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Mark Webber - Part II


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#301 gm914

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 00:56

Maldonado just needs to qualify ahead of Vettel.

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#302 gowebber

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:45

Woohoo! Great win for Mark. TBH I was a bit worried midway through the race that Mark was not going to be able to catch Alonso and that Vettel may even catch Mark. Loved the last 10 laps or so. Was glued to Soft Paeur live timing app watching Mark cutting time out of Alonso bigtime near the end. Great pass too! Maldonado needs to look at how Mark and Fernando race fairly and not crash other guys out. The WDC is well and truly wide open now!

#303 fatd

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:53

Oh dear!

Sunday Press Conference


I was also surprised to read those questions.. very disrespectful especially the first one. It's not even halfway season and they talk about letting Seb pass.. while Mark is ahead of him in championship! Mark is really underrated by the media..

#304 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:24

I don't remember him making any mistakes in Monaco 2010.


He brushed the wall and missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing kubica to almost snatch it.

Nurburgring he made an idiot move and copped the drive through

Silverstone 2 years back he was beaten by his team mate in qualifying

Brazil last yr was a joke

Hungaroring got lucky

I could keep going. But this weekend, a great qualy all the way through, had Vettel's measure. Brilliant start, mistake free run, saw some air and left Vettel behind then caught and passed the leader. A drivers win.

#305 karne

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:33

edit: Kind of strange that the Winner's thread is so quiet. Someone go by Karnes house and make sure she is OK.


Been having trouble with my internet all week! :mad:

Rest assured I am bouncing off the walls like a rubber ball! And I only just got up at a quarter to twelve. I always sleep especially well after Marky wins :love: :love: :love:

Mark, Roger, and my 11th-ranked football team beating the premiership leaders...this weekend has been pretty much perfect. Only Casey spoiled the party :(

Oh dear!

Sunday Press Conference


Hm. I know what they're getting at, but they didn't do it very well. I would pay a lot to see how Vettel's face looked during that.

I was also surprised to read those questions.. very disrespectful especially the first one. It's not even halfway season and they talk about letting Seb pass.. while Mark is ahead of him in championship! Mark is really underrated by the media..


I think the point of those questions, they were aimed more at RBR as a whole than Mark, how RBR treats Mark, how Mark is the number 2 driver, etc. They weren't trying to insult Mark; I detect a measure of sarcasm, but they certainly didn't do it very well and Mark is not the person to direct those questions to!

#306 LoudHoward

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:52

He brushed the wall and missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing kubica to almost snatch it.


Which of his two laps that were good enough for pole there are you referring to? From what you've said you're talking about his first pole lap, his 2nd was fine (a bit wide at Rascasse but that almost seems to be his line through there on hot laps) and stonking.

People are forgetting Spain 2010 as well :smoking:

Regardless, this was a tops win, top 3 for me! :D

#307 andrewr

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 02:53

He brushed the wall and missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing kubica to almost snatch it.

Ah yes. I completely forgot about that. Thanks.

#308 sanjiro

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:02

:up: great drive Mark. :clap:

#309 HoldenRT

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:06

I seemed the only one mentioning this in live topic during the race.. but Mark was too conservative in first two stints in terms of tyre wear and not pushing hard enough in the first half of the stints, he was too worried about losing time at the end, but his times at the end of stints were fine (ie great). Via live timing.

It was only after the race when he talked about it on Skysports, about needing to find the balance and trying to be quick at the end of the stints, that I was relieved that I was not crazy for being the only one to notice it.. :)

The final stint, the one where he seemed super quick was the only one where he pushed hard from the opening laps.

Said a major front wing change helped after the first stop, so maybe some balance issues in that stint (tyres didn't seem too bad at the end of the stint though) but in the middle stint, Vettel seemed to push the perfect amount on the tyres. He pushed much harder than Webber in the first half of the stint.. even half way through the stint Vettel was alot quicker and Webber was the one on fresher tyres. Vettel didn't have more raw pace, simply budgeted the life of his tyre better. And then pitted at the perfect time, right as the lap times started dropping off (and Webber pulling away). Which forced Webber to pit to cover him off, which means Webber never got to get his advantage out of his tyre.

However in the final stint it was flat out with no worry of tyre wear (my fave type of F1) and we saw how that went.

