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Mark Webber - Part II


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#351 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:53

Lots of IFs in any GP weekend, but in the end he beat everyone that he needed to beat in qualifying, and that was good enough. And let's not take away from Schumacher's great qualifying lap, old man or not.


And i am saying there were no IF's yesterday, that's my entire point.

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#352 Raelene

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:54

Alfisti obviously doesn't like MW to go through his list of wins and pretty much denegrate them all. Comments re Monaco 2010 are some of the stupidest comments I've read on thiss forum when one tries to put a driver down. Wonder if he judges all drivers as harshly?mm

#353 andrewr

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 13:56

And i am saying there were no IF's yesterday, that's my entire point.

Of course there were. For example, if Alonso had started on soft tyres. It's stupid to put any IF's into any event that has already transpired.

EDIT: because I don't know the difference between soft and hard tyres LOL

Edited by andrewr, 09 July 2012 - 14:02.


#354 smoothcrim

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:03

Some people just arent in touch with reality.

I guess i could say that IF Webber didnt crash in Korea he would be 2010 WDC,doesnt make me feel any better though probably worse actually.How about u Alfisti?

Edited by smoothcrim, 09 July 2012 - 14:09.


#355 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:08

Dunno why so many of you are ignoring Silverstone 2010... :confused:

The world was against Webber that weekend, and just said 'f*ck it' and kicked everyone's arses, including his teammate's.

________________


Something else I found extraordinary, from Michele Merlino's column

By denying Fernando Alonso his first back-to-back wins of the year, with a pass in the closing stages, Webber also enjoyed his 50th straight race without a mechanical failure. That's the third best in the sport's history. If he finishes at Hockenheim he can make that the second best, by surpassing Lewis Hamilton (from his Formula 1 debut to the 2009 Brazilian GP).

Can anyone believe THAT after the rotten luck he had from 2004 - 2008?

#356 gm914

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:14

Can anyone believe THAT after the rotten luck he had from 2004 - 2008?

No. That is extraordinary. :eek:
Although we are talking mechanical failure resulting in a DNF.
He's still had plenty of KERS failures and clutch/starting problems in that time span. Thankfully he was still able to get to the checkered flag.

Edited by gm914, 09 July 2012 - 14:15.


#357 race addicted

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:19

Alfisti are one of the best posters on the board, in that he sees the weaker side in his favorite driver, so the criticism he's just gotten, is way off!

What I don't agree with in this instance though, is that he, Webber, sort of has to have perfect GP-weekends before he deserves applause.



#358 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:36

What I don't agree with in this instance though, is that he, Webber, sort of has to have perfect GP-weekends before he deserves applause.


I never said that. I said this past win is his best Weekend in a competitive car (he had plenty in the Jag and Williams that were crap boxes), a drivers weekend, better than his other wins. I'll take Monaco 2010 or Hungaroring any day of the week, i just know an asterix when i see one.

I said the same re. Alonso in 2010, everyone going on how brilliant he was. Well hang on, he binned the car like 5 times in the first half of the year and they were all costly mistakes.

#359 GhostR

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:47

Alfisti are one of the best posters on the board, in that he sees the weaker side in his favorite driver, so the criticism he's just gotten, is way off!

Agree with this.

The weekend just past was amongst Mark's best. And as an all-encompassing weekend, I think is definitely a candidate for best race-winning weekend. Perfectly valid for Alfisti to, in his opinion, declare it so.

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#360 race addicted

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:48

Yep, poor wording on my side, Alfisti. Still, I don't see the need for an asterix or a "but" for many of the wins you mentioned.
As I said, I think they were all up class.

Edited by race addicted, 09 July 2012 - 14:49.


#361 Alfisti

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:59

The next race will be really important, he has been very consistent this year, not really a bad race yet so if he can keep rolling and finish top 4 regularly he's gonna be a serious PITA for RBR to manage if Alonso is there.

The win yesterday was super important when u think about it, the pass was a 14 point delta, that's huge.

