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Mark Webber - Part II


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#951 Longtimefan

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 23:45

Another terrible race by Mark.

Seems he's stuck with being a #2 like Massa no, he's lost all credibility as a racer, sadly.


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#952 baddog

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:15

So how do the 'webber hates vettel' people explain him moving over later in the race to allow Seb to slip by easily?


Mark fought his team-mate all the way into turn one for a place, causing Vettel to get in the mix and indirectly causing him to be hit by Senna.. In a WDC decider with himself out of the title race that is highly unusual behaviour, and would have cost the team the WDC if Vettel had retired. Noone expects him to act like Massa did and try to mess up other peoples races but you could at least yield to your team-mate when you stand to gain nothing and he stands to lose everything.. show SOME hint of team spirit.

Later he let him by, clearly in response to a direct instruction to do so, doing it in the most obvious way possible. It was cheap. Most people quietly let someone by in a corner or entry, slowing on the straight is showboating.

Sorry, no respect for Mark over this one, he should be long past childish grandstanding.. if he wants the team behind him if he is in that position then he should be able to be a team player for once.

#953 karne

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:20

Mark fought his team-mate all the way into turn one for a place, causing Vettel to get in the mix and indirectly causing him to be hit by Senna..


So you wanted Mark to totally compromise his own race and put himself right down the midfield just so the precious golden boy could go by? No way, Mark had a right to cover his own backside into T1, he did. Vettel then got HIMSELF into a mess when he chopped straight across Senna and turned in on him later in the lap - destroying the race of a driver still fighting for his seat, but of course not DNF'ing himself.

Later he let him by, clearly in response to a direct instruction to do so, doing it in the most obvious way possible. It was cheap. Most people quietly let someone by in a corner or entry, slowing on the straight is showboating.


You mean, like Vettel was soooooo beautifully gracious and wonderful at Interlagos last year? :rolleyes:

#954 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:23

I'd fire Mark after that, no excuses. I could JUST handle the start but later in the race he goes three wide with Vettel for absolutely no reason. I'd be so furious. Given RBR's war chest i'd buy him out and call Peter Sauber to see if they can wrangle a deal with Hulkenberg.

He got a shit start, made a few errors and pushed his team mate way, way too hard given the circumstances and nature of the track.

#955 Black Widow

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:30

Gosh

All the arm chair experts, Webber haters, etc., etc, etc.

Just have two questions for you.

Question 1:
What happened to Webber in Abu Dhabi?

Question 2:
Who won the WDC if two McLarens and ANY Red Bull was on the podium?


You wonder why Webber fans stopped posting on this forum!




#956 Brother Fox

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:47

Just having a good re-watch of the start and imho Webber looks like he moves across to cover Hulkenberg, then straightens up to run alongside Vettel, Vettel having to yield to take Turn 1.

If Webber slowed unusually to let Seb through, wouldnt he expose himself to beign hit from behind and Vettel/Red Bull then lose their rear-gunner?
Probably all looks like it was harder than it had to be for Vettel in hindsight but I wouldnt think Turn 1 of Lap 1 is where you play swapsies for position.

I cant remmber him going 3 wide later TBH, ill trust you on that one and say that is stupid.


#957 pazza

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 01:50

To Webber's credit he nearly jumped off the track at that point .....

#958 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:41



It's here, what WAS HE DOING??????

#959 karne

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 02:52



It's here, what WAS HE DOING??????


He was RACING, you prat, until he almost jumped off the road to let the Golden Boy past which was what you wanted him to do, and then lost several places which was what he was trying to AVOID!

Fernando and Felipe went three wide at one point, I don't hear any of you prats squealing about that.

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#960 Brother Fox

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 03:39

Seems like when Kamui pulled left (right of screen) it left Webber closer or at least closing quicker to Vettel than he expected, so he darted right and ended up along side him - making it all look quite horrible.
Im not convinvced he was trying to pass him, but shouldnt have been right up his clacker anyway.

THis one is marginally clearer i think
http://youtu.be/IZ9QdklAT3s?t=2m59s


#961 Sardukar

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:16

Gosh

All the arm chair experts, Webber haters, etc., etc, etc.

Just have two questions for you.

Question 1:
What happened to Webber in Abu Dhabi?

Question 2:
Who won the WDC if two McLarens and ANY Red Bull was on the podium?


