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Lewis Hamilton - Part II


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#1 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 12:10

Continuation of the discussion of Lewis Hamilton. Previous thread: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=159278

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#2 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 13:11

Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.


No not at all. I mean that it is wrong for Hamilton to place all the blame on his team. This thing is a team effort and imo both had responsibilities in letting Vettel (and Alonso) get past.

Hamilton should have come out with a statement along the lines of we have to do better as a team in the next race to prevent moving backward .....bla...bla...bla.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 01 June 2012 - 13:12.


#3 maverick69

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 13:20

No not at all. I mean that it is wrong for Hamilton to place all the blame on his team. This thing is a team effort and imo both had responsibilities in letting Vettel (and Alonso) get past.

Hamilton should have come out with a statement along the lines of we have to do better as a team in the next race to prevent moving backward .....bla...bla...bla.


Like this you mean:

"I really dislike going backwards, but we still go away with some points. There are many races ahead of us and we still need to keep pushing."

http://planetf1.com/...going-backwards

#4 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 13:46

Like this you mean:

"I really dislike going backwards, but we still go away with some points. There are many races ahead of us and we still need to keep pushing."

http://planetf1.com/...going-backwards


Right like that. But he should have left it at that.

He continued and pointed the finger at the team for his bad start, his bad pitstop and for not 'really' keeping him informed that Vettel could get past. Then he went on to say that he wasn't making any mistakes.

http://www.guardian....-mclaren-monaco


ps. And again in his quote above he goes back to his position of being satisfied that he collected some points. If he is going try to win the wdc he must fight to finish in ahead of Alonso, Vettel and now Webber. Those guys are finding some consistency now so Hamilton needs to respond. Lewis can't afford many more disasters (in wdc terms) like Monaco.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 01 June 2012 - 13:53.


#5 robefc

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 13:49

Right like that. But he should have left it at that.

Instead he continued and pointed the finger at the team for his bad start, his bad pitstop and for letting Vettel get past. Then he went on to say that he wasn't making any mistakes.

http://www.guardian....-mclaren-monaco


And again in his quote above he goes back to his position of being satisfied that he collected some points. If he is going try to win the wdc he must fight to finish Alonso and Vettel. Those guys are finding some consistency now so Hamilton needs to respond. Lewis can't afford many more disasters like Monaco.


As opposed to just cruising round with his feet up you mean?

I agree with you on lewis's comments, he talks far too much about himself rather than the team and himself as one, always has though, in fairness a lot of the attention is on him as an invididual but he could certainly do a lot more to promote team harmony.

But the constant stream of posts from about lewis cruising or nor fighting etc are just way of the mark imo.

#6 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 14:06

As opposed to just cruising round with his feet up you mean?

I agree with you on lewis's comments, he talks far too much about himself rather than the team and himself as one, always has though, in fairness a lot of the attention is on him as an invididual but he could certainly do a lot more to promote team harmony.

But the constant stream of posts from about lewis cruising or nor fighting etc are just way of the mark imo.



I haven't seen much of the fight in Hamilton's driving so far this season. If cruising isn't the term to use then perhaps you have a better one! He has toned it to far back imo to the point that his driving reminds me of Rosberg's style, good in qually, competent and safe during the races but lacking in spirit.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 02 June 2012 - 00:08.


#7 oligc94

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 14:23

I haven't seen much of the fight in Hamilton's driving so far this season. If cruising isn't the term to use then perhaps you have a better one! He is toned it to far back imo to the point that his driving reminds me of Rosberg's style, good in qually, competent and safe during the races but lacking in spirit.


Yeah, I agree. That drive in Spain from dead last to 8th was a veritable snooze-fest (especially that soporific double overtake on the STRs). Oh and his little duel with Webber in China, I think I nearly fell asleep during that one (that might have been because it was so damn early in the morning though).

To say Hamilton lacks spirit is ridiculous, as I consider him and Alonso (plus MSC Mark I) to be the most relentless competitors on the grid...

#8 TheBunk

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:26

Yeah, I agree. That drive in Spain from dead last to 8th was a veritable snooze-fest (especially that soporific double overtake on the STRs). Oh and his little duel with Webber in China, I think I nearly fell asleep during that one (that might have been because it was so damn early in the morning though).

