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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#501 BigCHrome

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:08

This is one of the things that are really irking about this year's tyres. Softs should be reliably faster than hards and they almost never are this year except for quali, which just isn't right as far as the strategic options are concerned.


Why should the softs be faster? Last year the norm was wrong when the harder tires were garbage.

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#502 Pits

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 16:19

I do admire Michael's resolve - we will overcome! The man projects himself undestructible. My respect, more than ever for that.


:up:

#503 weston

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:23

Silverstone produced a subpar weekend for Merc and Rosberg but we could see a solid Schumacher. He is on the way to have a much better second half.

Edited by weston, 08 July 2012 - 17:25.


#504 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:25

They douldn't run updates on a expected wet weekend.


If it had rain, I suspect we may have seen a Alonso, Webber and Schumacher battle for the victory. Instead were thinking about a dry race which we didn't want, the circuit's characteristics for whatever reaoon wasn't one merc was looking forward to in the dry.

Michael has been on fire this weekend, and with so much rain, it didn't occur on the day it mattered the most, I think we lost out big time with no rain and Michael-was vintage form.


With Mclaren looking worse you must say and Pasto Mad Man meladoe, could be of been worse in the dry.


I think today we lost a chance to see Michael challenge for the win, instead like I've seen were discussing dry race, not ideal, kinda a lottery set up race. Silly weather.





Forgeting the negativity for a moment, consider this
They didn't bring updates to a expected wet weekend. Why bring updates to a wet testing session? A waste of resources. With gp weekends being test weekends, I think Mercedes didn't have a choice, but to work on their current configuration, the only thing that didn't work out and we knew it was the case, that it had to rain on race day.

The next race will be more of a indicator.


Merceeds beat Mclaren Mercedes, and if Mclaren-big team can get it wrong in the dry, it shows you can't just pick on mercedes as having issues, this is a complicated season which deserves patience and consideration in challenging times.

Forge aead, move forward, can't change the past. :smoking: :up:


+1

Sanity and patience. If Michael leaves im nevertheless glad he had a decent run. Ive come to realize that you cant please everyone and on top of that the other teams arent standing still.

Enstone did not forget how to build fast cars, Red Bull has arguably the best designer in F1 history and Mclaren and Ferrari are well ...Ferrari and Mclaren.

People now want Brawn's head served on a platter.. just like they wanted Domenicali and Whitmarsh. All they can do is get the people to do the job and provide the resources that are available and even that is tightly controlled from Stuttgart. Mercedes has decent designers working for them at the moment and i think the car is an improvement from last year (no more fighting with the steering like the past two years but people forget the other teams are not standing still.

The team decided to focus on setup this weekend instead of trying to test parts in the wet i really don't see why people are so up in arms. They were hoping for a wet race ... no rain .. suck it up and hope for an improvement next race.


Not to say you cant express disappointment but some on here are overdoing it now.


#505 ivand911

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:35

People now want Brawn's head served on a platter.. just like they wanted Domenicali and Whitmarsh. All they can do is get the people to do the job and provide the resources that are available and even that is tightly controlled from Stuttgart. Mercedes has decent designers working for them at the moment and i think the car is an improvement from last year (no more fighting with the steering like the past two years but people forget the other teams are not standing still.

I don't think team will look at it this way. After they finish 5th or 6th this season. I don't think they can catch Lotus, McLaren could be easier. So, 4th will be very very hard to get. This is where the money come from.


#506 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 17:59

I don't think team will look at it this way. After they finish 5th or 6th this season. I don't think they can catch Lotus, McLaren could be easier. So, 4th will be very very hard to get. This is where the money come from.



They have brains... unlike some on here to calculate the mitigating circumstances. You dont buy a skeleton team and become WCC in 3 years.. against established teams who already have been there done that MULTIPLE times... sorry it doesnt work that way.

#507 Sakae

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:05

Lotus..? Less resources, yet results are there, despite they aren't putting all goodies together well as yet.