You wonder why Webber fans stopped posting on this forum!


yep ): Webber has always been the focus of much trolling on various forums over the years and its starting to take its toll. As a webber fan, all i want to do is discuss f1 but the constant bashing and negativity aimed towards him is just sad and lately i don't even bother to read this thread because i know what people are already gunna say. For every well thought out insightful post, there are 50 webber is crap posts.




#962 Callahan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 06:49

yep ): Webber has always been the focus of much trolling on various forums over the years and its starting to take its toll. As a webber fan, all i want to do is discuss f1 but the constant bashing and negativity aimed towards him is just sad and lately i don't even bother to read this thread because i know what people are already gunna say. For every well thought out insightful post, there are 50 webber is crap posts.

I don't know what all the fuss is about. The start was standard 1st corner, 1st lap, damp track stuff. As for the safety car restart, YAWN. Mark got a great run up the hill and bailed wide to give Seb room. Nothing to see, move along.

On a sadder note, no more F1 for months :(

Edited by Callahan, 26 November 2012 - 08:01.


#963 4wheels

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:19



It's here, what WAS HE DOING??????


What exactly did Mark do wrong? Apart from getting a great tow from the cars in front, getting pushed wide from Petal trying to cover him, then half losing it on the white line because of that, i thought it was great driving!!!
For someone with the amount of posts that you have written, i thought you would have a better understanding of motorsport

#964 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:40

Mark fought his team-mate all the way into turn one for a place, causing Vettel to get in the mix and indirectly causing him to be hit by Senna.. In a WDC decider with himself out of the title race that is highly unusual behaviour, and would have cost the team the WDC if Vettel had retired. Noone expects him to act like Massa did and try to mess up other peoples races but you could at least yield to your team-mate when you stand to gain nothing and he stands to lose everything.. show SOME hint of team spirit.

Later he let him by, clearly in response to a direct instruction to do so, doing it in the most obvious way possible. It was cheap. Most people quietly let someone by in a corner or entry, slowing on the straight is showboating.

Sorry, no respect for Mark over this one, he should be long past childish grandstanding.. if he wants the team behind him if he is in that position then he should be able to be a team player for once.

This :up:
He has behaved like this so many times. And when its the last race of the season with all to play for, it only becomes more ridiculous. It would almost seem that he has developed an inferior complex for Vettel that he somehow has to prove himself against. His pathetic move on the outside of Vettel after the SC restart was laughable. What was he thinking indeed.

You mean, like Vettel was soooooo beautifully gracious and wonderful at Interlagos last year? :rolleyes:

Completely and totally different scenario. No need to be that, since Vettels car was stricken. Everybody knew that from several team radio feeds.

#965 LoudHoward

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:45

So you wanted Mark to totally compromise his own race and put himself right down the midfield just so the precious golden boy could go by?


Mark only appeared to deliberately try and block one driver out on the run to T1, and that was Vettel. He let the two Ferraris sail by him with no problem, does it only "totally comprimise his own race" if Vettel gets past? Mark made no reaction at all when Hulkenberg jinked to his right as the gap Nico was initially going for incidentally closed as Mark moved over towards Seb.

#966 Sakae

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 07:53

I'd fire Mark after that, no excuses. I could JUST handle the start but later in the race he goes three wide with Vettel for absolutely no reason. I'd be so furious. Given RBR's war chest i'd buy him out and call Peter Sauber to see if they can wrangle a deal with Hulkenberg.

He got a shit start, made a few errors and pushed his team mate way, way too hard given the circumstances and nature of the track.

Unexpected post from you, but you have my respect for expressing it. Yesterday was not a day to have such conversations, and they probably will not do that, but they should. More I think about it, next year could be a disaster with him. Webber's attitute and track related performance is not in-line with a top team IMO.

#967 motorhead

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:03

He will not be on the list of drivers replacing Massa in the future anymore

#968 GeoffR

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:11

I don't know what all the fuss is about. The start was standard 1st corner, 1st lap, damp track stuff. As for the safety car restart, YAWN. Mark got a great run up the hill and bailed wide to give Seb room. Nothing to see, move along.

This. :up: They are RACING drivers after all!!

#969 4wheels

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:22

Mark only appeared to deliberately try and block one driver out on the run to T1, and that was Vettel. He let the two Ferraris sail by him with no problem, does it only "totally comprimise his own race" if Vettel gets past? Mark made no reaction at all when Hulkenberg jinked to his right as the gap Nico was initially going for incidentally closed as Mark moved over towards Seb.