To say Hamilton lacks spirit is ridiculous, as I consider him and Alonso (plus MSC Mark I) to be the most relentless competitors on the grid...


1. Melbourne: he got beaten by Button, and in the race never made a fighting impression, stuck for laps on Vettels gearbox.

2. Malaysia: even Chief Hamilton fan BBC writer Andrew Benson acknowledged Hamilton looked 'subdued' in conditions that 'should suit him'.

3. China: started seventh and got stuck behind Massa and Perez for a long time.

4. Bahrain: was another subdued race.

5. Spain: was a good drive but just a little better than old Schumacher, who finished 10th after starting last. Lewis also got overtaken by Vettel in a brilliant move.

6. Monaco: was another case of just follow the leader, not using his 'extra brain power' (canada 2008 quote) like Alonso, and instead moan at his team over the radio.

He scores good points, and seems to stop making silly mistakes but a relentless competitor? Not really.


#9 Markn93

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:31

1. Melbourne: he got beaten by Button, and in the race never made a fighting impression, stuck for laps on Vettels gearbox.

2. Malaysia: even Chief Hamilton fan BBC writer Andrew Benson acknowledged Hamilton looked 'subdued' in conditions that 'should suit him'.

3. China: started seventh and got stuck behind Massa and Perez for a long time.

4. Bahrain: was another subdued race.

5. Spain: was a good drive but just a little better than old Schumacher, who finished 10th after starting last. Lewis also got overtaken by Vettel in a brilliant move.

6. Monaco: was another case of just follow the leader, not using his 'extra brain power' (canada 2008 quote) like Alonso, and instead moan at his team over the radio.

He scores good points, and seems to stop making silly mistakes but a relentless competitor? Not really.


All credability of yours is lost when you describe Vettel's use of the DRS and much newer tyres to overtake in a straight line as "brilliant".

Edited by Markn93, 01 June 2012 - 15:32.


#10 smitten

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:35

Lewis also got overtaken by Vettel in a brilliant move.


You really are a tonic. I appreciate that you think Vettel has brilliant hair, a brilliant finger, and brilliant bowel movements but credit where credit is due: Vettel did manage a solid pass which is something that must be singled-out for rarity. I'm not convinced that newer tyres and the advantage of DRS makes for a brilliant pass under any circumstances, but Hamilton did manage (rather brilliantly to my mind) to avoid the retirement oft-times associated with Vettel attempting a passing manoeuvre.

#11 TheBunk

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:37

All credability of yours is lost when you describe Vettel's use of the DRS and much newer tyres to overtake in a straight line as "brilliant".


It still was a good move. But if you think that DRS move from Vettel on Hamilton at Spain dismisses any criticism on the lack of fighting spirit throughout 2012...be my guest :)

#12 jrg19

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:49

I hope we aren't once again disappointed next weekend with another stunning pole from Lewis for it to be ruined by something out of his control.

#13 maverick69

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:56

I hope we aren't once again disappointed next weekend with another stunning pole from Lewis for it to be ruined by something out of his control.


Things/luck will change.

He's right in the fight despite what's gone on.

Canada up next - his best track.

#14 Markn93

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 15:58

Yup, he's a beast round there, maybe someone should start a Canada Master thread? :p

#15 maverick69

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 16:05

Yup, he's a beast round there, maybe someone should start a Canada Master thread? :p


:lol:

Just leave out the couple of prangs............

#16 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 16:27

Posts already deleted.

Nobody wants to know what you think about other posters. If you are unable to argue the points made, then do not respond. If someone is clearly trolling, then report them but still do not respond.

If you think it is acceptable to say how much you like Hamilton, remember that it must also be acceptable to say how much you do not. If you call him a Driving God, then someone else will want to call him a Driving Idiot, but be aware that we consider each to be as bad as the other and if one is trolling to wind up posters then both are. We would much prefer that you discuss reasonable opinions so maybe best to avoid extremes either way.

Remember to play the ball not the man.

If this post is unclear, PM me. It is not up for discussion in the thread.

Remember also that calling someone a troll or a fanboy is simply a personal attack and neither should be routinely considered acceptable or tolerated. It shows a lack of respect for the argument and is an example of playing the man not the ball. It happens so often in these threads that it becomes pointless to worry but if everyone makes the effort to avoid it then perhaps the whole mood of the place can improve to the benefit of us all.