#310 gowebber

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:15

Reliving the magic pass! :)




#311 mymemoryfails

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:27

He brushed the wall and missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing kubica to almost snatch it.

Nurburgring he made an idiot move and copped the drive through

Silverstone 2 years back he was beaten by his team mate in qualifying

Brazil last yr was a joke

Hungaroring got lucky

I could keep going. But this weekend, a great qualy all the way through, had Vettel's measure. Brilliant start, mistake free run, saw some air and left Vettel behind then caught and passed the leader. A drivers win.



Wow. I think you're beng way too hard a marker Alfisti.
It's only my limited opinion, but as I recall


Most journo's and commentators (what do they know?) who observed Kubica's qualy at Monaco raved about it. Doubtless the "transcendent" quali performance of his career. Yet Webber outqualified him by 3 tenths (and Vettel by 4 tenths). Also I have seen quite a few pole laps where apexes are missed, and even races won after a brush of the wall. I suppose I'm claiming "humanly perfect" for Webber in Monaco 2010. Sure he had track position, but 4 times in the race he had his lead destroyed by safety cars.

At Nurburgring 2009 he went from 130 odd gps without a win "unlucky perpetual loser" to a grandprix winner. Sure his move wasnt great, but he drove fantastically to overcome his drive through. We've seen startline chops from Vettel of similar magnitude I would say, and Alonso last night was "forceful" off the line. The only difference was Barrichelo was alongside, whereas the others were chops from in front.

Silverstone 2010, beaten in quali -surely unusual wing circumstances. But I think Webber's race drive was just about his best :)

Hungary - he was lucky, he did a great long stint to that contributed greatly to his win

But I do agree with your assessment that Silverstone 2012 was a great drivers win. his engineer/team got strategy right, although I was doubtful at times. A great weekend, but I feel it's rare to have a "perfect" weekend. think I'm right in saying Vettel crashed a car big on Friday but won on Sunday (Turkey?). I think races should be weighted much higher than we see quali/practice.

mymemoryfails


#312 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:12

Chsst, hey buddy, Mark did an amazing job and actually won today, no time for ridiculous excuses and conspiracies.

He always goes well here though.

Abu Dhabi and other fiddly tracks will be a tougher test, better results will be needed at the less favored tracks to put together a WDC.

Winning at Monaco and Silverstone has not done anything to shake the perception of Webber only going well at a handful of tracks.

#313 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:19

It is incontestible that Seb is the one that has favour in the team. He is a double WDC, a product of the feeder program, and has a longer term future with RBR. They have to favour him - that is just reality, not conspiracy. Add to that the possibility of Mark going to another team ...

It is also true that championships are usually spread around in multiple championship winning teams...

e.g.,

1984 Lauda Mclaren
1985 Prost McLaren
1986 Prost McLaren
1988 Senna McLaren
1989 Prost McLaren

1992 Mansell Williams
1993 Prost Williams
1996 Hill Williams
1997 Villenueve Williams

...

2010 Vettel Red Bull
2011 Vettel Red Bull
2012 Webber Red Bull

Does have a certain ring to it.

#314 wonk123

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:29

I seemed the only one mentioning this in live topic during the race.. but Mark was too conservative in first two stints in terms of tyre wear and not pushing hard enough in the first half of the stints, he was too worried about losing time at the end, but his times at the end of stints were fine (ie great). Via live timing.

It was only after the race when he talked about it on Skysports, about needing to find the balance and trying to be quick at the end of the stints, that I was relieved that I was not crazy for being the only one to notice it.. :)

The final stint, the one where he seemed super quick was the only one where he pushed hard from the opening laps.

Said a major front wing change helped after the first stop, so maybe some balance issues in that stint (tyres didn't seem too bad at the end of the stint though) but in the middle stint, Vettel seemed to push the perfect amount on the tyres. He pushed much harder than Webber in the first half of the stint.. even half way through the stint Vettel was alot quicker and Webber was the one on fresher tyres. Vettel didn't have more raw pace, simply budgeted the life of his tyre better. And then pitted at the perfect time, right as the lap times started dropping off (and Webber pulling away). Which forced Webber to pit to cover him off, which means Webber never got to get his advantage out of his tyre.

However in the final stint it was flat out with no worry of tyre wear (my fave type of F1) and we saw how that went.