And the problem with that is what exactly???? Vettel has chopped and blocked everyone, including his team mate, on numerous occasions. I didn't see anything wrong at all with what Mark did. According to some on here he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. You're the one who has been saying for the last few races how timid Mark has been off the start. Now your're complaining when he isn't. :down:

#970 Callahan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:43

And the problem with that is what exactly???? Vettel has chopped and blocked everyone, including his team mate, on numerous occasions. I didn't see anything wrong at all with what Mark did. According to some on here he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. You're the one who has been saying for the last few races how timid Mark has been off the start. Now your're complaining when he isn't. :down:

:up: Exactly. Why the hell should Seb be wrapped in cotton wool, this is Formula 1, not hand bags at 20 paces. Mark is no bullshit and that's the way it should be. I get the impression half you blokes expected him to block half the FUC%$# grid so Seb could pass him into turn one. Forget it. And at the end, Mark and Seb didn't touch once, Seb knew he had well and truly earned his 3rd title, and the punters witnessed a bloody great race with no prisoners taken.

If you think Mark gave Seb a hard time, google A.Senna and A.Prost and get a better perspective of how team mates can make it hard for one another.

#971 GreenMachine

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 08:50

I don't know what all the fuss is about. The start was standard 1st corner, 1st lap, damp track stuff. As for the safety car restart, YAWN. Mark got a great run up the hill and bailed wide to give Seb room. Nothing to see, move along.


:up:

On a sadder note, no more F1 for months :(


:cry:

#972 LoudHoward

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:33

And the problem with that is what exactly???? Vettel has chopped and blocked everyone, including his team mate, on numerous occasions. I didn't see anything wrong at all with what Mark did. According to some on here he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. You're the one who has been saying for the last few races how timid Mark has been off the start. Now your're complaining when he isn't. :down:


As I said in my initial post on the subject, the problem is that RBR are potentially going to be pissed off with him, I doubt that what he did went un-noticed (Seb mentioned it), and that Mark is no innocent victim in the divide that appears to be between him and the top dogs at RBR. I think he'd have put himself in a stronger position for a 2013 title tilt (which is the goal is it not?!) if he'd played it differently. Based on how it went down, it looked like Mark was trying to make a point, or try and put himself in a position to win the race by putting cars between himself and Seb. Okay, fine, he's racing and all but how does that look to RBR? It looked premeditated. Maybe it wasn't, that's all open to discussion, but are RBR having those thoughts?! How will that effect the relationship and future decisions if they think that?

Marks timidity or launch or whatever has nothing to do with it because I wasn't discussing his start performance/technique/aggression.

My criticism of Mark in this area is generally pointed at his launch performance and how early he brakes for T1, the former was poor and the latter was okay imo in this instance.

#973 boldhakka

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:36

Not sure if the squeeze during the start was warranted, but Webber didn't do anything wrong technically. He was alright everywhere else in the race. As long he's winning races and helping win the WCC, RBR should keep him.

#974 H2H

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:45

He will not be on the list of drivers replacing Massa in the future anymore


I defended Mark quite a bit in the past but his behaviour is either hard or all to easy to explain. It isn't certainly only about the start but also about the way he handled some phases in the race against Fernando and Seb and not only in this one but in the past ones. Even the Gazzetta dello Sport, usually eager to interpret for the Ferrari tifosi all in Fernados way made recently the point, and not only once, that he hardly helped his teammate (even after his WDC chances were 0) but even created him problems.

Mark is great on his day but he really seems to want to carry a chip on his shoulder, especially when it comes to do what pretty every other teammate in F1s long history has done in similar circumstances. People who talk in this context about Senna and Prost have obviously no clue as in this case it was all about a internal team fight about the WDC and not about a fight between two drivers of two different teams. :rolleyes:

In the end he did his team, his teammate and himself absolutely no favour.

Edited by H2H, 26 November 2012 - 09:49.


#975 motorhead

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:50

:up: Exactly. Why the hell should Seb be wrapped in cotton wool, this is Formula 1, not hand bags at 20 paces. Mark is no bullshit and that's the way it should be. I get the impression half you blokes expected him to block half the FUC%$# grid so Seb could pass him into turn one. Forget it. And at the end, Mark and Seb didn't touch once, Seb knew he had well and truly earned his 3rd title, and the punters witnessed a bloody great race with no prisoners taken.

If you think Mark gave Seb a hard time, google A.Senna and A.Prost and get a better perspective of how team mates can make it hard for one another.