#508 MaxisOne

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:10

Lotus..? Less resources, yet results are there, despite they aren't putting all goodies together well as yet.


Lotus has already been addressed. Less resources does not mean they forgot how to build a WCC/WDC car. Ferrari/RBR has budget to fix dogs and Mclaren have always been up there. Mercedes has to develop..to critical mass and that takes years .. not weeks or 1 season.

#509 Mestrades

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:30

Mercedes team will never be a top team this year. China's pace was an accumulation of positive factors that will not happen anymore. The team has decided to study the Pirelli tyres and to not develop the car and I think that this will condemn them on the misery (I predict 7th place on WCC). They have not ability to react like Ferrari, for example, that they have updated their car to the point of making a winning car. For me it is frustrating to see Michael in a pathetic car. Therefore, I prefer Michael retires this year because Mercedes will not give him a winning car ever. So, to return to competition will have been a bad decision for Michael, with no extra wins and a poor image because of the team

#510 F1Champion

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:42

The exhaust blowing hasn't really been developed and that's where Red Bull and Ferrari have stolen a march. McLaren and Mercedes haven't really developed theirs and they are falling back now.

#511 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 18:59

They have brains... unlike some on here to calculate the mitigating circumstances. You dont buy a skeleton team and become WCC in 3 years.. against established teams who already have been there done that MULTIPLE times... sorry it doesnt work that way.

stop trying to reason :)
people never take away the positives and don't want to see any improvement compared to last year's car.
unfortunately it's not enough :(

#512 SeanValen

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:06

The exhaust blowing hasn't really been developed and that's where Red Bull and Ferrari have stolen a march. McLaren and Mercedes haven't really developed theirs and they are falling back now.



F1 Champion Legend :up:
What's happening with exhaust blowing regulations next year? I remember reading something about clamp downs, in which case it's wise mercedes starts developing their car in another direction to benefit from post exhaust.

It could mean losing this year to redbull, but winningr another year and another year. Michael Schumacher is a confident guy, remember in 2010, he was talking about challenging for the title in 2011, despite bad weekends where he was nowhere. It's obviously a highly competitive field and not everything takes the time you want it too.

Alonso hasn' won a title since 2006, Hamilton 2007. They've won races/challenged, but talking about winning titles, Schumacher's last title in 2004 was just 2 years before Alonso's last title in 2006-a title schumacher himself came close too. So Schumacher has been in hunt with 2 teams and going for a 3rd, he has set himself up to achieve more. It is a different era though, and it's about teams who are built up already, Michael has picked a challenge,in a era of regulations he's not totally pleased with, but has adapted all the same. Remarkable professional.



Ross Brawn is a smart guy. With Schumacher, as long as the team has backing, I can see success, and success I think that has come so close at times this year, their not that far away, they are a year behind though because they got their structure in late, so it would make sense for everyone to continue to 2014-do or die effort. But then maybe the next race they win, and win again, it's still the longest season ever, approaching half way point! :smoking:

Edited by SeanValen, 08 July 2012 - 19:17.


#513 Jon83

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:15

They started the season well but really haven't moved forward IMO (bit like McLaren to an extent)

Car still seems to qualify relatively well but the race is a different story. I can't see them finishing higher than 5th or 6th in the WCC unless something radical happens with the car.

#514 SeanValen

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:28

They started the season well but really haven't moved forward IMO (bit like McLaren to an extent)

Car still seems to qualify relatively well but the race is a different story. I can't see them finishing higher than 5th or 6th in the WCC unless something radical happens with the car.



Jon Legend :up:



I think Schumacher/Rosberg/the team know certain tracks favor it's car characteristics, and this season will be about maximising those track potentials.

Monaco-Schumacher should of competed for the win or won-car suited it, he did his best, reliability failed him
Albert Park-track tyre boogie, 2 early to say/lottery first races with tyre catching everyone out


It shows how difficult it is to be not just strong, but have everything else fall into place on the weekend where your package can benefit.


