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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#3051 jstrains

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:04

Whereelse could he go? Stay at McLaren? No. Stay at Renault? No. Go to Red Bull which was just emerging to a winning team? No guarantee for success. Ferrari is Real Madrid of Formula 1. Everybody wants to drive for them.

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#3052 JBLeon

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:28

Whereelse could he go? Stay at McLaren? No. Stay at Renault? No. Go to Red Bull which was just emerging to a winning team? No guarantee for success. Ferrari is Real Madrid of Formula 1. Everybody wants to drive for them.


The most sensible thing to do would've been to stay at McLaren but... he kinda shot himself in the foot. He's wasted so many years now that, even though he's at the top, chances are he will not win another WDC. And no one has done more harm to his career than himself.


#3053 kosmos

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:48

The most sensible thing to do would've been to stay at McLaren but... he kinda shot himself in the foot.


It's easy to say something like that from the outside. Even if you want to think that McLaren did nothing wrong that year and Alonso was the reincarnation of Satan, the fact it's that he was not happy, kudos to him for choosing happiness over success (in theory). And it's not like McLaren has won much, just one WDC.

#3054 Kelateboy

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 04:49

The most sensible thing to do would've been to stay at McLaren but... he kinda shot himself in the foot. He's wasted so many years now that, even though he's at the top, chances are he will not win another WDC. And no one has done more harm to his career than himself.

McLaren was never a choice, but Red Bull was at that point in time.

But of course, we have the benefit of hindsight to question his move. Back then, 99% of Alonso's fans would have approved his decision to go to Ferrari.

#3055 Mc_Silver

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:04

The most sensible thing to do would've been to stay at McLaren but... he kinda shot himself in the foot. He's wasted so many years now that, even though he's at the top, chances are he will not win another WDC. And no one has done more harm to his career than himself.


Alonso fans are coming back to reality :blush: :stoned:

#3056 joshb

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:09

McLaren was never a choice, but Red Bull was at that point in time.

But of course, we have the benefit of hindsight to question his move. Back then, 99% of Alonso's fans would have approved his decision to go to Ferrari.


hindsight is the most wonderful thing. I remember myself and other Vettel fans being edgy about moving to RBR for 2009 but it turned out ok. Ferrari/Alonso for 2010 seemed to be the dream ticket

#3057 Ravenak

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 07:13

Even if he doesn't get any title with Ferrari, he still gifted us with some wonderful emotions. I don't think he will have any regrets, and neither will I.

Edited by Ravenak, 27 October 2012 - 07:13.


#3058 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 08:30

Alonso fans are coming back to reality :blush: :stoned:


The only guys on the grid who made the 100% right team choice these past 5 years are Vettel and Webber. Vettel did not make it on his own volition but because he was a property of Red Bull, and it's questionable how much good it did for Webber and how much choice he had.

Sometimes the dice roll right, and sometimes they don't.

Instead of writing "Why Fernando, why in the freaking world did you have to go to Ferrari???? The most sensible thing to do would've been to stay at McLaren but... he kinda shot himself in the foot. He's wasted so many years now that, even though he's at the top, chances are he will not win another WDC. And no one has done more harm to his career than himself.", one could also say that Hamilton wasted 5 years now with only one WDC to show for one of the most promising career starts ever, and even though he's driving beautifully chances are he will not win another WDC and remain in the 1-WDC class together with DH and JV

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 October 2012 - 08:31.


#3059 revlec

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:33

The only guys on the grid who made the 100% right team choice these past 5 years are Vettel and Webber. Vettel did not make it on his own volition but because he was a property of Red Bull, and it's questionable how much good it did for Webber and how much choice he had.

Sometimes the dice roll right, and sometimes they don't.

Instead of writing "Why Fernando, why in the freaking world did you have to go to Ferrari???? The most sensible thing to do would've been to stay at McLaren but... he kinda shot himself in the foot. He's wasted so many years now that, even though he's at the top, chances are he will not win another WDC. And no one has done more harm to his career than himself.", one could also say that Hamilton wasted 5 years now with only one WDC to show for one of the most promising career starts ever, and even though he's driving beautifully chances are he will not win another WDC and remain in the 1-WDC class together with DH and JV


Wishful thinking. :wave:
not going to happen and to be honest I suspect at the end of 2014 if Fernando has not delivered a WDC, chances are Ferrari will try to hire someone between VET or HAM, because I think the car is not the only problem, but the qualifying speed. And both those guys have at least a tenth or two over the rest.

Edited by revlec, 27 October 2012 - 09:36.


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#3060 kosmos

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:35

Another P5 for the collection........ :cry:

Let's hope he can reach the podium, the clean side will help a little tomorrow.

