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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#3001 Goron3

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:39

Brundle, Kravitz and Jordan hate or deeply dislike Alonso.


2007 still hurts for some people.

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#3002 HPT

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:43

Brundle, Kravitz and Jordan hate or deeply dislike Alonso.


Wow I never knew that. We don't get their commentary this part of the world so this is something new to me. I've always thought that Brundle is pro Alonso for some reason!

#3003 SophieB

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:43

Yeah, once he called him "little bugger" or something like that on air.


He also called him 'Teflonso' on air a few years back in relation to him being at the heart of F1 scandals but always emerging without punishment. With the inference that punishment he thinks there should have been, I guess. The nickname makes no sense if the person saying it believes the target innocent of any blame in the first place. However, he's also been very complimentary about him, and sounded sincere, especially this season. I forget the exact context but earlier this season, the Sky team were discussing all the drivers and when Alonso's name came up, Martin just said "Oh well he is just a marvel, that boy" in the most proud, admiring tone imaginable. Brundle just blows a bit hot and cold on a lot of the drivers in general, I think.

Have I forgotten/missed bad things Ted Kravitz has said about Alonso? From the couple of interviews I've seen Ted carry out with him down the years, I've always got the impression he rather liked him. There is sometimes a slight suggestion in his interviews that, rightly or wrongly, Ted talks to him like he suspects Fernando sees him as a bit of a buffoon to politely tolerated. That's the only thing I could think of.

Edited by SophieB, 25 October 2012 - 09:32.


#3004 korzeniow

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:47

Brundle, Kravitz and Jordan hate or deeply dislike Alonso.


Are you Spanish? If so maby you mistaken their fanboyism-like approach for journalism and you got used to constant praise. Once for a while you can say a bad word too.

Edited by korzeniow, 25 October 2012 - 08:50.


#3005 LiJu914

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:00

From another forum, I'm reading that Brundle said in the Korean post race:

"I think Alonso never really got over losing the 2010 championship and is gonna lose this one, isn't he?"

Sometimes he can't hide his true colors ;)


Yeah well, journos and "experts" like to flip-flop permanently..depending on the current situation ( i dunno how many times Brundle changed his view about the best driver in the past e.g. ).

Would be funny to see Alonso "doing a Schumacher 2000", when everbody thought he´s losing it again, after he lost his comfortable lead within a few races...

Edited by LiJu914, 25 October 2012 - 09:00.


#3006 prty

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:12

Are you Spanish? If so maby you mistaken their fanboyism-like approach for journalism and you got used to constant praise. Once for a while you can say a bad word too.


With Schumacher it was the same, so unless there's a Spanish-German person in here... maybe Frentzen if he visits? Nah he wouldn't defend Schumacher ;)

Also, of course he had to praise Alonso this year, he would look dumb otherwise.

Edited by prty, 25 October 2012 - 09:12.


#3007 kosmos

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 09:25

Are you Spanish? If so maby you mistaken their fanboyism-like approach for journalism and you got used to constant praise. Once for a while you can say a bad word too.



It was Brundle the one who said that Alonso is hard to like but easy to prise, something along those lines, I can't remember the exact quote, and you can pick stuff now and them from all of them, specially Kravitz, always subtle stuff here and there. If you think spanish is the same as constant prise to Alonso, your are dead wrong, Alonso has his fair share of critics in Spain, it's not a 24/7 love fest.

#3008 joshb

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 10:53

Yeah well, journos and "experts" like to flip-flop permanently..depending on the current situation ( i dunno how many times Brundle changed his view about the best driver in the past e.g. ).

Would be funny to see Alonso "doing a Schumacher 2000", when everbody thought he´s losing it again, after he lost his comfortable lead within a few races...


more reminicent of 2006 isn't it? Gets a good lead, then with a few races left the other guy has momentum- i just hope it ends different and the guy with momentum completes the comeback

#3009 Zava

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:12

Reliability is part of the car design though. The car has efficient aero largely due to the way it is packaged. And it that creates reliability problems then it's their fault.

would be true if his failures would've been down to design. but bahrain failure was down to a faulty spark plug, australia was down to an ill fitted wheel / brake problems, none of these occured thanks to tight packaging, more because of bad quality checking.
korea is a tough one, ISTR red bull saying it was down to that engine doing a lot of SC phases (which it didn't like), it was the 3rd race of that engine and both races it was raced before had SC phases. the engine had 1400 kms in it, about 1000 less than the average they lasted. so it could be down to bad circumstances, but could be argued that it was tight packaging. so of his 3 victories lost by failures, 0,5 (korea) was down to tight packaging. not really the part of design, right?

