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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#3501 kosmos

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:10

While I do rate Alonso highly, let's not exaggerate too much.

He has been in contention in two of the last five years, not "year in, year out."



Or you can say he has been in contention in 3 of the last 6 years, pretty much year in, year out ;)


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#3502 SkorbiF1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 10:29

Last ten years in contention for WDC
Alonso 5x
Vettel 4x
Kimi 4x
Hamilton 3x
Schumi 3x
Button 1x
Massa 1x
JPM 1x
Barrichello 1x

Pretty much sums the current generation top drivers. :)
(just a quick glance on stats, so the table might not be 100%)

#3503 Cesc

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:01

This season has caused me to evaluate the order in which i'd place Schumacher and Alonso in my personal drivers table. Even if Alonso finishes the year without the title.. for me he has had his best ever season. And when you consider he has been in F1 since 2001.. that's quite something. He has dragged his car into a title winning position with consistant 110% performances. History may look back and count his titles.. but with this guy, titles don't even tell half of the story.


I think this is particularly true for Alonso, mainly because, despite he has had very good cars in his careers, he has never had a clarly dominant car in a Red Bull fashion last years.

#3504 1Devil1

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:31

This season has caused me to evaluate the order in which i'd place Schumacher and Alonso in my personal drivers table. Even if Alonso finishes the year without the title.. for me he has had his best ever season. And when you consider he has been in F1 since 2001.. that's quite something. He has dragged his car into a title winning position with consistant 110% performances. History may look back and count his titles.. but with this guy, titles don't even tell half of the story.


I agree this season will push Alonso in the greatest list right to the top spots. He deserves this in every way you look at it :up:. But I can't agree on that this season must be a key point in which order you place Schumacher and Alonso. Schumacher had season like that from 1996 to 2000. It's no coincidence people compare Alonso right now with the Schumacher of the 90's. And even then people said Schumacher is one of the best ever and titles are not everything(he had only two titles). I admire Alonso performances but it's a long route down to be placed above Michael.

Edited by 1Devil1, 15 November 2012 - 11:33.


#3505 mnmracer

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 11:40

I love this article, I could not agree more
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104210

Kind of rich in the thread of the driver who is modern-day F1's master in "getting upset, angry, screaming and flicking the middle finger. ", don't you think ;-)

#3506 Fontainebleau

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:10

Kind of rich in the thread of the driver who is modern-day F1's master in "getting upset, angry, screaming and flicking the middle finger. ", don't you think ;-)

Excuse me, but which basis do you have to state that Alonso is "F1's master in getting upset, angry, screaming and flicking the middle finger."? For each instance of Alonso doing so you show us, I am sure we can find one for Vettel, who is the one the article talks about; or even for Raikkonen, who is meant to be the epithomy of coolness. All drivers do so, and Alonso is by far not the worst.

Plus, I am sure that most of us are far worse in our daily driving than any of these guys under the pressure of a race! :p

Edited by Fontainebleau, 15 November 2012 - 12:11.


#3507 sailor

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:15

Kind of rich in the thread of the driver who is modern-day F1's master in "getting upset, angry, screaming and flicking the middle finger. ", don't you think ;-)


Thats called irony :)

#3508 mnmracer

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 12:55

Excuse me, but which basis do you have to state that Alonso is "F1's master in getting upset, angry, screaming and flicking the middle finger."? For each instance of Alonso doing so you show us, I am sure we can find one for Vettel, who is the one the article talks about; or even for Raikkonen, who is meant to be the epithomy of coolness. All drivers do so, and Alonso is by far not the worst.

Plus, I am sure that most of us are far worse in our daily driving than any of these guys under the pressure of a race! :p



jstrains (and others) say they couldn't agree more.
Thus he agrees that (in comparison) Alonso is calm, cool and rational, and doesn't (meaning of the word while) get upset, angry, screams or flicks finger.

What makes Alonso the master is that I can not remember any other driver being given a grid-penalty for brake-testing a test driver in free practice. I can not remember any other driver screaming over the radio that it's rediculous that his team mate doesn't park his car. I can not remember any other driver wailing (sp?) that his team wants him to lose the championship. I can't remember any other driver raising hell as much and black-mailing his team because he is not given nr 1 status.

That's before we even get to the actual on-track gestures and radio-complaining Villeneuve blames Vettel and Vettel alone for. Flicking fingers, being grumpy, being upset etc. is perfectly normal for any driver, and we are no better, but Alonso's other antics top (almost) everything I have ever seen of other drivers (since early 90's).

#3509 fabr68

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 13:07

jstrains (and others) say they couldn't agree more.
Thus he agrees that (in comparison) Alonso is calm, cool and rational, and doesn't (meaning of the word while) get upset, angry, screams or flicks finger.

