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Mark Webber - Part II


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#851 LoudHoward

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:30

I have the impression that all the thought at Red Bull goes into Seb's setup and strategy.

Webber is often in the position of having to overtake, so his car needs to be set up differently.


I think Mark and his guys are capable of making a good racey setup, they're all experienced and know their way around an F1 car. I also think Mark often gets very good strategies from RBR, often prioritised over Seb (because he's looking after his tyres better, or has a bit in hand the cars he's racing).

My theory is that RBR have a car that gets its best laptime when it's quicker in the start of the straight, and epic through the turns (no surprise there), no doubt Newey and the team come out with a pretty close approximation of the optimal downforce level to get the best laptime before the start of the weekend, and from there it's a bit of tweaking to get each driver tuned in (again no surprise). I suspect, rather than some machiavellian conspiracy by RBR management, or lack of ability on behalf of Marks engineers, it's Mark himself who can't bring himself to go for an "overtaking" strategy.

We can argue the rights and wrongs of going for a slower (laptime) setup in trade of a faster (straights) car all day, but Seb wins races and championships by leading from the front. If Mark says "alright I'm going for this overtaking setup" he's basically admitting he can't beat Seb in a straight fight. He's holding up the white flag, he'll be setting his car to pass people that he shouldn't be behind in the first place, and he knows that.

That might be admirable to some, but I think it's stupid though. Mark needs to play to his strengths, anticipate and mitigate his weaknesses. His weaknesses are being slower than Seb in qually, and crap off the line and timid into the first corner. He sets his car up as though he's Seb over a flyer, and Fernando on the first lap. It's silly. Of all the drivers on the grid I thought Mark might've been one of the few who would man up and do that, but ego seems to be getting in the way.

/Rant. Just IMO from the outside.

Edited by LoudHoward, 05 November 2012 - 00:32.


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#852 Brother Fox

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:06

Not much to take out of that race as a fan.
Bad start, 2 clumsy overtaking moves, a stupid pit timing and finally tripping over an accident.



#853 karne

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:29

I don't understand about the starts. Ever since Monaco he's been jumping just fine and holding or even gaining into the first corner. But the last couple of races - what the hell?!!?!?!?

Mark was really hurt in that battle with Fernando by the long seventh gear, then he seemed to have an idiot magnet attached to him. I mean, sure, you always need to give Maldonado plenty of room because he will crash into you, but Massa was just a moron, drove straight across the corner, Mark gave him tons of space, and then he was the innocent victim of some majorly rookie driving from Perez, Grosjean and di Resta. Hope he gave at least one of them a taste of his right hook.

And of course Red Bull's behaviour was just disgusting, them telling Mark to let Vettel by was bad enough, but then deliberately sabotaging his pitstop strategy just to get Golden Brat by! Unforgiveable! If they think that little of Golden Brat's wheel to wheel racing that they don't trust him to fight with Mark, then maybe it's VETTEL who needs the lessons and instruction, not Mark.

Once again, the situation remains the same:

Vettel: ALL THE LUCK

Mark: NO LUCK

#854 lbennie

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:47

yeh, massa fully punted him off the track in their incident. mark left him plenty of space, he was never going to make the corner.

can see why the stewards let it go despite mark cutting the chicane.



#855 engel

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:01

And of course Red Bull's behaviour was just disgusting, them telling Mark to let Vettel by was bad enough, but then deliberately sabotaging his pitstop strategy just to get Golden Brat by! Unforgiveable! If they think that little of Golden Brat's wheel to wheel racing that they don't trust him to fight with Mark, then maybe it's VETTEL who needs the lessons and instruction, not Mark.



In that respect RedBull was perfectly justified. Webber needed to outscore Alonso by 10 points to stay in the championship. ie at that point he was out of the championship since he was behind Alonso. RedBull needed Vettel to minimize the point loss to Alonso. Had Mark moved over and let Vettel through in all probability Mark would have gotten P3 in the end with Vettel P5 behind Button. Fighting Vettel at that point was 100% dumb and just damaging to the team, RedBull were right to pull Mark out of Vettel's way.

Edited by engel, 05 November 2012 - 02:01.


