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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#2901 mardmarium

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:53

I have to say this.

I'm not exactly an Alonso fan (I'm not a driver fan) although objectively speaking I consider Alonso the best current driver.

Alonso has been faster than Massa during all the season, now we have one single race in which Massa has been faster and this thread, Alonso´s thread, is full of people criticizing Alonso, some people saying that he doesn´t deserve the title. Really, what?


Why so much hate against Alonso? has he done something to you? do you know him personally?



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#2902 joshb

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:59

Saved face today with a podium, but as a Seb fan the biggest fear i have is a DNF. If we get 4 normal smooth races, he'll do it, if there's any trouble, Alonso has to pounce.

#2903 kosmos

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:03

Fernando on twitter:

We will enjoy a lot in these next races ...



He expect big updates for the car or he is going to race in full attack mode no matter what, that's good news :up:


#2904 prty

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:06

I think prty was trying to be ironic after the stupid comment by krea


Yep  ;)


#2905 Kelateboy

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:27

I don't see Vettel winning any races anymore.

At least you are man enough to admit your mistake.... :D


#2906 Lights

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:58

At least you are man enough to admit your mistake.... :D

Well, mistake... a slightly inaccurate prediction? :D

Point is that back then I never predicted McLaren to fail this badly, and I thought Red Bull just 'suited' Singapore.

#2907 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:02

Alonso's ability is largely untested hype. that's not to say he isn't but I hope Massa has regained his mojo properly now so there isn't such a cakewalk in that team.


Yep, he hasn't been in F1 for long and hasn't won anything.


#2908 exogenesis1203

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:22

I have to say this.

I'm not exactly an Alonso fan (I'm not a driver fan) although objectively speaking I consider Alonso the best current driver.

Alonso has been faster than Massa during all the season, now we have one single race in which Massa has been faster and this thread, Alonso´s thread, is full of people criticizing Alonso, some people saying that he doesn´t deserve the title. Really, what?


Why so much hate against Alonso? has he done something to you? do you know him personally?


As slow as Massa is(or was?), it feels like there are a lot of Massa fans around this part. Stunts like "You're too close to Fernando" of course will brinng in the bandwagon here. And then there's stuff like spygate or crashgate etc.
To put it clearer, Flavio's treatment of fisi, Alonso's behavior at Mclaren, Flavior's treatment of Piquet, Grosjean make people here really doubtful of Alonso's uh.....teammate handling skill. Combine with the fact that Massa is extemely well by most fans and people in the sports, bashing is to be expected when once in a little while Massa finally did a great job and has great pace that can beat Alonso.

*Just stating why Alonso has so much people that loves to hate him*

Edited by exogenesis1203, 14 October 2012 - 11:25.


#2909 mardmarium

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:48

As slow as Massa is(or was?), it feels like there are a lot of Massa fans around this part. Stunts like "You're too close to Fernando" of course will brinng in the bandwagon here. And then there's stuff like spygate or crashgate etc.
To put it clearer, Flavio's treatment of fisi, Alonso's behavior at Mclaren, Flavior's treatment of Piquet, Grosjean make people here really doubtful of Alonso's uh.....teammate handling skill. Combine with the fact that Massa is extemely well by most fans and people in the sports, bashing is to be expected when once in a little while Massa finally did a great job and has great pace that can beat Alonso.

*Just stating why Alonso has so much people that loves to hate him*




strange feeling this "love to hate someone"...

Your favourite driver is what he is, he is not better or worse depending on how much you hate other driver...not even depending on how good/bad other driver is

How can people decide "who is the best/deserve to win" if they are not even able to see what is happening objectively...enjoy loving to hate someone is not the proper way to decide anything

#2910 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:52

As slow as Massa is(or was?), it feels like there are a lot of Massa fans around this part. Stunts like "You're too close to Fernando" of course will brinng in the bandwagon here. And then there's stuff like spygate or crashgate etc.
To put it clearer, Flavio's treatment of fisi, Alonso's behavior at Mclaren, Flavior's treatment of Piquet, Grosjean make people here really doubtful of Alonso's uh.....teammate handling skill. Combine with the fact that Massa is extemely well by most fans and people in the sports, bashing is to be expected when once in a little while Massa finally did a great job and has great pace that can beat Alonso.