Comparing RBR duo to Senna and Prost is far fetched, Webber is more like Barichello or Massa - fast but has a faster teammate with an exeption that Webber is trying everything but help his teammate

#976 engel

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:51

F1 is a team sport. Witness how Ferrari (Massa) made sure Alonso mugged Mark into T1 cause they needed to protect Alonso and keep him in contention for the championship. Massa pretty much parked the car in Mark's way to ensure Alonso got through both of them.Mark was not playing the team game at the start of the race. He focused completely on blocking Vettel, ended up getting Vettel stuck in no man's land and got mugged by Massa in the process. Is it a big deal? No. But it does suggest Mark has a chip on his shoulder, a monkey, that might damage his own standing within the team.

#977 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 09:58

As I said in my initial post on the subject, the problem is that RBR are potentially going to be pissed off with him, I doubt that what he did went un-noticed (Seb mentioned it), and that Mark is no innocent victim in the divide that appears to be between him and the top dogs at RBR. I think he'd have put himself in a stronger position for a 2013 title tilt (which is the goal is it not?!) if he'd played it differently. Based on how it went down, it looked like Mark was trying to make a point, or try and put himself in a position to win the race by putting cars between himself and Seb. Okay, fine, he's racing and all but how does that look to RBR? It looked premeditated. Maybe it wasn't, that's all open to discussion, but are RBR having those thoughts?! How will that effect the relationship and future decisions if they think that?

Marks timidity or launch or whatever has nothing to do with it because I wasn't discussing his start performance/technique/aggression.

My criticism of Mark in this area is generally pointed at his launch performance and how early he brakes for T1, the former was poor and the latter was okay imo in this instance.

Just got a thought. Could it be they are keeping Mark as to keep the Newey secrets contained? If he gets the boot and gets picked up by another team, he is sure to spill the beans on all the tech stuff he has seen. So they are just keeping him to the end of 2013 as there are big changes for 2014 anyway.

#978 4wheels

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:01

As I said in my initial post on the subject, the problem is that RBR are potentially going to be pissed off with him, I doubt that what he did went un-noticed (Seb mentioned it), and that Mark is no innocent victim in the divide that appears to be between him and the top dogs at RBR. I think he'd have put himself in a stronger position for a 2013 title tilt (which is the goal is it not?!) if he'd played it differently. Based on how it went down, it looked like Mark was trying to make a point, or try and put himself in a position to win the race by putting cars between himself and Seb. Okay, fine, he's racing and all but how does that look to RBR? It looked premeditated. Maybe it wasn't, that's all open to discussion, but are RBR having those thoughts?! How will that effect the relationship and future decisions if they think that?

Marks timidity or launch or whatever has nothing to do with it because I wasn't discussing his start performance/technique/aggression.

My criticism of Mark in this area is generally pointed at his launch performance and how early he brakes for T1, the former was poor and the latter was okay imo in this instance.


I guess you could look at it that way if you want to over analyze 200 metres of racing. I still don't see what he did that Vettel, or any other driver on the grid, hasn't done many times before. Perhaps you could email RBR to get them to start Mark from pitlane every race next year just to keep him away from the "chosen one".
So what that Seb "mentioned it". Im sure Marks mentioned plenty of things to RBR management.

Sorry, maybe im seeing things differently to you but this is not U10s karting

#979 boldhakka

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:04

Just got a thought. Could it be they are keeping Mark as to keep the Newey secrets contained? If he gets the boot and gets picked up by another team, he is sure to spill the beans on all the tech stuff he has seen. So they are just keeping him to the end of 2013 as there are big changes for 2014 anyway.


No.

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#980 H2H

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:10

Sorry, maybe im seeing things differently to you but this is not U10s karting


You are right, and Mark should acknowledge that a bit more. It is not just about him, but about a big team with many people investing very much and paying him to drive for the goals of the team. This is his job.

Edited by H2H, 26 November 2012 - 10:12.


#981 krea

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:17

Just got a thought. Could it be they are keeping Mark as to keep the Newey secrets contained? If he gets the boot and gets picked up by another team, he is sure to spill the beans on all the tech stuff he has seen. So they are just keeping him to the end of 2013 as there are big changes for 2014 anyway.


Do you think a driver has a ****ing clue how his car works?


