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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#3301 prty

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 19:43

Nice video about Mauro Pozzi on Senna, Schumacher and Alonso (and a bit Hamilton too)

http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

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#3302 F.M.

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:00

Even if Alonso ends up with just two World Championships, he will be remembered for his racing and as one of the greats. Races like India, Valencia and Malaysia this year will go down in history as the most memorable of modern F1 drives. When Vettels name is mentioned it might be with more WDC's along side it but Adrian Neweys name will always be mentioned in the same breath.

Vettel can easily stick around for 10+ years. You have no idea what he will accomplish in those years and thus no idea how and for what he will remembered.

#3303 Ravenak

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:09

This year they've been hanging out together at the drivers' parade in a lot of the races but maybe you mean this one?

Posted Image

It is nice to see them patching up their differences as much as they have. Hamilton has said a few rash comments about Alonso along the way in 2007 (and beyond) in the heat of the moment after various races but I've always reckoned he genuinely really admires him as a driver and as a person. I remember how very impressed he was when Fernando walked into the McLaren garage to personally congratulate him on winning the WDC in 2008, for instance.


That's the one, thanks!

#3304 as65p

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:11

Vettel can easily stick around for 10+ years. You have no idea what he will accomplish in those years and thus no idea how and for what he will remembered.


Yep, and that goes for all of them not retiring at the end of this season.

#3305 Flamini

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 21:31

Saward today: "Absolutely, for me Kimi is one of the drivers of the year. A great job. No fuss. Solid quality performances. Only Fernando Alonso has impressed me more, dragging his Ferrari to stratospheric feats."

#3306 1Devil1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 21:46

Even if Alonso ends up with just two World Championships, he will be remembered for his racing and as one of the greats. Races like India, Valencia and Malaysia this year will go down in history as the most memorable of modern F1 drives. When Vettels name is mentioned it might be with more WDC's along side it but Adrian Neweys name will always be mentioned in the same breath.


Valencia I'll give him that one. Many will remember this race for years, I guess. But the others weren't special at all - he maximized his chance. Like he did all year. The season will remembered as his greatest season and one of the best over the last decade. But his individual drives did not have the same effect like Schumacher (Spain 1996) or Senna (1993) performances when every body knew it was something really special. I don't want downgrade his achievements, Alonso's 2012 will be remembered as perfect example of be there when you have to be, and that's quit an achievement. If I have to pick the best drives of the season it would be Vettel at SPA and Alonso at Valencia.

#3307 joshb

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 21:52

Valencia I'll give him that one. Many will remember this race for years, I guess. But the others weren't special at all - he maximized his chance. Like he did all year. The season will remembered as his greatest season and one of the best over the last decade. But his individual drives did not have the same effect like Schumacher (Spain 1996) or Senna (1993) performances when every body knew it was something really special. I don't want downgrade his achievements, Alonso's 2012 will be remembered as perfect example of be there when you have to be, and that's quit an achievement. If I have to pick the best drives of the season it would be Vettel at SPA and Alonso at Valencia.


Malaysia was good, he did all he could to qualify 9th, got a good start and just kept gaining places, by some passes, good strategy and others' slow stops/poor strategy and suddenly when they all changed to inters he was in front. Then he didn't buckle under the pressure of a fast closing Perez. And Massa was almost 1 lap down by the flag in P15 i think.

#3308 George Costanza

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 22:42

Saward today: "Absolutely, for me Kimi is one of the drivers of the year. A great job. No fuss. Solid quality performances. Only Fernando Alonso has impressed me more, dragging his Ferrari to stratospheric feats."



Like Michael Schumacher did in 1997-1998...

I hope Ferrari gives him a car next season that is on pace with Red Bull.

#3309 Goron3

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 22:49

Saward today: "Absolutely, for me Kimi is one of the drivers of the year. A great job. No fuss. Solid quality performances. Only Fernando Alonso has impressed me more, dragging his Ferrari to stratospheric feats."


Great quote.

