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Mark Webber - Part II


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#701 joshb

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:15

How do you mean, a normal Webbo quali lap would have cut it? It was already a very good one, there was about nothing between them and it's hard to beat Vettel on a dry saturday. The mistake in the replay wasn't from his fastest lap, iirc.


I just felt that Vettel's lap was scrappy and had Mark really nailed his final flyer, he would've got under that time- he only had to find half a tenth on a track which was ramping up slightly.
I'm not rubbing it in, merely pointing out that had he repeated his brilliant lap from Korea, he would surely have got pole

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#702 Longtimefan

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:24

You know damn well in the race Mark simply won't be allowed to pass Seb, so don't even consider it :(


#703 joshb

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:40

You know damn well in the race Mark simply won't be allowed to pass Seb, so don't even consider it :(


Hopefull Vettel will pull a gap so this debate isn't ignited.

#704 Kelateboy

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:53

Hopefull Vettel will pull a gap so this debate isn't ignited.

Just hoping that the 2 Red Bulls won't take each other out going into the 1st corner!!

#705 showtime

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 11:59

Just hoping that the 2 Red Bulls won't take each other out going into the 1st corner!!


It won't happen. Instead I just hope Webber has a bad start now that he is not in front of Vettel.

#706 Longtimefan

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:27

It won't happen. Instead I just hope Webber has a bad start now that he is not in front of Vettel.


I guess that will happen, Mark has some really terrible starts.

Although I'd love him to dart into 1st place and see how the team squirm :D

Go on Mark!! go for it!!


#707 showtime

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 12:30

I guess that will happen, Mark has some really terrible starts.

Although I'd love him to dart into 1st place and see how the team squirm :D

Go on Mark!! go for it!!


Pit stops...

#708 Sakae

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Posted 27 October 2012 - 18:07

I thought I'd drop in to see the usual entertaining posts in Webber-land, but ... no conspiracy theories, no Karne meltdown , ... I'm disappointed in you folks.

Well then read post #681, which you have obviously missed.

#709 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 04:43

Well then read post #681, which you have obviously missed.

That meltdown does not count since it was for the Korean GP.

She was quite sane this week despite the fact that Webber missed P1 by a whisker. :D

#710 krapmeister

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:51

Well Webber now has a KERS problem so expect her back anytime soon... :lol:

#711 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:50

Lots of big talk from Mark prior to this weekend about not moving over and stuff like that. Well, he aborted his final lap in Q3 yesterday, because nobody was threatening Vettel at that time. And today he backed off real early at the first corner. Let's not listen to Mark that often anymore.

#712 race addicted

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:52

A strong performance (in the circumstances) from Webber who of course lost KERS and with that pace overall, not just the ability to pull sufficiently clear after T3.

#713 joshb

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:55

Grrrr. the one time I wanted him to have a fully functioning car to keep Alonso back, it malfunctions.

#714 krapmeister

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:56

Lots of big talk from Mark prior to this weekend about not moving over and stuff like that. Well, he aborted his final lap in Q3 yesterday, because nobody was threatening Vettel at that time. And today he backed off real early at the first corner. Let's not listen to Mark that often anymore.


IIRC he aborted his final lap because he made an error at T3 and was down on his earlier time. As for the start, Mark is always fairly conservative so no surprise there...

EDIT: Just saw a replay of the start and TBH I think you are being pretty harsh on Mark for the start. Seb was blocking him in tight on the inside line and if he didn't ease off and get back out on the racing line he would've likely been passed by the Mclaren's and Alonso on the run to T3 and down to T4...

Edited by krapmeister, 28 October 2012 - 12:23.


#715 krapmeister

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:57

Grrrr. the one time I wanted him to have a fully functioning car to keep Alonso back, it malfunctions.


Oh right, so you've been wishing him ill luck all along then?


:p

#716 joshb

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:58

A strong performance (in the circumstances) from Webber who of course lost KERS and with that pace overall, not just the ability to pull sufficiently clear after T3.


even in the irst stint, towards the end, his S1 times tailed off horribly, Vwttel was like 44.0 and Mark 44.8 or something like that. He lost 10 secs to Alonso in the middle third of the race

#717 H2H

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:00


Mark had today not the race pace of Seb but did in the end well enough despite the lack of KERS to hold back Lewis. Lots of good points for him and the team.