#17 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 16:33

Yeah, I agree. That drive in Spain from dead last to 8th was a veritable snooze-fest (especially that soporific double overtake on the STRs). Oh and his little duel with Webber in China, I think I nearly fell asleep during that one (that might have been because it was so damn early in the morning though).

To say Hamilton lacks spirit is ridiculous, as I consider him and Alonso (plus MSC Mark I) to be the most relentless competitors on the grid...



Spain is where is could let it all hang out as he had nothing to lose starting from the back. But even there when he came up to Massa he stopped pushing and if not for a timely penalty to FM would have remained behind him until his next pit stop. The other races were pretty laid back events for LH where imo he was just trying to cash in on his qually results.

Canada will be interesting to watch as Lewis has a lot of confidence around there. He should be able to show us what he can do!

(he must finish ahead of SV, FA, MW and perhaps NR)

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 01 June 2012 - 16:39.


#18 P123

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 16:43

1. Melbourne: he got beaten by Button, and in the race never made a fighting impression, stuck for laps on Vettels gearbox.


I'd only agree with you on point 1; the rest is rather selective, misleading, forgetful or unjustified. Given your posting history with regards anything to do with Hamilton it's probably not worth going through point by point but I would say if you deem his teamates' performance worthy of consideration in Oz then you should probably continue in that vein with the rest of your 'analysis'.

Edited by P123, 01 June 2012 - 16:44.


#19 P123

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 16:46

Spain is where is could let it all hang out as he had nothing to lose starting from the back. But even there when he came up to Massa he stopped pushing and if not for a timely penalty to FM would have remained behind him until his next pit stop. The other races were pretty laid back events for LH where imo he was just trying to cash in on his qually results.

Canada will be interesting to watch as Lewis has a lot of confidence around there. He should be able to show us what he can do!

(he must finish ahead of SV, FA, MW and perhaps NR)


It's a long season Halifax. 14 races to go. How do you propose HAmilton should 'let it all hang out'? Wild oversteer to destory his tyres? Collide iwth Massa? A late lunge here or there? Of course, all of this increases the risks of him DNF-ing or doing a Kimi in China.... ;)

Edited by P123, 01 June 2012 - 16:47.


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#20 Kvothe

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 16:49

I'd only agree with you on point 1; the rest is rather selective, misleading, forgetful or unjustified. Given your posting history with regards anything to do with Hamilton it's probably not worth going through point by point but I would say if you deem his teamates' performance worthy of consideration in Oz then you should probably continue in that vein with the rest of your 'analysis'.


:up:

#21 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 17:08

It's a long season Halifax. 14 races to go. How do you propose HAmilton should 'let it all hang out'? Wild oversteer to destory his tyres? Collide iwth Massa? A late lunge here or there? Of course, all of this increases the risks of him DNF-ing or doing a Kimi in China....;)



He should do what Vettel and Alonso are doing smart racing and excellent execution.

In Monaco it was all strategic so no need for late lunges, or 'wild oversteer' or to collide with Massa. But he needed to have driven a race to prevent those two from jumping him. To me it didn't appear that he was trying to execute any plan there at all, and he certainly wasn't trying to race Rosberg. All I am pointing out is that In the remaining races he is going to have find a way to finish in front of those guys.

So far Vettel and Alonso are driving slower cars to more points. Hamilton needs to elevate his game to their level if he is to have a chance at the wdc imo.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 01 June 2012 - 17:10.


#22 OO7

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 17:31

Continuation of the discussion of Lewis Hamilton. Previous thread: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=159278

The war in the previous thread got so bad it literally fried that portion of the server?

#23 bonjon1979a

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 18:32

1. Melbourne: he got beaten by Button, and in the race never made a fighting impression, stuck for laps on Vettels gearbox.

2. Malaysia: even Chief Hamilton fan BBC writer Andrew Benson acknowledged Hamilton looked 'subdued' in conditions that 'should suit him'.

3. China: started seventh and got stuck behind Massa and Perez for a long time.

4. Bahrain: was another subdued race.

5. Spain: was a good drive but just a little better than old Schumacher, who finished 10th after starting last. Lewis also got overtaken by Vettel in a brilliant move.