Yesterday Will Buxton tweeted something along the lines of 'Do you remember when Damon Hill almost won Hungary GP in the arrows? Alonso has been like that all season, mega over-achievement'.

Amazing to see some of the reactions his performances have been getting :)

#3310 George Costanza

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 22:57

Great quote.

Yesterday Will Buxton tweeted something along the lines of 'Do you remember when Damon Hill almost won Hungary GP in the arrows? Alonso has been like that all season, mega over-achievement'.

Amazing to see some of the reactions his performances have been getting :)



Arrows of 97 to F2012 really is an odd comparsion.

Edited by George Costanza, 29 October 2012 - 22:58.


#3311 Goron3

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 23:31

Arrows of 97 to F2012 really is an odd comparsion.


He's referring to the performance of the driver, not necessarily the car. I understand your point though.

#3312 redbarron

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:18

Vettel can easily stick around for 10+ years. You have no idea what he will accomplish in those years and thus no idea how and for what he will remembered.


I was just talking from the current perspective. I do rate Vettel, and think some are down playing his talents. He could win the next 10 world championships with all I know and be the greatest driver of all time. I think as long as he drives and wins with Adrian Newey cars with such dominance he will always have that stigma follow him.

#3313 inca_roads

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 01:42

If I have to pick the best drives of the season it would be Vettel at SPA and Alonso at Valencia.


Hamilton in Canada too.

#3314 Jon83

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:34

Loved Andrea Stella's radio message to Alonso on Sunday. Seemed to start in Italian and then 'plank hitting the ground, sparking like hell'

:)

Edited by Jon83, 31 October 2012 - 12:34.


#3315 Konsta

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:47

I was just talking from the current perspective. I do rate Vettel, and think some are down playing his talents. He could win the next 10 world championships with all I know and be the greatest driver of all time. I think as long as he drives and wins with Adrian Newey cars with such dominance he will always have that stigma follow him.

Are you willing to also claim that MSc is not an all-time great because he had Brawn/Byrne behind him?

No matter how good the car is (and honestly none of the top-ones are miles apart) a win and especially a dominant win requires perfect execution and that is what Seb has excelled in.

#3316 kosmos

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 13:00

Are you willing to also claim that MSc is not an all-time great because he had Brawn/Byrne behind him?

No matter how good the car is (and honestly none of the top-ones are miles apart) a win and especially a dominant win requires perfect execution and that is what Seb has excelled in.



Perfect execution it's easy when you have a dominant car or a great car that run on "rails". Not talking about Vettel, just about the perfect execution part.

#3317 Creepy

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 22:47

This year they've been hanging out together at the drivers' parade in a lot of the races but maybe you mean this one?

Posted Image

It is nice to see them patching up their differences as much as they have. Hamilton has said a few rash comments about Alonso along the way in 2007 (and beyond) in the heat of the moment after various races but I've always reckoned he genuinely really admires him as a driver and as a person. I remember how very impressed he was when Fernando walked into the McLaren garage to personally congratulate him on winning the WDC in 2008, for instance.


Why fans can't be like the drivers they support? And I include also the other drivers and their fans.

Sorry for the OT. Nice shot.

#3318 Skinnyguy

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 23:56

Perfect execution it's easy when you have a dominant car or a great car that run on "rails".


Cars only look "on rails" when you brake at the right spot, keep the ideal line, and don´t go further than the maximum brake pressure, throttle pressure, and wheel lock that specific car can cope with at every moment. Nowadays every single top and even midfield car looks "on rails" in every single well driven hotlap. Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren, just the RB has a different grip limit.

#3319 Hanzo

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 00:13

Cars only look "on rails" when you brake at the right spot, keep the ideal line, and don´t go further than the maximum brake pressure, throttle pressure, and wheel lock that specific car can cope with at every moment. Nowadays every single top and even midfield car looks "on rails" in every single well driven hotlap. Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren, just the RB has a different grip limit.




Post of the year. Unbelievable.