#856 Alfisti

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:03

I don't understand about the starts. Ever since Monaco he's been jumping just fine and holding or even gaining into the first corner. But the last couple of races - what the hell?!!?!?!?

Mark was really hurt in that battle with Fernando by the long seventh gear, then he seemed to have an idiot magnet attached to him. I mean, sure, you always need to give Maldonado plenty of room because he will crash into you, but Massa was just a moron, drove straight across the corner, Mark gave him tons of space, and then he was the innocent victim of some majorly rookie driving from Perez, Grosjean and di Resta. Hope he gave at least one of them a taste of his right hook.

And of course Red Bull's behaviour was just disgusting, them telling Mark to let Vettel by was bad enough, but then deliberately sabotaging his pitstop strategy just to get Golden Brat by! Unforgiveable! If they think that little of Golden Brat's wheel to wheel racing that they don't trust him to fight with Mark, then maybe it's VETTEL who needs the lessons and instruction, not Mark.

Once again, the situation remains the same:

Vettel: ALL THE LUCK

Mark: NO LUCK


Luck?? He should have won the race by following lewis into turn one and being there we the maclaren lost its lunch instead of Kimi being in P2.

The responsibility sits firmly with the outside man on a 2x2 corner, he HAS to go wide and leave enough room. Against Massa you could possibly argue he did but going there again after being caught out against maldonado was outright odd. He turned in on Maldonado, 100% Mark's fault and I am surprised there was no penalty.

It was a horrible race.


#857 LoudHoward

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:03

Mark: NO LUCK


Is 'no' another term for 'really awesome' in your reality because that's the only way I can make the above into any sense.

Lets look at Marks Saturday and Sunday.

- Has 2nd fastest car.
- Teammate has mechanical issue in FP3 and procedural issues in qually.
- Teammate starts from pitlane.
- Next guy behind him on the grid doesn't have the greatest race pace.
- Only car faster than his breaks down.
- Sets the record for the most consecutive races in history without a mechanical DNF.

Awful luck there, really awful.

Edited by LoudHoward, 05 November 2012 - 02:08.


#858 Alfisti

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:06

Oh and let's not even start talking about Vettel, being on Hard runner the first safety car was not good (regardless of the styrofoam incident). The second SC merely made up for the first. He was clumsy though.

#859 Alfisti

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:07

Is 'no' another term for 'really awesome' in your reality because that's the only way I can make the above into any sense.

Lets look at Marks Saturday and Sunday.

- Has 2nd fastest car.
- Teammate has mechanical and procedural issues in qually.
- Teammate starts from pitlane.
- Next guy behind him on the grid doesn't have the greatest race pace.
- Only car faster than his breaks down.
- Sets the record for the most races in history without a mechanical DNF.

Awful luck there, really awful.


I agree with most of it but whilst he has not had a DNF due to mech issue she's had a shed load of KERS problems. He also lost a lot of Friday so sort of cancels out Seb's saturday issues. But fundamental i agree.

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#860 Watkins74

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:08

Luck?? He should have won the race by following lewis into turn one and being there we the maclaren lost its lunch instead of Kimi being in P2.

The responsibility sits firmly with the outside man on a 2x2 corner, he HAS to go wide and leave enough room. Against Massa you could possibly argue he did but going there again after being caught out against maldonado was outright odd. He turned in on Maldonado, 100% Mark's fault and I am surprised there was no penalty.

It was a horrible race.

:up:

#861 Alfisti

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:21

:up:


To be fair, Mark's wheel to wheel racing has been fantastic for a few years now, it was poor early in his career but he has been underqualifying the car a bit plus it has bags of grip but no straight line speed so he has been creative in the past.

#862 Watkins74

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:24

To be fair, Mark's wheel to wheel racing has been fantastic for a few years now, it was poor early in his career but he has been underqualifying the car a bit plus it has bags of grip but no straight line speed so he has been creative in the past.

:up:  ;)

#863 gowebber

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:18

Well a horrible race I'm sure Mark would like to forget. Some clumsy moves against even clumsier drivers were a little out of character for Mark last night. Still it all boils down to his starts.