6. Monaco: was another case of just follow the leader, not using his 'extra brain power' (canada 2008 quote) like Alonso, and instead moan at his team over the radio.

He scores good points, and seems to stop making silly mistakes but a relentless competitor? Not really.


Err, didn't schumacher DNF after nerfing the back of Senna in Barcelona?

Bahrain - lost close to 20 seconds in pitstop mistakes

Yes, the vettel 'pass' was him completely outclassing hamilton.

I wonder if you actually watch the races.

Edited by Buttoneer, 01 June 2012 - 18:33.


#24 ForzaGTR

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 18:50

He should do what Vettel and Alonso are doing smart racing and excellent execution.

In Monaco it was all strategic so no need for late lunges, or 'wild oversteer' or to collide with Massa. But he needed to have driven a race to prevent those two from jumping him. To me it didn't appear that he was trying to execute any plan there at all, and he certainly wasn't trying to race Rosberg. All I am pointing out is that In the remaining races he is going to have find a way to finish in front of those guys.

So far Vettel and Alonso are driving slower cars to more points. Hamilton needs to elevate his game to their level if he is to have a chance at the wdc imo.


Mclaren is the 3rd/4th fastest car in terms of race space. Stop judging the cars off Melbourne alone.

In some races both Mclaren drivers have been convincingly out paced.

He'll finish infront when his team stop cocking up every race. And you know it.

#25 tifosiMac

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 18:54

Spain is where is could let it all hang out as he had nothing to lose starting from the back. But even there when he came up to Massa he stopped pushing and if not for a timely penalty to FM would have remained behind him until his next pit stop.

That wasn't through lack of spirit or ability. When your team tell you to ease off and save your tyres for a longer stint, you tend to do that as a driver rather than pushing and ruining your race further just to pull off what some fans think are impressive moves. We all know how good Lewis is at overtaking but its very different this season with the tyres. The spirit hasn't gone, he's just driving in a more mature fashion but so far luck hasn't gone his way. It will come.

#26 Towny

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 18:55

1. Melbourne: he got beaten by Button, and in the race never made a fighting impression, stuck for laps on Vettels gearbox.

2. Malaysia: even Chief Hamilton fan BBC writer Andrew Benson acknowledged Hamilton looked 'subdued' in conditions that 'should suit him'.

3. China: started seventh and got stuck behind Massa and Perez for a long time.

4. Bahrain: was another subdued race.

5. Spain: was a good drive but just a little better than old Schumacher, who finished 10th after starting last. Lewis also got overtaken by Vettel in a brilliant move.

6. Monaco: was another case of just follow the leader, not using his 'extra brain power' (canada 2008 quote) like Alonso, and instead moan at his team over the radio.

He scores good points, and seems to stop making silly mistakes but a relentless competitor? Not really.


:lol: I'd say ham's drive in spain was brilliant and how could anybody forget vettels epic overtake...........

#27 ForzaGTR

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 18:58

:lol: I'd say ham's drive in spain was brilliant and how could anybody forget vettels epic overtake...........


He also conveniently forgets Lewis had done something like 30 laps on his tyres with Vettel on much fresher rubber.

#28 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:11

As a huge Ferrari & Fernando Alonso fan, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Lewis come to Maranello. Unlike many in these forums, Lewis and Fernando actually get along and have much respect for each other. Both truly consider the other their main rival and toughest competition. It would definitely change the chemistry in the team a bit but I think both drivers would certainly feed off the other and I think it would be much different than 2007. And I say that not because Ferrari would treat Fernando different to Lewis. There's much respect for Lewis in Maranello. That said I don't think Lewis goes anywhere. Not this time around. I think after he signs this contract with McLaren for another few years, after it expires, he tries something different.

#29 Towny

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:12

He also conveniently forgets Lewis had done something like 30 laps on his tyres with Vettel on much fresher rubber.

Ssshhh! you can't say that, we can't let the facts get in the way of vettel's brilliant overtake :D

#30 hammibal

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:42

Spain is where is could let it all hang out as he had nothing to lose starting from the back. But even there when he came up to Massa he stopped pushing and if not for a timely penalty to FM would have remained behind him until his next pit stop. The other races were pretty laid back events for LH where imo he was just trying to cash in on his qually results.

