be prove to be an illusion given the cars relative pace to the Red Bull. What a shame, really gutted for Alonso and the championship.

#2816 P123

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:55

The championship is closer now, but unfortunately I think that will be prove to be an illusion given the cars relative pace to the Red Bull. What a shame, really gutted for Alonso and the championship.


A Ferrari was second in the race. With the slower driver.

#2817 as65p

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:51

I will remember your stance if/when Lewis is involved in another incident :wave:


The trick is to apply that memory at the right time, when Hamilton is involved in a similar incident. Can you spot the keyword here? :wave:



#2818 as65p

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:55

A Ferrari was second in the race. With the slower driver.


The Ferraris pace was okay today. Well, by Ferraris 2012 standards it was quite good actually, certainly above average. Then again, two McLarens and the other Red Bull should have finished in front (on pace), if not for various mess-ups / mishaps befalling them.

#2819 Bruce

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:12

A Ferrari was second in the race. With the slower driver.


And therein lies the disaster.

Had Alonso not been punted out, he'd likely have had the second. As it is, he missed out on an unusual number of snafus by other teasm;

to whit -
McLaren - JB gearbox change and apparent trouble during the race with same.
LH - Set up problem that left him 17 seconds down on his team mate.

Red Bull - Getting hammered by that idiot Grosjean.

No - in normal circumstances Massa - or Alonso - would likely have finished 3rd today - if they were lucky. Vettel was absolutely stroking it. had Alonso been behind I'm almost positive given the relative lap times that Vettel could have stepped it up a second or two. He was simply taking it easy.

I'm gutted - but the only way that Alonso wins the WDC is if Red Bull have atrocious reliability. Or if Grosjean qualifies anywhere near Vettel...

The Red Bulls are gonna walk it. Watch.

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#2820 Skinnyguy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 22:31

The Ferraris pace was okay today. Well, by Ferraris 2012 standards it was quite good actually, certainly above average. Then again, two McLarens and the other Red Bull should have finished in front (on pace), if not for various mess-ups / mishaps befalling them.


Red Bull was untouchable, but how exactly you get to the conclussion that McLaren boys should have ended in front of Ferrari boys after watching the race?


#2821 seahawk

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:52

Maybe we have rain in Korea....

#2822 HPT

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:10

Maybe we have rain in Korea....


The car is so different now compared to the one that was good in the rain. And RBR is a different car now too, as are the McLarens. I'm not sure if Ferrari still has the same advantage in the wet. I hope they do, but I won't count on it. Ferrari simply has to start bringing updates that work. The only silver lining is that they have conclusively decided that the windtunnel in Maranello does not work and will therefore be using the Toyota tunnel exclusively. Whether they will come up with something significant enough, only time will tell.

#2823 ViMaMo

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:15

Hope Pastor/Romain bulldoze Vettel. No hopes for Korea.

#2824 Gintonious

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:25

So far this season he has been out driving the car, now he has to out drive himself.

I still have hope that we can put in a good fight!

#2825 as65p

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 08:29

Red Bull was untouchable, but how exactly you get to the conclussion that McLaren boys should have ended in front of Ferrari boys after watching the race?


Quite simple, without JB's gearbox penalty and Hamilton messing his setup theMcLarens should have started from the first two rows and have a fairly easy time staying ahead of Alonso/Massa starting 7th and 11th.

#2826 bmardini

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:42

And therein lies the disaster.

Had Alonso not been punted out, he'd likely have had the second. As it is, he missed out on an unusual number of snafus by other teasm;

to whit -
McLaren - JB gearbox change and apparent trouble during the race with same.
LH - Set up problem that left him 17 seconds down on his team mate.

Red Bull - Getting hammered by that idiot Grosjean.

No - in normal circumstances Massa - or Alonso - would likely have finished 3rd today - if they were lucky. Vettel was absolutely stroking it. had Alonso been behind I'm almost positive given the relative lap times that Vettel could have stepped it up a second or two. He was simply taking it easy.

I'm gutted - but the only way that Alonso wins the WDC is if Red Bull have atrocious reliability. Or if Grosjean qualifies anywhere near Vettel...

The Red Bulls are gonna walk it. Watch.