#3061 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:44

Fernando said after Quali, he's fighting against Newey, not Vettel. Either way, he needs some help from Ferrari Ing's.

#3062 Lights

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:54

McLaren's recovery only makes it trickier for Alonso, they can't beat Red Bull either but form the perfect wall for Vettel.

It's clear he will not be able to beat him on the track in normal circumstances, only retirements can change things around.

#3063 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:54

Another P5 for the collection........ :cry:

Let's hope he can reach the podium, the clean side will help a little tomorrow.


That´s their place right now, no surprise. He did all he could do today, and no one in front made mistakes.

Didn´t like post qualifying words, I´m sick of he dismissing Vettel, but if that´s the way he wants to go...

#3064 Mackey

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:56

Fernando said after Quali, he's fighting against Newey, not Vettel. Either way, he needs some help from Ferrari Ing's.


Well It´s true. Until Newey has given a dominant car to Vettel, Alonso was beating him easily with an inferior car.


#3065 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:56

Wishful thinking. :wave:
not going to happen
and to be honest I suspect at the end of 2014 if Fernando has not delivered a WDC, chances are Ferrari will try to hire someone between VET or HAM, because I think the car is not the only problem, but the qualifying speed. And both those guys have at least a tenth or two over the rest.


Since neither you or I can look into the future, I think that "chances are" was the correct expression. Obviously Ham might achieve 3 Merc WDCs in a row, or Ferrari get their acto together and Alonso will. That was my point ...

Edit: As for quali speed: If Alo had been a tenth quicker, instead of P5 he would have been .... P5. So year, the car is very much the problem

Edit: And there is no wishful thinking in stating that Lewis has 1 WDC to show for 5 years in McL, it's just a fact.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 October 2012 - 10:00.


#3066 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:57

Alonso said they're not fighting against Sebastian only they're fighting against Newey also.

#3067 revlec

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 09:59

That´s their place right now, no surprise. He did all he could do today, and no one in front made mistakes.

Didn´t like post qualifying words, I´m sick of he dismissing Vettel, but if that´s the way he wants to go...


He did repeat the exact same words in the SKY sport(In English) and RAI sport(In Italian) interviews.
I don't understand his reasoning.It's not he is driving a HRT uh? those words are like saying Ferrari engineers are sh*t. :down:

#3068 seahawk

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:00

Alonso said they're not fighting against Sebastian only they're fighting against Newey also.

Spot on, I would say.

#3069 race addicted

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:01

Alonso said they're not fighting against Sebastian only they're fighting against Newey also.


:up: quoted for truth.

Alonso didn't need McLaren being able to rectify their problems with the otions, but they did. Fifth was maximum then. Hopefully - and it should - their better race-pace will kick in tomorrow, but realistically, third will be max tomorrow, and Vettel will stretch his lead.... :mad:

#3070 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 10:03

He did repeat the exact same words in the SKY sport(In English) and RAI sport(In Italian) interviews.
I don't understand his reasoning.It's not he is driving a HRT uh? those words are like saying Ferrari engineers are sh*t. :down:


Their wind tunnel does not work and since Hungary the updates made the car slower overall. No surprise if he's getting frustrated. At least he did not tweet Massa's telemetry ... Ham fans should understand frustration, no?

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 October 2012 - 10:03.


#3071 search

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:18

As for quali speed: If Alo had been a tenth quicker, instead of P5 he would have been .... P5. So year, the car is very much the problem


he did not manage to improve his time on the new set of options - so I do think beating the McLaren would have been in reach today with a perfect lap. Still, he is doing a superb job, but today the car had potential for a little bit more.

#3072 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:21

After having read the actual words, IMHO those who wrote that he is talking Vettel down show a quite selective perception.

“When we had a similar car to everyone I think we were leading the championship, now that we are fighting against Newey’s car, let’s say, because they are first and second in all the races, it’s not only Sebastian. At this point there’s very little to do on Saturday. Normally on Sunday we improve things, we are likely to be more competitive.


http://adamcooperf1....nst-neweys-car/

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 27 October 2012 - 11:22.


#3073 Mc_Silver

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:22

Alonso looked so down after qualifying

#3074 Cenotaph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:38

of course, by "when we had a similar car to everyone" he means "when the other cars breakdown or other guys' pit crews and strategists screw up."

#3075 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:46

After having read the actual words, IMHO those who wrote that he is talking Vettel down show a quite selective perception.



http://adamcooperf1....nst-neweys-car/



People should make an effort to know about stuff before writting about stuff. I have no clue what he said to other press, but he said exactly this to Spanish TV: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, I compete against Newey".