Canada will be interesting to watch as Lewis has a lot of confidence around there. He should be able to show us what he can do!

(he must finish ahead of SV, FA, MW and perhaps NR)

You just coveniently forget that Lewis was on a 2 stop strategy so was in tyre saving mode, he would have walked the race if not for the incompetence of his team

#31 Viktoria

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:43

As a huge Ferrari & Fernando Alonso fan, I honestly wouldn't mind seeing Lewis come to Maranello. Unlike many in these forums, Lewis and Fernando actually get along and have much respect for each other. Both truly consider the other their main rival and toughest competition. It would definitely change the chemistry in the team a bit but I think both drivers would certainly feed off the other and I think it would be much different than 2007. And I say that not because Ferrari would treat Fernando different to Lewis. There's much respect for Lewis in Maranello. That said I don't think Lewis goes anywhere. Not this time around. I think after he signs this contract with McLaren for another few years, after it expires, he tries something different.



:clap: I would give anything to see Lewis and Fernando in the same team again! If both really wanna be memorable and rememberd at the same level as Senna, they have to drive at the same time with the same team!! Do you know what I mean??



#32 hammibal

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:48

It's a long season Halifax. 14 races to go. How do you propose HAmilton should 'let it all hang out'? Wild oversteer to destory his tyres? Collide iwth Massa? A late lunge here or there? Of course, all of this increases the risks of him DNF-ing or doing a Kimi in China....;)

I think thats exactly whats being proposed, the ammunition is running low when Lewis is being criticised for driving too sensible

#33 hammibal

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:51

He should do what Vettel and Alonso are doing smart racing and excellent execution.

In Monaco it was all strategic so no need for late lunges, or 'wild oversteer' or to collide with Massa. But he needed to have driven a race to prevent those two from jumping him. To me it didn't appear that he was trying to execute any plan there at all, and he certainly wasn't trying to race Rosberg. All I am pointing out is that In the remaining races he is going to have find a way to finish in front of those guys.

So far Vettel and Alonso are driving slower cars to more points. Hamilton needs to elevate his game to their level if he is to have a chance at the wdc imo.

Just forgetting two grid penalities and pitstop maladies that have ruined 3 out of his 6 races, without these Lewis would be leading the WDC

#34 TheBunk

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:45

I'd only agree with you on point 1; the rest is rather selective, misleading, forgetful or unjustified. Given your posting history with regards anything to do with Hamilton it's probably not worth going through point by point but I would say if you deem his teamates' performance worthy of consideration in Oz then you should probably continue in that vein with the rest of your 'analysis'.


But his performance vs his teammate wasnt the subject. Hamilton being a fighting, relentless competitor is. In my opinion weve not seen a lot of that in 2012. It could all be part of his new approach, but there are other drivers showing a bit more fighting than him atm.

As I said, he scores good points, stays out of trouble. To be accused of lacking a fighting spirit is a very small part of his results. I dont understand why some have trouble that others see things this way.

Edited by TheBunk, 01 June 2012 - 20:46.


#35 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 21:10

Discussion about Hamilton vs Button goes here: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=168704

Keep this thread about Lewis. Thank you.

#36 SCEPurple

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 21:25

But his performance vs his teammate wasnt the subject. Hamilton being a fighting, relentless competitor is. In my opinion weve not seen a lot of that in 2012. It could all be part of his new approach, but there are other drivers showing a bit more fighting than him atm.

As I said, he scores good points, stays out of trouble. To be accused of lacking a fighting spirit is a very small part of his results. I dont understand why some have trouble that others see things this way.



Many of the drivers have said how driving must be changed to accomodate the Pirelli tyres. I think Mark Webber went into good detail about it in the Monaco press conference. Generally all the drivers are finding themselves limited by their car's characteristics in the race with tyre wear so I don't feel it is likely we will see heroic "swashbuckling" type drives very often - maybe in the dying laps of the race with comparable condition tyres.

The way to overtake seem to be having a long enough 7th gear for DRS or somehow having less tyre wear at the same or faster pace than your rivals - this is not particularly favourable for the bolded part above. Honestly I don't feel I can say either way for Lewis this season, there was the overtake on Nico Rosberg in Bahrain that I think is as fighting/relentless as you're allowed to be (even infringing on the rules). His driving in qualifying has so far for me, been almost as impressive as Vettel's last year over the first 6 races (who I truly believe extracted very near to the maximum of that car most Saturdays).