In hindsight you are correct about the tyres. During the race I was more concerned with him taking too much out of them early in the stint. He would set purple sectors on the new tyres then settle into a fast pace. A couple of times I was worried that seb would catch him, but he always responded and extended the gap. The commentators on 10 missed the fact that he was 4.4 seconds ahead of seb when they had their second pitstop, for some reason they thought Seb was only 2.2 behind.

Great drive, and a Great move on Fernando. When he made that stick I think I may have woken my neighbours :blush:

#315 Black Widow

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:39

Nice bit of fun between Webber and Alonso in the Press Conference........

Webber

I’m not looking at who is third, fourth, fifth. I am looking at the little guy next to me and he’s going well as well, so we need to keep pushing hard.


Alonso

Q: (Mark Fogarty – Auto Action ) Fernando, if there is a change in your team next year, would you like to have Mark as your teammate?
FA: I don’t know. I think it’s just imaginary pictures. I need to put something on my shoes to be a little bit taller. That would be the only thing if I changed teammates.




#316 Ian G

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:47

It was only after the race when he talked about it on Skysports, about needing to find the balance and trying to be quick at the end of the stints, that I was relieved that I was not crazy for being the only one to notice it.. :)

However in the final stint it was flat out with no worry of tyre wear (my fave type of F1) and we saw how that went.


Yeah,i thought a good first stint on the "yellow's",had a soft run for several laps when the Merc. was slowing and backing everyone up,also he had to find time time during the race to conserve fuel so he could have a flat out final surge to the line.

Yay... :wave:

#317 GreenMachine

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:59

It is also true that championships are usually spread around in multiple championship winning teams...

e.g.,

1984 Lauda Mclaren
1985 Prost McLaren
1986 Prost McLaren
1988 Senna McLaren
1989 Prost McLaren

1992 Mansell Williams
1993 Prost Williams
1996 Hill Williams
1997 Villenueve Williams

I understand your point. If we weren't talking about RBR, and Helmut Marko, I would concede. But we are, and that is the difference ...

2010 Vettel Red Bull
2011 Vettel Red Bull
2012 Webber Red Bull

Does have a certain ring to it.


It has a very pleasant ring to it!! But don't put your house on it  ;) I would love to see it, but I think the odds are against it - I would say that Alonso is the most likely, followed by Seb ( ): ), maybe Hammy and Mark next ...
.

#318 Ian G

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:16

It has a very pleasant ring to it!! But don't put your house on it ;) I would love to see it, but I think the odds are against it - I would say that Alonso is the most likely, followed by Seb ( ): ), maybe Hammy and Mark next ...
.


MPO is Seb. or Mark,,possibly Alonso,Hamilton is a longshot i feel,i know things can change in F-1 in a blink but at this stage of the season Mclaren seem to be going backwards,real Duck on the pond stuff as they try to get Button firing and stop Hamilton whinging.

#319 Callahan

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 05:47

Mark has won at his 2 favourite tracks, and if he is going to win the WDC, then he at least has got maximum points from those. He was in the zone and is a joy to watch when this happens. Determination and a never give up attitude are always factored in so this year could be the one. :)

Edited by Callahan, 09 July 2012 - 06:39.


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#320 skinnylizard

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:14

good for Mark. However it is quite early to start talking championship, we have a long long way to go yet. I hope they do the decent thing and support him regardless of how his contract plays out. However if he is to leave, it would be best to sign his contract this week.

#321 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:55

Mark Webber what a win. Great to see. One of his best wins. Nice overtake to win too which he has never really pulled off before. Not a dominant car either. Driver made the difference. Great battle with F1's best driver Alonso for the win.

#322 Andromeda

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:01

Mark Webber what a win. Great to see. One of his best wins. Nice overtake to win too which he has never really pulled off before. Not a dominant car either. Driver made the difference. Great battle with F1's best driver Alonso for the win.


Agreed

If he keeps this level of performance up he will almost certainly become the favourite to take the WDC ahead of Alonso and Vettel but its a shame Webbers performance often fluctuates so its really hard to say if he will maintain momentum ahead of Vettel

Edited by Andromeda, 09 July 2012 - 08:02.


#323 slideways

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:22

We've seen startline chops from Vettel of similar magnitude I would say, and Alonso last night was "forceful" off the line. The only difference was Barrichelo was alongside, whereas the others were chops from in front.
mymemoryfails


The main difference you are missing is Mark smashed into the other car making contact. I like Mark but that was one of the dirtiest moves we've seen in a long time and between the leading cars.

