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Mark Webber - Part II


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#801 Kelateboy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:54

I think, India is a good example that Webber´s neverending KERS-Story isn´t a result of the team deliberately sabotaging him (as they would´ve shot themselves in their own feet with that...).

Ps.
You missed some of SV´s technical problems, but that´s not really important.

When it comes to reliabilities, I believe Sebastian has had a worse luck than Webber. This year alone the alternator issue hit Vettel 3 times - 2 in the race, 1 in free practice while Webber has not experienced any race-stoppage reliability issues.

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#802 BCM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:00

Ps.
You missed some of SV´s technical problems, but that´s not really important.


Can you tell me which ones they are? Would like to update the list and to be honest after an hour researching the original ones I've pretty much lost the motivation to dig around for any more! *Edit* I see Vettel had two alternator failures at Italy. One in FP and one in the race.

When it comes to reliabilities, I believe Sebastian has had a worse luck than Webber. This year alone the alternator issue hit Vettel 3 times - 2 in the race, 1 in free practice while Webber has not experienced any race-stoppage reliability issues.


Webber's problem has been he's had his qualifying performance affected by mechanical issues 4 times this year. Twice with 5 place drops due to gearbox changes, once with a DRS failure and once with a KERS issue. Vettel has had it happen once (KERS in Spain). Arguably Webber should have been there to pick up the pieces when Vettel's alternator died at Valencia as well given how quick the RB was with the updates at that race. However his DRS failure in quali killed him before he even started. Who knows he may have even qualified in front of Vettel. So it's not as straight forward as saying that Vettel has lost more because he was in front when his car died.

Edited by BCM, 03 November 2012 - 10:15.


#803 Crossmax

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:11

More problems.

You do get to a point when karne-like thoughts enter your head.

Only if it wasn't for the fact that there is absolutely NOTHING to be gained for Sebastian by compromising Mark in free practice 2.

It's bad luck, as simple as that. People actually thinking that RBR would sabotage Mark's car makes me wonder how narrow-minded one can be.

#804 LiJu914

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:20

Can you tell me which ones they are? Would like to update the list and to be honest after an hour researching the original ones I've pretty much lost the motivation to dig around for any more! *Edit* I see Vettel had two alternator failures at Italy. One in FP and one in the race.


I don´t want to look everything up, but sponataneously i know that in addition to your list SV also had KERS issues in the the Spanish and Canadian GP races in 2011.

Edited by LiJu914, 03 November 2012 - 10:22.


#805 BCM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:30

I don´t want to look everything up, but sponataneously i know that in addition to your list SV also had KERS issues in the the Spanish and Canadian GP races in 2011.


Spanish practice - electrical problems. Assume that was KERS. Already had KERS in quail listed though.
Canada - all I can find is Seb hitting the wall in practice. Nothing about KERS. Looking at RB's website I missed that Webber actually had KERS problems in quali at Canada 2011 as well.

Edited by BCM, 03 November 2012 - 10:34.


#806 LiJu914

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:32

Spanish practice - electrical problems. Assume that was KERS.
Canada - all I can find is Seb hitting the wall in practice. Nothing about KERS. Looking at RB's website I missed that Webber actually had KERS problems in quali at Canada 2011 as well.


With race i meant race, not practice or qualifying.

But as i said, it´s not really important to me, so i don´t want to do any research.

#807 BCM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:36

With race i meant race, not practice or qualifying.

But as i said, it´s not really important to me, so i don´t want to do any research.


Understood. I checked the whole weekends for those events though and that's all I found.

#808 goldenboy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 10:41

think we can add another problem for vettel!

#809 Kelateboy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:03

think we can add another problem for vettel!

Brake issue in FP3 of Abu Dhabi GP which limits his running to a single flying lap. :)

#810 smoothcrim

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:15

and he was still faster than webber lolz,demoralizing.

#811 Kelateboy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:29

and he was still faster than webber lolz,demoralizing.

I believe Webber had the fastest S2 time, but his S1 and S3 times were quite pedestrian!

#812 BCM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:30

That's one a piece for this track then. KERS for Webber. Brake problem for Vettel.

Bigger "problem" appears to be Hamilton though :lol:

Stangely the McLaren seems much quicker in S3 for some reason. I would have expected that to be RBR territory.

Edited by BCM, 03 November 2012 - 11:31.


#813 Kelateboy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:36

That's one a piece for this track then. KERS for Webber. Brake problem for Vettel.

Bigger "problem" appears to be Hamilton though :lol:

Stangely the McLaren seems much quicker in S3 for some reason. I would have expected that to be RBR territory.

Vettel had the quickest S3 time in free practices at 40.876s which he clocked yesterday on his 1:41.751 lap.