This formula one, with it's no set up changes after qualifying/guess set up for sunday/no race sunday race warm up sessions as pre 2003 has so many elements that can go wrong.

Silverstone for example, with race day being dry, in the old 2003=pre regulations, the teams would of had time to change their set ups for the dry, at least what they be allowed to do, given very little dry running,yence more lottery with cars on green tracks/ltyre choices who knows at the start, elements like this have made current f1 more difficult in getting consistent results.

What Brawn was saying some months ago, about building a car that works in a bigger operating window for tyres is important, but which has negatives for other situations on track and ultimate speed in certain conditions. These tyres have taken the challenge to a level that the teams/drivers won't fully know at times, and when it's like that, I don't think it's so easy to condemn any team, how do we really know if its a one off or the team is suffering, a complex formula one turns more complex. :smoking:


Anyway I'm pissed it didn't rain, after all the work the teams/Schuey did for wet set up, 3rd quali, to have a dry race after that rain was annoying, and we knew what was coming, I blame the weather for our pain this time, not the team, they gambled on wet, others did, I was with them, and we got dry raced, sucked, Schumacher did his best. Life goes on.

In a way I kinda enjoyed this weekend because of the threat potentially posed by Schumacher in the rain. Back in 2010 early on, he was getting flak for having a tough time getting to grips with things, China 2010 came to mind especially. Alonso/WebberSchumacher in the rain/Hamilton was missing for mclaren strange reasons in the rain department with interes, it's perhaps a good sign mercedes can get one over mclaren, I think mercedes has strengths that will come to the surface,.

Remain calm, have a cup of korean ginseng tea, be patient, work hard and never give up. We will get there, 2010/2001 are over.

Forge ahead :up:

Edited by SeanValen, 08 July 2012 - 19:37.


#515 Sakae

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:36

Lotus has already been addressed. Less resources does not mean they forgot how to build a WCC/WDC car. Ferrari/RBR has budget to fix dogs and Mclaren have always been up there. Mercedes has to develop..to critical mass and that takes years .. not weeks or 1 season.

Old rule of thumb magic number used to be five years, although I am not so sure it’s applicable to today's conditions. Certain rules and developments are static, thus late-to-party team can catch up, and with some new rules, it's even for all. Where Mercedes got hurt badly IMO is through their honesty pertaining to last year’s RRA reductions, despite we haven't heard much about with the other leading (Tier 1) teams. Then, uncertainty over future - 2013 - probably doesn't supports unrelenting individual focus, as some might be thinking jumping the ship, but I do not want to be unfair to those, who give it all, and more. Finally, when all is done and counted, we still do not know who is actually in charge. On the paper, it is Norbert, but I see him more of an administrator, than The Operations. Too many chiefs and no Indians cliché come to mind. I actually expect some departures under whatever pretences.

Edited by Sakae, 08 July 2012 - 19:37.


#516 Skellen

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 19:43

Wonder what Daimlers shareholders will say at the end of season. MB is currently behind BMW and Audi in the global sales and is lacking in some areas, especially smaller city cars. They need resources to catch up and not so succesful formula one team(although in this season a maiden lap and victory came in) might be one of the first invests to cut in the budget.

#517 Tardis40

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 20:28

Car was slow. Looked like they had a lot of wing on. Probably would have been golden if it rained.


#518 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 20:50

This is the third race in a row now where Merc haven't had brilliant pace. Valencia result aside, the car was slow there too.

#519 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 20:57

Why should the softs be faster? Last year the norm was wrong when the harder tires were garbage.


Although it's not quite on topic, if I recall correctly last year in most races we had stops in the soft+soft+hard configuration, while it's starting to look more like hard+hard+soft this year. My instincts tell me that I want to favor the faster tyre to the slower tyre and give the guy taking a risk with a less durable tyre a strategic reward. As it stands, the only difference is between used tyre and fresh tyre and you can't do what Hamilton tried to do today with much success, because the soft just doesn't give you an advantage.