What makes Alonso the master is that I can not remember any other driver being given a grid-penalty for brake-testing a test driver in free practice. I can not remember any other driver screaming over the radio that it's rediculous that his team mate doesn't park his car. I can not remember any other driver wailing (sp?) that his team wants him to lose the championship. I can't remember any other driver raising hell as much and black-mailing his team because he is not given nr 1 status.

That's before we even get to the actual on-track gestures and radio-complaining Villeneuve blames Vettel and Vettel alone for. Flicking fingers, being grumpy, being upset etc. is perfectly normal for any driver, and we are no better, but Alonso's other antics top (almost) everything I have ever seen of other drivers (since early 90's).


Name the times where Alonso's temper getting the better of him ended up ruining his race...

On the other hand there are many of the other top drivers where after something going wrong they ended up making a huge handful of mistakes that cost them lots of points and even the whole race.

Has Alonso ever crashed with his teammates due to a childish outburst?

Edited by fabr68, 15 November 2012 - 13:07.


#3510 LiJu914

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 13:16

Name the times where Alonso's temper getting the better of him ended up ruining his race...

On the other hand there are many of the other top drivers where after something going wrong they ended up making a huge handful of mistakes that cost them lots of points and even the whole race.

Has Alonso ever crashed with his teammates due to a childish outburst?


You´re mixing up cause and effect.

E.g We can witness Vettel´s "childish" behaviour AFTER something went wrong, not before. The same is true for Alonso (e.g. gestures to Petrov, showed fist(?) to the McLaren-box after being held up by LH in Indy 07 etc.) and of course also many other drivers.


#3511 mnmracer

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 13:23

Name the times where Alonso's temper getting the better of him ended up ruining his race...

On the other hand there are many of the other top drivers where after something going wrong they ended up making a huge handful of mistakes that cost them lots of points and even the whole race.

Has Alonso ever crashed with his teammates due to a childish outburst?


First, what LiJu914 said.
Second, the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix, third, the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix.
Not to mention what he could have achieved if he had accepted an equal team mate and stayed at McLaren.

Schumacher has gotten penalties for cheating. Alonso has gotten penalties for being a hot head.

Edited by mnmracer, 15 November 2012 - 13:24.


#3512 Ravenak

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 13:29

Oh my god, this blah blah blaaaaah.

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#3513 fabr68

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 14:13

First, what LiJu914 said.
Second, the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix, third, the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix.
Not to mention what he could have achieved if he had accepted an equal team mate and stayed at McLaren.

Schumacher has gotten penalties for cheating. Alonso has gotten penalties for being a hot head.


Nice try.

The 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix practice was a big BS penalty. It did not cost Alonso anything because he was leading the race when the Renault crew failed to tighten the wheel nut.

The 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix did not cost Alonso anything. He would have lost pole position regardless of what he did.

Nice to see that Alonso has matured from his behavior from 6 years ago. This is exactly what Villeneuve's point was.

#3514 mnmracer

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 14:29

Nice try.

The 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix practice was a big BS penalty. It did not cost Alonso anything because he was leading the race when the Renault crew failed to tighten the wheel nut.

The 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix did not cost Alonso anything. He would have lost pole position regardless of what he did.

Nice to see that Alonso has matured from his behavior from 6 years ago. This is exactly what Villeneuve's point was.


Nice try in ignoring LiJu914's very valid point.

And claiming starting 15th is not something that affects someone's race because circumstances happened to bring him back in the lead, is bullocks.
As for 2007, you might want to check your facts. If you believe from the front row (had he lost pole to Lewis fairly) he could not have finished higher than 4th in a race winning car, you are waaaaay out of touch with reality.

#3515 kosmos

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:23

Another helmet for the collection.

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I wonder if it is the helmet GRO used to crash into Hamilton and ruined Fernando's race in Spa :rolleyes:

#3516 olliek88

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:27

Alonso's helmet collection thing kinda reminds me of LT. Aldo Raine.

#3517 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:40

First, what LiJu914 said.
Second, the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix, third, the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix.
Not to mention what he could have achieved if he had accepted an equal team mate and stayed at McLaren.

Schumacher has gotten penalties for cheating. Alonso has gotten penalties for being a hot head.

True. Alonso has got immunity after cheating (Spygate 2007), his involvement has been cleverly covered up (Crashgate 2008), his requests to break the rules have been dully ignored (Germany 2010), and some of his most reckeless rules transgressions have been ignored (accelerating under double yellow in Brazil 2003).