I kind of agree with Alfisiti to an extent though. Felt a bit like Mark's first 'legit beat them all win' to me, with Seb not having any issues and needing to overtake for the win. Ok Maybe Spain/Monaco '10 or Monaco '12 counts, but Vettel had no excuses this time around and the races at Monaco were over after T1.

#324 Andromeda

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:33

The main difference you are missing is Mark smashed into the other car making contact. I like Mark but that was one of the dirtiest moves we've seen in a long time and between the leading cars.

I kind of agree with Alfisiti to an extent though. Felt a bit like Mark's first 'legit beat them all win' to me, with Seb not having any issues and needing to overtake for the win. Ok Maybe Spain/Monaco '10 or Monaco '12 counts, but Vettel had no excuses this time around and the races at Monaco were over after T1.



Yeah

Vettels start wasn't that good and thats pretty much what destroyed his chance at a race victory because he was stuck behind Massa and Schumacher for awhile. The dominance Vettel showed in Valencia looked to be a one time fluke or maybe it was just a track Vettel was best at.

Edited by Andromeda, 09 July 2012 - 08:34.


#325 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:45

To win the Championship, Mark needs to start getting at least podiums on the tracks he DOESNT traditionally perform at. Simple as that.

And he'll need to win at least another 2 races, probably Spa & Interlagos are his best shots.

#326 smoothcrim

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:48

With all the talk of him going to Ferrari i wonder if Mclaren would be an option for him also?He gets to stay in Britain that way and gets equal number 1 status.

Would they want him?

#327 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:52

With all the talk of him going to Ferrari i wonder if Mclaren would be an option for him also?He gets to stay in Britain that way and gets equal number 1 status.

Would they want him?


At this point he is peforming better than both of the Mclaren pilots.

#328 LoudHoward

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:02

I like Mark but that was one of the dirtiest moves we've seen in a long time and between the leading cars.


Exchange dirty with clumsy and you might sell me.


#329 karne

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:21

The main difference you are missing is Mark smashed into the other car making contact. I like Mark but that was one of the dirtiest moves we've seen in a long time and between the leading cars.

I kind of agree with Alfisiti to an extent though. Felt a bit like Mark's first 'legit beat them all win' to me, with Seb not having any issues and needing to overtake for the win. Ok Maybe Spain/Monaco '10 or Monaco '12 counts, but Vettel had no excuses this time around and the races at Monaco were over after T1.


What the hell are you smoking?!

Mark could not see Rubens off the startline. Mark and Rubens also swerved away from each other very sharply after the minor contact which made it look worse. If you watch the onboard, Mark is not doing anything but trying to make it to the first corner. If you knew absolutely anything about Mark you would know he would not do anything like that on purpose.

Nurburgring 2009 - Great drive, great recovery from a D/T which EVEN THE COMMENTATORS said was harsh. Legit win.

Brazil 2009 - Super drive, good hunt and chase after keeping it together in a wet qualifying. Legit.

Barcelona 2010 - Great jump from pole, good win. Legit, how can it not be?

Monaco 2010 - Absolutely flawless, perfect, stunning. Would have won the race by a minute at least without those safety cars. How can that not be a legit win?

Silverstone 2010 - Not his greatest win, but completely satisfying after being screwed over by the team the day before and having his teammate chop him off the line. Totally legit.

Hungary 2010 - Put in the fast laps required after Vettel made a stupid mistake. Stunning series of quali laps to take out the race. Again, legit.

Brazil 2011 - Flawless drive, very fast and accurate. Spoiled somewhat by Vettel's ungracious maneuvre. Still a legitimate win in that he drove superbly well.

Monaco 2012 - What more do I say? Fantastic drive, the most perfect start, fought off all challengers and kept his cool in a stressful situation. Perfectly legit and wonderful from the current Monaco Master.

Silverstone 2012 - Great jump off the line, good strategy. Fabulous chase down of Alonso and pass, he left him plenty of room, wonderful respect and fight shown on both of them. Legit.


So, may I ask, why the f*ck are you trying to tell me this was Mark's first "legitimate" win?

As my Dad and I were discussing last night, he may "only" have nine race wins, but there is more awesome in those nine wins than in the totals of some drivers with more!