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#3320 HPT

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:44

Cars only look "on rails" when you brake at the right spot, keep the ideal line, and don´t go further than the maximum brake pressure, throttle pressure, and wheel lock that specific car can cope with at every moment. Nowadays every single top and even midfield car looks "on rails" in every single well driven hotlap. Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren, just the RB has a different grip limit.


That's not true at all. If the car does what you want it to do it will certainly be easier - and also more enjoyable - to drive. Imagine approaching the corner and you turn in but the car understeers instead of turning into the apex, and when you put the power down at the exit all you get is wheel spin due to lack of traction, so you lift and feather the throttle and wait while the guy in the Red Bull is already a few cars ahead of you.

I've driven karts and Formula BMW cars. There is a huge difference between a good setup and a bad one, let alone different cars with different characteristics. A neutral car is definitely easier to drive than an understeering or oversteering one because it gives you more room to play and more margin for error. Saying all cars are as easy to drive as one another is utter nonsense.

#3321 bmardini

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:57

Cars only look "on rails" when you brake at the right spot, keep the ideal line, and don´t go further than the maximum brake pressure, throttle pressure, and wheel lock that specific car can cope with at every moment. Nowadays every single top and even midfield car looks "on rails" in every single well driven hotlap. Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren, just the RB has a different grip limit.


Wow. Just wow. You've obviously gotten F1 figured out, and race driving as well.

Oh, and just FYI, you're TOTALLY wrong, but don't let that stop you from spewing nonsense.

:down:

#3322 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:55

Cars only look "on rails" when you brake at the right spot, keep the ideal line, and don´t go further than the maximum brake pressure, throttle pressure, and wheel lock that specific car can cope with at every moment. Nowadays every single top and even midfield car looks "on rails" in every single well driven hotlap. Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren, just the RB has a different grip limit.


Yeah right. I'll keep this post to refer to in case I ever am inclined to take you seriously in the future.

#3323 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 11:58

That's not true at all. If the car does what you want it to do it will certainly be easier - and also more enjoyable - to drive. Imagine approaching the corner and you turn in but the car understeers instead of turning into the apex, and when you put the power down at the exit all you get is wheel spin due to lack of traction, so you lift and feather the throttle and wait while the guy in the Red Bull is already a few cars ahead of you.

I've driven karts and Formula BMW cars. There is a huge difference between a good setup and a bad one, let alone different cars with different characteristics. A neutral car is definitely easier to drive than an understeering or oversteering one because it gives you more room to play and more margin for error. Saying all cars are as easy to drive as one another is utter nonsense.


But saying a car is easy to drive by just watching some onboard footage is also not very scientific, is it?


#3324 kosmos

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:01

But saying a car is easy to drive by just watching some onboard footage is also not very scientific, is it?


Yeah, because fans have the chance to drive the cars to have a 100% acurate view.

#3325 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:08

Yeah, because fans have the chance to drive the cars to have a 100% acurate view.


So?

#3326 prty

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:59

But saying a car is easy to drive by just watching some onboard footage is also not very scientific, is it?


Alguersuari for example said that when he drove the 2011 car in the simulator he thought it was a joke.

#3327 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:10

Alguersuari for example said that when he drove the 2011 car in the simulator he thought it was a joke.


Does that change the fact, that someone juged the driveability of the car by watching onboard-footage?


btw. When Ricciardo tested the RedBull, he said, it felt pretty much the same as the Torro Rosso, but it was just faster.

Edited by LiJu914, 01 November 2012 - 13:11.


#3328 prty

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:32

Does that change the fact, that someone juged the driveability of the car by watching onboard-footage?


btw. When Ricciardo tested the RedBull, he said, it felt pretty much the same as the Torro Rosso, but it was just faster.


The Red Bull has tremendous rear stability, don't pretend to say that it's just as hard as other cars which have less... Vettel was nowhere and complaining full time of the handling when the rear wasn't as good, earlier this year. No rails then :)


#3329 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:39

The Red Bull has tremendous rear stability, don't pretend to say that it's just as hard as other cars which have less... Vettel was nowhere and complaining full time of the handling when the rear wasn't as good, earlier this year. No rails then :)


I don´t pretend anything. So stop putting words in my mouth, just because you think it might lower the achievements of your darling in any way.