I totally agree. I really don't understand how anyone can not see that, since Hungary, the Ferrari has consistently been slower than both the RB and Mclaren, and that the RB in particular has looked particularly ominous over the last 3 GP's. This means they have found something. On top of that, Ferrari is totally floundering around not knowing their heads from their asses, sorry to say, and is losing more and more ground.

Still hoping for a miracle, but in motor racing there are no miracles.

#2827 motorhead

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:38

So these are the terrible words Alonso is being criticised for...

Link provided by Porsan at PF1:
http://www.antena3.c...ormula-1/mundia ... 00012.html
Journalist: Fernando, it's a pity, because seeing how the race is unfolding (they are on lap 38 at the moment of the interview) you could have been way up
Alonso: Well, you never know how it would have gone, it was a pity about the start, I think Raikkonen touched me a little on the rear tyre, I got a puncture, and then I coudn't take the first turn, but anyway that's racing, sometimes it happens to us, sometimes it happens to the others, and now we have to think about the next one.
Journalist: You have been watching the race, I suppose, you see how Vettel is first, you would have done your calculations, if it finishes like this, well, we are talking a bit in advance, but you would be just four points ahead of him. Are you worried in excess?
Alonso: No, I have spent years being 50 points behind the leader, hence I am now 4 points ahead, there are five races to go, it's like a mini-championship, let's say, with both of us starting on equal points and waiting to see who scores more points in five races, so we have to try to score one more point than him in these five (races), and well, let's see if we get back a bit of luck
Journalist: The positive thing is Massa's pace, he can achieve his first podium in a long time, 35 races, that means that the Ferrari in qualy is not that good but in the race you can be there, fighting
Alonso: (Looks doubtful) Well, I think it is a bit the chances of the race that Felipe is second, yesterday we saw again the car's shortfalls, sixth and eleventh, we have had the same car for the last six races, without installing any new bits, and it is a bit thanks to the circumstances, to Felipe doing a perfect race, driving well, there are people with much faster cars that are making one mistake after another, going off track and so on, and thank's to Felipe's good job he is second.
Journalist: Thanks, Fernando


No those aren´t the words, these are source

Edited by motorhead, 08 October 2012 - 12:41.


#2828 Massa

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:50

The Ferraris pace was okay today. Well, by Ferraris 2012 standards it was quite good actually, certainly above average. Then again, two McLarens and the other Red Bull should have finished in front (on pace), if not for various mess-ups / mishaps befalling them.


No way Mclaren was faster than Ferrari in race.

#2829 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:50

No those aren´t the words, these are source


Just as harmless though. It's funny how many Kimi fans allegedly like Kimi because he is so cool, when they themselves piss their pants because of a harmless choice of words in a foreign language. Kimi certainly has no problem with what Alonso said.

#2830 revlec

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:54

No way Mclaren was faster than Ferrari in race.


Ferrari is by default slower than RB and McLaren.

#2831 Fontainebleau

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 13:54

No those aren´t the words, these are source

So let me see if I get this right: you are given a video in which Alonso himself is speaking, yet you think that it is more accurate to go to an article in which a journalist has translated the bits he thought most interesting and put them together with the journalist's own comments.

Ok then...

#2832 kosmos

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 14:54

It's so sad that he was going to equal one of Schumacher records some races ago and since them, not only he lost the chance to equal and surpass record, but almost lost all the lead and 2 DNF.



#2833 matthewf1

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:31

I'm getting really fed up with Alonso. All he seems to do is moan about the car. Why did Prost get fired from Ferrari? Didn't he criticise the team? That's pretty much all Alonso does a the mo. He (Alonso) seems to think he is untouchable...but how many titles has he won for Ferrari exactly? His career to date shows a best championship finish for Ferrari of 2nd place, the same as Massa. For LdM to say he is the strongest Ferrari driver ever is rubbish and just massaging ALO's ego.

All season he has just gone on about how the car is cr@p and way too slow compared to the rest. He has brainwashed everyone into thinking that it is rubbish. This has led to numerous journalists and people on this forum kissing his backside over how amazing he is.

His crash on Sunday with Kimi was just stupid and completely his fault. He threw away good points (probably 18), so could still have a 22 point lead.