#37 TheBunk

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 21:42

Many of the drivers have said how driving must be changed to accomodate the Pirelli tyres. I think Mark Webber went into good detail about it in the Monaco press conference. Generally all the drivers are finding themselves limited by their car's characteristics in the race with tyre wear so I don't feel it is likely we will see heroic "swashbuckling" type drives very often - maybe in the dying laps of the race with comparable condition tyres.

The way to overtake seem to be having a long enough 7th gear for DRS or somehow having less tyre wear at the same or faster pace than your rivals - this is not particularly favourable for the bolded part above. Honestly I don't feel I can say either way for Lewis this season, there was the overtake on Nico Rosberg in Bahrain that I think is as fighting/relentless as you're allowed to be (even infringing on the rules). His driving in qualifying has so far for me, been almost as impressive as Vettel's last year over the first 6 races (who I truly believe extracted very near to the maximum of that car most Saturdays).


Well, different opinions I guess. Despite the tyres, weve seen a lot of fighting from others.

#38 Sinceref189

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 23:12

Well, different opinions I guess. Despite the tyres, weve seen a lot of fighting from others.

Yea well that supposed fighting is either drivers on newer tyres vs drivers on old tyres making there way through the pack with the use of DRS and let me guess who your really talking about cough cough ' Vettel ' cough cough lol

#39 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 00:04

Mclaren is the 3rd/4th fastest car in terms of race space. Stop judging the cars off Melbourne alone.

In some races both Mclaren drivers have been convincingly out paced.

He'll finish infront when his team stop cocking up every race. And you know it.



Qually results over the first six races shows that Hamilton/MP4-25 are the fastest 'package' this season.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 02 June 2012 - 00:07.


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#40 Kingshark

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 00:45

Best car in purely based on race pace each weekend.

Australia - Mclaren
Malaysia - Sauber
China - Mercedes
Bahrain - Lotus
Spain - Williams
Monaco - Red Bull

Tbh, Mclaren really haven't had the best car all season; however, overall they have definitely been the best package. They aren't leading both championships as they should be because the team is mentally incompetent.

#41 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 01:14

That wasn't through lack of spirit or ability. When your team tell you to ease off and save your tyres for a longer stint, you tend to do that as a driver rather than pushing and ruining your race further just to pull off what some fans think are impressive moves. We all know how good Lewis is at overtaking but its very different this season with the tyres. The spirit hasn't gone, he's just driving in a more mature fashion but so far luck hasn't gone his way. It will come.


As you and others point out he does seem to be particularly unsettled by the tires. Do you think as a result he is being overly cautious and is leaving performance in the tires more than the other drivers?

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 02 June 2012 - 01:14.


#42 gricey1981

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 02:01

As you and others point out he does seem to be particularly unsettled by the tires. Do you think as a result he is being overly cautious and is leaving performance in the tires more than the other drivers?


To be honest I think he is managing the tires the best this season.

Spain - a perfect example of this. China as well. I do not see anywhere where there was any extra performance.



#43 Muz Bee

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 02:02

I think every driver in the teams expected to feature are struggling a lot, if not most, of the time. The Pirelli manufactured drama is wearing thin. Drivers can look all hooked up and imperious in FP3 and then inexplicably fail to make Q3, such are the vagaries of these tyres. Lewis is no god who can lead the team in understanding and predicting the tyre performance and dropoff of performance. I think he is driving as well as ever, at least I see no evidence that he isn't, when measured against how EVERY top driver has had to struggle at times. Look at Vettel! He has failed to make Q3, struggled to make an impression in Q3 and generally failed for raw pace. Having said that the team have done some clever work which have maximised his results. At McLaren I would have to say they are a little off their game in terms of pitstops AND strategy. The low fueling and wheel changing incidents have cost Lewis dearly at times when he was set to collect good points. Lewis is driving well, really well, as his teammate is not the mug some thought 2 years ago and Lewis is now asserting himself as The Man.

