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Fernando Alonso - Part II


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#3951 figue

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:04

Alonso "blew" it with his sub-standard performance in the last 3rd of the season. Why was Massa faster than Alonso? Did the car change? Pressure got to him? I don't know but to me it's clear that had Alonso not dropped his performance in the last 4-5 races, he would have won the title.

Do you actually read before posting?

Have you even stopped and look back to see Fernando's last 5 races?

:eek:

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#3952 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:14

Can the haters not even give us until tomorrow to get over the disappointment? Have a bit of class guys.

#3953 ferrarijon123

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:18

Absolutely gutted! Today i realised how much more i support Fernando Alonso than i did over previous Ferrari drivers even Michael Schumacher. How this man now has less championships than Vettel is beyond me but oh well, lets hope for an even better 2013 season and hopefully a WDC for Fernando. :clap:

#3954 DaddyCool

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:25

Congrats to Alonso & his fans!

Not a fan of the guy, but credit where it's due. His mental strength is brutal, and considering the opposition this year having the best podium record is impressive.

#3955 Showty

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:31

Alonso "blew" it with his sub-standard performance in the last 3rd of the season. Why was Massa faster than Alonso? Did the car change? Pressure got to him? I don't know but to me it's clear that had Alonso not dropped his performance in the last 4-5 races, he would have won the title.


Fernando carried the whole Ferrari team weight on his shoulders for most part of the season.

When the car was pretty average and Massa was nowhere he achieved great result after great result keeping the title chances alive, something unthinkable if we seriously give a deep thought about it.

He would have won the title with a better car, not even the best car, but a better one, there´s nothing he can be blamed of, he constantly performed in a non human level for most part of the season, u can´t do that for 20 races.

Even with a slight drop of performance after such a great season he managed to put the car where the car deserved to be, can´t rely on miracles for a whole season.

Japan for me was the crucial point, that Kimi spun and the yellow flags when he was on his flying lap, then the yellow flags gone for the cars behind him, then Vettel being given just a reprimend for clearly impeding him and therefore starting the race 3-4 positions behind where he should have being...that weekend was terrible.



#3956 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:33

Do you actually read before posting?

Have you even stopped and look back to see Fernando's last 5 races?

:eek:


Certainly in the last two races his teammate has given him positions on the track. I have no problem with that, as I've been a Ferrari fan for over 30 years. But I didn't think I'd ever have to say that Massa had to give Alonso positions. Not the way Alonso crushed him last year and the first half of this year.

While Alonso has certainly finished on the podium from Korea onwards, you can't deny he has not really been on the pace of the leaders in any of those races. From qualifying to race day, he just did not seem to have the same fire. His qualifying has gone down (4, 5, 6, 7, 7) and his race pace has not threatened whoever was leading the race and fighting for the win. I'm not being critical, just making an observation from available data. His lack of race pace was so noticeable in Austin that my wife (who is not an F-1 fan) kept asking when Alonso was going to get after Vettel and Hamilton.

#3957 LiJu914

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:34

Great season, which won´t be forgotten..title or not.

#3958 DaiMOn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:35

Posted Image Posted Image

#3959 jstrains

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:37

If I were Fernando, I would not fall asleep tonight. Good night folks!

Posted Image

Edited by jstrains, 25 November 2012 - 22:37.


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#3960 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:52

Certainly in the last two races his teammate has given him positions on the track. I have no problem with that, as I've been a Ferrari fan for over 30 years. But I didn't think I'd ever have to say that Massa had to give Alonso positions. Not the way Alonso crushed him last year and the first half of this year.

While Alonso has certainly finished on the podium from Korea onwards, you can't deny he has not really been on the pace of the leaders in any of those races. From qualifying to race day, he just did not seem to have the same fire. His qualifying has gone down (4, 5, 6, 7, 7) and his race pace has not threatened whoever was leading the race and fighting for the win. I'm not being critical, just making an observation from available data. His lack of race pace was so noticeable in Austin that my wife (who is not an F-1 fan) kept asking when Alonso was going to get after Vettel and Hamilton.