"Ahora no compito contra él, no compito contra Vettel, sino que lo hacemos frente a Adrian Newey [jefe técnico de Red Bull]”

http://deportes.elpa...605_114299.html

Have whatever opinion about it, but let´s get facts straight.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 27 October 2012 - 11:48.


#3076 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:49

Didn´t like post qualifying words, I´m sick of he dismissing Vettel, but if that´s the way he wants to go...

What he said is 100% accurate.

I'm sure you'll choose to pick whatever interpretation fits you best, though.

#3077 Ravenak

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:50

I think he thinks Newey is a cheat, not that Ferrari is doing less than Red Bull.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, of course.

#3078 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:52

I think he thinks Newey is a cheat, not that Ferrari is doing less than Red Bull.

There's nothing to suggest thats what he means. Sounds more like you're putting your own thoughts into it.

#3079 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:55

What he said is 100% accurate.


How he´s not competing against Vettel? You´re the one needing "interpretation" to make things look different, because the statement is plain wrong.

He IS competing against Vettel.


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#3080 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:56

People should make an effort to know about stuff before writting about stuff. I have no clue what he said to other press, but he said exactly this to Spanish TV: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, I compete against Newey".

"Ahora no compito contra él, no compito contra Vettel, sino que lo hacemos frente a Adrian Newey [jefe técnico de Red Bull]”

http://deportes.elpa...605_114299.html

Have whatever opinion about it, but let´s get facts straight.


It's also a fact that apparently in other interviews he said what Cooper quoted. The lesson to be learned is not to get your panties in a twist about the way you understand some single quote.

#3081 showtime

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:56

He did repeat the exact same words in the SKY sport(In English) and RAI sport(In Italian) interviews.
I don't understand his reasoning.It's not he is driving a HRT uh? those words are like saying Ferrari engineers are sh*t. :down:


Maybe the problem is interpretation, maybe if people were not so eager to found controversy...
He's just stating the obvious. At the moment the main fight is to catch RB (Newey) and if things get more leveled he will be able to fight Vettel. Where's the dismiss?

#3082 revlec

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:56

People should make an effort to know about stuff before writting about stuff. I have no clue what he said to other press, but he said exactly this to Spanish TV: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, I compete against Newey".

"Ahora no compito contra él, no compito contra Vettel, sino que lo hacemos frente a Adrian Newey [jefe técnico de Red Bull]”

http://deportes.elpa...605_114299.html

Have whatever opinion about it, but let´s get facts straight.


Those are the exact same words he used when talking to Rai sport(Italian TV).

edit: I must add that I understand very well Spanish and Italian is like my mother tongue.

Edited by revlec, 27 October 2012 - 11:59.


#3083 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:57

How he´s not competing against Vettel? You´re the one needing "interpretation" to make things look different, because the statement is plain wrong.

He IS competing against Vettel.


Obviously he is competing against Vettel. You think he does not know that? But it's accurate that he is also competing against Newey. "It's not only Vettel"

#3084 Atreiu

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:58

It's must translate into something very motivational in Italy. Who knows?

#3085 F.M.

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:01

People should make an effort to know about stuff before writting about stuff. I have no clue what he said to other press, but he said exactly this to Spanish TV: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, I compete against Newey".

"Ahora no compito contra él, no compito contra Vettel, sino que lo hacemos frente a Adrian Newey [jefe técnico de Red Bull]”

http://deportes.elpa...605_114299.html

Have whatever opinion about it, but let´s get facts straight.

Oh boy Fernando :rotfl: :rotfl:

No no no no, you are just fighting Vettel. The Ferrari technical team is fighting the Red Bull technical team (so amongst others, Newey).

Oh, and both of you are losing atm.

Edited by F.M., 27 October 2012 - 12:02.


#3086 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:02

It's must translate into something very motivational in Italy. Who knows?

Motivational? He's just being realistic about his current situation.

#3087 Cenotaph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:03

Remember 2006

#3088 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:04

Maybe the problem is interpretation, maybe if people were not so eager to found controversy...
He's just stating the obvious. At the moment the main fight is to catch RB (Newey) and if things get more leveled he will be able to fight Vettel. Where's the dismiss?

Yea, some people just like to take any opportunity they find to bash.

Anybody with an ounce of reasonableness will see the sense in what he said.

#3089 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:06

Obviously he is competing against Vettel. You think he does not know that? But it's accurate that he is also competing against Newey. "It's not only Vettel"


JesusChrist, just read the damn quote!!

Have whatever opinion about it, I think he dismissed Vettel, and have no problem in disagreeing, but read what was ACTUALLY said.

#3090 Cenotaph

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:08

He could have simply said that the car isn't fast enough like he said hundreds of times in the last few years, no? There is no implication in mentioning Newey rather than Vettel as the one to beat? let's not be naive here.