He is the only driver to have gone sub 41s on that final sector in all FPs.

#814 Longtimefan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:42

C'mon Mark, have a great qually and beat fingerboy.


#815 showtime

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:50

C'mon Mark, have a great qually and beat fingerboy.


Who cares? We know what the order will be at the end (probably at the first corner). If you want more excitement pray for a miracle that puts the two McLarens in front.

#816 Wolfie

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 11:52

Hello all Webber-fans ;)

Heikki Kulta had an exclusive interview with Mark Webber. Please ignore the Kimi-things, Kulta writes to a Finnish newspaper so he has to sqeeze in Kimi somehow for the Finnish readers - but as soon as he publishes one part of the interview in the newspaper he will also put it on their website, hence there is probably more to come.

Enjoy!


Finding the old speed combines Webber and Räikkönen

F1 | Turun Sanomat 10:42


Turun Sanomat, Abu Dhabi

HEIKKI KULTA

http://www.ts.fi/moo...ia ja Raikkosta


Edited by Wolfie, 08 November 2012 - 21:03.


#817 goldenboy

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:17

thanks great interview!! very interesting.

#818 BCM

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 12:31

Vettel had the quickest S3 time in free practices at 40.876s which he clocked yesterday on his 1:41.751 lap.

He is the only driver to have gone sub 41s on that final sector in all FPs.


Wonder what Webber's problem is then? He seems to really be struggling in S3.

#819 joshb

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:18

Turned it round in qualy- good effort to get front row

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#820 sanjiro

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:21

Nice Q from MW :up:
Fingers crossed for a clear run tomorrow, with no KERS issues

#821 Longtimefan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:23

Hope he has a good start and doesn't wave Seb through. Go Mark!



#822 MrFondue

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:30

Hope he has a good start

:lol:

Seriously though, absymal drive today, showed once again why he'll never be a great one.

#823 goldenboy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:37

shocking race! just abysmal today, hope he does a better job in texas

#824 boldhakka

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:01

Just went and checked to make sure he did in fact start from 2nd on the grid. Should have inherited the win when Lewis retired. He is quite an entertaining racer and character, got to give him that.

#825 H2H

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:31


I just hope that he does well in Austin and I will leave it there.

#826 DarthWillie

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 17:41

Not his best race, but his car was not setup for fighting in a pack. Maldonado crash he can blame himself, Massa fifty fifty, Grosjean crashe they were both not at fault.
After his start he was in trouble.

#827 scandyman

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:21

Not his best race, but his car was not setup for fighting in a pack. Maldonado crash he can blame himself, Massa fifty fifty, Grosjean crashe they were both not at fault.
After his start he was in trouble.

Were there any crash which Mark didnt' take part, I wonder ? :rotfl:
He had complete offday and what was reason for that? Vettel started far away and Mark himself should not had any pressures because he is out of WDC already.

#828 Jon83

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:29

Very poor race. Is there anyone on the grid who has worse starts?

#829 drunkenmaster

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:06

The funny thing is, if Vettel had started from 3rd and Webber botched again his start like today, Webbo fans would be crying that he had team orders to let Vettel slip through. But face it, he's simply a lousy starter, that's all about it... :lol:

#830 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:40

Very poor race. Is there anyone on the grid who has worse starts?

Grosjean :lol: albeit for other reasons.

To paraphrase his sentiments towards Grosjean, Webber was a nutcase today attempting moves that just would never work.

Edited by TheUltimateWorrier, 04 November 2012 - 19:46.


#831 krapmeister

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:42

Well to be fair to Mark he had to go for the 50-50 moves because he was just not going to be able to pass anyone on the straights due to the poor top speed his car had. But he could've given a bit more room to Maldonado and even though he did with Massa he didn't get much in return - attempting passes on these 2 though is always a bit of a risky proposition. Was a bit lucky he didn't get a penalty with the re-entry onto the track with Massa and I dare say if he and Massa had've connected he probably would've recieved a penalty like Perez did for the same thing later in the race. Very unlucky to be taken out by Grosjean later but had he had a better start, he wouldn't have been there as he then shouldn't have been trying to pass Maldo and later Massa.

So yet another disappointing race for Mark at Abu Dhabi - let's hope he has a better result in Texas...

Edited by krapmeister, 04 November 2012 - 21:45.


#832 smoothcrim

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:09

Why didnt anyone ask him about his start?

How does everyone but him get a DECENT START,its beyond a joke.

Edited by smoothcrim, 04 November 2012 - 22:14.


#833 icecream

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:24

^ yep, i think that's a fair summary. some people are jumping up and down, and yeah he didn't have a great race, but dropping him into the grosjean train was hardly helpful. i'm guessing he would have moved over for seb given the right opportunity. he'd be stupid otherwise.

also, i don't think i've ever seen a TR move over for webber, even at the same race in 2010.