Last night start was a shocker after having a few decent ones in the past few races. FFS why can't Mark and RBR sort this out?? Surely they can practice it until he is practically blue in the face and starts nailing them. Can't even imagine the amount of points, podiums and wins he has lost due to bad starts. Its the bane of his career.

Really up until last night I don't think he has been driving that badly this year. His qualli of late has been very good. The problem is there is almost always some piece of the jigsaw puzzle missing on a race weekend for him. Drivers like Seb and Alonso get the job done race after race regardless of the hand they are dealt. Mark needs to start making his own luck, keep his head and make some smarter decisions during the race. Why the fark did he not go up the inside of Maldonado or Massa last night instead of outside passes. Also the switchback move in the corner before the DRS zones and then using KERS to help pass worked well for alot of drivers. Some KERS reliability amongst the other crap he has had to deal with wouldn't be bad either. Roll on Texas!

Edited by gowebber, 05 November 2012 - 03:22.


#864 Sardukar

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:19

Webber was looking likely to win the WDC in the first half of the season, but it all fell apart from italy onwards. For people to come out now and say he is a "spent force" is just a great example of how F1 fans have incredibly short memories.

#865 SR388

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 03:51

Dude hit everything but the pace car out there today. I hope he is able to get it together and knock up some strong performances for these next two. Next two tracks should suit the car.

#866 LukeM

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:01

I don't often post on these forums, I enjoy reading what others think and when I do post I try not to say anything too inflammatory, but really what is Mark Webber about nowadays.
I live in Australia, so I used to be a big big fan and definitely a subscriber to the "If it wasn't for bad luck Mark wouldn't have any luck at all" school of thought, especially during his Williams seasons. However nowadays I think he's a spent force, but worse than that I think he's a spent force with a false sense of his own abilities. I know he has been involved in some very close racing with Fernando lately where everyone goes Wow look at the race craft, but they are mates and take care with each other, in so many other instances I just think Mark is just a bit clumsy and also arrogant, there seem to me to have been so many incidents where he has wheel to wheel contact with drivers who are either alongside or even slightly ahead during a passing manouvre and Mark just won't adjust his line. His crash with Grosjean was very poor today, it was a complete melee in front of him involving desperate midfielders including one whom Webber has branded as a nutcase, yet he just went for it at the most chaotic moment of that incident like some desperate dan.

If he'd been intelligent last night, he would have let Vettel through when the team asked, focused on his own lap time and trying to get the best option for track position after his pitstop and would probably have avoided that whole scrum just like Vettel did, instead he did his tough guy I'm not letting anyone past even if it's my teammate act and held Vettel up forcing the team to pit him early to get him out of the way so as to maximise Vettels race pace and to avoid the potential for an incident. Seriously what else did he think would happen in such an important race at this point of the season, "No it's OK Mark you're so likely to win the WDC this year, so go ahead and race Seb, we don't care about the risk to our three times in a row WDC and the millions of $$ marketing value, you 2 go ahead and have a crash like in Turkey." What a muppet.

Instead of letting off with his mouth every time someone clashes with them and branding them as a nutter or a stupid kid - Grosjean, Hamilton, Vettel, Massa to name the ones I can recall, perhaps he needs to see how many incidents he has been involved with other drivers and count how many have been his fault, there have been plenty.

I reckon Webber likes to think he's the wise tough Aussie with balls of steel who never makes a mistake and who tells it like it is and won't compromise for anyone. I just think he's a bit slow, a bit clumsy and a bit thick when it comes to his position in the team and some of the comments he makes in relation to that, People in other threads like to pillory Button for being 'slow' compared to Hamilton, the difference is JB does actually have some decent race craft and generally keeps his nose clean, he also makes very sure not to piss off the team with ill advised jibes and backhanders, hence Mclaren back him to the max even though many might believe he isn't the equal of Lewis.


:up: Never seen such a poor drive in his entire career and really that race represents why he was never good enough to be a world champ. He really is similar to DC where he had his ace tracks but was way too erratic when the pressure was very high.

#867 HoldenRT

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 04:31

Hard to defend him after a race like that.

But people's memories are short in F1.. think back to after Silverstone..