I don't see it like that at all. In Korea he Quali'd much better than Felipe. In India he was 5th right behind both RB's & McLarens. Abu Dhabi again over 2 tenths to Felipe. Yes he only Quali'd P7 but the F2012 isn't very good there. Yes in Austin Felipe did better in Q and raced strong but I don't think it was necessarily a dip in Fernando's form, more like Massa finally getting up to speed. To the dismay of many, Felipe isn't a chump. And yes it's possible for Fernando to be beat. Regardless of where his teammate was, both drivers were getting the maximum from the car and that's the real point here. The car wasn't capable of any more. The F2012 wasn't capable of beating the RB8 from Singapore forward.

Belgium killed the chances & Japan buried the coffin IMHO.

#3961 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 22:58

To the dismay of many, Felipe isn't a chump.

I'm not sure that it's to the dismay of many, I instead like to think that the reason people were so hard on Massa is that most know that he isn't a chump and that he can and should have done better. Anyway, the 2012 season has passed. Now I hope Massa can take this form and feeling with the car into next year. :up:

#3962 mastermind

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 23:55

So, who else skipped a heartbeat when they saw this?



#3963 Jejking

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:01

So, who else skipped a heartbeat when they saw this?

Not only A heartbeat but multiple. My brains went into overdrive and saw him going straight left already, had the heart in my mouth. Save of the race.

#3964 Skinnyguy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:01

So, who else skipped a heartbeat when they saw this?


Epic car control. Epic!! These modern F1 cars are really cool. They can save slides with an ammount of mass rotating that no degree of countersteer would save 10 years ago.

#3965 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:02

I'm not sure that it's to the dismay of many, I instead like to think that the reason people were so hard on Massa is that most know that he isn't a chump and that he can and should have done better. Anyway, the 2012 season has passed. Now I hope Massa can take this form and feeling with the car into next year. :up:


I do too mate. I know this s Fer thread but Felipe has shown all the naysayers he isn't what they thought he was. I'm really img hoping he can carry this momentum through the winter & into next season. For himself, for the team & for Fernando. It's past time Ferrari seriously contend for WCC. Obviously if Felipe could've had his most recent form all season long, Ferrari may have won he WCC.

Fernando did a great job this season. Lets hope he can do the same next year but with a car that is much more competitive compared to its rivals than the F2012 was.

#3966 Arry2k

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:12

Not only A heartbeat but multiple. My brains went into overdrive and saw him going straight left already, had the heart in my mouth. Save of the race.

When I saw the car starting to point to the barriers on the left I thought he had lost it for sure.

#3967 Disgrace

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:15

So, who else skipped a heartbeat when they saw this?


Unreal, 180 degrees of opposite lock just as the car is coming back around and still catches it. Lightning reactions.

#3968 fdspd

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:34

In my opinion, Alonso did look a bit "spent" in the last 4 races. It was bound to happen, keeping that level of positive energy despite having a car which made no significant progress since Canada against an almost unstoppable Redbull juggernaut. Knowing that he could do nothing despite giving his absolute best. I think the DNF in Suzuka triggered it.

You could tell by Alonso's almost absurd statement to the press. Stuff like I'm going to win the championship, even after a poor quali performance in US/Abu Dhabi. It almost sounded like he was saying that stuff to convince himself. That last final bit of belief is very important to a driver in finding that final two-tenths. Just look at Massa, who suddenly looked like he had come alive.

Hopefully, he'll have his batteries recharged for next year and we'll see a stronger Alonso and Massa in a stronger Ferrari.

#3969 dreamerBiH

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:34

I didn't watch the race. Did he have any chance against Button?

#3970 Arry2k

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:36

I didn't watch the race. Did he have any chance against Button?

No.

#3971 Lights

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:39

In my opinion, Alonso did look a bit "spent" in the last 4 races. It was bound to happen, keeping that level of positive energy despite having a car which made no significant progress since Canada against an almost unstoppable Redbull juggernaut. Knowing that he could do nothing despite giving his absolute best. I think the DNF in Suzuka triggered it.

You could tell by Alonso's almost absurd statement to the press. Stuff like I'm going to win the championship, even after a poor quali performance in US/Abu Dhabi. It almost sounded like he was saying that stuff to convince himself. That last final bit of belief is very important to a driver in finding that final two-tenths. Just look at Massa, who suddenly looked like he had come alive.