#330 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:24

I wish he had won turkey in 2010 too. That was a great defensive drive against Hamilton until the crash. Was going to win against a much faster Mclaren.

#331 sofarapartguy

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 10:36

As my Dad and I were discussing last night, he may "only" have nine race wins, but there is more awesome in those nine wins than in the totals of some drivers with more!


Dunno why but Mark's wins were never boring.

#332 slideways

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:50

What the hell are you smoking?!
why the f*ck are you trying to tell me

You seem like a lovely person.

It probably was accidental, but it was still a dirty move just like his chop on Kimi IMO.

Not sure about your tirade but like I said he went out there and took his win, no Vettel excuses, no dominant machinery, and it was against an on form Alonso.

Btw I'm very very happy for us to have different views on F1. :wave:

#333 GhostR

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:13

Definitely not Mark's "first legitimate win" (most of his others have to be considered legit as well, and a couple of them sublime). But I wouldn't subscribe to the idea that all Mark's wins were perfect driver wins either. Nurburgring and the drive-through - fantastic drive, except for the contact he caused off the start. Hungary - I reckon Vettel would have won if not for the brain fade. And Brazil last year was a bit of a gift really.

***

Looking ahead through the rest of the season: So far Mark's kept Vettel very honest. The Qually spanking from last year looks to be consigned to history. Vettel still clearly capable of creating something special in Q3, but Mark's got more points from the VS thread for qually so far and I think that's a true assessment. Hopefully that trend continues through the rest of the season, as being able to line up on the grid ahead of Vettel will be very important.

Honestly, I think both Seb and Mark need to be very wary of Alonso. That Ferrari continues to evolve strongly. And Massa's abysmal start to the season pretty much guarantees that Ferrari will have already told Massa to forget it as far as taking points away from Alonso. Assuming the form guide continues as it has over the last 2-3 races, it'll be a 3 way fight between ALO, WEB, VET ... and Alonso already holds a couple of aces thanks to Massa being out of it. Hamilton is an outside chance of coming back into the fight if McLaren can figure out where they've gone wrong and get themselves back on the pace.

Everyone else lacks consistency. Lotus will continue being a nuisance throughout the season I think, but I don't see either of their drivers being able to match the RBR boys and Alonso for consistency at the pointy end.

For me, the craziness of the start of the season is starting to smooth out now. RBR and Ferrari have figured out their cars and put a (small) gap on the field. Behind them, Lotus and McLaren are squabbling for 3rd/4th depending on circuit, Mercedes are a threat to anyone if they hit their sweet spot but lack consistency, and then back from there Sauber/Williams/Force India are all able to spoil the party for the pack leaders on any given weekend but just aren't long term threats. From here on out the only real changes I'd expect to see would be McLaren getting sorted and joining RBR + Alonso at the front - all depends on how quick they can do that if they'll actually remain in the WDC race as a serious threat. And I'd still be backing Lotus to get a weekend right and grab at least one win. But they need to do that sooner rather than later, as I reckon RBR and Ferrari might start pulling away as the season goes on.

Edited by GhostR, 09 July 2012 - 12:30.


#334 karne

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:23

You seem like a lovely person.

It probably was accidental, but it was still a dirty move just like his chop on Kimi IMO.

Not sure about your tirade but like I said he went out there and took his win, no Vettel excuses, no dominant machinery, and it was against an on form Alonso.

Btw I'm very very happy for us to have different views on F1. :wave:


Of course my hackles will get up when someone is saying stupid things about Mark. Especially when they're stupid UNTRUE things.

How can an accidental move be dirty? And the chop on Kimi? Do you mean the one where Raikkonen stupidly KERS-d into the back of Mark as Mark moved across to take the racing line?

You are making excuses to find ways to belittle Mark's wins and take away from them. Every single one of Mark's wins has been legitimate. I do not understand why you are trying to make out like they're not.


#335 race addicted

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:33

Another fantastic GP-weekend from Webber, and a very high-ranking win. Great to see him actually being able to reel Alonso in. Didn't really see his move on Alonso, 'cause I was only looking at a big-screen through binoculars, and my hands were shaking....

#336 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:48

Karne you really gotta calm down and not look through Webber tainted glasses for once. No one has said his wins were not legit, a lot of wins happen where the winner was fortunate or got away with errors. Not o mention I specifically said 'weekend' not race.

Let's do the shopping list shall we .....