#3330 HPT

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:42

But saying a car is easy to drive by just watching some onboard footage is also not very scientific, is it?


Where have I said anything about a car being easy or hard to drive by watching onboard footage?

#3331 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:50

Does that change the fact, that someone juged the driveability of the car by watching onboard-footage?


btw. When Ricciardo tested the RedBull, he said, it felt pretty much the same as the Torro Rosso, but it was just faster.


Commentators do it all the time. It's not hard to tell from steering input or a lack thereof that one car is a bit easier to drive than another. Take the F2012 versus the RB8. You see both Ferrari drivers fighting the steering wheel all the time. Just by watching the inboard footage you can see when the driver is fighting under steer or oversteer. On the RB8 you can see there is much less steering input that goes into a lap compared to the F2012. The inputs are smooth & precise, not the sawing motion associated with the F2012. Obviously the Rzb8 experiences understeer & oversteer as well but I don't think it's a stretch to say one is easier to drive than the other.

Leading a race, driving to deltas, etc is work in and of itself. No matter how easy Seb makes it look, it's still hard. But that doesn't mean we can't formulate an educated opinion on the driveability of a car versus another.

#3332 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:51

Where have I said anything about a car being easy or hard to drive by watching onboard footage?


I didn´t imply, that you did. It was just pretty obvious, that nobody seemed to care about/disagree with the "look how the red bull is on rails"-post, whereas a user got much heat in here, when he tried to relativise that (even tough in a questionable way). I just took your post as a starting point to add, that both posts didn´t really contain much methodological credibility.

#3333 JeePee

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 13:54

That's not true at all. If the car does what you want it to do it will certainly be easier - and also more enjoyable - to drive. Imagine approaching the corner and you turn in but the car understeers instead of turning into the apex, and when you put the power down at the exit all you get is wheel spin due to lack of traction, so you lift and feather the throttle and wait while the guy in the Red Bull is already a few cars ahead of you.

Skinnyguy IS right. You just didn't read well enough. He explained when a car looks on rails. If you have understeer, you have to much steering angle. If you've got wheelspin, you apply to much trottle pressure. Read his post again. A car being slower, doesn't mean it has worse balance/harder to drive. Lotus for example has great drivability (that's what the drivers say), maybe easier to drive than a Mclaren or Red Bull, but not faster.


#3334 STIGG

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:00

Sorry to intrude. I mistook this for the Fernando Alonso thread, not the one discussing 2012 car handling. I'll get my coat. :rolleyes:

#3335 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:02

Commentators do it all the time. It's not hard to tell from steering input or a lack thereof that one car is a bit easier to drive than another. Take the F2012 versus the RB8. You see both Ferrari drivers fighting the steering wheel all the time. Just by watching the inboard footage you can see when the driver is fighting under steer or oversteer. On the RB8 you can see there is much less steering input that goes into a lap compared to the F2012. The inputs are smooth & precise, not the sawing motion associated with the F2012. Obviously the Rzb8 experiences understeer & oversteer as well but I don't think it's a stretch to say one is easier to drive than the other.

Leading a race, driving to deltas, etc is work in and of itself. No matter how easy Seb makes it look, it's still hard. But that doesn't mean we can't formulate an educated opinion on the driveability of a car versus another.


I don´t agree with that at all. The best example, that comes sponateously to my mind, is onboard-footage from MSC in the mid-90s Benettons and how relatively smooth it all looked.
All of his teammates and also Berger, who drove the B195 during winter testing, confirmed that the cars were extremely tail-happy, very unpredictable and very hard to drive (Berger crashed several times with the car due to snap-oversteer...).

The exact opposite of that might be e.g. some footage of Vettel´s pole laps form last year. In many of his laps you can see him make jerky movements at the wheel, giving the impression that he´s manhandling a pretty tricky car. But i think we all would´agree that the RB7 was still a total rocketship and had plenty of rear downforce.