(sorry for OT)

#3010 Jimisgod

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:14

2008 same

2009 same

2010 Alonso

2011 same (perhaps Vettel but car was still a Ferrari F2004-style machine so difficult to say)

2012 Alonso


You can't forget just how bad that car was though, neither of his teammates looked anything like scoring points. And you can whinge and moan about Grosjean not having miles, but his best finish was a 13th and Alonso put that car on the front row twice.


#3011 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 11:21

It was Brundle the one who said that Alonso is hard to like but easy to prise, something along those lines, I can't remember the exact quote, and you can pick stuff now and them from all of them, specially Kravitz, always subtle stuff here and there. If you think spanish is the same as constant prise to Alonso, your are dead wrong, Alonso has his fair share of critics in Spain, it's not a 24/7 love fest.

I remember that quote (of Brundle's). Lately though its been my impression that he has warmed to Alonso a lot more. I dont have any specific examples but i think he, and others, realise just what a great job he's done the past 3 seasons; and this season especially.

#3012 LiJu914

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 12:23

more reminicent of 2006 isn't it? Gets a good lead, then with a few races left the other guy has momentum- i just hope it ends different and the guy with momentum completes the comeback


I referred to 2000, because Brundle mentioned 2010 - Alonso´s "lost" WDC - as others mentioned MSC´s "lost" titles of 97/98 back in 2000 after his lead had vanished with 4 races to go.

Edited by LiJu914, 25 October 2012 - 12:49.


#3013 Longtimefan

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 22:12

I'm not an Alonso fan and I dislike Ferrari but I find myself supporting him simply to stop Seb doing the triple.

:(



#3014 PretentiousBread

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 00:01

Agreed :up:

But then again, that's just my point, Fernando would have walked 2010 and 2012 in a RBR. Against a Vettel or a Hamilton in a Ferrari.


That's a ridiculous leap to make. Hamilton's 2010 was better than Alonso's. Alonso had a great second half, but squandered many points in the first half. Of course since it's Alonso, these mistakes don't fit the template so are ignored and instead his strong second half is ultimately how he is perceived.

For clarification, since then Alonso has been a total machine, and I stand by my opinion that his 2011 was actually more impressive than Vettel's, just that it was shrouded by a semi-competitive car, and he's been the best driver on balance this year, by a whisker from Hamilton. However, Alonso's most rock solid year IMO will remain 2006, barely made a driving error to speak of.

EDIT: ignore my first paragraph, I misread it and thought you were saying Alonso would have walked the title in 2010 in a Red Bull, even with either Vettel or Hamilton as team mate.

Edited by PretentiousBread, 26 October 2012 - 00:03.


#3015 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:16

For clarification, since then Alonso has been a total machine, and I stand by my opinion that his 2011 was actually more impressive than Vettel's, just that it was shrouded by a semi-competitive car, and he's been the best driver on balance this year, by a whisker from Hamilton. However, Alonso's most rock solid year IMO will remain 2006, barely made a driving error to speak of.


IMO 2011 and 2012 are more impressive than 2006 because he has been achieving great results and great consistency in poorer cars. It's a lot easier to be consistent and make few driving errors when out front. 2011 was an amazing season from Alonso that he doesn't get enough credit for. If the Ferrari didn't go to pieces on the hard tyres he would have finished best of the rest behind Vettel in a car that had business to be fighting for such positions. His Spa race was immense until he had to bolt the hard tyres on and the way he pushed Hamilton at Abu Dhabi in an inferior car was brilliant.


#3016 RedOne

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:54

Hoping this championship goes to Alonso, but will always support him no matter what happens.

#3017 fabr68

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 01:59

All things considered this year it has been an amazing campaign for Alonso. Even if he does not get the WDC it could be a good candidate for his best year in F1

#3018 jstrains

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:16

I would not wonder Fernando to leave Ferrari after 2013 if they fail to deliver a winnig car again...