Ring 09: Terrible start as per usual, leads to either a numpty move on Rubens or failing to see a driver he should have. Wins the race because Rubens holds up the entire field before Mark serves his penalty.

Brazil 09: Got a little lucky with qualifying before the monsoon though maybe we call that a good guess. Poor start but got away with it, nearly pushed Kimi (or was it Massa?) into the wall on lap one defending after a poor start.

Monaco 10: Brushed the wall and also missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing Kubica to almost steal it. As someone else said, at Monaco the race is over at T1.

Barcelona 10: Cannot remember it well but i suspect this was up there with Silverstone 2012.

Hungring 10: Either a mistake by Vettel or the team. Outqualified by Vettel.

Silverstone 10: Outqualified by Vettel, nearly got involved in a first corner bump with team mate though i couldn't blame him TBH.

Brazil 11: Less aid about this the better. At best he won 'cos his team mate's car died ... or partially died ... just enough anyway.

Monaco 12: Out qualified by an old man and never looked capable of gapping the field at all.

Now Ring 09, Silverstone 10 and Monaco 10 were sweeter wins than yesterday but he drove a great weekend, at the very least on par with Barcelona 2010 and Brazil 09. It wa sa weekend that looked like a top drivers weekend, something an Alonso or a Schumacher does/did.



#337 karne

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:49

Another fantastic GP-weekend from Webber, and a very high-ranking win. Great to see him actually being able to reel Alonso in. Didn't really see his move on Alonso, 'cause I was only looking at a big-screen through binoculars, and my hands were shaking....


Oh, you didn't see it? Quick, it's on Youtube, and it's fabulous. Down the outside, leaving enough room for Fernando, then holding on as Fernando came back at him through the following corners. Just gorgeous. So much respect on display!

#338 schubacca

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:52

I am hoping that MW wins the WDC this year.

I am appreciating his consistency this season.



#339 schubacca

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:56

Monaco 12: Out qualified by an old man and never looked capable of gapping the field at all.


LOL, I think that the impact changes somewhat once to change the "old man" to Michael Schumacher ;)

Next up we will be saying that Murray lost Wimbledon to an "old man"

:)

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#340 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:58

LOL, I think that the impact changes somewhat once to change the "old man" to Michael Schumacher ;)

Next up we will be saying that Murray lost Wimbledon to an "old man"

:)


Agreed :) But there's that asterix there isn't there. No asterix this weekend.

#341 karne

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:01

Karne you really gotta calm down and not look through Webber tainted glasses for once. No one has said his wins were not legit, a lot of wins happen where the winner was fortunate or got away with errors. Not o mention I specifically said 'weekend' not race.


Oh?

Felt a bit like Mark's first 'legit beat them all win' to me


Let's do the shopping list shall we .....

Ring 09: Terrible start as per usual, leads to either a numpty move on Rubens or failing to see a driver he should have. Wins the race because Rubens holds up the entire field before Mark serves his penalty.


Yes, so? Mark drove extremely well, even if Rubens was holding up the field.

Brazil 09: Got a little lucky with qualifying before the monsoon though maybe we call that a good guess. Poor start but got away with it, nearly pushed Kimi (or was it Massa?) into the wall on lap one defending after a poor start.


He didn't "get lucky" with quali, he drove to the conditions, something other drivers failed to do. He didn't "nearly push" anyone into any walls. He had a slight contact with Raikkonen when he moved across into T3 (I think) when Raikkonen was using his KERS. Error of judgement on both parts.

Monaco 10: Brushed the wall and also missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing Kubica to almost steal it. As someone else said, at Monaco the race is over at T1.


What, so apparently that ruins his driving completely, that he brushed the armco and missed an apex on a lap HE GOT POLE with?! That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

Barcelona 10: Cannot remember it well but i suspect this was up there with Silverstone 2012.


Allow me to refresh you: Mark gets pole, Mark jumps well, Mark drives accurately and quickly and off into the sunset, to be followed a week later by a repeat performance at Monaco.

Hungring 10: Either a mistake by Vettel or the team. Outqualified by Vettel.


Vettel screws up, Mark proceeds to then put in a brilliant series of fast qualifying-style laps that won him the race. Vettel screwed up. Are you trying to say that Mark should not be allowed to win because Vettel is an idiot?