#834 bl-f1

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:32

Grosjean :lol: albeit for other reasons.

To paraphrase his sentiments towards Grosjean, Webber was a nutcase today attempting moves that just would never work.


Webber drove a fantastic race today.
He nearly took out Massa and when he saw a chance to cause a safety car he took it.
He could not wipe the smile off his face when he made it back to the pit wall.
Great second driver I would say.

#835 joshb

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:32

^ yep, i think that's a fair summary. some people are jumping up and down, and yeah he didn't have a great race, but dropping him into the grosjean train was hardly helpful. i'm guessing he would have moved over for seb given the right opportunity. he'd be stupid otherwise.

also, i don't think i've ever seen a TR move over for webber, even at the same race in 2010.


all they had to do was let Vettel past and follow him for 4 or 5 laps, get the gap to Grosjean, then pit and get a net 5th behind Seb, Button, Alonso, Kimi. Turns out to be suicidal call and Seb nearly got put there with that slow right rear on the stop.


#836 Ian G

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:52

all they had to do was let Vettel past and follow him for 4 or 5 laps, get the gap to Grosjean, then pit and get a net 5th behind Seb, Button, Alonso, Kimi. Turns out to be suicidal call and Seb nearly got put there with that slow right rear on the stop.


Yeah,another poor strategy for Mark from the team,his crash was out of character,like Button he usually backs off and waits to see what develops when cars in front touch but he shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.Another sloppy start,over aggressive & poor judgement,his team mate flying,race to forget for Mark.

#837 Shiroo

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:55

I just dont know why the fu** RBR cant set a car like they did for Vettel, he would still get like top 6 place for sure, but would be sooooooooo better during a race.

#838 engel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:12

I just dont know why the fu** RBR cant set a car like they did for Vettel, he would still get like top 6 place for sure, but would be sooooooooo better during a race.


Vettel wasn't that fast in clean air. The car is setup to lead from the front, that's the compromise that gets them the fastest lap time. Ferrari for example can't make the same compromise so they set their car up to catch up in the race. Not all cars are created equal, not all cars benefit from the same setup.

#839 LoudHoward

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:18

Marks starts need a bit of James Allen commentary gold; "GET OUT AND PUSH MARK! GET OUT AND PUSH!"

Between that, braking about 2km too early for T4 on the opening lap, and deciding to squeeze Maldonado of all people when he's inside you and you haven't cleared him, well, it was a shocker. I don't get how sometime he looks like a king in traffic, and then other times he's channeling his inner Schumacher-In-Traffic.

Thank christ for Massa and his hilarity.

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#840 lbennie

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:19

When red bull insist on only setting up the car for saturday, this is what happens.

unless you whack it on pole and drive off into the distance, you have to take tremendous risks to get past anyone.

with lewis dominating and mark's poor history of starts, i'm flabbergasted they don't at least make a compromise between straight line speed/drs and qualy speed.



#841 LoudHoward

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:30

Vettel wasn't that fast in clean air.


*shrugs* Seb got fastest lap, had comprimised his setup for top line speed (he was 4th fastest at the top end). I don't know if you watched the Sky feed, but the comments from Brundle and Ted about him not being that quick (I think they said this around lap 6 or 7) seemed false for me. At the time it was said he appeared to me to be matching everyone but Hamilton, was on the harder tyre and had a damaged front wing.

#842 matt72

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:32

I don't often post on these forums, I enjoy reading what others think and when I do post I try not to say anything too inflammatory, but really what is Mark Webber about nowadays.
I live in Australia, so I used to be a big big fan and definitely a subscriber to the "If it wasn't for bad luck Mark wouldn't have any luck at all" school of thought, especially during his Williams seasons. However nowadays I think he's a spent force, but worse than that I think he's a spent force with a false sense of his own abilities. I know he has been involved in some very close racing with Fernando lately where everyone goes Wow look at the race craft, but they are mates and take care with each other, in so many other instances I just think Mark is just a bit clumsy and also arrogant, there seem to me to have been so many incidents where he has wheel to wheel contact with drivers who are either alongside or even slightly ahead during a passing manouvre and Mark just won't adjust his line. His crash with Grosjean was very poor today, it was a complete melee in front of him involving desperate midfielders including one whom Webber has branded as a nutcase, yet he just went for it at the most chaotic moment of that incident like some desperate dan.