#3019 LiJu914

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:54

IMO 2011 and 2012 are more impressive than 2006 because he has been achieving great results and great consistency in poorer cars. It's a lot easier to be consistent and make few driving errors when out front. 2011 was an amazing season from Alonso that he doesn't get enough credit for. If the Ferrari didn't go to pieces on the hard tyres he would have finished best of the rest behind Vettel in a car that had business to be fighting for such positions. His Spa race was immense until he had to bolt the hard tyres on and the way he pushed Hamilton at Abu Dhabi in an inferior car was brilliant.



If i had to choose 2006 would still be my first choice. There´s often a slight tendency to overrate performances with, what is perceived as poorer equipment - whereas there´s often nothing more to do in the best car than win. Also there will always be an element of hypothetical speculations regarding good seasons with inferior equipment ("if he had car x, i´m sure he would´ve done so and so") - in the other case however, it´s just a plain and simple fact, that you delivered, when you got the chance to.
Alonso used the potential of his car to the max imho. When Renault appeared to be the best car, he won (if he didn´t hit mechanical or other comparable troubles) - when Ferrari appeared to be the best car, he usually finished 2nd between the faster and the slower Ferrari. And the most important factor for me: And he made virtually made not a single mistake that year. That might be also true for 2011, but it´s a different situation, when you have the pressure of a wdc-fight.
And his opponent was a certain Michael Schumacher, who btw. finished the season with 296 points (2010-points-system) or 16,5 points per race. Except for the intra-team-battle in the ultra dominant McLaren Honda in 88 that is the highest score - both in absolute and relative measures - a runner up ever achieved in F1-history....

Edited by LiJu914, 26 October 2012 - 09:09.


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#3020 jstrains

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 10:23

Happy?

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#3021 jeze

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:02

I would not wonder Fernando to leave Ferrari after 2013 if they fail to deliver a winnig car again...


1, Ferrari hire and fire drivers (Prost), not the other way round. Even Räikkönen had to basically be carried out of Ferrari.

2, Alonso has four more years on his highest paid contract in F1.

3, He's fighting for the title for the second time in three years after all.






#3022 jstrains

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:13

Fighting for the title is not what counts. They want to win the titles...

#3023 pusko

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:13

I think Fernando will be closer to Vettel this time...I only hope he'll be close enough so he will put pressure on him during the race.

#3024 mattferg

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:27

So... Alonso does well, and it's because of Alonso, Alonso does badly and it's the F2012's fault?

Vettel does well and it's the RB8, Vettel does badly and it's his fault?

Double standards much?

#3025 H2H

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:36

So... Alonso does well, and it's because of Alonso, Alonso does badly and it's the F2012's fault?

Vettel does well and it's the RB8, Vettel does badly and it's his fault?

Double standards much?


Double standards taken for granted here...

#3026 korzeniow

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:42

So... Alonso does well, and it's because of Alonso, Alonso does badly and it's the F2012's fault?

Vettel does well and it's the RB8, Vettel does badly and it's his fault?

Double standards much?


Where and when Alonso did badly? It's common knowlege that Alonso doesn't have the best car.

This view is shared not only by commin F1 fans, see here: http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=5985463

#3027 Goron3

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:51

So... Alonso does well, and it's because of Alonso, Alonso does badly and it's the F2012's fault?

Vettel does well and it's the RB8, Vettel does badly and it's his fault?

Double standards much?


Lol, matt I can't believe you joined this forum and then one of your first posts is a spam post :rotfl: So tempted to screen cap and facebook it, but I'll just save it for now.

Anyway, when people say 'it's Vettels fault' they are referring to the mistakes he and his team have made this year. Vettel was qualifying poorly through some of the mid season and Webber was toppling him at times too. Moments like Germany, Monza, Malaysia are the things people are referring to.

With Alonso, they are referring to the fact that he is driving a car which clearly is a handful to drive as fast as it can go but the car has some weaknesses. Ferrari haven't provided Alonso or Massa the out and out fastest car since Alonso's time there. In fact, Vettel is the first driver since Schumcher (and Senna) to fall into a regular race winning car for more than 3 seasons (this being his 4th).

That said, Ferrari have clearly improved the car since Australia. I still remember when the Ferrari drivers were barred from talking to the media as the car was so bad!