Hopefully, he'll have his batteries recharged for next year and we'll see a stronger Alonso and Massa in a stronger Ferrari.

Completely agree. Still the driver of the season for me overall, but I think it also got to him that Ferrari didn't manage to provide him with a proper front running car at many races in the 2nd half of the season. Combined with Massa finding the pedal once again, it made Alonso look a bit simple at times. Kept scoring podiums like crazy though but a win somewhere was needed and he couldn't honestly challenge for it since Hockenheim.

#3972 mnmracer

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 00:40

I didn't watch the race. Did he have any chance against Button?

Button was about half a second faster until the last 5 laps or so, when he had a 22 second lead and took it easy (lost 2 seconds per lap).
Button could have spun and still win.

#3973 ViMaMo

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:36

Little devastated that FA couldn't win the title. And to see FA feeling the moment sink in just after the race. Personally dont like Vettel's antics but I dont see why he shouldnt deserve the title. What I have always hoped for is to have a competitive car, which Ferrari couldnt muster up this season. Hope the team can do much better next season. As a driver Nando wasnt perfect but was almost there. He is the driver of the year.

Thanks to him for keeping the hopes alive for so long and bringing it down to the last race. Keep going at it man !! :up: :up: :up:

#3974 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:29

All in all I see Alonso as the driver of the year.

He did amazing things when the car was completely hopeless, and he scored a ridiculous number of podiums (13, I think). Like others, I wish he had not been taken out in Spa, and I wish he'd been able to keep fighting in Japan. But mostly I wish the car had been able to rise up for one more race win, somewhere along the line. I have no doubt he did all he could.

Let's see next year what he and the Team can do. A proper car to start the season, a teammate who is awake from the first race; maybe he'll have a little extra left in the tank late in the season.

#3975 akshay380

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:44

I am a Lewis fan followed by Alonso. Alonso drove really really well this year. Wish he had not said those dreading words back in the days. 'As long as the car is not red.... :( Please dont flame me. I believe a lot in luck and you need a truckload of that in F1.

Edited by akshay380, 26 November 2012 - 02:46.


#3976 Bruce

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:51

Gutted. Gutted Gutted.

#3977 SR388

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:54

Sorry to your man.

#3978 George Costanza

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:10

The way Fernando drove this year mirrors Michael Schumacher's 1998 season, some killer drives and races in a car that really wasn't as good as the championship winning car.

He'll be back. I have no doubt about that. I really thought he could pull it off in the 3rd fastest car of the season if we go by the standings.

Edited by George Costanza, 26 November 2012 - 03:11.


#3979 TheF1BOB

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:10

Fred raced well. In fact, it was a miracle he was still in with a fighting chance for the title considering what he had for his disposal.

Kudos to the GOAT and true champion of 2012.

Edited by TheF1BOB, 26 November 2012 - 03:13.


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#3980 jstrains

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 04:52

I cannot get rid off this feeling that eveybody is talking of Fernando Alonso rather than Vettel making it 3. The same during the race - would Fernando make it? :wave:

#3981 wonderwall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:40

Certainly in the last two races his teammate has given him positions on the track. I have no problem with that, as I've been a Ferrari fan for over 30 years. But I didn't think I'd ever have to say that Massa had to give Alonso positions. Not the way Alonso crushed him last year and the first half of this year.

While Alonso has certainly finished on the podium from Korea onwards, you can't deny he has not really been on the pace of the leaders in any of those races. From qualifying to race day, he just did not seem to have the same fire. His qualifying has gone down (4, 5, 6, 7, 7) and his race pace has not threatened whoever was leading the race and fighting for the win. I'm not being critical, just making an observation from available data. His lack of race pace was so noticeable in Austin that my wife (who is not an F-1 fan) kept asking when Alonso was going to get after Vettel and Hamilton.


You should have explained to your wife that the Redbull and Mclarens were much faster cars. The qualifying results you listed are consistent with his qualifying all year. The car is a consistent 3/4th row car in qualifying all year, so ending the season that way was just a reflection of how mediocre it was. Sure Massa beat him in the last 2 qual sessions but he was nowhere as well. Even if Alonso did drop off in some areas, at the end, you could not point to a single race where he could have finished higher, he still maximised his results one way or another.

