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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#451 Diablobb81

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:34

Absolutely no pace.

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#452 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:35

Car is shit as usual. :rolleyes:

#453 Longtimefan

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:36

Total joke team..

:(



#454 Urawa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:36

awful, not much cars which are worse here

#455 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:39

STR level. Their work on setups is a joke. They didn't learn anything.

#456 Augurk

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:39

Only rain will help us. This dreadful pace is hard to believe.

#457 Scotracer

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:40

Hardly STR level.

Not great, though.

#458 Massa_f1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:47

Mercedes efforts on not improving the car and just concentrating on tyres is really showing :rolleyes:

#459 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:48

Hardly STR level.

Not great, though.

They have 1:38.2 like Michael now. Exactly the same pace by STR.


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#460 FlashMaster

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:49

What a garbage car and garbage team. MSC should retire, they don't deserve him.

#461 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:51

Middle sector is tragic.

#462 Sof1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:52

Everyone is faster than Merc. WTF?!

#463 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:57

Yeah, Nico overtake HRT. Joy.

#464 DutchCruijff

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:05

Incredible understanding of the tyres.

#465 Urawa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:16

signs of pace now...

#466 Sof1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:22

Yay 7th! What a result! Dropped 4 spots because of all the upgrades and tire understanding!

#467 Urawa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:34

setup tweaks, longer wheelbase, lighter gearbox etc. and the car still can´t use the tyres like most of the field.
What´s up?

#468 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:37

I expected more from TD trio. Bell, Costa and Willis. For now nothing, car is going backwards.

#469 SparkPlug

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:44

We'll do well to remember that Mercedes were probably gambling on a wet setup (which means looking for more downforce and thus more tyre eating in a dry race).

Also, they didnt test their new parts for this same reason. On a more predictable weekend they might've done better.

#470 F1Champion

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:46

I guess the tyre developments can't be easily be seen with such a green dry weather setup. It might have been better with more dry running. I guess the next GP will show. But the car is slower than Ferrari, Red Bull and Renault and maybe the Sauber's as well....not sure about McLaren yet.

#471 F1Champion

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:51

We'll do well to remember that Mercedes were probably gambling on a wet setup (which means looking for more downforce and thus more tyre eating in a dry race).

Also, they didnt test their new parts for this same reason. On a more predictable weekend they might've done better.


Not sure about that more downforce is slow in a straight line but less tyre degradation. Plus they were able to change their setup to a dry one which everyone would have done at the beginning of the race.

#472 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:52

The only difference was monkey seat they run this weekend.
Nico was not very fast last year too. Track doesn't suit him?

Edited by ivand911, 08 July 2012 - 13:54.


#473 sharo

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:55

Even on new tyres the car is slow, slower than a Sauber, maybe even more.

#474 Urawa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 13:59

Even on new tyres the car is slow, slower than a Sauber, maybe even more.


that´s an insult to Sauber I fear :p
They have a very good car but suffer a bit on saturday and with their drivers.
Often one of the top 3 fastest car on sunday I think.

#475 sharo

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:00

that´s an insult to Sauber I fear :p

:blush: I guess you may be right.

#476 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:01

Is my eyes playing tricks with me? Did Nico finish behind STR? How that happen?

#477 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:03

Maybe something not quite right after the last pit-stop? He dropped behind actually, instead of improving on the softs.

#478 Urawa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:04

Is my eyes playing tricks with me? Did Nico finish behind STR? How that happen?


bad pit stop, some 5-6 sec lost I guess and not much pace on the soft compound later.

#479 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:04

Maybe something not quite right after the last pit-stop? He dropped behind actually, instead of improving on the softs.

Alonso also dropped on the softs so...

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#480 george1981

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:06

bad pit stop, some 5-6 sec lost I guess and not much pace on the soft compound later.


They showed a replay on BBC during the race. The front left wheel man wasn't happy, he either changed nut or just reapplied the gun to check that the wheel was on securely.

#481 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:07

This is one of the things that are really irking about this year's tyres. Softs should be reliably faster than hards and they almost never are this year except for quali, which just isn't right as far as the strategic options are concerned.

#482 Pits

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:17

Not a great race for Merc. as expected, looking at the circumstances I think Michael did a great race.
Today we saw a car on a track that doesn't suit it, and a wet set-up on a bone dry track. To finish 7th is the best they could hope for.

Upwards and onwards! :up:

#483 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:25

The average gap per lap between Schumi and Webber was 0.5 seconds, so that's not as bad as last year, but just not what we'd expect with the close field we have today.