#3028 mattferg

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:02

Lol, matt I can't believe you joined this forum and then one of your first posts is a spam post :rotfl: So tempted to screen cap and facebook it, but I'll just save it for now.

Anyway, when people say 'it's Vettels fault' they are referring to the mistakes he and his team have made this year. Vettel was qualifying poorly through some of the mid season and Webber was toppling him at times too. Moments like Germany, Monza, Malaysia are the things people are referring to.

With Alonso, they are referring to the fact that he is driving a car which clearly is a handful to drive as fast as it can go but the car has some weaknesses. Ferrari haven't provided Alonso or Massa the out and out fastest car since Alonso's time there. In fact, Vettel is the first driver since Schumcher (and Senna) to fall into a regular race winning car for more than 3 seasons (this being his 4th).

That said, Ferrari have clearly improved the car since Australia. I still remember when the Ferrari drivers were barred from talking to the media as the car was so bad!


Alonso crashing into Raikkonen in Japan - Alonso's fault.

What about Vettel's amazing result in Spa?

In Malaysia Karthekayan crashed into Vettel.

#3029 Goron3

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:17

Alonso crashing into Raikkonen in Japan - Alonso's fault.

What about Vettel's amazing result in Spa?

In Malaysia Karthekayan crashed into Vettel.


1. That was clearly a racing incident, on a very narrow track. Alonso could have avoided it, and so could have Kimi. Simple racing incident. A bit different to say Turkey 2010 where Vettel did the same to Webber.

2. Amazing result at Spa? Yes it was very good but remember that Koba, Grosjean, Lewis, Perez, Maldanardo and Alonso were all taken out on the first lap. He messed up his qualifying lap but was able to salvage a good result due to the T1 incident. That said, some of his overtakes were very good but he was only ever having to pass cars he was clearly faster than.

3. They didn't crash at all. Vettel got a puncture because he misjudged how much space he left the HRT. If he left enough space there wouldn't have been a problem.

Anyway, all those points were completely off topic. Please try and stay on topic in future as it disrupts the thread loads.

So according to twitter (well, Andrew Benson), the Ferrari upgrades were all on Alonso by the end of P2 so clearly thats some great news. Hoping Ferrari can find another tenth or so from set up as race pace as always is very strong. Looking forward to tomorrow!

#3030 Ravenak

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:20

Alonso crashing into Raikkonen in Japan - Alonso's fault.

What about Vettel's amazing result in Spa?

In Malaysia Karthekayan crashed into Vettel.


This has been debated hundreds of times before and doesn't bring anything. Have anything interesting to share with us?

:wave:

#3031 Zava

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:23

1. That was clearly a racing incident, on a very narrow track. Alonso could have avoided it, and so could have Kimi. Simple racing incident. A bit different to say Turkey 2010 where Vettel did the same to Webber.

3. They didn't crash at all. Vettel got a puncture because he misjudged how much space he left the HRT. If he left enough space there wouldn't have been a problem.

so when Alonso steers into Raikkonen, he is not at fault (also, what does "different when he did the same" mean? :confused: ), but when Karthikeyan steers into Vettel, Vettel misjudges it and it is his fault.

Edited by Zava, 26 October 2012 - 12:24.


#3032 Goron3

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:29

so when Alonso steers into Raikkonen, he is not at fault (also, what does "different when he did the same" mean? :confused: ), but when Karthikeyan steers into Vettel, Vettel misjudges it and it is his fault.


I'm not saying that at all. In both cases, Alonso and Vettel should have left more space. However, given the Alonso-Kimi incident was a start incident (where it's already incredibly crowded) it's easy to see it's a racing incident. The Vettel incident was during the race and Vettel had more than enough time to give a bit more space. I'm not saying Vettel was at fault at all, but it was more avoidable for Seb. Both (avoidable) racing incidents imo. Anways, there are separate topics for those debates, can we please not discuss them on here.



#3033 UPRC

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 13:10

I'm not an Alonso fan and I dislike Ferrari but I find myself supporting him simply to stop Seb doing the triple.

:(


Same. I don't mind Alonso, but I loathe Ferrari. I want Alonso to win the title because I feel that he's done a good enough job over the years and really deserves it. I've been really impressed by his driving since he joined Ferrari. It's obvious that he has stepped up his game tremendously.