It's a miracle he finished 3 points behind in the end in a car not in the same class as the redbull. I doubt ever in history has a 3rd or 4th best car came so close to winning the title. Sadly the team let Alonso down badly. They failed to deliver, and there goes another title down the toilet. I think it will affect Alonso bad because he gave so MUCH this season to fight against the massive odds. Unlike Michaels battles in the 90s, when he usually only had 1 team to beat, Alonso had to beat 2 teams consistently and often 3 and 4, which is just unbelievable really. In the rare moments he had both Mclarens and Redbulls beaten, suddenly Williams or Lotus were ahead.

In the end the odds were just too much, but at least his season will go down in legend as one of the very best ever.

Don't worry Alonso, Prost lost 5 titles by a few points, Michael 3, hopefully his luck will change and his team will learn to built a fast car.

Edited by wonderwall, 26 November 2012 - 06:09.


#3982 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 05:52

Go to James Allen and give Massa the driver of the day for his amazing shotgun work :) It's close!
http://www.jamesalle...r-of-the-day-2/

#3983 wonderwall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:04

Oh dear Bruce ...

Race 6 is different to race 11, yes. As is doing it when there are no rules against it vs when there are. I think that one balances out.

Demoting a driver on the grid by voluntarily taking a 5 place penalty, to get your other driver 1 place up the grid - has that ever been done before? To claim that Austria '02 was somehow better than this is stretching things a lot.

I think all 3 moves (Austria 2002, Germany 2010, USA 2012) make a huge amount of sense and were sensible decisions by a team doing everything it can in a competitive sport. You could, though, at least have the decency to accept that the guy you support now is receiving the benefit of exactly the same approach as the guy you derided all those years. Alonso's treatment at Ferrari (and his No 2's) is the same as Schumacher's (and his No 2s') was. Tough to accept for many, for whom Schumacher was the great F1 enemy, I'm sure - but true.


Has a team with both drivers close on points fighting for a title, and early in a season ever taken a new wing off one car and put it on another after that driver crashed and broke his like redbull did in 2010?
There is a huge difference between the team orders in Michaels day and Alonso's which you are failing to understand. Alonso's is dependant on word championship situation while Michaels was not because it was pre determined. Alonso only benefited from team orders late in seasons when Massa was out of title contention, a standard which is in accordance with every other team on the grid!, so to compare this to Michaels team mates moving over at the start of seasons when he was dominating the championship is laughable. Its not just about race 6 or 11, its about the points situation. So the key difference is the context of team orders, which is all its ever been. Team orders have been a part of the sport since the start so what separated Michaels era and pissed people off was the context of his orders, not that they simply existed.

In another post you also tried to justify the Mclaren team orders at Germany 2008 because it maximised the team result that day. So Mclaren were justified in maximising that race result but Ferrari were not justified in maximising their world championship? That does not make sense, unless you believe a single race result out weighs the drivers world championship. You claimed Mclaren would not switched positions if Heikki was leading so in effect you believe Mclaren valued an extra 10 points more than the drivers world champion which is clearly absurd considering everyone knows the drivers title is the main target for the big teams.

If Mclaren were able justify their team orders to maximise, a race, then Ferrari were just as justified in maximising their drivers title. Anything else is pure hypocrisy.

#3984 bl-f1

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:32

Fernando Alonso has shown this season that he is the best Formula 1 driver on a grid where there have been six World Champions.

I respect Vettel's driving and I congratulate him for his driving. However, all the incidents -without exception- from Spa onwards have involved Renault-engined or Red-Bull sponsored cars and these are what have destroyed Alonso's World Championship. I believe with so much money at stake they should be investigated thoroughly. Personally, my opinion is that whereas Vettel is a worthy champion, the result of this year's championship has been manipulated. I believe this is what Fernando Alonso really meant on the press conference after yesterday's race.

Another year gone past. Another WDC gone and the feeling that if this man had been gifted with the PR appeal of Schumacher we would be seeing a very different F1 today.



--

Edited by bl-f1, 26 November 2012 - 06:35.