If he'd been intelligent last night, he would have let Vettel through when the team asked, focused on his own lap time and trying to get the best option for track position after his pitstop and would probably have avoided that whole scrum just like Vettel did, instead he did his tough guy I'm not letting anyone past even if it's my teammate act and held Vettel up forcing the team to pit him early to get him out of the way so as to maximise Vettels race pace and to avoid the potential for an incident. Seriously what else did he think would happen in such an important race at this point of the season, "No it's OK Mark you're so likely to win the WDC this year, so go ahead and race Seb, we don't care about the risk to our three times in a row WDC and the millions of $$ marketing value, you 2 go ahead and have a crash like in Turkey." What a muppet.

Instead of letting off with his mouth every time someone clashes with them and branding them as a nutter or a stupid kid - Grosjean, Hamilton, Vettel, Massa to name the ones I can recall, perhaps he needs to see how many incidents he has been involved with other drivers and count how many have been his fault, there have been plenty.

I reckon Webber likes to think he's the wise tough Aussie with balls of steel who never makes a mistake and who tells it like it is and won't compromise for anyone. I just think he's a bit slow, a bit clumsy and a bit thick when it comes to his position in the team and some of the comments he makes in relation to that, People in other threads like to pillory Button for being 'slow' compared to Hamilton, the difference is JB does actually have some decent race craft and generally keeps his nose clean, he also makes very sure not to piss off the team with ill advised jibes and backhanders, hence Mclaren back him to the max even though many might believe he isn't the equal of Lewis.

#843 engel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:34

*shrugs* Seb got fastest lap, had comprimised his setup for top line speed (he was 4th fastest at the top end). I don't know if you watched the Sky feed, but the comments from Brundle and Ted about him not being that quick (I think they said this around lap 6 or 7) seemed false for me. At the time it was said he appeared to me to be matching everyone but Hamilton, was on the harder tyre and had a damaged front wing.


Seb barely got fastest lap, with fresher options, while everybody else was on primes ;)

In the race he wasn't that fast when in clean air

#844 Skinnyguy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:35

Great to see fans admitting reality :up: :up:

I also thought he would surely be WDC one day during his Jaguar days. He was just stunning. He looked still really good most of his Williams stint, I still regarded him as a star in the making. But not anymore. He´s a solid driver that can get a result with a good car, but far off the 4 top drivers on the grid.

#845 Skinnyguy

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:37

In the race he wasn't that fast when in clean air


He was sort of matching everyone but Lewis in primes and with a whacked front wing as soon as he got out of traffic. And it was not exactly near the zone where options were fading away in 20ish laps, it was way earlier.

#846 LoudHoward

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:42

When red bull insist on only setting up the car for saturday, this is what happens.

unless you whack it on pole and drive off into the distance, you have to take tremendous risks to get past anyone.

with lewis dominating and mark's poor history of starts, i'm flabbergasted they don't at least make a compromise between straight line speed/drs and qualy speed.


I can almost understand it this year.

Last year though, I have no idea why he didn't try for some top end a couple of times at least. Bleh.

#847 Ian G

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:48

I don't often post on these forums, I enjoy reading what others think and when I do post I try not to say anything too inflammatory, but really what is Mark Webber about nowadays.


Yeah Matt,you make some good points and they certainly applied over the W/end but overall Mark is a down to earth guy who has had to claw his way to the top.The basic problem the last couple of seasons has been his poor starts,everything compounds from there and is multiplied by RB favouring Seb. in the race strategy.Without knowing whats going on in the background his race was completely out of character(except for the start),over aggressive,poor judgement & ridiculous overtaking moves,i'm sure he will bounce back.

#848 BillBald

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:09

When red bull insist on only setting up the car for saturday, this is what happens.

unless you whack it on pole and drive off into the distance, you have to take tremendous risks to get past anyone.

with lewis dominating and mark's poor history of starts, i'm flabbergasted they don't at least make a compromise between straight line speed/drs and qualy speed.


I have the impression that all the thought at Red Bull goes into Seb's setup and strategy.

Webber is often in the position of having to overtake, so his car needs to be set up differently.



#849 Jimisgod

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:20

Sorry to Webber, but I want to see Dan in the car instead. Surely being involved in an incident with a Red Bull in a SC is a good omen that Dan is truly a future star.

Edited by Jimisgod, 05 November 2012 - 00:20.


#850 halbvoll

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:25

I have the impression that all the thought at Red Bull goes into Seb's setup and strategy.

Webber is often in the position of having to overtake, so his car needs to be set up differently.


In qualifying, Webber is almost as quick as Vettel - sometimes even quicker. Setting his car up for overtaking during the race would make him suffer in qualifying. I don't think he would accept that. It would make sense, though since he rarely uses a good grid position to his advantage (poor starts) - unlike his teammate.

Edited by halbvoll, 05 November 2012 - 00:25.