#982 Ian G

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:17

I don't know what all the fuss is about. The start was standard 1st corner, 1st lap, damp track stuff. As for the safety car restart, YAWN. Mark got a great run up the hill and bailed wide to give Seb room. Nothing to see, move along.
....Yep...
On a sadder note, no more F1 for months :(


:(

Mark only appeared to deliberately try and block one driver out on the run to T1, and that was Vettel. He let the two Ferraris sail by him with no problem, does it only "totally comprimise his own race" if Vettel gets past? Mark made no reaction at all when Hulkenberg jinked to his right as the gap Nico was initially going for incidentally closed as Mark moved over towards Seb.


MPO is he didn't try to block Seb. at the start but made sure any car overtaking them had to go around the outside which Ferrari with their better start was always going to do,not a great race from Mark but not as bad as some posters are claiming,he was always going to let him thru if the WDC was at stake.Horner & Co. were rattled,poor strategy for both drivers,Seb. was very lucky to get out of it.

#983 goldenboy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:36

didn't get to see the race, am watching it tonight, but after reading these posts calling for his head I was a bit worried and had a look on youtube at the start. Can't really see what all the fuss is about to be honest. If he had rolled over and let vettel through he would have lost a hell of a lot of places.

#984 Gareth

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:37

Mark is no bullshit

I'm going to race a normal race = no bullshit.

I'm going to try harder defending against my teammate than I do against drivers from other teams, in the last race of the season when I'm out of the championship and my teammate is in it = bullshit.

#985 krapmeister

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:55

didn't get to see the race, am watching it tonight, but after reading these posts calling for his head I was a bit worried and had a look on youtube at the start. Can't really see what all the fuss is about to be honest. If he had rolled over and let vettel through he would have lost a hell of a lot of places.


TBH I would've liked to have seen him give Seb a bit more room but if he had and ended up getting squeezed between Seb and Massa/Hulkenberg on the outside he may very well have ended up tagging Seb anyway...



#986 Callahan

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 10:57

I'm going to race a normal race = no bullshit.

I'm going to try harder defending against my teammate than I do against drivers from other teams, in the last race of the season when I'm out of the championship and my teammate is in it = bullshit.

Gareth, your interpretation of Mark's performance is shared by others on this thread. Personally, I don't see it that way so I guess we'll leave it there. In the wash up, Seb had to fight his toughest battle to win it and in the end he prevailed with no help from anyone. A worthy champion.

#987 Gareth

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:15

Fair play Callahan :up:

I suspect that Mark's biggest problem in the perception of this is it coming at the start. It all looks so pre-planned. But perhaps we are all being too harsh on the guy.

#988 Desdirodeabike

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 11:18

Do you think a driver has a ****ing clue how his car works?

Easy. Im sure you pick up something or other. But it was just a thought. Scrapping that explanation leaves me still baffled by Marks behaviour.

#989 jumpeyspyder

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:09

Not a bad race from Mark in difficult conditions (but not his best either)

I thought that Mark was putting his car alongside Seb at the start as a defence , in case Ferrari had ordered Massa to take out vettel.



#990 heidegg33

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:22

Remember when peple used to argue Webber vs Vettel??? That must have been a long time ago - another poor year for Mark.

#991 choyothe

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 12:39

Mark fought his team-mate all the way into turn one for a place, causing Vettel to get in the mix and indirectly causing him to be hit by Senna.. In a WDC decider with himself out of the title race that is highly unusual behaviour, and would have cost the team the WDC if Vettel had retired. Noone expects him to act like Massa did and try to mess up other peoples races but you could at least yield to your team-mate when you stand to gain nothing and he stands to lose everything.. show SOME hint of team spirit.


Agree, Mark clearly had no excuse to push Vettel that much to the inside and subsequently make him lose places to Hulk and Alonso that he probably wouldn't otherwise have done.

Later he let him by, clearly in response to a direct instruction to do so, doing it in the most obvious way possible. It was cheap. Most people quietly let someone by in a corner or entry, slowing on the straight is showboating.


Disagree, I had no problem with that.

Sorry, no respect for Mark over this one, he should be long past childish grandstanding.. if he wants the team behind him if he is in that position then he should be able to be a team player for once.


Agree.

Mainly I'm annoyed at how Webber obviously is as far from a team player as possible and usually, indirectly or not, causes more harm than good for Vettel, yet the perception seems to always be that he's Massa v.2 in the Big Bad Red Bull.

Edited by choyothe, 26 November 2012 - 12:40.


#992 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:06

Excellent, Karne in a Vettel fans guise is here, this will go well I am sure.