*Just stating why Alonso has so much people that loves to hate him*


You realize that you deduct Alonsos character from the behaviour of team bosses mostly? What about Trulli, Fisi, Piquet, Grosjean, nowadays Hamilton even, all being on good terms with Alonso? Doesn't fit the picture, eh?

#2911 JKTRacing

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:57

Why so much hate against Alonso? has he done something to you? do you know him personally?

People who follow sports generally can fit in 3 categories (with some people falling in between)

1) People who love/know the sport first, then might have a favourite driver
2) People who can only follow the sport if they have a favourite driver (this tend to be the most biased)
3) And then there is the people who watch the sport for the drama and get a kick from criticising millionaires about how (insert insult here), they do this to inflate their own ego and kill their insecurities, the same way people like to follow celebrities. Its a well known social disorcer.


I have yet to see someone from Category 1 that thinks that Alonso is not one of the top drivers in the grid, and even all time, and I try not to waste time with 2nd and 3rd categories.

Edited by JKTRacing, 14 October 2012 - 12:00.


#2912 mardmarium

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:09

People who follow sports generally can fit in 3 categories (with some people falling in between)

1) People who love/know the sport first, then might have a favourite driver
2) People who can only follow the sport if they have a favourite driver (this tend to be the most biased)
3) And then there is the people who watch the sport for the drama and get a kick from criticising millionaires about how (insert insult here), they do this to inflate their own ego and kill their insecurities, the same way people like to follow celebrities. Its a well known social disorcer.


I have yet to see someone from Category 1 that thinks that Alonso is not one of the top drivers in the grid, and even all time, and I try not to waste time with 2nd and 3rd categories.



:up: Perfectly well explained

#2913 exogenesis1203

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:13

You realize that you deduct Alonsos character from the behaviour of team bosses mostly? What about Trulli, Fisi, Piquet, Grosjean, nowadays Hamilton even, all being on good terms with Alonso? Doesn't fit the picture, eh?

Only stating what most people around here seems to hate him for, not stating my own opinion.

#2914 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:16

Only stating what most people around here seems to hate him for, not stating my own opinion.


Strange, why would you feel the need to talk on behalf of that nebolous group 'most people'?

#2915 exogenesis1203

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:48

Strange, why would you feel the need to talk on behalf of that nebolous group 'most people'?

Because this forum is basically one giant ground hog day where the same points just go round and round and round?It's not that hard to sum up everything that happens in this forum in 200 words or less

#2916 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:54

Because this forum is basically one giant ground hog day where the same points just go round and round and round?It's not that hard to sum up everything that happens in this forum in 200 words or less


Still doesn't answer why you'd feel the need to do so. Instead of contributing your very own thoughts and opinions.

#2917 Fontainebleau

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:14

As slow as Massa is(or was?), it feels like there are a lot of Massa fans around this part. Stunts like "You're too close to Fernando" of course will brinng in the bandwagon here. And then there's stuff like spygate or crashgate etc.
To put it clearer, Flavio's treatment of fisi, Alonso's behavior at Mclaren, Flavior's treatment of Piquet, Grosjean make people here really doubtful of Alonso's uh.....teammate handling skill. Combine with the fact that Massa is extemely well by most fans and people in the sports, bashing is to be expected when once in a little while Massa finally did a great job and has great pace that can beat Alonso.

*Just stating why Alonso has so much people that loves to hate him*

I think that you will find out that it is not Massa fans who love to hate Alonso in this thread, or their love for Massa that make people come here to bash Alonso.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 14 October 2012 - 14:15.


#2918 revmeister

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:41

It's clear to me that Massa was crowding Alonso during a tire management phase. During the last 10 laps Alonso dropped Massa, but never really had the pace to reel in Weber, although he did reduce the gap. This tactic has been a trade mark of Alonso's all season, and one that has paid off well for the most part.
A little disappointed in Massa's radio play suggesting that Alonso let him by to challenge Webber. The guy has been a charity case for then last two seasons. He finally has a couple of decent races and he starts pulling this sh*t?
Personally I'd like to see Hukenberg in that seat next year.

#2919 George Costanza

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:47

Solid race from Fernando. I hope the Ferrari can mantain some more race pace in order to challenge the RBRs....I think it will come down to the last race; Brazil, which has been quite kind and good to Fernando and Ferrari.