And I do NOT think that Seb's setup was comprimised in any way. I think it was Webber's setup who was compromised.. because he had to qualify with it. Seb was able to do a RACE ONLY setup.. yeah.. the wing might have been less.. the gearing was longer.. but what about the suspension? Wouldn't they have eased up on that a bit to help tyre wear? Or other things like this? Ride height? How would any F1 team opt to start from the pitlane and choose a lesser setup? The whole challenge.. is finding compromises for quali and the race. Starting from the pitlane avoids that compromise.

I think that Redbull should do that more often and start doing Alonso's way. The compromise is a poorer quali.. but the straight line speed and race pace is strong.

For Webber.. it's hard to pinpoint any one area he drove that bad.. IMO.. the start was bad.. his overtaking was bad.. but he is nowhere near as bad as what it appeared in that race.

Perhaps what we can agree on most.. is that for any Webber fan or supporter.. to watch a race like that was bordering on torture. I was glad when he was finally out of the race. Really embaressing..

#868 gowebber

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:27

Hard to defend him after a race like that.

But people's memories are short in F1.. think back to after Silverstone..

And I do NOT think that Seb's setup was comprimised in any way. I think it was Webber's setup who was compromised.. because he had to qualify with it. Seb was able to do a RACE ONLY setup.. yeah.. the wing might have been less.. the gearing was longer.. but what about the suspension? Wouldn't they have eased up on that a bit to help tyre wear? Or other things like this? Ride height? How would any F1 team opt to start from the pitlane and choose a lesser setup? The whole challenge.. is finding compromises for quali and the race. Starting from the pitlane avoids that compromise.

I think that Redbull should do that more often and start doing Alonso's way. The compromise is a poorer quali.. but the straight line speed and race pace is strong.

For Webber.. it's hard to pinpoint any one area he drove that bad.. IMO.. the start was bad.. his overtaking was bad.. but he is nowhere near as bad as what it appeared in that race.

Perhaps what we can agree on most.. is that for any Webber fan or supporter.. to watch a race like that was bordering on torture. I was glad when he was finally out of the race. Really embaressing..


Yeah pretty much agree, a real howler for Mark, but not representative of his overall ability. He is not far off and when he has no problems can be very good. Just needs to fix those bloody starts and be a bit more patient and cunning in the race. Expect a big comeback at Texas ;)

#869 LoudHoward

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:39

And I do NOT think that Seb's setup was comprimised in any way.


When I said comprimised I was referring to his single lap speed in clean air, not the cars ability in traffic or to look after it's tyres. No doubt Seb had a good setup for that, look at what he could do. Mark should've taken note, or done it 18 months ago. :(

Edited by LoudHoward, 05 November 2012 - 05:40.


#870 LiJu914

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 22:14

This might be an odd request, but:

Could one of the loyal, longtime Webber-supporters tell me some things about Webber´s 2005-season at Williams.
Looking at the results it appeared to be his weakest season (in relation to his teammates´ achievements) before Vettel became his teammate.
Was Heidfeld actually the better guy in the majority of the races or did other factors lead to the points-score (like 2007 against Coulthard, where a large part came down to Fuji...)?

Edited by LiJu914, 06 November 2012 - 23:00.


#871 joshb

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 22:33

Hard to defend him after a race like that.

But people's memories are short in F1.. think back to after Silverstone..

And I do NOT think that Seb's setup was comprimised in any way. I think it was Webber's setup who was compromised.. because he had to qualify with it. Seb was able to do a RACE ONLY setup.. yeah.. the wing might have been less.. the gearing was longer.. but what about the suspension? Wouldn't they have eased up on that a bit to help tyre wear? Or other things like this? Ride height? How would any F1 team opt to start from the pitlane and choose a lesser setup? The whole challenge.. is finding compromises for quali and the race. Starting from the pitlane avoids that compromise.

I think that Redbull should do that more often and start doing Alonso's way. The compromise is a poorer quali.. but the straight line speed and race pace is strong.

For Webber.. it's hard to pinpoint any one area he drove that bad.. IMO.. the start was bad.. his overtaking was bad.. but he is nowhere near as bad as what it appeared in that race.