Edited by LiJu914, 01 November 2012 - 14:05.


#3336 HPT

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:03

I didn´t imply, that you did. It was just pretty obvious, that nobody seemed to care about/disagree with the "look how the red bull is on rails"-post, whereas a user got much heat in here, when he tried to relativise that (even tough in a questionable way). I just took your post as a starting point to add, that both posts didn´t really contain much methodological credibility.


I haven't been following the posts about Red Bull on rails so I don't know how much heat he's getting, but I commented on his post because he was wrong.

By the way, watching onboard of cars can give you an idea if the car is easy to drive or not. It's not always the case but in general when a driver isn't making lots of corrections, catching oversteer, etc. it shows the car is easier to drive than one that requires the driver doing all those things. But as I've said, there are always exceptions of course.

#3337 HPT

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:06

Skinnyguy IS right. You just didn't read well enough. He explained when a car looks on rails. If you have understeer, you have to much steering angle. If you've got wheelspin, you apply to much trottle pressure. Read his post again. A car being slower, doesn't mean it has worse balance/harder to drive. Lotus for example has great drivability (that's what the drivers say), maybe easier to drive than a Mclaren or Red Bull, but not faster.


"Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren"

I read well enough. He claims all cars are as easy or difficult to drive. That is just wrong. For example, surely an understeering car is more difficult to drive than a neutral one, don't you think?


Edited by HPT, 01 November 2012 - 14:07.


#3338 prty

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:12

I don´t pretend anything. So stop putting words in my mouth, just because you think it might lower the achievements of your darling in any way.


No, not really. Marc Gené and PDLR are always on about how the RBR looks to be on rails, whereas other cars have to make more corrections, making them harder to drive, it's deluded to say or pretend otherwise.

#3339 LiJu914

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:15

No, not really. Marc Gené and PDLR are always on about how the RBR looks to be on rails, whereas other cars have to make more corrections, making them harder to drive, it's deluded to say or pretend otherwise.


See above.

Ps. I think we should stop right here as this discussion has become completely off topic.

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#3340 crespo

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:18

Well, I wonder how Alonso is doing these days.

#3341 kosmos

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 14:51

Well, I wonder how Alonso is doing these days.



He is fine and positive like always :)

http://www.ferrari.c...-gp-alonso.aspx

#3342 JeePee

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 18:51

"Extrecting the maximum from any current top car is just as hard/easy as with the direct competition if they´re well balanced, it´s just that some of them happen to be faster. Driving a perfect lap in a RB isn´t easier or harder than doing it in a McLaren"

I read well enough. He claims all cars are as easy or difficult to drive. That is just wrong. For example, surely an understeering car is more difficult to drive than a neutral one, don't you think?

He claims they are all as easy or difficult to drive, IF THEY'RE WELL BALANCED. Surely an understeering car isn't, don't you think?


#3343 Skinnyguy

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 19:07

No, not really. Marc Gené and PDLR are always on about how the RBR looks to be on rails, whereas other cars have to make more corrections, making them harder to drive, it's deluded to say or pretend otherwise.


That is exactly why I made that comment, it´s irritating to listen. It´s just Gene, and just when he sees a pole lap from a RB onboard. Fanservice. Modern cars all look on rails on a dry weather qualifying lap where the driver did a normal job.

Balance=speed is wrong.

RB is really fast, but every single car -maybe except the new teams- in the grid has nearly perfect balance nowadays. Just their grip limit is different. It isn´t harder to drive a TR at it´s maximum pace than to drive a RB at its maximum pace. It just happens that RB is faster, and has its limits further.

#3344 prty

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 19:41

That is exactly why I made that comment, it´s irritating to listen. It´s just Gene, and just when he sees a pole lap from a RB onboard. Fanservice. Modern cars all look on rails on a dry weather qualifying lap where the driver did a normal job.

Balance=speed is wrong.