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#2920 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:08

It's clear to me that Massa was crowding Alonso during a tire management phase.

:kiss: :wave: so hard to admit that this time alonso was just slower?

#2921 garoidb

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:49

:kiss: :wave: so hard to admit that this time alonso was just slower?


Unfortunately, we have no proof of that. Why not? Because one of the Ferrari drivers is so far behind the other in the WDC that he has no remit to interfere with his team and team-mates WDC chances. The current races will tell us nothing about the relative merits of Alonso and Massa, since both have different jobs to do.

I welcome Felipe's return to form (I like him and I'd love to see Ferrari get 2nd in the WCC), but he is just doing what he should always have been doing, and if he had done it consistently then he too would be a WDC contender. For Felipe, 2013 is the opportunity to race with Alonso. He lost 2012 a long time ago.

There was no race between Alonso and Massa today.

#2922 aditya-now

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:54

I have to say this.

I'm not exactly an Alonso fan (I'm not a driver fan) although objectively speaking I consider Alonso the best current driver.

Alonso has been faster than Massa during all the season, now we have one single race in which Massa has been faster and this thread, Alonso´s thread, is full of people criticizing Alonso, some people saying that he doesn´t deserve the title. Really, what?


Why so much hate against Alonso? has he done something to you? do you know him personally?


The phenomenon you describe is amazing indeed. For nearly all season Alonso has been hailed as the best driver from all corners, and now one race where Massa finally managed to catch up - this reaction.

Very balanced view, I must say - there are people who are obviously having a lot of issues.


#2923 sniper80

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 20:28

I don't understand the Massa praise songs. He should have been doing this all year in the Ferrari! It's unbelievable that the prancing horse is about to give him another contract. Kick him out!
Knowing Massa, he will probably be crap again in the next race, he has a few circuits where he is quick (like Bahrain, Interlagos, ... but on others ususally very slow).
Alonso is the best driver of the year, just as in 2010, loosing out to a better car. Alonso in the Red Bull would have sealed the title by now :)


#2924 EvanRainer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 20:35

Alonso in the Red Bull would have sealed the title by now :)


Are you actually watching the races? Because I doubt it.

Oh pray tell us, how would he have magically done that?

#2925 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 20:58

Are you actually watching the races? Because I doubt it.

Oh pray tell us, how would he have magically done that?


He is totally right. In races when Red Bull was good, but not dominant, Vettel was avarage. Fernando should get a dominant car, he would snatch the title after the first race.

#2926 EvanRainer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:01

lol, you mean the races where RedBull was struggling to get into Q3? And Vettel has had a fantastic season, almost always making the best of the situation in every GP. You would know if you were paying attention.

And Alonso isn't even a good qualifier. He had a dominant as you like to call it car at Monza and blew it.

#2927 selespeed

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:06

He had a dominant as you like to call it car at Monza and blew it.


were you paying atention??

#2928 F1FAN013

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:06

lol, you mean the races where RedBull was struggling to get into Q3? And Vettel has had a fantastic season, almost always making the best of the situation in every GP. You would know if you were paying attention.

And Alonso isn't even a good qualifier. He had a dominant as you like to call it car at Monza and blew it.


How on earth did Alonso blew it in Monza when the car let him down in qualifying. :confused: He maximized the potential of that car by finishing 3rd from that position...

Edited by F1FAN013, 14 October 2012 - 21:07.


#2929 EvanRainer

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:19

How on earth did Alonso blew it in Monza when the car let him down in qualifying. :confused: He maximized the potential of that car by finishing 3rd from that position...


That is EXACTLY the point I wasn't trying to make. If you noticed the posts I was REPLYING to, they implied somehow Vettel was not doing that.

I did not come in here to discredit Alonso, I was responding to people.

#2930 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 22:58

Unfortunately, we have no proof of that. Why not? ...

There was no race between Alonso and Massa today.


Alonso was giving it full bananas to try and catch Webber. Yet Felipe looked to be able to go faster than that if Alonso wasn't in the way. Not rocket science.

Jesus, it's not the end of the world being outpaced once a year, especially when your teammate is driving well, and Felipe has done so recently.


#2931 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:01

Alonso was giving it full bananas to try and catch Webber. Yet Felipe looked to be able to go faster than that if Alonso wasn't in the way. Not rocket science.