Perhaps what we can agree on most.. is that for any Webber fan or supporter.. to watch a race like that was bordering on torture. I was glad when he was finally out of the race. Really embaressing..


Fair point about the qualy setup. With 2 of the best qualifiers on the grid, RB can surely afford to give away a tenth in qualy if it gives them good race pace and good speed in battle, as the drivers would still put it high up on the grid

#872 Ian G

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 23:19

Could one of the loyal, longtime Webber-supporters tell me some things about Webber´s 2005-season at Williams.
Looking at the results it appeared to be his weakest season (in relation to his teammates´ achievements) before Vettel became his teammate.
Was Heidfeld actually the better guy in the majority of the races or did other factors lead to the points-score (like 2007 against Coulthard, where a large part came down to Fuji...)?


..from the horses mouth...

http://www.markwebbe...-williams-2005/


My memory is hazy but what Mark alludes too is Frank blamed Mark for the cars poor performance,apparently he had a wretched time there and did not gel with many of the staff.Frank took until 2011(2010?) to admit he was wrong about Mark but some Journo's feel that was only because the paddock talk was that Mark was leaving RB and he thought that instead of Mark retiring he may get an experienced driver(& the Renault Engine) at a reasonable fee.

There is a guy(forget his name) that posts on this Forum that will know the smallest detail's of Marks F-1 career so hopefully he will see your post and reply.

#873 Alfisti

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:50

This might be an odd request, but:

Could one of the loyal, longtime Webber-supporters tell me some things about Webber´s 2005-season at Williams.
Looking at the results it appeared to be his weakest season (in relation to his teammates´ achievements) before Vettel became his teammate.
Was Heidfeld actually the better guy in the majority of the races or did other factors lead to the points-score (like 2007 against Coulthard, where a large part came down to Fuji...)?


Mark was clearly the faster driver, Heidfeld did a great job of being in the right place at the right time, credit to him. However, by the end of the year you'd hand mark the keys to your car, he always looked the man most likely.

#874 Sardukar

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:56

Heidfield was consistently good enough to score points. Webber took more risks (and probably had more development parts) and ended up with more DNFs and errors. But it was pretty clear Webber was the faster driver. Nick was very quick though.

#875 apoka

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:36

*shrugs* Seb got fastest lap, had comprimised his setup for top line speed (he was 4th fastest at the top end). I don't know if you watched the Sky feed, but the comments from Brundle and Ted about him not being that quick (I think they said this around lap 6 or 7) seemed false for me. At the time it was said he appeared to me to be matching everyone but Hamilton, was on the harder tyre and had a damaged front wing.

Still seems false to me:

http://en.mclarenf-1...er#.UJn_NRJ3Sok

Around laps 6/7 he was as fast as Webber, although he was in traffic on harder tyres with a low downforce setup. For the rest of the race Vettel was also faster, but on fresher or different tyres.

#876 Longtimefan

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 11:23

I think Mark has sadly finally proved to everyone why he'll never be WDC material.

I hate to get on his case but in all honesty I am not sure he even deserves a seat in that car next season.



#877 Jon83

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:15

Sorry to Webber, but I want to see Dan in the car instead. Surely being involved in an incident with a Red Bull in a SC is a good omen that Dan is truly a future star.


:lol:

Interesting logic.

Except that on this occasion, there wasn't much of an incident :up:

#878 H2H

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:16

I don't often post on these forums, I enjoy reading what others think and when I do post I try not to say anything too inflammatory, but really what is Mark Webber about nowadays.
I live in Australia, so I used to be a big big fan and definitely a subscriber to the "If it wasn't for bad luck Mark wouldn't have any luck at all" school of thought, especially during his Williams seasons. However nowadays I think he's a spent force, but worse than that I think he's a spent force with a false sense of his own abilities. I know he has been involved in some very close racing with Fernando lately where everyone goes Wow look at the race craft, but they are mates and take care with each other, in so many other instances I just think Mark is just a bit clumsy and also arrogant, there seem to me to have been so many incidents where he has wheel to wheel contact with drivers who are either alongside or even slightly ahead during a passing manouvre and Mark just won't adjust his line. His crash with Grosjean was very poor today, it was a complete melee in front of him involving desperate midfielders including one whom Webber has branded as a nutcase, yet he just went for it at the most chaotic moment of that incident like some desperate dan.