I mean really, Grosjean drove all the race on hards basically, but he didn't lose any time against guys on softs, which allowed him his good result. Not to mention that Alonso was easily faster than Webber in their respective first stints, although the Spaniard had hards on and the Australian softs.

Our problem remains how to get these tyres to work properly under all conditions but I'm curious to experience a normal weekend in Germany or Hungary, so we can see if MGP still have some qualifying speed. If it's there, then there's at least a glimmer of hope in the concept of making the tyres do the right thing in the race. If it's not, well then Mercedes definitely have a speed problem.

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#520 rt99

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 21:16

I don't think they have any new updates for this race. Again MS bad luck give him dry race.


Nothing to do with luck, he gambled on a wet race just like in the old days that gave him his reputation.
The season in which he retired, he was lapped in the wet by Alonso and broke his own suspension. It wasn't all good, he flopped several times in wet races.


#521 sharo

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 21:24

I am afraid MB are going to inherit the title "Masters of planned failure" from BMW.

#522 Kingshark

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 21:54

The only positive thing from this race is that Mercedes didn't look any worse, if not better than Mclaren today.

Hockenheim has few fast corners and is all about traction. I expect a better performance from the team there.

#523 ivand911

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:59

Nothing to do with luck, he gambled on a wet race just like in the old days that gave him his reputation.
The season in which he retired, he was lapped in the wet by Alonso and broke his own suspension. It wasn't all good, he flopped several times in wet races.

When I said luck , I mean two days with very strong showers and on the third day sunshine, when everyone expected rain. Didn't seem like big gamble to me.
We miss good opportunity to see him against Alonso in rain conditions.
About the season he retire - he can't win all wet races. And I doubt he was the reason to be lapped. Still he won enough of them to be a Rain master.

Edited by ivand911, 09 July 2012 - 07:04.


#524 JensonWDC

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:29

I thought this team would improve with the arrival of Costa and Willis, instead they go backwards? :confused:

#525 MSchumi

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 11:55

It wasn't all good, he flopped several times in wet races.

No one has a perfect track record when it comes to wet races. Even the greatest can make mistakes in rain (heck, Senna had his fair share of those as well - Spain 92, for example, don't remember how many times he spun!). But that's exactly what distinguishes the greats such as Schumacher and Senna from the others - they search for the limit in the wet like one else, and while mostly it produces an awe-inspiring result, sometimes the limit gets crossed.

#526 schubacca

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:43

I thought this team would improve with the arrival of Costa and Willis, instead they go backwards? :confused:


In all fairness, nobody knows what the heck is going on in F1 this season.

Mclaren started strong and now are floundering. Ferrari started off looking weak but now are solid....

There are so many variables for success..... I think that Costa and Willis are not liabilities however.

#527 kyriakos75

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:55

Nothing to do with luck, he gambled on a wet race just like in the old days that gave him his reputation.
The season in which he retired, he was lapped in the wet by Alonso and broke his own suspension. It wasn't all good, he flopped several times in wet races.


Alonso was using different tires in that race, all Bridgestone cars were struggling and MS was lapped only after having to stop for a front wing change but please, don't allow such minor details to distract your thought.

#528 Urawa

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:41

current situation @ MAMG

http://www.auto-moto...to-5155511.html

http://translate.goo...e...tml&act=url

#529 schumimercamg

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 19:44

current situation @ MAMG

http://www.auto-moto...to-5155511.html

http://translate.goo...e...tml&act=url



I'm not sure I like the sound of that.

#530 BigCHrome

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 20:56

Hockenheim should be good for the car. Only 2 fast corners and a lot of traction zones.