Also, worth noting that Grosjean was fast than Schumacher in 42 of the 52 laps, while both had pretty clear runs, so a) Grosjean had a cracking race and b) Lotus is MUCH faster than MGP. In conditions which allegedly didn't suit them, too.

#484 Urawa

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:28

The average gap per lap between Schumi and Webber was 0.5 seconds, so that's not as bad as last year, but just not what we'd expect with the close field we have today.

Also, worth noting that Grosjean was fast than Schumacher in 42 of the 52 laps, while both had pretty clear runs, so a) Grosjean had a cracking race and b) Lotus is MUCH faster than MGP. In conditions which allegedly didn't suit them, too.


Lotus definitely did a stunning job this year, the car is just good everywhere, looks easy to drive, easy on its tyres.
Overall the best car of the year IMO and only a matter of time untill they win a race.


#485 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:31

It's still difficult to contend with the fact that the likes of Lotus, Williams and Sauber have managed to put together a car that is generally at least as good as the Mercedes, although they were (much) further back last year.

#486 Sakae

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:38

It is over for this year. I am sorry to play pessimist, but I do not see this getting any better for balance of this season. Ross, alleges Hembery, was one of the people who were requesting 2012 tire specification, and whilst I haven't seen any data to collaborate that statement, it seems that Mercedes F1 team under Ross's leadership cannot handle this product at optimum performance. I do like Ross as he played large and instrumental role in Michael's life, but this is simply no good. Situation I fear could be impactful at the corporate office, and remains to be seen if salvageable. Many at Stuttgart are obviously proud on markee's racing history, but there is also opposition demanding re-focus on commercial markets. Norbert Haug and all of his team have to be pretty strong to wheather this over.

Edited by Sakae, 08 July 2012 - 14:39.


#487 Paco

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:41

Had it not been for reliablity issues, Mercedes results would have been much better all season and Merc would be ahead of McLaren! in the standings.

Races where Fri-Sat are rain days and Sunday dry don't show how teams are doing in full out pace etc. Compromised setups hedging against dry or wet race predication effects the team more then actual all out performance.

At the end of the day. Blah weekend due to weather that resulted in an ok race. I wouldn't draw a single conclusion between teams from today's results.

All I took away from this weekend..

Nico was seriously off pace.
Michael was able to finish the race - even though it looked like he might have had a drs issue so more reliability issues.
Merc was just ok. Got the job done but in a very mediocre way.

Edited by Paco, 08 July 2012 - 14:46.


#488 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 14:46

Well, this is the third race in a row where Mercedes are not quite competitive in the dry, bar for the windfall they had in Valencia, thanks to others retiring.

6th-10th seems to be the current slot for the team.

And the fact is that the car behavior looks similar from race to race, so you can't really see where the improvements reside.

Frankly speaking, the team have only been competitive in the race in Monaco and China and except for Schumacher's good achievement in quali yesterday, they haven't looked much stronger quali-wise either since Monaco.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 08 July 2012 - 14:53.


#489 Paco

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:05

Even as Brawn.. this team seems to basically not develop mid to end of season for whatever reason while almost every other team make steady weekly improvements hence narrowing the gap and the odd team or team passing them.

Its almost as if Brawn gives up and feels there is a fundamental unaddressable issue with the car and puts his resources into making the next car right but the strategy doesn't seem to be working for him. He got lucky that the Honda gave him the championship cause he really hasn't done anything other then holding the course and staying status quo.

Whereas Ferrari, Redbull, Williams, FI seem to make really significant gains from the start of the season to 3/4th of the way through.

Maybe it's time for Merc to give serious consideration that the stagnation at MGP isn't the technical team or drivers but the business guy running it.. maybe it's time for Brawn to step done for 2013..

Edited by Paco, 08 July 2012 - 15:06.


#490 Massa_f1

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:07

Even as Brawn.. this team seems to basically not develop mid to end of season for whatever reason while almost every other team make steady weekly improvements hence narrowing the gap and the odd team or team passing them.

Its almost as if Brawn gives up and feels there is a fundamental unaddressable issue with the car and puts his resources into making the next car right but the strategy doesn't seem to be working for him. He got lucky that the Honda gave him the championship cause he really hasn't done anything other then holding the course and staying status quo.

Whereas Ferrari, Redbull, Williams, FI seem to make really significant gains from the start of the season to 3/4th of the way through.

Maybe it's time for Merc to give serious consideration that the stagnation at MGP isn't the technical team or drivers but the business guy running it.. maybe it's time for Brawn to step done for 2013..