Go Vettel :clap:

#2834 ferrarijon123

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:40

I'm getting really fed up with Alonso. All he seems to do is moan about the car. Why did Prost get fired from Ferrari? Didn't he criticise the team? That's pretty much all Alonso does a the mo. He (Alonso) seems to think he is untouchable...but how many titles has he won for Ferrari exactly? His career to date shows a best championship finish for Ferrari of 2nd place, the same as Massa. For LdM to say he is the strongest Ferrari driver ever is rubbish and just massaging ALO's ego.

All season he has just gone on about how the car is cr@p and way too slow compared to the rest. He has brainwashed everyone into thinking that it is rubbish. This has led to numerous journalists and people on this forum kissing his backside over how amazing he is.

His crash on Sunday with Kimi was just stupid and completely his fault. He threw away good points (probably 18), so could still have a 22 point lead.

Go Vettel :clap:

Complete rubbish, he doesn't moan about the car, he's just telling the truth that the car isn't as good as the Red bull and Mclaren which it clearly isn't. If you're getting fed up with Alonso that's fine but don't go and post such nonsense. And regarding the Kimi incident on sunday, most drivers could take the blame for that, but it definately all Alonso's fault.

#2835 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:42

I'm getting really fed up with Alonso.


I'm quite sure your dislike for Alonso is not caused by the perceptions you put forward.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 08 October 2012 - 17:54.


#2836 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 00:41

Complete rubbish, he doesn't moan about the car, he's just telling the truth that the car isn't as good as the Red bull and Mclaren which it clearly isn't. If you're getting fed up with Alonso that's fine but don't go and post such nonsense. And regarding the Kimi incident on sunday, most drivers could take the blame for that, but it definately all Alonso's fault.



This is getting out of control.

Alonso's driven better this year than he did in 2010. His errors have been minimal, to be fair.

To me, it was "a racing incident" at the start of a Grand Prix. Shit happens sometimes, all the way down the grid and all one can do to avoid this is qualify the car on Pole and get a clean start. Anything else and you're at the mercy of the fates.

Having said that, if you look at any/most angle(s), Nando did move over and Kimi had nowhere to go. So, in my opinion, it's 50/50 at best...and 75-25 at worst with Nando paying the price of moving over too much.

If (and I stess *if*) a penalty would have been given - and I think there rightly was no penalty - then it would have been given to Alonso. But since Alonso was already out, there was going to be none as being out was 'penalty enough'.

I do think that Fernando has driven extremely well this year and now the battle's vitually level. Anyone thinking it's "all bad luck" need only be reminded that Vettel paid a similar price in Malaysia with Kartheykian. And, on top of that, Vettel's lost at least 35 points due to alternator failures with the Renault engine...And, he got a penalty at Monza that, in my view, he did not deserve.



#2837 Niceone

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:03

To me, it was "a racing incident" at the start of a Grand Prix. Shit happens sometimes, all the way down the grid and all one can do to avoid this is qualify the car on Pole and get a clean start. Anything else and you're at the mercy of the fates.

Alonso had room on his own driving line and he made unnecessary change in driving line without checking is that line free. Rosberg did this same for Alonso at Bahrain. Rosberg moved towards one side of track and Alonso ran out of road. Back then people demanded penalty for Rosberg despite that Alonso were 100% behind Rosberg. Alonso screamed how you always have to leave room. Double standards? It was clear mistake from Alonso..very rare thing, but it did cost a lot.

At the moment it looks like Alonso's championship would require technical difficulties on Vettel's car. RB's car is just on it's own level at the moment and rest of the tracks suits them.

#2838 reason

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:22

Mika Häkkinen says in a finnish paper "Iltasanomat" that it was Kimi's fault. "When the road ends you should just lift", or something like that... Mika said basically the same as Alonso that Kimi shouldn't have even been there. What was he trying to do?

#2839 muelte

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 07:36

Alonso had room on his own driving line and he made unnecessary change in driving line without checking is that line free. Rosberg did this same for Alonso at Bahrain. Rosberg moved towards one side of track and Alonso ran out of road. Back then people demanded penalty for Rosberg despite that Alonso were 100% behind Rosberg. Alonso screamed how you always have to leave room. Double standards? It was clear mistake from Alonso..very rare thing, but it did cost a lot.

At the moment it looks like Alonso's championship would require technical difficulties on Vettel's car. RB's car is just on it's own level at the moment and rest of the tracks suits them.