#531 BetaVersion

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 21:06

Just would like to say this team is a joke and the car is horrible. The car was very good, at least on qualifying, untill Bahrain. Then, they had only average perfomances, Monaco apart(which might have been more down to the drivers than to the car itself).

As was the case with 2010 and 2011 cars, they blatantly lacks downforce and high speed corners kills them. As I expected, the car was simply pathetic in Silverstone. I think only STR had worse race pace.

Everytime MSC and Rosberg were being shown on tv, they were the leaders of a train or were holding, at least, a single car. Schumacher holding Massa/Vettel/Kimi/Maldonado/Hamilton/Perez exposed how the car have considerable less pace than all those cars.

Schumacher only finished 7th because of: an outstanding qualifying performance which putted the car way far up where it belonged; Perez and Maldonado crashing into each other when both had way faster cars than W03; Kobayashi's mistake in the pit, and he even had grid penalty which made him start very far behind but still would finish ahead of MSC without pit incident; Hamilton's error in strategy; Button's Q1 lack of luck when Glock brought a yellow and forced Jenson to start to far behind.

Grosjean started 9th, crashed in the first lap, had an early pit/compromised strategy and still confortably finished ahead of MSC(who did a brilliant job in such a car).

Nico was dysmal, but I'm sure the car was the major responsible for it.

:down:

#532 Kingshark

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:59

Mercedes were no worse than Mclaren in Silverstone. Michael even overtook Lewis on-track in the latter half of the race on equal tyres. I also firmly believe Nico would've finished at least in the points if it weren't for his pit incident. The car was disappointing, no doubt, but not as bad as some are trying to make out of it.

Remember, this is still the same team that designed the brilliant BGP-001; and now we also have Bell, Willis, and Costa. Let's keep faith people.

Hockenheim should be much better for the car. The track is all about traction, and there are only 2 fast corners. Also, it's generally cold in South Germany at this time of the year (it's currently 17° and cloudy). We will be better there, maybe not good enough to fight for a podium; but still better than Silverstone.

Edited by Kingshark, 11 July 2012 - 06:59.


#533 ivand911

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:13

And in that time Michael is getting older.

#534 Diablobb81

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:20

Also it's not clear if Michael's bad second stint was due to the car or a bad set of tires

Edited by Diablobb81, 11 July 2012 - 07:21.


#535 ali.unal

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:25

In today's standards, it is not tasteful to start a race 3rd on the grid and finish in a lowly 7th without any major strategy error or pit-stop drama. That was down to pure incompetitiveness of the car. Then again, there might not be a standard as we know in this year's championship given that how things could change in a matter of time just because of tyre usage. Mercedes is not fundamentally slow car. It has some weaknesses, but some strong aspects as well. It's a design philosophy that Mercedes is not good through fast corners, eventhough Red Bull seems to be a very good car on every type of circuits reflected by Monaco and British GP wins.

Anyway, what I find mildly worrying that Mercedes' choice of focusing more on tyre development rather than aerodynamic refinements. Aero is still the king in F1, so even if Mercedes masters the tyre usage, I'm not sure if they will be competitive without any significant aero upgrades. Other teams started to understand tyres and according to AMuS Red Bull, Ferrari, Sauber, Lotus and Williams might have "cracked" the code. When Mercedes does it, it could have been late and other teams might have been better than Merc aerowise. We have 11 races to see if they are on top of it or not.

#536 1Devil1

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:50

Mercedes were no worse than Mclaren in Silverstone. Michael even overtook Lewis on-track in the latter half of the race on equal tyres. I also firmly believe Nico would've finished at least in the points if it weren't for his pit incident. The car was disappointing, no doubt, but not as bad as some are trying to make out of it.

Remember, this is still the same team that designed the brilliant BGP-001; and now we also have Bell, Willis, and Costa. Let's keep faith people.

Hockenheim should be much better for the car. The track is all about traction, and there are only 2 fast corners. Also, it's generally cold in South Germany at this time of the year (it's currently 17° and cloudy). We will be better there, maybe not good enough to fight for a podium; but still better than Silverstone.