RB is really fast, but every single car -maybe except the new teams- in the grid has nearly perfect balance nowadays. Just their grip limit is different. It isn´t harder to drive a TR at it´s maximum pace than to drive a RB at its maximum pace. It just happens that RB is faster, and has its limits further.


Even if the balance mid corner is the same, corner entry is easier if the rear is more stable, which is a trait of the RBR with its enormous rear downforce levels, and Alguersuari, Gené... refer to it all the time. No other car can get that balance in that part of the corner.

#3345 e34

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 19:51

That is exactly why I made that comment, it´s irritating to listen. It´s just Gene, and just when he sees a pole lap from a RB onboard. Fanservice. Modern cars all look on rails on a dry weather qualifying lap where the driver did a normal job.

Balance=speed is wrong.

RB is really fast, but every single car -maybe except the new teams- in the grid has nearly perfect balance nowadays. Just their grip limit is different. It isn´t harder to drive a TR at it´s maximum pace than to drive a RB at its maximum pace. It just happens that RB is faster, and has its limits further.


Ah, I see, now I think I understand what you meant. If we forget about timing the lap, every car-driver combo is able to make a perfectly balanced lap.

Pity that the essence of F1 is speed, as opposed to perfect balanced riding. We were talking about pilots, you were talking about taxi drivers.

#3346 Nitropower

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:00

That's bull. You see some drivers correcting the whole time while Vettel does keep it smooth and has no loss of control at all. Eiher you are blind or a hater to deny such an obvious fact. A perfect lap in an HRT is not smooth, it's a battle with understeer, oversteer, brakes, and the driving is everything except smooth.

Edited by Nitropower, 02 November 2012 - 02:01.


#3347 HPT

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 03:26

He claims they are all as easy or difficult to drive, IF THEY'RE WELL BALANCED. Surely an understeering car isn't, don't you think?


So you're saying the HRTs, the Marrusias and even Jenson Button deliberately setup their cars so that they are not well balanced? Or do you not think that there are far greater limitations to a "bad" car in that most of the lap around any given circuit is made up of compromises? The Red Bull, on the other hand, is good in all types of corners whether they are slow, medium or high speed.

#3348 Kelateboy

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 04:41

He is fine and positive like always :)

http://www.ferrari.c...-gp-alonso.aspx

Alonso is very positive nowadays despite all the shortcomings with his car. If he intends to exert pressure on Sebastian, he has to qualify very close to him.

Abu Dhabi is still a crappy circuit and qualifying will be more important than ever.

#3349 decoder

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:08

That is exactly why I made that comment, it´s irritating to listen. It´s just Gene, and just when he sees a pole lap from a RB onboard. Fanservice. Modern cars all look on rails on a dry weather qualifying lap where the driver did a normal job.

Balance=speed is wrong.

RB is really fast, but every single car -maybe except the new teams- in the grid has nearly perfect balance nowadays. Just their grip limit is different. It isn´t harder to drive a TR at it´s maximum pace than to drive a RB at its maximum pace. It just happens that RB is faster, and has its limits further.


Of course its irritating to listen how perfect the redbull handles if you are a fan of the team or its drivers, but it's all true and your attempt to equate the handling of the redbull to every car on the grid is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. If you had been paying attention earlier in the season especially, you would have seen the Ferrari drivers literally rally driving, while the redbull drivers look like they are driving a limousine, so the difference between a great car and rubbish car, and very obvious visually and balance is one of the key components of speed. Again you can see this reflected in Redbull pole laps with the cars perfectly balanced.

#3350 ViMaMo

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:03

Driving style and pace of driver.
Overall downforce, balance and pace of the car.
Circuit characteristics. Green and smooth track would be a problem for most.

Its the relative amounts I think. The more ragged, then its any of first two issues in the prominence. With Alonso, they have a top driver who is proven. They need to up their game and provide a better car to compete with the RBR. Otherwise go for Vettel or Hamilton, which I think is not going to change anything. So stick with Alonso and build a better car.