#362 slideways

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 14:59

Dunno why so many of you are ignoring Silverstone 2010... :confused:

The world was against Webber that weekend, and just said 'f*ck it' and kicked everyone's arses, including his teammate's.

Hamilton hit Vettel at T1 and gave him a puncture. That was a feel good victory though for sure.

#363 FPV GTHO

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 15:05

Semi interesting stat here. As of now Webber has won twice at Interlagos, Monaco and Silverstone.

He would remain a strong bet for the future at Barcelona and Nurburgring as well.

Edited by FPV GTHO, 09 July 2012 - 15:06.


#364 sanjiro

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:50

WOW...



and you people think I am bad :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

This is was FAR from MWs first "legit" win.

However it was one of his best because as a race watcher (as as we heard form MW himself after the race) it just didn't look like Mark was going to be able to do anything about FA.
This was an illusion however, as FAs great start and domination was inverted when HE was on softs and the other drivers on the harder tyres.

It was a damn fine pass however, especially given his inability to pass MS in the previous race and the RBs relative lack of top end speed.

How does making a small mistake in Q or getting lucky with safety cars or any other part of a race weekend make one win less legit that the other.
Now if they were gimi wins where 10 cars in front broke down...well then you may call the win illegitimate.
However.... even if a win came because 10 cars in front SLID of the track or ripped up their tyres doing faster laps than they should have, I would consider the win legit.

Damn.... do we not count SVs run of stunning wins in 2011 because well... he had the perfect car for his driving style so they were not legit wins..WTF.

Great drive By MW
Great WIN
Hope he can get some good results at his bad tracks this year because that is the only way he has a shot at the WDC

#365 Feanaro

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 16:54

A bit late, but great weekend for Webber.

I'll be cheering for him to win the WDC

#366 Kvothe

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 20:04

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#367 Silver Surfer

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 21:05

Agreed :) But there's that asterix there isn't there. No asterix this weekend.



What 'Asterix" are you talking about??? This one:

Posted Image

No victory of his needs any stupid asterix....he wasn't on steroids was he??? :rotfl: Every single victory in history could have a dumb asterix if you are going to nitpick tiny details to death. :rolleyes:

Great drive from Webber closing down a superior driver who was in the faster Ferrari for the win. Not as stunning a drive as Monaco 2010 or even Silverstone 2010 when he was fighting his own team, but still very impressive stuff. Now if the realiabilty holds and he can come away with good points at some of the upcoming Tilke wankfests that he hates he may be in with a chance at the end of the year to be WDC. More likely it will be Vettel versus Alonso for the title but Mark seems to be driving very well so far this year and needs to keep it together the rest of the season.

Edited by Silver Surfer, 09 July 2012 - 21:06.


#368 mymemoryfails

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 21:24

If I'm not very much mistaken, wasn't Barcelona 2010 Asterix free?

even threw his helmet to the kid in the crowd?


Whether Monaco 2010 was "perfect" or not, does anyone recall the youtube clip of the pool party with Seb trying to pull Mark in and failing? Somersault?

Good times - Asterix free for me
(Actually Ithought jumping in the harbour from a height "brave" considering how much work had been done on his pins the year before - maybe half an asterix there )

Good times .....ah before Turkey

mymemory fails

Edited by mymemoryfails, 09 July 2012 - 21:26.


#369 Eff One 2002

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 21:34

An awesome win for Webbo as Silverstone. :clap: Great to see him back on form after such a tough time last year.

#370 PassWind

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 21:37

Main thing is like Alonso (to which a few drivers around him have clicked onto), like Lewis and now Vettel somewhat he has kept himself in the hunt.

Both Lewis and Fred realized early and maybe Fred more so that consistency was going to be key to being in the hunt this season.

I think Rebull drivers took a little longer than the other two transitioning from dominance to crafting the seasons result. Taken a while I think for some to realize how cunning Alonso is. He is the modern Prost for mine. Mark has been displaying similar qualities but just isn't quite as good at maximizing his races sometimes. Though this year he has been very good at it.