As someone said, it is a long season and comments made this early can look foolish when the flag falls in Brazil. Good to see signs that LH is growing up but there's still room for improvement there. Schumacher has endured some poor pitstops and strategies and I thought they also failed to give Rosberg any chance of victory at Monaco with their ill-timed pitstop - laptimes v Webber bear this out. Only Ferrari - with an ordinary car out of the blocks - seem to have kept their heads along with Alonso and they are looking good at the moment. But I think at the many "aero" tracks McLaren should shine again. They need to capitalise on when they are in a winning position and I just suspect there is a lack of killer instinct in senior personnel. Both McLaren and Mercedes need to take a good look at their pitwork and strategies IMO as they are both failing to fully capitalise on their competitiveness.

#44 pingu666

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 03:51

lewis does look to be droning around making laps alot of the time :(, but its what these tyres need, so :/


#45 packapoo

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 05:28

lewis does look to be droning around making laps alot of the time :(, but its what these tyres need, so :/


Just what we need....
A Karthekiyan clone - driving round and round, never racing..........I don't think so.


#46 robefc

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:09

Bunk, this reply is for you too ;)

I haven't seen much of the fight in Hamilton's driving so far this season. If cruising isn't the term to use then perhaps you have a better one! He has toned it to far back imo to the point that his driving reminds me of Rosberg's style, good in qually, competent and safe during the races but lacking in spirit.


Lets see how I can do... :D

How about maximising the car in all but one race despite numerous set backs through no fault of his own in the context of teams and drivers struggling to understand the tyres?

Oz he wasn't on button's pace, simple, presumably mainly down to set up, although it's worth pointing out that he still lost the lead thanks to a poor start thanks to a mistake by the engineers and 2nd place thanks to the SC.

Every other race I don't know what more he could have done, of course lewis in a macca being outpaced by Perez in a sauber looks subdued but the car wouldn't go as quick as the sauber in those conditions, unless you feel perez is simply quicker than lewis or lewis was just cruising because he didn't have the fight to race a sauber???

In Monaco I suspect the ferrari had the pace on the macca so there was nothing he could have done to prevent alonso getting past him, the Vettel one should never have happened, maybe that was Lewis sleeping, it seems the team had some involvement but either way I don't think the reason Vettel got past him was because he 'lacked the fight' to put in a quick lap and get on Alonso's gearbox!

Bahrain was a good example of how a) he's suffered from several misfortunes this season b) the tyres mean that 'fighting' has to include tyre management rather than balls out passing moves or lap times and c) he's such a non fighting pussy crusiing driver this year that he kept his foot in off track to pass rosberg (regardless of whether this should have been allowed or not).

Finally Spain is a brilliant example of how a fighting charge from the back this year involves doing a 2 stop and keeping your tyres in shape...it's kind of hard to look all banzai with constraints like that, I'm sure he would have preferred to be starting from the back on tyres that could take a pounding so he could replicate Turkey 2006 but sadly that's not the case.

Finally, finally, does the cruising non fighting driver not have the most overtakes of everyone this season?

Edited by robefc, 02 June 2012 - 10:10.


#47 robefc

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:11

Qually results over the first six races shows that Hamilton/MP4-25 are the fastest 'package' this season.


Oh come on, do we have to have a discussions about quali and race pace every few pages or are you just deliberately being disingenuous now?!?!

#48 Lazy

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:18

Oh come on, do we have to have a discussions about quali and race pace every few pages or are you just deliberately being disingenuous now?!?!


Bloody Button fans, haters gonna hate 'spose :mad:

 ;)

#49 Markn93

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 21:37

Just heard the "you should have kept me informed, man" message from Lewis after Vettel got him out of the pits and I think this has to be the final straw for his race engineer. Someone higher up, whether it be Ron or Whitmarsh should identify the lack of 'chemistry' (for want of a better word) between them and do something about it. This could end up costing him the title.

#50 undersquare

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 23:14

Just heard the "you should have kept me informed, man" message from Lewis after Vettel got him out of the pits and I think this has to be the final straw for his race engineer. Someone higher up, whether it be Ron or Whitmarsh should identify the lack of 'chemistry' (for want of a better word) between them and do something about it. This could end up costing him the title.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty mild considering! Left on a laptime and one car length short of that keeping that place, it was ridiculous.