Vettel is a great driver and that can't be denied, just look at how he beats Webber... but I can't help but wonder what the last few years would have been like if Newey wasn't building rockets? I hate to say that I feel like he was "gifted" the titles since he IS a very good driver, but the quality of Newey's cars in comparison to the others cannot be overlooked. Vettel in Newey's Red Bulls feels similar to Schumacher in Rory Byrne's unbeatable machines. I was a huge Schumacher fan and even I was getting tired of his success.

Please don't let history repeat itself. Come on Ferrari, don't let Alonso down. He's worked hard and deserves a third title.

Edited by UPRC, 26 October 2012 - 13:39.


#3034 mattferg

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:00

Same. I don't mind Alonso, but I loathe Ferrari. I want Alonso to win the title because I feel that he's done a good enough job over the years and really deserves it. I've been really impressed by his driving since he joined Ferrari. It's obvious that he has stepped up his game tremendously.

Vettel is a great driver and that can't be denied, just look at how he beats Webber... but I can't help but wonder what the last few years would have been like if Newey wasn't building rockets? I hate to say that I feel like he was "gifted" the titles since he IS a very good driver, but the quality of Newey's cars in comparison to the others cannot be overlooked. Vettel in Newey's Red Bulls feels similar to Schumacher in Rory Byrne's unbeatable machines. I was a huge Schumacher fan and even I was getting tired of his success.

Please don't let history repeat itself. Come on Ferrari, don't let Alonso down. He's worked hard and deserves a third title.


A winning strategy isn't built on one man's ideas. To get a car that works so seamlessly, and is so much faster than the rest of the field, you need an amazing technical director (Newey), an amazing race strategist (Rocky), an amazing team principal (Horner), and yes, an AMAZING driver. You don't win three championships in a row if even one of these people doesn't do their job fantastically. Brawn and Button - the car was a big help, but Button in 2009 was an amazing driver, as was Schumi in 2004.

Yes, Alonso is a fantastic driver. Better than Vettel? Nope, equal. If Alonso was truly god's gift to racing like everyone seems to say, people would be flocking to work with him from all over the paddock, Newey included. Alonso's great and all, but so is Vettel, so is Hamilton, and rto an extent Raikkonen and Button are also extremely talented. Stop acting like Alonso loses purely because of the car, and Vettel wins purely because of it. It's sad and repetitive, and Ferrari would be chasing Newey, not Vettel, if it were true.


#3035 korzeniow

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:17

A winning strategy isn't built on one man's ideas. To get a car that works so seamlessly, and is so much faster than the rest of the field, you need an amazing technical director (Newey), an amazing race strategist (Rocky), an amazing team principal (Horner), and yes, an AMAZING driver. You don't win three championships in a row if even one of these people doesn't do their job fantastically. Brawn and Button - the car was a big help, but Button in 2009 was an amazing driver, as was Schumi in 2004.

Yes, Alonso is a fantastic driver. Better than Vettel? Nope, equal. If Alonso was truly god's gift to racing like everyone seems to say, people would be flocking to work with him from all over the paddock, Newey included. Alonso's great and all, but so is Vettel, so is Hamilton, and rto an extent Raikkonen and Button are also extremely talented. Stop acting like Alonso loses purely because of the car, and Vettel wins purely because of it. It's sad and repetitive, and Ferrari would be chasing Newey, not Vettel, if it were true.


No, he wasn't. He cracked under pressure and was making many mistakes.

He's world champion thank to the overwhelming adtantage that Brawn had in the first half of the year

#3036 HPT

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:26

A winning strategy isn't built on one man's ideas. To get a car that works so seamlessly, and is so much faster than the rest of the field, you need an amazing technical director (Newey), an amazing race strategist (Rocky), an amazing team principal (Horner), and yes, an AMAZING driver. You don't win three championships in a row if even one of these people doesn't do their job fantastically. Brawn and Button - the car was a big help, but Button in 2009 was an amazing driver, as was Schumi in 2004.