I agree the team never seem to make updates during the season. They just keep the car they had at the stat of the season. It's not good.

#491 MSchumi

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:23

Mercedes is starting to run out of excuses. The German team is now also comfortably behind Lotus. Did beat McLaren but they always seemed to have an 'off' day today.
All I remember is cars going past Schumacher from left and right and passing Hamilton at the end is little consolation. At this rate, Merc will not be achieving any more podiums this season on pure pace, certainly not in the dry. Monza and Spa might give a shot at it, but I wouldn't count on it. Schumacher's victory looks increasingly harder to achieve, due to no fault of his own.

#492 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:30

Silverstone, Sunday – Ross: “We will work hard to learn our lessons from today before Hockenheim”
http://www.mercedes-...fore-hockenheim

This is not good enough. It is the same old every weekend. I don't agree that they were 4th best team today. Maldo and Perez were quicker. If they have to learn again ,then they didn't learn nothing until now.

Edited by ivand911, 08 July 2012 - 15:34.


#493 SeanValen

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:34

They douldn't run updates on a expected wet weekend.


If it had rain, I suspect we may have seen a Alonso, Webber and Schumacher battle for the victory. Instead were thinking about a dry race which we didn't want, the circuit's characteristics for whatever reaoon wasn't one merc was looking forward to in the dry.

Michael has been on fire this weekend, and with so much rain, it didn't occur on the day it mattered the most, I think we lost out big time with no rain and Michael-was vintage form.


With Mclaren looking worse you must say and Pasto Mad Man meladoe, could be of been worse in the dry.


I think today we lost a chance to see Michael challenge for the win, instead like I've seen were discussing dry race, not ideal, kinda a lottery set up race. Silly weather.



I agree the team never seem to make updates during the season. They just keep the car they had at the stat of the season. It's not good.



Forgeting the negativity for a moment, consider this
They didn't bring updates to a expected wet weekend. Why bring updates to a wet testing session? A waste of resources. With gp weekends being test weekends, I think Mercedes didn't have a choice, but to work on their current configuration, the only thing that didn't work out and we knew it was the case, that it had to rain on race day.

The next race will be more of a indicator.


Merceeds beat Mclaren Mercedes, and if Mclaren-big team can get it wrong in the dry, it shows you can't just pick on mercedes as having issues, this is a complicated season which deserves patience and consideration in challenging times.

Forge aead, move forward, can't change the past. :smoking: :up:

Edited by SeanValen, 08 July 2012 - 15:42.


#494 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:36

I don't think they have any new updates for this race. Again MS bad luck give him dry race.

#495 rog

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:39

It once again confirmed they have not enough downforce in high speed corners. They are not competitive on such tracks and today we can't blame high track temperatures for the lack of competitiveness.

Edited by rog, 08 July 2012 - 15:39.


#496 Szoelloe

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:44

I don't think they have any new updates for this race. Again MS bad luck give him dry race.


What you think is irrelevant. They had updates, but decided against it, like everyone else on the grid. It has been said several times that the basic direction of in-season development is totally altered after the fly-aways, because this year's Pirelli.


#497 SeanValen

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:48

It once again confirmed they have not enough downforce in high speed corners. They are not competitive on such tracks and today we can't blame high track temperatures for the lack of competitiveness.




Some positives.

Two reliable weekends for Schumacher in a row. Make your current stuff reliable.
One podium, one wet gamble that could of paid off. Points taken off Mclaren and Williams-who have won races this year-worth a menstion.

Schumacher continuing his season form-solid weekend-a inform Schumacher.



A long season, approaching half way, many winners, anything can happen.

#498 F1Champion

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:52

It once again confirmed they have not enough downforce in high speed corners. They are not competitive on such tracks and today we can't blame high track temperatures for the lack of competitiveness.


The car was moving around and sliding in the quick directional changing corners.

#499 Sakae

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 15:53

I do admire Michael's resolve - we will overcome! The man projects himself undestructible. My respect, more than ever for that.

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#500 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:02

What you think is irrelevant. They had updates, but decided against it, like everyone else on the grid. It has been said several times that the basic direction of in-season development is totally altered after the fly-aways, because this year's Pirelli.

Where they said that? I read the article about updates and I don't find such thing.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100934
They just decide against making any updates before understanding the tyres. They put monkey seat from Monaco. I don't find: we have updates ,but we will not use them?

Not the best pitstops, Nico lost 8 sec in second one:
http://184.106.145.7.....p Summary.pdf

Edited by ivand911, 08 July 2012 - 16:08.