Could all be the benefit of hindsight but Alonso is for me the best racer on the grid, all others have some excellent qualities, hoping Mark gets his WDC this year he is capable of getting it in the current racing climate.

#371 puxanando

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 21:39

An awesome win for Webbo as Silverstone. :clap: Great to see him back on form after such a tough time last year.


:) Like to see him in front of Vettel, the prince of RBR & Marko!


#372 GregAU

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 22:03

Lol at all this asterisk crap.

IMO not his best drive because he started from second on the grid...a perfect drive would be from pole position to the win.

Could argue this all day from just about any angle.

#373 EvanRainer

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 22:08

Both Lewis and Fred realized early and maybe Fred more so that consistency was going to be key to being in the hunt this season.

I think Rebull drivers took a little longer than the other two transitioning from dominance to crafting the seasons result.


Disagree. It was the car that didn't allow them to be consistent as RBR was trying to sort out their exhaust config. Vettel did perfect damage limitation and almost maximized his points every race. He has had 2 DNFs that were not his fault.

#374 gm914

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 22:11

Lol at all this asterisk crap.

Agreed.

#375 mymemoryfails

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 22:21

All his wins have been wake up the wife and neighbours for me
:)
mymemoryfails

#376 LoudHoward

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 22:39

People be crazy if they think Mark isn't being consistent this year, he's averaging 12-odd points a race, which is what you get for 4th place, of which position he has 5 of lol.

#377 Brother Fox

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 00:04

Not that he needs defending, but I 'think' (feel free to correct) Alfisti's point was that it was his best WEEKEND to date.
A great qualy pipped by a fraction to pole, then a clinical race with fast clean laps and a very nice pass where it was needed, with some more quick clean laps after to tell Alonso to settle for 2nd.

Karne, youve really got to relax a bit regarding Webber. You get the feeling that he could reverse down the pitlane sending mechanics scurrying and you'd blame the positioning of the garages.

Silverstone '10 - sticking it to 'the man' and the #2 driver comment: brilliant, loved it, but it was racey not perfect.
Monaco '10 - putting a gap to the field every restart was great to watch, super ballsy
But this weekend was clinical.



#378 PassWind

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 00:40

Disagree. It was the car that didn't allow them to be consistent as RBR was trying to sort out their exhaust config. Vettel did perfect damage limitation and almost maximized his points every race. He has had 2 DNFs that were not his fault.


Very little to do with exhaust, more to do with tire, race management. Whole season so far is little to do with the cars how many different winners? Not the cars. Out of that you have at the top the most consistent drivers, Fred, Mark, Seb and Lewis.

Crap on about Seb and his bad luck both Lewis and Mark have had to deal with Team and reliability issues, sorry tissue?

#379 slideways

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:15

If I'm not very much mistaken, wasn't Barcelona 2010 Asterix free?
even threw his helmet to the kid in the crowd?

mymemory fails

RBR stuffed up Vettel's pitstop and after that he had brake issues/failure. Later RBR claimed that chassis was damaged (luscious liz) for that race and Monaco (not many here believe that).

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#380 karne

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:22

Karne, youve really got to relax a bit regarding Webber. You get the feeling that he could reverse down the pitlane sending mechanics scurrying and you'd blame the positioning of the garages.


That would be dumb and stupid and of course I would be among the first to lambast Mark if he did such a stupid dangerous thing.

But I am not about to sit by and watch someone claiming that Mark's win were not legit, trying to belittle them and make out he didn't deserve them because they weren't "perfect".

Alfisti is not criticising, he is actively trying to tear Mark down, actively nitpicking at stupid, dumbass little things to make out like Mark's wins weren't good ones. I'm not about to sit here and cop that. I despise Vettel and even I would not do that to him.

#381 slideways

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:28

You idiot, Alfisti was on here supporting Webber since the atlas f1 days.