So yeah, he has not been penalized for cheating, but not because he has not cheated plenty (heck, even more than most), it is more a thing of the FIA/FOM having to either protect their investment, or choosing to look into the opposite direction "for the greater good of the sport".

#3518 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:43

Name the times where Alonso's temper getting the better of him ended up ruining his race...

Canada 2007? Hungary 2007? (imagine a hot P2 on the grid rather than the deserved (but weak) penalty he got: Schumacher impeded his direct championship rival 1 year ago and was sent to the back of the grid; Alonso impeded his direct championship rival and got 5 places. That would have been enough for him to win that title...)

I am trying to think a race that Vettel lost because losing his temper; not one on which he lost his temper after the mistake was done... I would expect that with someone so young, it should not be difficult...

Edit: I meant 2007 for Hungary, and impeding Hamilton in the pits (I thought it was pretty obvious from the text, but better safe than sorry...)

Edited by Mr.Wayne, 17 November 2012 - 20:35.


#3519 whitevisor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:38

Hoping for Alonso to emerge Championship leader this weekend. :up:

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#3520 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:43

Canada 2007? Hungary 2006? (imagine a hot P2 on the grid rather than the deserved (but weak) penalty he got: Schumacher impeded his direct championship rival 1 year ago and was sent to the back of the grid; Alonso impeded his direct championship rival and got 5 places. That would have been enough for him to win that title...)

I am trying to think a race that Vettel lost because losing his temper; not one on which he lost his temper after the mistake was done... I would expect that with someone so young, it should not be difficult...

Canada 2007 - if what you are trying to say is that Alonso made a mistake in overtaking because he was adamant he wanted to be ahead of his teammate, I would think that you would assume the same from Vettel in Turkey 2010.
Hungary 2006 - Alonso did not get a 5 places penalty, he got a 2-sec one (one sec for overtaking under yellow flags, another for brake-testing). I fail to see where he " impeded his direct championship rival" as you claim. And by the way, he was leading that race when he had to retire because a wheel nut detached - what would a "hot P2 on the grid" have changed?

#3521 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:47

True. Alonso has got immunity after cheating (Spygate 2007), his involvement has been cleverly covered up (Crashgate 2008), his requests to break the rules have been dully ignored (Germany 2010), and some of his most reckeless rules transgressions have been ignored (accelerating under double yellow in Brazil 2003).

So yeah, he has not been penalized for cheating, but not because he has not cheated plenty (heck, even more than most), it is more a thing of the FIA/FOM having to either protect their investment, or choosing to look into the opposite direction "for the greater good of the sport".

A pity I hadn't read this post of yours before replying to the other one - I would have realised that you are not interested in the facts, and that you happily misrepresent them in order to bash this particular driver.

#3522 Topsu

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:05

Alonso collects other drivers' helmets?

#3523 kosmos

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:15

Alonso collects other drivers' helmets?



Yep, he has the helmet of almost every driver he raced against, I think he it's missing very few.

#3524 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:15

I think I read he intends to put them in a museum/gallery one day?

#3525 Ravenak

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:53

I think I read he intends to put them in a museum/gallery one day?


Yes, his official museum he's trying to open in Asturias, but he has some contractors difficulties atm.

Edited by Ravenak, 17 November 2012 - 14:53.


#3526 pusko

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 15:00

So nice to see Fernando "playing"/smiling.....whatere happens.
:-)

#3527 F.M.

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 18:46

Alonso cracking under the pressure? Q3 will be interesting...

edit: 1 (sort of) mistake free lap out of 6 or so and 9th.

Edited by F.M., 17 November 2012 - 19:06.


#3528 kosmos

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:06

Bad day, not sure what happen :(, with GRO penalty, he will start P8. Do or die tomorrow.

#3529 F.M.

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:07

Bad day, not sure what happen :(, with GRO penalty, he will start P8. Do or die tomorrow.

Grosjean and Maldonado right behind him tomorrow

#3530 Topsu

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:07

I thought Alonso would manage the rough conditions. What was that?

#3531 HPT

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:08

He sucked so bad today. Damnit.

#3532 swerved

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:10

I think Alonso is beginning to look pretty ragged, in contrast its Vettel who looks to be keeping his head together.

#3533 Vesuvius

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:13

Alonso talks to the media but i's Vettel who does the job were it matters...on track!

#3534 F.M.

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:16

I think Alonso is beginning to look pretty ragged, in contrast its Vettel who looks to be keeping his head together.

It seems all of Alonso's mindgames are starting to backfire and he's starting to lose his head instead of his opposition

#3535 keeppari

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:20

Half a second behind Massa and he's supposed to be fighting for the title. Say :wave: to the title, it's just blind luck if he wins it after choking this bad.