Alonso was on an overtaking move there, while clearly Kimi wasn't, he was simply behind. Not that it was 100% Kimi's fault, simply a racing incident. The slight movement to the left that Alonso did was probably due to Button moving suddenly to his left where Alonso was, and his reaction was a slight left movement. It was a typical first turn incident, hat's all. Calling for penalties & comparing that to Bahrain is ridiculous.

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#2840 Claudiu

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:07

Problem is that Alonso should not have been there in the first place, he has the most to lose in such scenarios and I think its would have been better to avoid that kind of skirmishes all together, even if he would have lost some some places, he could have easily get those back during the race.

When you are leading, one of the privileges is that you can afford NOT to take risks and that's exactly where Alonso got it wrong in Japan and unfortunately he paid a high price for that.

Edited by Claudiu, 09 October 2012 - 08:08.


#2841 Konsta

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:10

Problem is that Alonso should not have been there in the first place, he has the most to lose in such scenarios and I think its would have been better to avoid that kind of skirmishes all together, even if he would have lost some some places, he could have easily get those back during the race.

When you are leading, one of the privileges is that you can afford NOT to take risks and that's exactly where Alonso got it wrong in Japan and unfortunately he paid a high price for that.

What the heck are you - a sensible poster??? Quit that this instant.

Birelman tried to use the same logic earlier - not blaming FA for the "chop" per se but for once not thinking and taking unnecessary risk.

#2842 motorhead

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:26

So let me see if I get this right: you are given a video in which Alonso himself is speaking, yet you think that it is more accurate to go to an article in which a journalist has translated the bits he thought most interesting and put them together with the journalist's own comments.

Ok then...


No, I just pointed out what was the source for the writings here in this forum. Nothing to fuzz about...

#2843 Torsion

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:29

I think there were two parts to the incident. The second part, where Kimi's front wing and Fernando's rear tire makes contact is in my view a racing incident. I think the puncture actually happened when Fernando moved ever so slightly to the left as a reaction to button - I don't think its either drivers fault, it was a instinctive reaction from Fernando, and from Kimi, I don't think he ever had the time to react to that second move.

On the other hand, going back to the first part of the incident, I think the first move by Fernando was a bit too aggressive on Kimi which ran him out of road and on to the grass. I think if Kimi had lost control and come back in to the field and caused an accident, Fernando would have certainly got a penalty for running him out of road. Just my two cents.

Edited by Torsion, 09 October 2012 - 08:30.


#2844 Niceone

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:36

Alonso was on an overtaking move there, while clearly Kimi wasn't, he was simply behind. Not that it was 100% Kimi's fault, simply a racing incident. The slight movement to the left that Alonso did was probably due to Button moving suddenly to his left where Alonso was, and his reaction was a slight left movement. It was a typical first turn incident, hat's all. Calling for penalties & comparing that to Bahrain is ridiculous.

If Kimi had been simply behind there wouldn't have been any contact. At Bahrain Alonso were fully behind and contact was avoided. Also run off areas at Bahrain were asphalt unlike here. Some people have suggested that Räikkönen should have lifted, but doing that during start is dangerous.

Posted Image

Alonso had enough room on his right. This crash is all about either Alonso's over reaction or he simple forgot to check is that new driving line free before making move.
Penalties? No thanks. In the end it was really small mistake and those happen to everyone.

Edited by Niceone, 09 October 2012 - 08:37.


#2845 swerved

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:08

So let me see if I get this right: you are given a video in which Alonso himself is speaking, yet you think that it is more accurate to go to an article in which a journalist has translated the bits he thought most interesting and put them together with the journalist's own comments.

Ok then...



No translation required.

http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be


#2846 prty

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:57

Apparently, according to Twitter:

- First DNF: September 2nd (St. Raquel's day)
- Second DNF: October 7th (Virgin Rosario's day)

Someone has been playing voodoo? :D

#2847 Jejking

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:19

And soon it will be Halloween. That's gonna be a nightmare for Fernando xD

#2848 Hanzo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:20

Posted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image

#2849 showtime

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:35



WTF? :rotfl: :rotfl:

#2850 Sinceref189

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:39

:rotfl: that was epic from alonso.