Yes, Alonso is a fantastic driver. Better than Vettel? Nope, equal. If Alonso was truly god's gift to racing like everyone seems to say, people would be flocking to work with him from all over the paddock, Newey included. Alonso's great and all, but so is Vettel, so is Hamilton, and rto an extent Raikkonen and Button are also extremely talented. Stop acting like Alonso loses purely because of the car, and Vettel wins purely because of it. It's sad and repetitive, and Ferrari would be chasing Newey, not Vettel, if it were true.


That bolded part makes no sense at all. RBR did try to recruit Alonso back in 2008, but engineers flocking to work with drivers whom they have never worked with before? When has that ever happened?

#3037 kosmos

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:37

It's sad and repetitive, and Ferrari would be chasing Newey, not Vettel, if it were true.


Good news for you, Ferrari tried to hire Newey, more than once.

#3038 Hanzo

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:43

Yes, Alonso is a fantastic driver. Better than Vettel? Nope, equal.




Na, Alonso is better. It is just the opinion of F1 drivers anyway :lol:

http://www.autoevolu...cers-22754.html

http://www.f1-fansit...s-best-in-2012/




#3039 Goron3

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:45

A winning strategy isn't built on one man's ideas. To get a car that works so seamlessly, and is so much faster than the rest of the field, you need an amazing technical director (Newey), an amazing race strategist (Rocky), an amazing team principal (Horner), and yes, an AMAZING driver. You don't win three championships in a row if even one of these people doesn't do their job fantastically. Brawn and Button - the car was a big help, but Button in 2009 was an amazing driver, as was Schumi in 2004.

Yes, Alonso is a fantastic driver. Better than Vettel? Nope, equal. If Alonso was truly god's gift to racing like everyone seems to say, people would be flocking to work with him from all over the paddock, Newey included. Alonso's great and all, but so is Vettel, so is Hamilton, and rto an extent Raikkonen and Button are also extremely talented. Stop acting like Alonso loses purely because of the car, and Vettel wins purely because of it. It's sad and repetitive, and Ferrari would be chasing Newey, not Vettel, if it were true.


This is miles off topic but Newey has been approached by Ferrari twice. Both times he said no because (and this is the obvious bit), he has family in England, hence why he has only ever worked for the likes of Williams, Macca and RB.

Edit. You kind of contradict yourself in that message. The RB has clearly been a much better car than the Ferrari all year yet Alonso was leading Webber and Vettel in the championship. Now, if Alonso and Vettel are equally good, then why wasn't Seb leading Alonso for most of the championship. You can argue that he had a poor season this year but then earlier on in your own post you said 'you don't win three championships in a row if even one of these people doesnt do their job fantastically'.

Finally, it's very clear to see when a driver is being held back by his car (stint times, how hard they push, pace vs teammate etc) and when a driver wins solely because of his car. If you're getting confused by it I'd suggest not watching F1. Let me guess, Villeneuve and Schumacher were equal in 97 as well? The mind boggles.

Edited by Goron3, 26 October 2012 - 15:53.


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#3040 race addicted

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 15:54

I'm not an Alonso fan and I dislike Ferrari but I find myself supporting him simply to stop Seb doing the triple.

:(


Same here! I so hope Alonso can get the lead back this weekend, and keep it. The car looks quick, as always I'd say, on high fuel, and atleast acceptable on low. I think he's got a good chance of qualifying third and from there everything is possible!

#3041 UPRC

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:33

A winning strategy isn't built on one man's ideas. To get a car that works so seamlessly, and is so much faster than the rest of the field, you need an amazing technical director (Newey), an amazing race strategist (Rocky), an amazing team principal (Horner), and yes, an AMAZING driver. You don't win three championships in a row if even one of these people doesn't do their job fantastically. Brawn and Button - the car was a big help, but Button in 2009 was an amazing driver, as was Schumi in 2004.

Yes, Alonso is a fantastic driver. Better than Vettel? Nope, equal. If Alonso was truly god's gift to racing like everyone seems to say, people would be flocking to work with him from all over the paddock, Newey included. Alonso's great and all, but so is Vettel, so is Hamilton, and rto an extent Raikkonen and Button are also extremely talented. Stop acting like Alonso loses purely because of the car, and Vettel wins purely because of it. It's sad and repetitive, and Ferrari would be chasing Newey, not Vettel, if it were true.