#382 Brother Fox

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:31

Legit .... Not Deserving ..... quote karne, quote!
I know you wont because he didnt say that, no one has. I think someone may have mentioned legit and it spiralled a bit from there but thats not the original argument.

Edit: slideways got to the point quicker than i did :)

Edited by Brother Fox, 10 July 2012 - 03:32.


#383 HoldenRT

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:41

Posted Image

:lol:

#384 HoldenRT

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:57

Main thing is like Alonso (to which a few drivers around him have clicked onto), like Lewis and now Vettel somewhat he has kept himself in the hunt.

Both Lewis and Fred realized early and maybe Fred more so that consistency was going to be key to being in the hunt this season.

I think Rebull drivers took a little longer than the other two transitioning from dominance to crafting the seasons result. Taken a while I think for some to realize how cunning Alonso is. He is the modern Prost for mine. Mark has been displaying similar qualities but just isn't quite as good at maximizing his races sometimes. Though this year he has been very good at it.

Could all be the benefit of hindsight but Alonso is for me the best racer on the grid, all others have some excellent qualities, hoping Mark gets his WDC this year he is capable of getting it in the current racing climate.

Mark's been very consistant this season IMO.. not blistering fast, but steady and very patient.. lots of 4ths.. the main blunders have come from not being his fault like Q2 in Barcelona and no DRS in Valencia.. think Canada was his main bad weekend? Or was that due to engine problem in first stint? I had no live timing for that race, I have no idea what really happened but just from the TV coverage it didn't seem his best race.

edit - He was 6 tenths off Seb in Q3 as well.. so yeah.

Edited by HoldenRT, 10 July 2012 - 03:57.


#385 karne

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:02

Legit .... Not Deserving ..... quote karne, quote!
I know you wont because he didnt say that, no one has. I think someone may have mentioned legit and it spiralled a bit from there but thats not the original argument.

Edit: slideways got to the point quicker than i did :)


Okay. Funnily enough, it was actually the person calling me an idiot who claimed Mark had not yet had a legitimate win...

Felt a bit like Mark's first 'legit beat them all win' to me


I find it extremely difficult to believe that Alfisti is a Webber fan when he comes out with rubbish like this:

He brushed the wall and missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing kubica to almost snatch it.


(which apparently makes Mark's win at Monaco 2010 not a good one)

And then starts mentioning asterixes, as though Mark is some drug-taking cheat:

Agreed :) But there's that asterix there isn't there.


I'll take Monaco 2010 or Hungaroring any day of the week, i just know an asterix when i see one.


No win of Mark's should have any asterix next to it. If Vettel screwed up, if the team screwed up, well guess what. That's motor racing. It does not mean Mark's win was any less of a win. It does not mean Mark's win was not "legit". And for goodness' sake, bringing up the fact that Mark brushed a wall and missed an apex and saying that means the whole weekend is tarnished?! Come on!

#386 HoldenRT

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:07

If there is such a thing, a TRULY non legit win was Heiki's with McLaren at Hungary.

He was in a race where he only had 3 other cars that could beat him. A 4 horse race.. and he was coming last, and the only reason he won was because those other 3 horses broke down and died.. :lol: and it was the only time he ever came close to winning.

#387 mymemoryfails

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:08

RBR stuffed up Vettel's pitstop and after that he had brake issues/failure. Later RBR claimed that chassis was damaged (luscious liz) for that race and Monaco (not many here believe that).


The way I remember it Webber was ahead all day. Don't remember Vettel's stop, but I do remember him playing kangaroo with the speed hump outside turn 1. If his chassis was cracked, that would have been it I suppose. Also remember Rocky and Seb negotiating how fast to go on dodgy brakes. But wasn't he 3rd or 4th at the time?

Anyway this is getting silly by me. :drunk: My view is that he had Seb's number well and truly in spain 2010, perhaps even more than Sunday. Vettel I think helped Webber indirectly by stopping early, forcing Mark to likewise and Fernando drawn into covering.