#718 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:01

Lots of big talk from Mark prior to this weekend about not moving over and stuff like that. Well, he aborted his final lap in Q3 yesterday, because nobody was threatening Vettel at that time. And today he backed off real early at the first corner. Let's not listen to Mark that often anymore.

I presumed you did not watch qualifying yesterday.

Webber made an error into turn 3 on his 2nd flying lap, and had to abort that lap. We was running very close to a slow-moving Hamilton on his outlap and did not get sufficient heat into those options.

Webber in the post-Q PC - "The McLarens were doing a very slow out-laps, and I had no grip in the first sector. "

#719 Kelateboy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:09

Grrrr. the one time I wanted him to have a fully functioning car to keep Alonso back, it malfunctions.

Webber was doing consistent laps in the 1st 20 laps or so in the race. Then about Lap 20 or so, his S1 time dropped considerably. He clocked 44.6s or thereabout, down 0.3-0.4s from his previous laps' S1 sector time. Initially, I thought it was the tyres hitting the cliff, but his S2 and S3 times were very competitive, so that can't be the issue. So the KERS problem must have manifested itself in the 1st stint and it was an on-and-off problem because at times, Webber managed to get his S1 time competitive again.



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#720 karne

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:17

Vettel chop off the startline and then KERS failure. So predictable, you could set your watch by it. F*cking RB jerks.

Not even Casey can save today for me. Between Mark's bad luck and Artur's I've had it with today. Goodnight.

#721 choyothe

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:21

Would be interesting to know if Webber got his KERS back considering he went from low-30s after the announcement to suddenly mid-low-29s about 10 laps later when the gap to Alonso was 3+ seconds.

#722 tsk19xx

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:26

Webber is useless. He shouldn't even be in the position to let Alonso profit from his Kers failure. Losing 10s to Vettel in one stint is a joke.

#723 krapmeister

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:27

Vettel chop off the startline and then KERS failure. So predictable, you could set your watch by it. F*cking RB jerks.

Not even Casey can save today for me. Between Mark's bad luck and Artur's I've had it with today. Goodnight.


Gold.

#724 Longtimefan

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:28

Mark should have gone for it at the first corner, he was almost side by side with Seb then totally chickened out and lifted. Great shame

Guess he's happy being a #2 driver :p



#725 karne

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:30

Mark should have gone for it at the first corner, he was almost side by side with Seb then totally chickened out and lifted. Great shame


So in your opinion he should have held the line and let his teammate actually hit him instead of threatening to? Oh yeah, I can see how that would go. Marko would scream blue murder that Mark so much as looked at Precious Seb and Horner'd probably sack him.

#726 LiJu914

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 12:32

Great to see Karnage back.

#727 Skinnyguy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:03

Mark should have gone for it at the first corner, he was almost side by side with Seb then totally chickened out and lifted. Great shame

Guess he's happy being a #2 driver :p


Are you crazy??? He had his nose in there, and went as far as the inside edge of the track attacking. If anything, he´s too agressive and not ready to play team game. In last race he tried to get Vettel back in the long straight, and forced Vettel to cover the inside line quite heavily.

He´s not yielding yet -despite Lobato´s rubbish, but maybe that´s just what happens when you don´t know how wheel to wheel goes-, and it´s about time now.

#728 Brother Fox

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:18

Great to see Karnage back.

:lol:

Edited by Brother Fox, 28 October 2012 - 13:20.


#729 boldhakka

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 13:28

Mark drove well today, even had a relatively good start. Genuinely unlucky with the KERs.

#730 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 15:04

Webber is useless. He shouldn't even be in the position to let Alonso profit from his Kers failure. Losing 10s to Vettel in one stint is a joke.

Totally agree. One look at Vettels race (one that he was coasting from probably before half-way) tells you he should have been well out of that Ferraris reach. KERS or no KERS.
What he is still doing in that Red Bull is beyond me.

#731 LiJu914

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 15:11

Apparently he just walked out of the PC after ALO and SV were asked thousands of unnecessary questions. :lol:

Cool move (literally) :up:

Edited by LiJu914, 28 October 2012 - 15:12.


#732 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 21:41

Webber is useless. He shouldn't even be in the position to let Alonso profit from his Kers failure. Losing 10s to Vettel in one stint is a joke.