You took what I said, sort of replied to it, and then you just ran off in a completely different direction. I didn't say that Vettel was better than Alonso and I never indicated that he was a god among men in terms of driving ability (I still rate Raikkonen as the absolute best, take that how you will). Until I see them in even equipment, I'm going to say that their skill levels are totally interchangeable. It's not wrong to say that the Red Bull is better than the Ferrari right now, and I dislike Red Bull more than I dislike Ferrari.

I don't get why some folks on here act like comparing Alonso to Vettel, or Ferrari to Red Bull, is such a sin. Why heck, what else are we supposed to compare the top drivers/teams to? So guys, how about that Pedro de la Rosa!?


Anyway, hopefully these new upgrades to the Ferrari show some better form in FP3. It's been a bit sad seeing Alonso squandering around in 5th and 6th position lately after the sensational season he's had.

Edited by UPRC, 26 October 2012 - 16:37.


#3042 seahawk

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:37

I personally think there are 2 persons in F1 who have dominated the championship. They are Adrian Newey and Rory Byrne.I bet that you could have taken any top driver, put him into one of the cars from those 2 designers and they would have fought for the title. In some years even a medicore driver could have won the title in one of those cars.

#3043 UPRC

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 16:41

I personally think there are 2 persons in F1 who have dominated the championship. They are Adrian Newey and Rory Byrne.I bet that you could have taken any top driver, put him into one of the cars from those 2 designers and they would have fought for the title. In some years even a medicore driver could have won the title in one of those cars.


Eddie Irvine almost did. :D

But seriously, I agree 100%. Byrne and Newey don't make racing cars, they make rockets!

#3044 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 17:51

Alonso crashing into Raikkonen in Japan - Alonso's fault.

What about Vettel's amazing result in Spa?

In Malaysia Karthekayan crashed into Vettel.


How can someone crash into somwony who is coming from behind? :)
Alonso didn't put a wrong foot there. Was he supposed to have eyes on the back of his head? Or was he supposed to fly into the air?

Edited by FerrariAlonso, 26 October 2012 - 18:02.


#3045 seahawk

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 18:14

Eddie Irvine almost did. :D

But seriously, I agree 100%. Byrne and Newey don't make racing cars, they make rockets!


This is one of the most overlooked facts of F1 imho. While drivers are compared by all possible means, we have no discussion in this forum for the question, why are other designers not able of designing constantly front running cars.

#3046 Afterburner

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 19:13

This is one of the most overlooked facts of F1 imho. While drivers are compared by all possible means, we have no discussion in this forum for the question, why are other designers not able of designing constantly front running cars.

Because--be it because of media hype or some sort of deranged gladitorial romanticism--the masses who watch F1 would much rather idolise the bloke in the car who's risking life and limb than the bloke on the pit wall whose effort allows him to do so (and do so quite safely, I might add). There's nothing thrilling to most people (generally those with short attention spans) about spending most of one's lifetime ascertaining a deep and intimate understanding of complex physical science, utilizing this understanding to its fullest to sketch something on a notepad, and then watching it go from an idea into one of the world's fastest racing machines. I'd say that the teams and designers don't deserve the ignorance, but they're probably too mature to care--unlike some of the drivers.

But this is largely a topic for another thread. :blush:

#3047 choyothe

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 20:41

How people can actually argue Suzuka wasn't Alonso's fault is unbelievable to me. OTOH there were people who thought Vettel's penalty in Monza was justified so maybe I shouldn't be too surprised.

Edited by choyothe, 26 October 2012 - 20:41.


#3048 Rybo

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 20:52

Fred has really grown on me and I hope the updated f2012 will allow him to challenge Vettel. Although after FP I'm hoping for a good sataturday and a better sunday to him to retake the WDC lead and hopefully for good.

#3049 as65p

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 21:12

How people can actually argue Suzuka wasn't Alonso's fault is unbelievable to me. OTOH there were people who thought Vettel's penalty in Monza was justified so maybe I shouldn't be too surprised.


No really, you shouldn't. I have a gut feeling the condition that Vettel is judged at fault more than you'd like to and at the same time Alonso is blamed less than you'd like to is going to prevail until the end of their respective careers.

#3050 JBLeon

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 03:45

Why Fernando, why in the freaking world did you have to go to Ferrari????

Why???????