Jesus, it's not the end of the world being outpaced once a year, especially when your teammate is driving well, and Felipe has done so recently.


He was trying to say that Massa was never going to actually race Alonso, despite being obviously faster today.

Jesus, yeah. :rolleyes:

#2932 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:06

He was trying to say that Massa was never going to actually race Alonso, despite being obviously faster today.

Jesus, yeah. :rolleyes:


No. Read. He said we can't know if Massa was faster, because he wasn't racing Alonso.

And it's wrong, they werent racing each other, but there's proof Massa could have gone faster than he did. It's a head in the sand post. Glad you don't do that too.

#2933 as65p

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:23

No. Read. He said we can't know if Massa was faster, because he wasn't racing Alonso.

And it's wrong, they werent racing each other, but there's proof Massa could have gone faster than he did. It's a head in the sand post. Glad you don't do that too.


Okay, you may be right in your interpretation of garoidb's post, we should let him have the last word on it, I guess.

To me it's obvious that Massa could run faster at certain points in the race and would have had a good chance to attack and overtake Alonso if he'd been allowed to try (which would have been downright silly at this stage, obviously).

That much, however, is all we can safely assume, I think. No way to know if Massa would have been able to pull a successful move on Alonso (in the hypothetical case they would have been racing), or if he'd been able to pull away significantly, or by how much.

#2934 Skinnyguy

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:34

Just have a cold read of the quoted post and the answer, you won't need any further info.

Agree with with your view. Massa had easily the better pace but had he been in a let's say Force India and no obedience due to Fernando, it's not 100 x cent safe he would have ended in front. I think he would have made it, but pace difference wasn't enough to think he would cruise past and left Alonso for dead. Would have been a tough scrap.

This all is arguable, but not admiting Massa had more pace today is just self deceit.

#2935 garoidb

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 07:03

Agree with with your view. Massa had easily the better pace but had he been in a let's say Force India and no obedience due to Fernando, it's not 100 x cent safe he would have ended in front. I think he would have made it, but pace difference wasn't enough to think he would cruise past and left Alonso for dead. Would have been a tough scrap.


This is part of my point, and I am glad to see you agree with it. There is also the possibility that Alonso was preserving his tyres for a late assault on Webber. He was never trying to race with Felipe, as he knew Felipe would not overtake him. So why worry about him? Felipe may have been trying to make a point, but he does not have the WDC to think about.

This all is arguable, but not admiting Massa had more pace today is just self deceit.


Nope. It could be true, but we will never know.

#2936 kosmos

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:03

There is also the possibility that Alonso was preserving his tyres for a late assault on Webber.


He was, check the audio files on ferrari.com (interview with sky).


#2937 kosmos

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:25

It seems Fernando is going to give no interviews and cut the sponsors events.

http://motorsport.ne...nale,50669.html

I'm not sure what is the point, it's not like less interviews are going to make him drive faster and he is fully focused and committed, I don't think there is any doubt about that.

Edited by kosmos, 15 October 2012 - 09:26.


#2938 Taxi

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:00

I still think Fernando as good chances of winning the title. He has the car, the hability and the team [Massa is even getting better, when it matters]. So a single Vettel mistake or misfortune and that's it. Japan mistake was costly indeed, but Alonso will take it IMO.

#2939 kosmos

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:13

He has the car,


Sure, this way, when he loses it, you can come here and blame him for losing the title.


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#2940 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:19

Sure, this way, when he loses it, you can come here and blame him for losing the title.

And why don't you tell us what is wrong with the car? Domenicali believes that they are close, Gary Anderson believes they are agonisingly close...

Alonso has driven well this year but apart from the early part of the season he has always had a car that is there or there about.

#2941 Taxi

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:33

Sure, this way, when he loses it, you can come here and blame him for losing the title.

Wow. That was agressive. Seems you are already defeated! No way. The car is fast, no doubts, and Alonso is great. Why would one think that Vettel has it in the bag? In my book Alonso is the best driver of the year, so no need to give up.