Thank you, new member. Your 2 post contribution is valued.

Did you even watch the race? Webber was always around 4 seconds behind Vettel in the first stint, just outside of the dirty air as he tried to keep some life in his tyres. He didn't lose any real time to Seb until the stops where he pitted first and Seb got on the gas in prep for his own stop a few laps later. As has been noted, Mark lost KERS at about this point and was busy stuffing around with things like brake bias and resetting his KERS in the cockpit and thus was likely a bit distracted. I think all things considered he drove superbly.

#733 goldenboy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:02

Totally agree. One look at Vettels race (one that he was coasting from probably before half-way) tells you he should have been well out of that Ferraris reach. KERS or no KERS.
What he is still doing in that Red Bull is beyond me.

bit harsh really

#734 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:06

bit harsh really

How so? Webber lost more than 10 seconds to his teammate in one stint. And his KERS didnt act up until after his stop. Fernando should have been left behind in the dust with the car Webber had between his hands.

#735 engel

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:11

Mark just chewed his options, was losing roughly a second a lap from lap 21-29 to Vettel which dropped him into Alonso's clutches during the pitstops, that's all. Otherwise he had a decent race, drove quite brilliantly to resist a 20km/h faster DRSed Ferrari repeatedly before KERS gave up on him.

#736 goldenboy

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:11

How so? Webber lost more than 10 seconds to his teammate in one stint. And his KERS didnt act up until after his stop. Fernando should have been left behind in the dust with the car Webber had between his hands.

I thought his kers started playing up lap 20?

edit: according to autosport article he is quoted as saying lap 19 to 20 maybe earlier. Cant remember if his times went off drastically before that though.

still, he has wins this year and they are leading WCC, so yeah I think it's a bit harsh to say he doesn't deserve the seat.

Edited by goldenboy, 28 October 2012 - 22:15.


#737 F.M.

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:14

Mark just chewed his options, was losing roughly a second a lap from lap 21-29 to Vettel which dropped him into Alonso's clutches during the pitstops, that's all. Otherwise he had a decent race, drove quite brilliantly to resist a 20km/h faster DRSed Ferrari repeatedly before KERS gave up on him.

That was due to his KERS not working at that point, not because of his tyres. Read the post-race PC, Webber stated they would have gone way deeper into the race on that first stint if not for having to react to Alonso pitting.

BTW. He lost so much more in those laps because they were trying to find the correct settings for the brake ballance and stuff without KERS and without destroying the front tyres, plus Mark had to acclimatise to the new balance

#738 Silverknight

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:33

I like MarkWebber he is a great guy but he just isn't on the same level as Vettel/Hamilton/Alonso, no where near.

#739 Watkins74

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:37

I don't frequent this thread very often so I apologize if this is a dead horse. How can one driver have so many KERS problems? Is Webber's KERS packaged any differently because of his height?

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#740 Dolph

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:46

I don't frequent this thread very often so I apologize if this is a dead horse. How can one driver have so many KERS problems? Is Webber's KERS packaged any differently because of his height?


I'm haveing the same difficulty understanding this. Webber seems to have KERS problems every second race.

#741 Brother Fox

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 23:18

The conspiracy theorists will tell you its becuase Red Bull intentionally screw him to make Vettel look better/lead the team.
If you've crossed your fingers and willed him on since he was driving Minardis & Jags & Williamseses then bad luck comes as no surprise

Theres some merit in the idea that if theyre trying out new developments that might be flakey and collpase during the race you'd give it to your #2 driver though. That doesnt make it a conspiracy against him, just sensible team play.

#742 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 23:20

I thought his kers started playing up lap 20?

edit: according to autosport article he is quoted as saying lap 19 to 20 maybe earlier. Cant remember if his times went off drastically before that though.

still, he has wins this year and they are leading WCC, so yeah I think it's a bit harsh to say he doesn't deserve the seat.

Nevertheless, he has been in a race winning car for 4 years in a row now. And not once has he finished just behind his teammate in the standings. Always someone else inbetween him and Vettel. Last year he was just 1 measly point from being dropped down to 4th in the standings. With Vettel a whopping 130-some points ahead. This year its the same story. He is in 4th while his colleague is leading. Vettel is darn good but there should not be such a gap. Look at all the flak and hate Massa has gotten for the past two years. But the fact of the matter is that Vettel is decimating his teammate with pretty much the same margin. And yet he somehow flies under the radar instead of receiving the critique he undoubtedly deserves. Its a real mystery to me.