South is normally the hottest region Germany and in July you normally have a good chance of a sunny day. We have a lot of weather changes right now - the summer really didn't start. Nevertheless I wouldn't put my money on a cold race day it will be rather hot to be honest. I have no hope that mercedes will be fighting for good positions since bahrain their way off the pace. Only monaco with its atypical layout suited them

#537 KiloWatt

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:00

It's a strange car this. I really do believe that deep within the W03 is a fast car trying to get out. I consider China a 1-2 for merc, as MS should have been up there as well. And you don't do that with a slow car.

But I do think it's a misunderstood car, as far as it's engineers are concerned (and bloody certainly as far as some fans are concerned). As things stand, it appears that it has to run with a lot of compromises to keep the tyres together (and it's barely managing that while falling victim to the ultra competitive midfield). Which is why I believe the lightning qualifying results of the first couple of races have disappeared.

My real beef is the fact that the team appears to have made a car with a hair fine setup window. Again. But always the optimist, I think we should see how the W04 goes when Willis and Costa really get to flex their engineering muscles. This year they inherited problems not of their own making. We saw this with Bell last year as well. He couldn't do a whole lot to improve the W02, but the W03 seems closer to the front and managed to be the fastest car on 2 occasions this year (so far). Something that neither the W01 or W02 could manage. Its not much when compared to the likes of Red Bull, Ferrari or lately Lotus. But it's a lot better than the W02. Progress is progress.

#538 ivand911

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 12:20

I don't know what is the weather in Silverstone (for next 2 days), but why Mercedes is not testing tomorrow? It seems like good opportunity to test on the problematic track. Every in season testing is good. What is the point to test after Abu Dhabi?
It is not like they don't have any problems. They probably don't have updates to test?

Edited by ivand911, 11 July 2012 - 12:22.


#539 CoolBreeze

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 13:06

It's hard to say who is on top at the moment. One thing i realize is the tyre factor. That's probably catching most people out.

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#540 BetaVersion

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 17:35

Car was slow. Looked like they had a lot of wing on. Probably would have been golden if it rained.

I can't check the race best sectors now, but if MSC was with wet setup, ie, more wing, he should have done well in S2, in those fast corners.

Nothing to do with luck, he gambled on a wet race just like in the old days that gave him his reputation.
The season in which he retired, he was lapped in the wet by Alonso and broke his own suspension. It wasn't all good, he flopped several times in wet races.

omg, what a bunch of nonsense and stupidity in one post.

Firstly, Schumacher's reputation started way back the parc feme rules. Nobody gambled on dry/wet setups untill 2003. Schumacher was genuinely mighty in the rain, as in the dry.

Schumacher was lapped by Alonso in the wet, in 2006, because everybody was fully aware, back then, that Michelin wet tires were way better than Bridgestones.

Welcome to my ignore's list Schumacher hater, and thank me for that because with such nonsense that you write, you would eventually get banned, with a report.

Edited by BetaVersion, 11 July 2012 - 17:51.


#541 BetaVersion

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 17:45

Mercedes were no worse than Mclaren in Silverstone. Michael even overtook Lewis on-track in the latter half of the race on equal tyres. I also firmly believe Nico would've finished at least in the points if it weren't for his pit incident. The car was disappointing, no doubt, but not as bad as some are trying to make out of it.

Remember, this is still the same team that designed the brilliant BGP-001; and now we also have Bell, Willis, and Costa. Let's keep faith people.


MSC only overtook Lewis, back, because Mclaren screwed the strategy and did a very brief second stint, which left Lewis with very old tires for his last stint. MSC only was faster than Lewis in the end because he was using way newer tirers.