If he'd been intelligent last night, he would have let Vettel through when the team asked, focused on his own lap time and trying to get the best option for track position after his pitstop and would probably have avoided that whole scrum just like Vettel did, instead he did his tough guy I'm not letting anyone past even if it's my teammate act and held Vettel up forcing the team to pit him early to get him out of the way so as to maximise Vettels race pace and to avoid the potential for an incident. Seriously what else did he think would happen in such an important race at this point of the season, "No it's OK Mark you're so likely to win the WDC this year, so go ahead and race Seb, we don't care about the risk to our three times in a row WDC and the millions of $$ marketing value, you 2 go ahead and have a crash like in Turkey." What a muppet.

Instead of letting off with his mouth every time someone clashes with them and branding them as a nutter or a stupid kid - Grosjean, Hamilton, Vettel, Massa to name the ones I can recall, perhaps he needs to see how many incidents he has been involved with other drivers and count how many have been his fault, there have been plenty.

I reckon Webber likes to think he's the wise tough Aussie with balls of steel who never makes a mistake and who tells it like it is and won't compromise for anyone. I just think he's a bit slow, a bit clumsy and a bit thick when it comes to his position in the team and some of the comments he makes in relation to that, People in other threads like to pillory Button for being 'slow' compared to Hamilton, the difference is JB does actually have some decent race craft and generally keeps his nose clean, he also makes very sure not to piss off the team with ill advised jibes and backhanders, hence Mclaren back him to the max even though many might believe he isn't the equal of Lewis.


I think you are doing a good job at trying to understand what is going on. Personally I just want to add that it is important to keep the season as a whole present. Mark did have some great races and had quite some fine and clean overtakes. While his race pace has not on his teammates level, something which is not exactly recent news, his Quali form is quite strong.

On a sidenote I agree that he has plenty of goodwill in the media and the public and is able to say and do things which won't get accepted as easily when it comes from other drivers.

#879 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:33

This might be an odd request, but:

Could one of the loyal, longtime Webber-supporters tell me some things about Webber´s 2005-season at Williams.
Looking at the results it appeared to be his weakest season (in relation to his teammates´ achievements) before Vettel became his teammate.
Was Heidfeld actually the better guy in the majority of the races or did other factors lead to the points-score (like 2007 against Coulthard, where a large part came down to Fuji...)?


2005 was meant to be Mark's big break, but the 2005 Williams was largely hampered by it's BMW engine, and a change to the rules

The 2005 regs stipulated that an engine had to last 2 full race weekends in succession. All of the other major teams re-developed their engines to handle this, however with the 2006 engines regs mandating a switch to the 2.4 V8, BMW elected (apparently for cost saving reasons) to continue with their 2004 engine largely unchanged which meant the Williams drivers were regularly hampered by having to be careful with their mileage during Practice. Mid-season, BMW and Williams announced their split and BMW essentially gave up developing the V10 knowing that it was going to be a giant paperweight that no one would be using in 2006. Naturally, this also hampered the car's speed.

The qually regs in 2005 also hampered Mark. This was the era of two stage qualifying. Also, if an engine failed within it's 2 event cycle, or you failed to finish, there was a penalty for qualifying at the next race. From memory, I think the penalty was a 10 place grid drop (?) for an engine problem, and an early qualifying slot (when the track wasnt rubbered in as much) if you didnt finish the previous race.

Someone else able to correct me if i'm wrong? That's how I remember 2005.

Mark was also a bit of an over-driving tool at times, but just like in 2003 & 2004 he was putting the car in high grid positions but then in the race desperately trying to just hang on. And he was taken out by Fisi in Malaysia, which gifted Heidfeld a third place as he was behind Mark.



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#880 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 13:39

^^
thx for that

#881 boldhakka

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 15:49

How were his starts back then?

#882 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 16:18

^ shit!