Edited by Cenotaph, 27 October 2012 - 12:10.


#3091 jeze

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:11

Yeah Red Bull are cheats and F1 is a corrupt sport. Unlike with Benetton in 1994 they didn't clamp down on the flexi wings and monster diffusers back in 2010 in spite of them being against the rules so Alonso and Ferrari are fighting a team that goes way over the boundaries of the regulations. Todt becoming FIA president was the worst thing that could happen, because he's bound to want Ferrari to fail to make himself look like the god of team bosses (it's called egoism). Todt is a huge egomaniac and between 1993-2007 Ferrari were benefitting from that. That's why Red Bull gets away with flexi wings and everything, because Todt has a problem with Dennis, Alonso and Di Montezemolo and would prefer no success for either of them.

See how the DDRS was only allowed to be on this season because his friends Brawn and Schumacher benefitted from them? Remember how RBR weren't thrown out of the German Grand Prix in spite of an illegal mapping being discovered AFTER qualifying?

(Call me a conspiracy theorist but I've had it with the bowing down to Newey). :down:

Where Ferrari failed was in not making sure Todt stayed within the company, preferrably Brawn too. LdM didn't reward loyalty enough and that bites Fernando in the donkey now as RBR/Merc have their own set of rules. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Vatanen was a Ferrari puppet back in 2009 and that's why Todt is acting like he does. So I wouldn't think Ferrari are guardian angels either. They will probably be lobbying for an opponent to Todt in the next election too.

Edited by jeze, 27 October 2012 - 12:20.


#3092 Ravenak

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:20

There's nothing to suggest thats what he means. Sounds more like you're putting your own thoughts into it.


Read my message again with your finger on the screen: "I THINK"

#3093 Sapphiresteel

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:33

Predictable mind games from Alonso. :wave: It seems he is self-destructing under pressure like in 2007 and 2010.

#3094 Hanzo

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:37

Alonso fans are coming back to reality :blush: :stoned:




Nah, trust me, most of "Alonso fans" are not baby crying like the poster you quoted and will never regret to be out of Mclaren. It will be funny to follow Lewis these next seasons though.



About the interviews, I think Alonso's words were quite fair. And he did not mention anything about flexi wings, engine maps, suspensions, etc... so I don`t understand some Red Bull fans views, he was paying Adrian a compliment, if anything ;)


#3095 Atreiu

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:41

Motivational? He's just being realistic about his current situation.



You don't say?

It's so obvious it goes without saying. What he has to gain from this is something that still isn't clear. Is he trying to motivate the team? Put pressure on Vettel? Explain himself to LdM? Take pressure off himself?

Edited by Atreiu, 27 October 2012 - 12:41.


#3096 boldhakka

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:56

... What he has to gain from this is something that still isn't clear. Is he trying to motivate the team? Put pressure on Vettel? Explain himself to LdM? Take pressure off himself?


I think he's trying to put pressure on the Ferrari leadership to do what it takes to upgrade their technical and engineering expertise and resources. I don't think he brought up Adrian's name by accident. It's a valid approach to use the press this way, especially if he feels that he's really the only one within the team who can drive home this point without political and team-building repercussions (I don't think Domi can say stuff like this, for example).

#3097 motorhead

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:07

If FA feels he alone is fighting against Newey he has some serious issues with his ego.

#3098 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:10

JesusChrist, just read the damn quote!!

Have whatever opinion about it, I think he dismissed Vettel, and have no problem in disagreeing, but read what was ACTUALLY said.


HE SAID DIFFERENT THINGS IN OTHER INTERVIEWs, read the damn Cooper quote. Grow up and don't hang your whole being onto a single half sentence. Jeez

#3099 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:12

He could have simply said that the car isn't fast enough like he said hundreds of times in the last few years, no? There is no implication in mentioning Newey rather than Vettel as the one to beat? let's not be naive here.


Well the context of this whole weekend is the question "could Ferrari get their development back on track and close the gap to RB", so yes, Newey is very much a topic.

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#3100 Hanzo

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 13:17

People should make an effort to know about stuff before writting about stuff. I have no clue what he said to other press, but he said exactly this to Spanish TV: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, I compete against Newey".

"Ahora no compito contra él, no compito contra Vettel, sino que lo hacemos frente a Adrian Newey [jefe técnico de Red Bull]”

http://deportes.elpa...605_114299.html

Have whatever opinion about it, but let´s get facts straight.




The exact translation is: "Now I don´t compete against Vettel, we compete against Newey"
Otherwise people will post silly things about him figting alone, his ego issues, cracking under pressure, etc, etc...;)

Edited by Hanzo, 27 October 2012 - 13:18.