#3985 kosmos

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:39

So sad the morning after, 3 titles lost in the last race, this one hurts less than 2010 but jeez, everything happen in the last race, safety car, rain, no rain, a lot of tyre changes, Vettel run over at the start.... but I guess even with a beautiful season, it wasn't meant to be. I hope we don't look back to this year in the future and think that Fernando lost the title when he was performing better in his career. He has 4-5 years minimum with Ferrari, let's hope he gets what he deserves at some point.

Started the season 1-1.5 off the pace and finished the season with 3 wins, 13 podiums, 2 poles and 2nd in the WDC, a testament of his talent and Ferrari greatness recovering from a difficult situation.

#3986 ZuTiMa

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:17

So sad the morning after, 3 titles lost in the last race, this one hurts less than 2010 but jeez, everything happen in the last race, safety car, rain, no rain, a lot of tyre changes, Vettel run over at the start.... but I guess even with a beautiful season, it wasn't meant to be. I hope we don't look back to this year in the future and think that Fernando lost the title when he was performing better in his career. He has 4-5 years minimum with Ferrari, let's hope he gets what he deserves at some point.

Started the season 1-1.5 off the pace and finished the season with 3 wins, 13 podiums, 2 poles and 2nd in the WDC, a testament of his talent and Ferrari greatness recovering from a difficult situation.



I believe Ferrari will take a lot from this season and use it to the benefit of next year ... maybe just maybe it will mean more in the long run to the team having finished 2nd than winning it this year... with winning there might be just a bit of complacency or a little less effort and drive to do better next year... now being so close and loosing it will make everyone work just that little bit harder...

#3987 Creepy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:31

So finally as easily predicted it was Vettel who took the Championship. I (and many) believe Alonso would have been a way more worthy 3XWDC, but nonetheless Vettel did nothing wrong so he also deserves it (as Alonso himself said).

But honestly, I can't be sad really as an Alonso fan. He's been title contender this year after a difficult first half and a last quarter where RBR and specially McLaren were faster. And let's not forget Ferrari's been having troubles with his wind tunnel... We still have "Alonso" for a long time. :)

#3988 Raelene

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:52

Has a team with both drivers close on points fighting for a title, and early in a season ever taken a new wing off one car and put it on another after that driver crashed and broke his like redbull .....



IF YOU'D BEEN AROUND HERE FOR YEARS, you'd actually understand the discussion we were having with Bruce...even Bruce get's it - and knows we have a little smile on our face now... FA is No. 1 in Ferrari - from day 1 - he knows it, FM knows it, us fans know it... the whole point of our posts was to point out how people's tunes change depending on the driver involved....

you see, we never had a problem with team orders - the point of the post was to show how suddenly, those that DID have a problem with them, suddenly don't.... pure hypocrisy in your words...

#3989 wonderwall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:55

IF YOU'D BEEN AROUND HERE FOR YEARS, you'd actually understand the discussion we were having with Bruce...even Bruce get's it - and knows we have a little smile on our face now... FA is No. 1 in Ferrari - from day 1 - he knows it, FM knows it, us fans know it... the whole point of our posts was to point out how people's tunes change depending on the driver involved....

you see, we never had a problem with team orders - the point of the post was to show how suddenly, those that DID have a problem with them, suddenly don't.... pure hypocrisy in your words...



But it has been clearly demonstrated Alonso is not number 1 from day one by the fact Massa was allowed to race him until the 11th race of the season. This is a fact no matter how much you keep denying it. You are missing the point which is there are different types of team orders or different contexts. Nobody has ever disagreed with team orders late in the season when one driver is out of contention, but many disagree when it happens early when its not justified which is what happened with Schumacher. Enormous difference and nothing to do with drivers.

Edited by wonderwall, 26 November 2012 - 07:58.


#3990 topical

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:02

So a change of topic: if Ferrari produce another bad car next year and Vettel wins his 4th WDC then signs for Ferrari, do you guys think Alonso will stay at Ferrari as a 2xWDC versus Vettel or will he go to Red Bull or back to McLaren?