Re. Webber, some of you are saying he should be allowed to race and "that's racing" or "he's a racing driver", i am sorry but the context of the situation appears to be beyond your comprehension. He had three quarters of the season to race and couldn't do what he had to do to be a factor so in a team sport his role is rear gunner for Seb for the last few races and particularly this one. he was on the edge all race, came off the road a few times and looked generally skittish, so to be that close to your team mate is crazy given the situation they were in.

Massa (Massa for ****'s sake!!!!) was brilliant all day. Fast, clever and always put his car just in the right sport to do what had to be done. I'd like nothing more than to see Mark give Seb a beating and take the WD crown but given the situation yesterday and a ruthless opponent, it wa snot Mark's role to "go racing".

#993 goldenboy

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:26

I think it is maybe a bit of an unfair assumption to say webber defends or races harder against vettel. Ithink he moved quite early to the inside at turn 1 but backing out just to allow vet through would have cost him more than just the one place to vettel. And regarding him upping his pace in abu dhabi when vettel was closing in on him - that is pretty unfair to say he was going to race vettel, he had been given the instruction to not fight and could very well have been waiting for vettel to make his move which he would not fight against.

Regarding the SC restart into turn 1, vettel had a terrible restart. Webber can't just coast behind him and let all and sundry run by him. And he didn't exactly give vettel too much of a problem. When the time ame to give the place to vettel properly he rightly did so. And some are even complaining about how he did that? Looked fine to me.

One thing though, I thought Red Bull should have pitted him in the last few laps to get vettel ahead position wise in case something happened to button and alonso won. An end result of 4th place isn't worth hanging onto in that respect and they gace him a good chance to win the race.

Does anyone know if he spun off by himself the first time? Brundle said he thought he was pushed off but I couldn't see it.

#994 Alfisti

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 14:30

he was nerfed off the first time, KK i think gave him a nudge.

#995 drunkenmaster

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Posted 26 November 2012 - 19:32

Mark only appeared to deliberately try and block one driver out on the run to T1, and that was Vettel. He let the two Ferraris sail by him with no problem, does it only "totally comprimise his own race" if Vettel gets past? Mark made no reaction at all when Hulkenberg jinked to his right as the gap Nico was initially going for incidentally closed as Mark moved over towards Seb.


And the problem with that is what exactly???? Vettel has chopped and blocked everyone, including his team mate, on numerous occasions. I didn't see anything wrong at all with what Mark did.

:up: Exactly. Why the hell should Seb be wrapped in cotton wool, this is Formula 1, not hand bags at 20 paces.


You're really asking what's the problem with blocking Vettel? Maybe that the WDC was at stake, and Webber had no chance of winning it himself anymore?

Webber's antics could have costed the team an important title and a lot of money. But obviously Webber doesn't care for the team, only about himself and his dislike of Vettel. :down:


#996 Sardukar

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:00

What blocking? some of you are seriously nuts. Webber moved into the middle lane so no one could try to dive up the inside of him or vettel. Once there he held is line (like all drivers are instructed to) and took the corner ahead of Vettel. Big ****ing deal who gives a shit seriously? Every other incident involving webber and vettel, he jumped out of the way even giving vettel a position in one instance. If you think webber was not driving for the team then i'm sorry, but you are just completely wrong and have absolutely no idea about F1 or motorsport. This thread is embarrasing.

#997 Raelene

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 04:23

can someone show me this squeeze at the start - i sure cna't see it - seems like he left him plenty of space and was trying to not let others pass

#998 Sakae

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:57

can someone show me this squeeze at the start - i sure cna't see it - seems like he left him plenty of space and was trying to not let others pass

Webber's choice of his drive-line put Vettel on brakes in wrong time/location, which ultimately resulted in loss of momentum, and that's how Seb lost initially track positions. By a critical eye Webber's tactics could be classified as indirect (might be direct) intereference with Vettel's race(line), whilst other options were available to him. I think objection raised in here is, that in last race in Brazil 2012 this was not very like team spirited guesture towards his team-mate, nor RBR as a whole, since they too want both titles.

Edited by Sakae, 27 November 2012 - 05:58.


#999 Raelene

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 05:58

Seb got a crap start - had Webber let him past - others would have also past

his team spirit showed later in the race - when he let Seb pass

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#1000 Sakae

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 06:04

We do not know how many places Vettel would have lost due to his troubled Start, but what we do know, that despite that, Webber didn't had to move on him and make it even more difficult, and instead he could turn his attention on other cars, which he didn't for some reason.