You expected different? I think of all the starts Mark's made in F1, you could count the ones where he's actually made up places prior to T1 on your fingers & toes and still have a few left over at the end. :lol:

#883 boldhakka

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 16:21

Oh wow, really? I did expect different! I thought it's got to do with some weird extreme setting Red Bull is using in their clutch or something. Guess not. So we can expect these type of starts to continue for the reminder of his career.

#884 HP

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 23:38

Webber was looking likely to win the WDC in the first half of the season, but it all fell apart from italy onwards. For people to come out now and say he is a "spent force" is just a great example of how F1 fans have incredibly short memories.

How can you say that?

Webber never did lead the WDC standings this year. However for a few races he was ahead of Vettel: Malaysia, China then Europe, Great Britain, Germany and Hungary. And it fell apart from Spa onwards. His greatest point advantage to Vettel was 16 points after Silverstone. And Silverstone is one of Webbers best tracks. IIRC only last year Vettel was ahead of Webber in Silverstone.

Silverstone however is an interesting track. Coulthard, Barrichello, Webber for example have raced well there, often ahead of their teammates. All of them great on their day, but none of them are WDC, becaused they lacked consistency. And only Webber has still a slight chance to achieve the WDC crown. Button is the exception in here, as he's good at Silverstone, and a WDC as well.

So far I've never seen Webber being able to string a complete season together. There were always some key races that were his undoing. For Webber becoming WDC, there needs to be another Brawn like team, or if you want to take this season. At RBR he needs to be way ahead in points by mid-season, just like Button at Brawn. IMO Webber would have had better chances when there were less races in one season, as there was enough time for racers like him to sustain the effort needed over a season.

Edited by HP, 07 November 2012 - 23:40.


#885 Brother Fox

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:49

He did say 'looking likely' - I dont think he meant favourite, but a good chance

#886 lbennie

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:07

exactly, he was alonso's closest challenger, and had just won 2 grand prix.

he was definitely looking likely at that stage.

Kind of like how people claim he was/never will be a championship challenger, when he was the bookies favourite going into the last race in 2010.

Short memories.


#887 LoudHoward

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:49

How were his starts back then?


So, so awful.

I think Toyota were messing with his settings, regardless of how far Trulli had qualified behind him, Mark would be settled in nicely behind that rear wing by T1.

As a Webber fan, I have since had a deep, deep hatred for Panasonic TVs.

#888 lbennie

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:04

haha

i'm convinced he has no 1st gear. Maybe he's so tall they had to remove it :p just launches that baby out of 2nd like a boss.



#889 krapmeister

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 10:20

haha

i'm convinced he has no 1st gear. Maybe he's so tall they had to remove it :p just launches that baby out of 2nd like a boss.



Looks to me like 1st gear usually works fine, but then he has no 2nd and has to go straight to third...

#890 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:20

Mark will never dominate a Tilke circuit.

#891 Ian G

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 23:07

^^
thx for that


Getting OT but Wicki has a generalised overview of 05,there is a long thread on this Forum(?) somewhere on the Mark/Heidi battle.

http://en.wikipedia....ula_One_results

#892 Obi Offiah

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 19:02

I was going to start a poll yesterday about the types of car failures Mark will experience this weekend, so far we have a water leak, what next..............................KERS?

#893 Skinnyguy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 19:13

I was going to start a poll yesterday about the types of car failures Mark will experience this weekend, so far we have a water leak, what next..............................KERS?


My bet is negligent use of the clutch paddles.

#894 Obi Offiah

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 19:23

My bet is negligent use of the clutch paddles.

:lol:

#895 Black Widow

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 23:48


Says it all, doesn't it!




#896 Disgrace

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 00:11

Says it all, doesn't it!


Webber wears his heart on sleeve. His personality traits are there for all to see and need no interview.

#897 repcobrabham

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 08:03

great article. captures him well ... except, again, i'm pretty sure he doesn't drink beer. i guess they can have one stereotype in there!

#898 krapmeister

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:47

great article. captures him well ... except, again, i'm pretty sure he doesn't drink beer. i guess they can have one stereotype in there!


W.T.F ?!?!

:eek:

#899 Brother Fox

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:31

He looks like he punishes himself fitness wise to keep his weight down, I wouldn't be surprised


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#900 Zava

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:07

doesn't he even own a pub?