#3991 wonderwall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:05

So a change of topic: if Ferrari produce another bad car next year and Vettel wins his 4th WDC then signs for Ferrari, do you guys think Alonso will stay at Ferrari as a 2xWDC versus Vettel or will he go to Red Bull or back to McLaren?



If they fail again last year he should forget the romantic crap and go to Mclaren. He is at serious risk at wasting the rest of his career driving red mules.

#3992 Raelene

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:06

But it has been clearly demonstrated Alonso is not number 1 from day one by the fact Massa was allowed to race him until the 11th race of the season. This is a fact no matter how much you keep denying it. You are missing the point which is there are different types of team orders or different contexts. Nobody has ever disagreed with team orders late in the season when one driver is out of contention, but many disagree when it happens early when its not justified which is what happened with Schumacher. Enormous difference and nothing to do with drivers.



If you think FA is not No 1 in Ferrari then IMO youa re dellusional.

however, you have still missed the point of our posts entirely (understandable considering you are new here) ... you need to understand the history to understand the points made.

BTW - aren't team orders still illegal

and F'YI - I'm a MSC and FA fan...

Edited by Raelene, 26 November 2012 - 08:07.


#3993 Niceone

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:10

Epic car control. Epic!! These modern F1 cars are really cool. They can save slides with an ammount of mass rotating that no degree of countersteer would save 10 years ago.

On the other hand 10 years ago we had traction control..

#3994 wonderwall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:22

If you think FA is not No 1 in Ferrari then IMO youa re dellusional.

however, you have still missed the point of our posts entirely (understandable considering you are new here) ... you need to understand the history to understand the points made.



I'm not the one making claims with no foundation. If you claim Alonso is number 1 from the beginning back it up. I say he is not and explained why. Massa was allowed to race him until race 11, which directly contradicts your claims yet you call me delusional. I can understand your points very clearly. You are trying to equate the team orders of Schumacher and Alonso's era's.

#3995 Raelene

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:37

also - slight difference - team orders weren't illegal in MSC's day....

re you saying you understand the points - well actually you don't

had you been around in the day and seen the hypocracy that happens, you'd understand. No point in debating further as you don't know the history of the poster we were discussing it with



#3996 denthierry

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:53

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104574

Can't believe my eyes when i read this.
Sure, Fred drove a fantastic year, he's an excellent driver and probably a better more complete and mature F1 driver than Seb is.
But sorry, as a person, i find him outright pathetic!

He's had his share of luck too this year, collecting points others weren't and should have.
I know he congratulated Seb waving his hands at thim during the parade lap after the race, but nowhere in any of the post race press conferences have i read one word of appraisal or recognition for Seb winning the WDC. Only blaming others for him not taking the crown. Only piling up feathers on his own hat.
Right, you can be proud. Fine.

He and Ferrari have been claiming all year long his/their car isn't the best.
Sure i don't think there's been any track where his car was the absolute best car to drive. (not even sure of that actually...)
But while early season they kept playing the media with the appearance that their car was a dog, he's been handed a lot of points by teams who perhaps had faster cars but where at that stage unreliable cars, and other teams like Lotus who had an excellent car but as a team simply didn't have the maturity to capitalise on their asset.

Yes, his car was not the best to have in qualifying. But it definitely was giving him one of the best starts of the grid due to a fantastic launch system. Fred often made better use of that than Massa did, credits to him, but my point is proven by Massa's starts often being excellent and above the rest of the field as well.
But of course it looks much more spectacular and 'heroic' to qualify 7th and earn 3 or 4 places on the first straight than starting say 2nd or 3rd and just keeping that position.
Then, race pace wise, with the exception of the two first races, his car has never been a dog at all. It wasn't the fastest, but so what? It was still the AT LEAST the 3rd or 4th fastest on pretty much every circuit (again, maybe not showing in qually, but definitely more 3rd or 2ns fastest race pace wise). So in a season where other "faster" teams are piling up mistakes and and have reliability issues, it's mathematically perfectly normal to end up with a massive points advantage by mid season. He kept the car on track, fine, great stuff, but i wouldn't expect anything else from a top driver who'se been in the sport for 5 more seasons than his main competitor.