#743 LiJu914

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 23:57

Nevertheless, he has been in a race winning car for 4 years in a row now. And not once has he finished just behind his teammate in the standings. Always someone else inbetween him and Vettel. Last year he was just 1 measly point from being dropped down to 4th in the standings. With Vettel a whopping 130-some points ahead. This year its the same story. He is in 4th while his colleague is leading. Vettel is darn good but there should not be such a gap. Look at all the flak and hate Massa has gotten for the past two years. But the fact of the matter is that Vettel is decimating his teammate with pretty much the same margin. And yet he somehow flies under the radar instead of receiving the critique he undoubtedly deserves. Its a real mystery to me.


That´s just wrong. ALO might win the WDC this year, while Massa is currently 9th (he will most likely go up to 7th though). Webber isn´t anywhere near as bad as this. Last year he was awful, that´s right. But in 2012, 2010,2009 Webber was/is definetly closer to Vettel as Massa was/is to Alonso.

I didn´t pay attention how the media talk about him tbh. But they have ther darlings and maybe he belongs in that category.
Just look at Button - one might think, he drove well this season, they way Sky& the BBC talk about him. But in fact before Suzuka he was in the same position as he is now - 6th. ....and the McLaren had been the fastest car overall until that race - and unlike Hamilton he had rarely reliabilty issues....

Edited by LiJu914, 28 October 2012 - 23:58.


#744 Brother Fox

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:02

Has Massa led, or looked like leading the WDC in the last few years?
Thats why he's criticised. Im going to assume youre just baiting so I'll leave it alone now.

#745 Clatter

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:16

I thought his kers started playing up lap 20?

edit: according to autosport article he is quoted as saying lap 19 to 20 maybe earlier. Cant remember if his times went off drastically before that though.

still, he has wins this year and they are leading WCC, so yeah I think it's a bit harsh to say he doesn't deserve the seat.


Your making the classic mistake of letting facts get in the way of a bash.

#746 zztopless1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:30

*Post Deleted* Faulty Maths.

Edited by zztopless1, 29 October 2012 - 00:33.


#747 karne

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:31

Nevertheless, he has been in a race winning car for 4 years in a row now. And not once has he finished just behind his teammate in the standings. Always someone else inbetween him and Vettel. Last year he was just 1 measly point from being dropped down to 4th in the standings. With Vettel a whopping 130-some points ahead. This year its the same story. He is in 4th while his colleague is leading. Vettel is darn good but there should not be such a gap. Look at all the flak and hate Massa has gotten for the past two years. But the fact of the matter is that Vettel is decimating his teammate with pretty much the same margin. And yet he somehow flies under the radar instead of receiving the critique he undoubtedly deserves. Its a real mystery to me.


*biting tongue*

Don't...feed...the...trolls...

BECAUSE HAVING YOUR CAR NEVER WORK 100% IS BEING DECIMATED.

#748 karne

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:32

Webber is now 77 points behind Vettel with 25 points available. Hope someone asks him the question of moving over for Seb again asap.


No, he's 73 points behind with 75 available. And if Vettel wants the championship he can get off his as$ and win it himself.

#749 zztopless1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:34

No, he's 73 points behind with 75 available. And if Vettel wants the championship he can get off his as$ and win it himself.


Damn, somebody else noticed my stupidity before I did.

#750 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:54

Mark just chewed his options, was losing roughly a second a lap from lap 21-29 to Vettel which dropped him into Alonso's clutches during the pitstops, that's all. Otherwise he had a decent race, drove quite brilliantly to resist a 20km/h faster DRSed Ferrari repeatedly before KERS gave up on him.

I was watching the race and the live timing too, and thought that his tyres had hit the cliff on Lap 20 or so when he lap times dropped. His S1 time was horrible - 44.6s. But after a few laps, he managed to purple his S2 time, and was extremely competitive with S3 time as well. That's when it got me thinking that it must have been KERS issue all over again. Then just a few laps prior to his only pit stop, he managed to up his S1 time to a sub 44s time.