Silverstone 10: Outqualified by Vettel, nearly got involved in a first corner bump with team mate though i couldn't blame him TBH.


Outqualified by his teammate WHO HAD MARK'S NEW FRONT WING when Mark had the old one? Oh yeah, that totally counts. :rolleyes: Nearly involved in first corner bump with Vettel who had chopped across, trying to push Mark off the track? Oh, puh-lease...

Brazil 11: Less aid about this the better. At best he won 'cos his team mate's car died ... or partially died ... just enough anyway.


Reliability is part of motorsport. Cry me a freaking river. Cars dying or partially dying is never news to a Webber fan.

Monaco 12: Out qualified by an old man and never looked capable of gapping the field at all.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You are so determined not to admit that Mark is a good driver, aren't you? So determined to try and "prove" that none of his wins were worthy! He was outqualified by a SEVEN TIME WORLD CHAMPION - and by a small margin, too. Guess what? EVERYONE ELSE WAS OUTQUALIFIED BY SCHUMI TOO. Including your precious Vettel who was too scared to go do a qualifying lap!

Never looked capable of gapping the field? Guess what. He tried that two years before in Monaco only to have the Safety Car destroy his gap every time. It doesn't matter by how much you win as long as you win. Mark's official winning margin at Monaco 2012 was actually BIGGER than his official margin at Monaco 2010!


#342 krapmeister

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:04

...


I see school holidays are well underway then...

#343 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:05

Including your precious Vettel


Ummmmm, Okayyyyyyyyy. You are clearly delusional. have you seen any of my other, I dunno, eight ****ing thousand posts in RC? Clearly not given you've said that.

You're the worst type of fan, the absolute worst.

#344 schubacca

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:07

Agreed :) But there's that asterix there isn't there. No asterix this weekend.


The forfeiture of pole by MS did not lessen the pure speed that he exhibited.

and

MW won the British GP with an excellent combination of measured aggression and clinical passing.

Kudos to MW for a classy win.

#345 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:10

I think you are wrong on the Monaco 10 pole lap comments. I remember him talking about it in the press conference. His first lap was the one where he brushed the armco. His next lap was the pole lap and i remember him saying it was pretty much perfect.

It was one of his best weekends. Dominant.

His best wins i think were

Monaco 10
Nurburgring 09 - No one could live with him on pace. There were times where he was 1 sec faster than Seb. A bit of luck involved though with Kova holding alot of people up.
Monaco 12 - Not the best car, but held it together.
Silverstone 12 - Overtake on Alonso for the win.

#346 flyer121

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:11

Although I dont agree with most of Karne's posts and she may benefit from calming down ... I feel that we may be applying a bit too harsh a criteria when judging Webber wins.

I guess about 90% wins have an asterix attached in some way .. Perfect weekends are very few and far between... probably as rare as Grand Chelems !

Edited by flyer121, 09 July 2012 - 14:51.


#347 race addicted

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:12

I agree with Karne a 100% when it comes to Monaco '12 qualifying. How is it a dent to Webber's win that he got out qualified by Schumacher?! As Karne says, so was everyone else!

About Webber's Monaco wins; both have been mightily impressive. It isn't often you see a driver showing such dominance as he did after each SC, in Monaco '10.

Generally, I think all his wins have been high class, but of course one, two or three will stand out as better. They can't all be from perfect GP-weekends!

Edited by race addicted, 09 July 2012 - 13:12.


#348 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:19

I think you are wrong on the Monaco 10 pole lap comments. I remember him talking about it in the press conference. His first lap was the one where he brushed the armco. His next lap was the pole lap and i remember him saying it was pretty much perfect.


Youtube it, he misses the apex at Rascasse i think it is, between the swimming pool and the start/finish anyway.

#349 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:20

I agree with Karne a 100% when it comes to Monaco '12 qualifying. How is it a dent to Webber's win that he got out qualified by Schumacher?! As Karne says, so was everyone else!


Because it's all about qualifying there, get to T1 first and you're 99% of the way there so he'd have likely not won if Michael hadn't been a goose the race before.

#350 andrewr

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:52

Because it's all about qualifying there, get to T1 first and you're 99% of the way there so he'd have likely not won if Michael hadn't been a goose the race before.

Lots of IFs in any GP weekend, but in the end he beat everyone that he needed to beat in qualifying, and that was good enough. And let's not take away from Schumacher's great qualifying lap, old man or not.