#2942 Hanzo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:37

Vettel is the favourite, but this is far from over. After Singapur Hamilton fans were thinking he had the car to win the last five races. They had good reasons to think like that, but now all looks very different. Things can change fast in a couple of Gps. One more alternator failure, one puncture, another touch with Kartikheyan... and suddenly the championship is gone. Sadly the same applies for Fernando. Anyway I hope both Vettel and Alonso can finish all the races so there is no silly comments at the end of the season whoever wins.

We need those updates working perfectly, no mistakes, and a couple of Gps where the car is even faster that they could anticipate, even if they are not sure why :lol:

It looks really, really difficult to win this, but I will never forget Japan 2006 :)

#2943 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:42

Vettel is the favourite, but this is far from over. After Singapur Hamilton fans were thinking he had the car to win the last five races. They had good reasons to think like that, but now all looks very different. Things can change fast in a couple of Gps. One more alternator failure, one puncture, another touch with Kartikheyan... and suddenly the championship is gone. Sadly the same applies for Fernando. Anyway I hope both Vettel and Alonso can finish all the races so there is no silly comments at the end of the season whoever wins.

We need those updates working perfectly, no mistakes, and a couple of Gps where the car is even faster that they could anticipate, even if they are not sure why :lol:

It looks really, really difficult to win this, but I will never forget Japan 2006 :)

This more like it and it is not like Ferrari need to find a second in lap time.

#2944 Goron3

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:03

This more like it and it is not like Ferrari need to find a second in lap time.


Exactly. A couple of upgrades that work, like Red Bull have put on the car in the last few races, will let us challenge for race wins.

#2945 eronrules

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:09

Exactly. A couple of upgrades that work, like Red Bull have put on the car in the last few races, will let us challenge for race wins.


provided RBR doesn't clinch the title come COTA :p

#2946 prty

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:15

This more like it and it is not like Ferrari need to find a second in lap time.


Actually looking the times when the Red Bulls bothered to push for some laps during the race, the difference is like that, if not more.

#2947 kosmos

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:22

Wow. That was agressive. Seems you are already defeated! No way. The car is fast, no doubts, and Alonso is great. Why would one think that Vettel has it in the bag? In my book Alonso is the best driver of the year, so no need to give up.



Sorry if I was agressive, I have nothing against you  ;) and I'm not giving up don't worry, but the car is not in the same level as the RB, if it's close or very close it's a matter of opinion I guess.


Edited by kosmos, 15 October 2012 - 11:25.


#2948 Buttoneer

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:30

Posts deleted.

Please remember that we do not have driver v driver threads for a reason. If you wish to discuss aspects of how you think this championship will end, please use one of the many threads set up for that purpose. If you wish to discuss Massa v Alonso, we have a thread for that too. The car itself, and it's technical updates are covered by another thread and if what you want to discuss is in relation to the last race, there is a thread for that.

This thread is for discussion of Fernando Alonso and ONLY Fernando Alonso.

#2949 eronrules

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:31

Exactly. A couple of upgrades that work, like Red Bull have put on the car in the last few races, will let us challenge for race wins.


i applaud your enthusiasm ... but may i remind you that RBR is also bringing a bucket load of updates in India ... and don't get me wrong but if singapore is any indication, and watching LOTUSF1, getting a radical update up and running on the first attempt is very difficult.

the only way i see for FA to win the title is if something like Spa and suzuka befell vettel in the next 2 races, but our boy grosjean seems to have learned his lesson and pastor has been so quiet that last race i thought if he was in venezuella rather in the race. the only thing going for Alonso is his resilience, which i admire. but if RBR locks out another 1-2 in india and if LH/JB locks out 3-4, FA is in deep shit. so it's gonna be a strange last 4 races ... as jake humphrey says ... ITS GONNA BE TASTY :smoking:

#2950 as65p

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:32

It's nice being positive, but in the end it won't give you laptime.

As I see it, Alonso now needs a DNF from Vettel while winning that particular race to still have a chance. Mind you, not even that win and three seconds would be enough in case Vettel wins the other three. :well:

Looking at the points table it's not too bad, but the recent performance gap between the cars paints a far gloomier picture. We must not forget that once again, like sometimes in 2011, RB was limited by tyre wear yet still managed to win comfortably. Without wear issues, the gap would have been much bigger.

Of course, Ferrari could be really lucky with tyre wear being an issue on the remining tracks, or rain, but that's the point, they have to rely on luck. Or pull half a second out of the hat, what chances of that?