#3536 joshb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:22

I remember what happened in Valencia, though then he was 0.2s down in Q2 not 1.7s down in Q3.
I still think he'll find a way of getting into top 4, needs to keep position on lap 1 though from the 'wrong' side of the grid

#3537 showtime

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:43

Alonso cracking under the pressure? Q3 will be interesting...

edit: 1 (sort of) mistake free lap out of 6 or so and 9th.


I know your hate blinds you but please, at least try not to lie. Most of his laps were mistake free but he decided to abort them to heat the tires and get the best time possible at the last lap. If you want to criticise him then you have enough material with that last lap (he has already admitted it wasn't good enough) or not securing a time before.
So many Saturdays walking on the wire... having to reach the limit of the car to be in the third row... it was just a question of time.
Nice to see how many people decided to post after the qualy today and were hidden for the rest of the season, clarify things if someone could have doubts :)


#3538 Watkins74

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:53

That was kind of painful to watch, hopefully he can get up to 4th and at least stay in the hunt at Brazil.

#3539 Longtimefan

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:06

Terrible qually for Alonso.

With Maldonado and Grosjean so close, the title could be Seb's on lap 1. :(


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#3540 Creepy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:13

Alonso talks to the media but i's Vettel who does the job were it matters...on track!


Why don't you take that to the Vettel's thread which will be more relevant than here?

#3541 showtime

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:18

Why don't you take that to the Vettel's thread which will be more relevant than here?


You missed Trolling 101 :lol:

#3542 George Costanza

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:19

Fernando will bounce back; we seen this before. All he has to do is finish top 4th or 5th, given his race pace and craft this season, that is very doable. IF it goes to Brazil, Alonso who absolutely loves the track and has incredible memories of 2005-2006 there, will be ready to go.

I would favor Ferrari and Alonso in Brazil.

Edited by George Costanza, 17 November 2012 - 20:21.


#3543 garoidb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:19

Terrible qually for Alonso.

With Maldonado and Grosjean so close, the title could be Seb's on lap 1. :(


Seb needs to finish the race to clinch the title tomorrow. It looks like a tough race for Fernando, but Lewis could certainly do him a favour by getting ahead at the first corner. I wonder if Seb would be content with second or fight him for the win?

#3544 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:36

Canada 2007 - if what you are trying to say is that Alonso made a mistake in overtaking because he was adamant he wanted to be ahead of his teammate, I would think that you would assume the same from Vettel in Turkey 2010.
Hungary 2006 - Alonso did not get a 5 places penalty, he got a 2-sec one (one sec for overtaking under yellow flags, another for brake-testing). I fail to see where he " impeded his direct championship rival" as you claim. And by the way, he was leading that race when he had to retire because a wheel nut detached - what would a "hot P2 on the grid" have changed?

I meant Hungary 2007.... I thought it was pretty obvious from what I wrote, but fair enough, my mistake ):
Canada 2007: He made the same mistake over and over and over again... Not one overtaking move that went bad, but actually the same move that went bad SEVERAL times in the race.
Of course, all that lead to the icing on the cake: a Super Aguri overtaking what was the best car (by a mile) that day...

#3545 Anonymous

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:47

Alonso certain he will outscore Vettel despite poor qualifying

oh god my sides :rotfl:

#3546 Smile17

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:49

Alonso certain he will outscore Vettel despite poor qualifying

oh god my sides :rotfl:


That made me laugh too, but hé it won't surprise me if it does happen. In general, I think Alonso likes to play with 'extremes' to prove a point or put some pressure on others..

#3547 Gintonious

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:51

If he outscores Vettel....well I wont know what to do!

#3548 Lotusseven

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:52

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#3549 swerved

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:54

It seems all of Alonso's mindgames are starting to backfire and he's starting to lose his head instead of his opposition



Indeed it does, its a dangerous game to play, even if someone is relatively good at it, mother Karma is second only to mother nature :lol:


I think the best way to "play" mind games, is to sit back,chill out, and watch others doing it, whilst only being a viewer, never a doer.

#3550 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:57

Alonso certain he will outscore Vettel despite poor qualifying

oh god my sides :rotfl:


I hope it's the Autosport editors you are laughing at. Because in the actual quotes, Alonso says much about RBR and Vet being better, and that they will have deserved it if they win. And the only quotes having anything to do with the Autosport headline is "As always the race is tomorrow. I still think that tomorrow we are going to reduce the gap to Sebastian, which is what counts" and right at the end, "As I said, for whatever reason, I have the strange feeling that tomorrow we will reduce the gap."

So that's all firmly in the realm of "you never know", and what else can he say.