Nico was never anywhere near points. Even with all faster cars making mistakes(Kobayashi, Perez, Maldonado), a point's finish would be out of reach for Nico as Button was only 10th and he would finish ahead of Nico even without pit problem

About the "brilliant BGP001", they only won things because of an illegal device called DDD. Plus, the car was designed using 500M euro of Honda's money and they used 2 full scale windtunnels, 24hours/7days-a-week/ during 2008 designing that car. Once all cars got their own DDDs, BGP became a midfielder. BMW, Toyota, Ferrari, Mclaren(not to mention Red Bull) were all faster than Brawn GP, by the end of the year.

#542 Massa_f1

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 17:53

MSC only overtook Lewis, back, because Mclaren screwed the strategy and did a very brief second stint, which left Lewis with very old tires for his last stint. MSC only was faster than Lewis in the end because he was using way newer tirers.

Nico was never anywhere near points. Even with all faster cars making mistakes(Kobayashi, Perez, Maldonado), a point's finish would be out of reach for Nico as Button was only 10th and he would finish ahead of Nico even without pit problem

About the "brilliant BGP001", they only won things because of an illegal device called DDD. Plus, the car was designed using 500M euro of Honda's money and they used 2 full scale windtunnels, 24hours/7days-a-week/ during 2008 designing that car. Once all cars got their own DDDs, BGP became a midfielder. BMW, Toyota, Ferrari, Mclaren(not to mention Red Bull) were all faster than Brawn GP, by the end of the year.


Exactly. People seem to forget that Brawn was only the fastest car for the first 7 races. After that they were well caught by the chasing pack.

They never seem to want to develop the car. They will end up paying the price. I am certain in normal racing conditions they are only the 7th best team at the majority of tracks.

If Pastor stops taking people out the results will show this.

#543 ivand911

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 18:22

MSC only overtook Lewis, back, because Mclaren screwed the strategy and did a very brief second stint, which left Lewis with very old tires for his last stint. MSC only was faster than Lewis in the end because he was using way newer tirers.

I don't think so. RG has even longer stint than Lewis , but his pace was much better. Older tyres were not the problem, just McLaren was not fast enough. Michael was faster then.
Even if they have the same length of the last stint , the situation would be the same.
http://en.mclarenf-1.....ewis Hamilton
http://en.mclarenf-1.....ewis Hamilton


#544 sharo

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 20:54

Ivan, you can't compare Lotus tyre usage to that of MGP and Mac. That day I think McLaren simply had wrong setup. Maybe expecting a wet race they went that direction even more than MGP.

#545 BetaVersion

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 21:52

Ivan, you can't compare Lotus tyre usage to that of MGP and Mac.

:up:

#546 ivand911

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:48

Ivan, you can't compare Lotus tyre usage to that of MGP and Mac. That day I think McLaren simply had wrong setup. Maybe expecting a wet race they went that direction even more than MGP.

What tyre usage? :D They both started with 1:37 and finish in 1:37? First 6-7 laps were pretty similar. After that RG managed much better lap times. Lewis didn't. I don't think that if they(MS and Lewis) have equal long stints with MS, results would be different. Michael would finish ahead again. That result was not because of wrong strategy or long stint for Lewis. Michael was faster than McLaren. As RG was faster than MS even with much longer last stint.

Edited by ivand911, 12 July 2012 - 07:51.


#547 sharo

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 08:15

... As RG was faster than MS even with much longer last stint.

Thtat's tyre usage

#548 korzeniow

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 09:35

Posted Image

#549 sharo

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 13:32

Can you post a link to a larger image? I'd like to place it as my wallpaper.

#550 korzeniow

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Posted 14 July 2012 - 13:46

Can you post a link to a larger image? I'd like to place it as my wallpaper.


Here's bigger version of the image http://www.formula1..../d12gbr1695.jpg

Other candidate fot a wallpaper: http://www.formula1....2/d12gbr884.jpg

I didn't recall to contribute some useful content here in this thread for a long time :lol:

Edited by korzeniow, 14 July 2012 - 13:48.