Anyway, we're not arguing, just "celebating a great win(s) robustly". :)


cheers
mymemoryfails




#388 mymemoryfails

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:12

If there is such a thing, a TRULY non legit win was Heiki's with McLaren at Hungary.

He was in a race where he only had 3 other cars that could beat him. A 4 horse race.. and he was coming last, and the only reason he won was because those other 3 horses broke down and died.. :lol: and it was the only time he ever came close to winning.



In Heikki's defence I call Steve Bradbury! No Australian jury will convict after Bradbury! :lol: :lol:

mymemoryfails

#389 Black Widow

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:21

RBR stuffed up Vettel's pitstop and after that he had brake issues/failure. Later RBR claimed that chassis was damaged (luscious liz) for that race and Monaco (not many here believe that).


Neither did Newey!

:)


Edit: Added smiley so that I wouldn't start another 20 pages of crap.

Edited by Black Widow, 10 July 2012 - 04:23.


#390 karne

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:25

Posted Image



IT'S OFFICIAL. MARK TO FERRARI :rotfl:

In Heikki's defence I call Steve Bradbury! No Australian jury will convict after Bradbury! :lol: :lol:

mymemoryfails


Bradbury is awesomeness. And the Bradbury Principle will always remain a legit tactic! :rotfl:

#391 Brother Fox

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:34

I find it extremely difficult to believe that Alfisti is a Webber fan when he comes out with rubbish like this:

He brushed the wall and missed an apex badly on his qualy lap, allowing kubica to almost snatch it.


(which apparently makes Mark's win at Monaco 2010 not a good one)

I find it extremely difficult to beleive you're an adult
Because someone notices some errors and realises how tight and lucky they were theyre not a fan? :rolleyes:

And then starts mentioning asterixes, as though Mark is some drug-taking cheat:


And wasn't the asterisk comment in relation to Monaco pole this year ... which he DID NOT get?


#392 slideways

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:41

Okay. Funnily enough, it was actually the person calling me an idiot who claimed Mark had not yet had a legitimate win...

I find it extremely difficult to believe that Alfisti is a Webber fan when he comes out with rubbish like this:


I literally wrote 'felt a bit like, to me'. The only claim I'll make is that no one cares what your thoughts are on alfisti, or F1 for that matter since all you do is overreact to everything. :down:

#393 karne

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:43

I find it extremely difficult to beleive you're an adult
Because someone notices some errors and realises how tight and lucky they were theyre not a fan? :rolleyes:


No, because someone uses it as an excuse to try and tear down Mark's first Monaco win...

And wasn't the asterisk comment in relation to Monaco pole this year ... which he DID NOT get?


No, actually, it was in relation to Hungary 2010.

#394 Wheels23

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:54

Webber already has 9 wins. Time just flies by and he needs 4 more to beat Alan Jones and tie with Jenson Button.

#395 Brother Fox

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:54

What the f ...

screw it, im out - anyone else wanna tag in?


#396 gm914

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 04:59

Ahh crap!
I was just reviewing the race again, and on lap 23, Mark missed the apex at Copse.
Another illegitimate win it seems... :(
I don't know how this Webber character can hold that trophy above his head with any dignity.
I mean the guy is just so imperfect it makes me sick!

Still, I'm a *fan.


#397 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:04

You idiot, Alfisti was on here supporting Webber since the atlas f1 days.

It still says Atlas F1 you just need to change the setting in the options somewhere. :)

#398 heineken2008

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:09

just looking at the standings . . and I know it is too early to say, but . . I'd be real happy with either of those 2, FA or MW winning the WDC

Mark may not be the most marketable guy on the grid, but he more than certainly gives back to the motorsport and sports in general - tremendous ambassador for whatever he is involved with

#399 lbennie

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:09

he did run it a tad wide after he got around alonso too.

warrants a double asterisk imo



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#400 gm914

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:29

he did run it a tad wide after he got around alonso too.

warrants a double asterisk imo

I say grid penalty then.
:wave:
And we should make him wear a Helmut Helmet at Hockenheim.