"The championship was lost when [Romain] Grosjean flew over my head [at Spa] or when Vettel surprisingly only got a reprimand after qualifying in Japan."
How tacky is that??
This is F1 baby, it's happening all the time and in all directions, just like things have been going your direction many times in the past as well. Get over it, and instead of whining about those two instances, just wonder why you haven't won any more races once the other faster teams finally had their act together.

Back in 2006 i met again with an old spanish friend of mine, from Madrid, who'se name happens to be Alonso as well (not relevant, nothing extraordinary as well). I laughed and joked about his name and his achievements in F1 and the man immediately interrupted me explaining how Fernando Alonso happens to be so disliked in Spain among middle and higher class people, and how pretty much all of his fanbase is to be found within the lower class ignorant mass population. He explained how he's reputed for his enormous ego, his bad character, scupleless antics, and his constant spoiled-kid-whining about injustice when things are not going totally his way.

Great driver, i have actually not the slightest of issues to recognise he might be the very best of the moment, but man, what a turd he is personality wise.

Actually, if there's one guy, which i don't particularly like as well because i think he's just as spoiled and a childish whiner as well, it's Lewis. Without the McLaren mess-ups, he's the one that should have been WDC this year, and no one else. And he's the one who'se been done the most 'injustice' if we look at it from Mr Alonso's perspective and meaning of the word.

No i'm not a Vettel fan. I'm a Kimi fan since he's been around. And yes it seems these two happen to get along well, but that hasn't got any influence on me being glad it's Vettel who took the title rather than Fred. Actually the latter owes that just to himself and his sorry sad personality. Beyond that, Vettel leaves me cold and indifferent. Hat's off to him and RBR though, for pulling it off.

I realise this post won't do my popularity any good, but that's not what i'm here for anyway.
Enjoy Winter, keep up the good work, and see you back in March in Melbourne.

EDIT: I want to stress, (though no one cares i admit), that by no means my intention is to minimalise Alonso's achievement as an F1 pilot this year! It's just his comments and mass manipulation that in my humble and irrelevant opinion are off but seem to work pretty well with many of you.

Edited by denthierry, 26 November 2012 - 09:09.


#3997 wonderwall

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:56

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104574

Can't believe my eyes when i read this.
Sure, Fred drove a fantastic year, he's an excellent driver and probably a better more complete and mature F1 driver than Seb is.
But sorry, as a person, i find him outright pathetic!


Everything he said seemed factual. What's your problem exactly with that? Because you don't like them?

It was still the AT LEAST the 3rd or 4th fastest on pretty much every circuit


Count how many cars that is ahead of him each race, and how many podium spots are available, and how many podiums he scored this year, then you might understand his words a little better.

Edited by wonderwall, 26 November 2012 - 08:58.


#3998 DaiMOn

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:05

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104574
I know he congratulated Seb waving his hands at thim during the parade lap after the race, but nowhere in any of the post race press conferences have i read one word of appraisal or recognition for Seb winning the WDC.


He congratulated him after the race in front of TV cameras... Isn't that enough? Maybe he should buy flowers next time... :drunk:

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#3999 pRy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:14

I don't know but to me it's clear that had Alonso not dropped his performance in the last 4-5 races, he would have won the title.


In the last 5 races of the season he finished higher in the race than he qualified. How is that dropping his performance?

Korea: Q:4 R: 3 (+1) (Behind the two redbulls)
India: Q:5 R: 2 (+3) (Behind Vettel)
Abu D: Q:6 R: 2 (+4) (Behind Raikkonen)
USA: Q:8 R: 3 (+5) (Behind Lewis, Vettel)
BRA: Q:8 R: 2 (+6) (Behind Button)

Yes it could be argued he had a couple of poor qualifying sessions, we don't know why. Maybe Ferrari went in a certain direction in setup to try and counter the fact they weren't quick over one lap but needed to do well in the races. But it can't be argued that Alonso didn't perform every Sunday. He did. The above figures show that. He gained positions in every race and that's probably why in the post race room where they put on their watches and hats, while Vettel, Button etc were casually discussing the races he was sat pouring water over his head looking exhausted. And it's not because he's unfit.

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#4000 jstrains

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:15

On the other hand Vettel complained about Massa and Ferrari in the post race interview on RTL