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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#901 Scotracer

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:40

The issues for Michael in the race were HIS fault. Let's not start blaming the rest of the team.

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#902 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:43

The issues for Michael in the race were HIS fault. Let's not start blaming the rest of the team.


Right. But I hardly care any more.


#903 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:46

The issues for Michael in the race were HIS fault. Let's not start blaming the rest of the team.


Are you kidding me? A modern forumla one car has a anti-stall system. When did you see the last time a driver stalled his engine? Mercedes skrewed his start and took a pitstop for nothing at the second lap. 50% of his race problems were the mistakes of his "special crew"

#904 Scotracer

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:48

Are you kidding me? A modern forumla one car has a anti-stall system. When did you see the last time a driver stalled his engine? Mercedes skrewed his start and took a pitstop for nothing at the second lap. 50% of his race problems were the mistakes of his "special crew"


Michael said he turned the engine off.

Also, the anti-stall system is just activating the clutch...on the grid, Michael would already have the clutch engaged so it would have done nothing.



#905 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 12:53

Michael said he turned the engine off.

Also, the anti-stall system is just activating the clutch...on the grid, Michael would already have the clutch engaged so it would have done nothing.


Until now we no nothing about the start incident. There is no information at Amus or others sources.
Michael didn't say it was his mistake or he stalled the engine

#906 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 13:10

Until now we no nothing about the start incident. There is no information at Amus or others sources.
Michael didn't say it was his mistake or he stalled the engine



he did. I guess he doesn't give a sxxt either.

Edited by Szoelloe, 29 July 2012 - 13:11.


#907 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 13:49

Good job Nico, he get a point.

F1PitRadio ‏@F1PitRadio
Rosberg's tire temps are decreasing, so told to increase "lateral sliding" to increase temps. Sliding OK cuz only couple more laps remain

#908 RedBaron

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 13:57

1 point from this weekend. Lotus were 2nd and 3rd... Oh dear.

#909 Atonal

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 13:59

Was something wrong on Schumacher's car? Are teams allowed to retire cars without any specific reason?

#910 Urawa

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:05

That´ll be some looooooong second half of the season.
Looks like they´re not even allowed to change the exhaust config, so where should a big jump come from?

#911 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:06

Was something wrong on Schumacher's car? Are teams allowed to retire cars without any specific reason?


He turned the car of because of overheating problems at the start. As I said wait and see. It was not his fault because of stalling the engine. He had the changed a flat tire in the second lap. Bad luck must be his second name this year so far. Poor Michael

#912 Schumacher7

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:10

Was something wrong on Schumacher's car? Are teams allowed to retire cars without any specific reason?

Of course they are, nobody is forcing them to race, although they have to show there is a legitimate problem if they wish to take a new gearbox in Spa.

#913 kyriakos75

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:17

He turned the car of because of overheating problems at the start. As I said wait and see. It was not his fault because of stalling the engine. He had the changed a flat tire in the second lap. Bad luck must be his second name this year so far. Poor Michael


He said over team radio that he switched off the engine because of yellow flags. Then he said something like 'when yellow lights come on, that means stop'.

#914 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:30

Of course they are, nobody is forcing them to race, although they have to show there is a legitimate problem if they wish to take a new gearbox in Spa.

The real reason for retiring. No penalty.


#915 Spa95

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:31

He said over team radio that he switched off the engine because of yellow flags. Then he said something like 'when yellow lights come on, that means stop'.

That hasn't been the case for a few years now. I think even as far back as 2006... :well:

#916 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:35

He said over team radio that he switched off the engine because of yellow flags. Then he said something like 'when yellow lights come on, that means stop'.


He said something different in the rtl interview. Because of the delay of the start the temperature raised and he turned of the engine to protect it from overheating

#917 dav115

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:37

I wonder if there's some confusion going on between the yellow lights on the gantry (which to be honest surprised me because I thought that aborted starts were signalled by just the green lights), and maybe a yellow temperature warning light in the car?

#918 Slowinfastout

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:38

The engineer told him to kill the car.

#919 ivand911

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:44

The engineer told him to kill the car.

But, he didn't give him a shotgun? :p


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#920 jstrains

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:45

I hope Michael's 300th race in Spa will be better for him!

#921 RedBaron

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:47

Schumi turned the engine off by himself, from his own direction. He misunderstood the lights.

Confirmed by Kravitz on Sky from the Mercedes press office.

Edited by RedBaron, 29 July 2012 - 14:47.


#922 rog

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:49

In the end the start issue doesn't matter really. He was never able to match Rosbergs pace this race, points finish impossible for him.

#923 BetaVersion

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:50

I think Mercedes deserve some little credit today. Their compromise really worked! This was one of the few times of the year that they weren't slower than Sauber/Williams, along China and Monaco

#924 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 14:55

They were slower than one Williams...

#925 BetaVersion

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 15:11

They were slower than one Williams...

Senna started from better position....

Nico had quite a pace there. Maldonado was never close to him and he was always pushing the FI in front of him, in the first stint. The pace was decent today, imo.

#926 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 15:44

The W03 is not the car everyone wanted to believe at the beginning of the season. The basic opinion was that this car is quick out of the box - a much better basis than his predecessor. In my humble opinion this car showed only one race weekend that it is capable of being a front runner. In China Merc had the advantage that the temperature were perfect, Rosberg was on fire and the track suited the car the most. I have the feeling that Merc real performance was varnished by their SuperDRS in the first races and the lottery of the pirelli tires. After the top teams understood the whole situation Mercedes went back to their standard position and even further back in the last races. I can't see that the W03 is a better car. It eats tire like hell, is aerodynamic inefficient and can't be developed. We went to far with our hopes after the china performance. But the W03 is not better than the W02. Mercedes had luck with the situations in the first races. Some posters mentioned pirelli is the reason Mercedes suffers - I am sure it the other way round. Pirelli gave them the opportunity to get a lucky win like Williams. It mades me angry Michael had this bad luck streak at the beginning would have been nice to see him more than once on the podium

Edited by 1Devil1, 29 July 2012 - 15:45.


#927 Sakae

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 15:48

Schumi turned the engine off by himself, from his own direction. He misunderstood the lights.

Confirmed by Kravitz on Sky from the Mercedes press office.

Then you are both wrong.

#928 Jon83

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 16:00

Said before, they started the season well but have gone seriously backwards. The next two circuits may suit them but really, only in qualifying.

#929 Fildischum

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 16:03

Honestly, i dont believe anymore that a certain track would suit the w03. Just look at canada, hockenheim and budapest that were supposedly suits our car but it never did. Only hope i have is a c spec car with working updates.

#930 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 16:04

Said before, they started the season well but have gone seriously backwards. The next two circuits may suit them but really, only in qualifying.


I am arguing they never had the pace. The normalized circumstances with pirelli are a clear indicator

#931 schumimercamg

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 16:31

Well done Ros for getting a point in this shitbox.

#932 KiloWatt

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 16:47

The engineer told him to kill the car.


Damn right, put it out of it's misery... It would be a kindness.

Edited by KiloWatt, 29 July 2012 - 16:47.


#933 Slowinfastout

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 16:51

Seriously though, I'm sure I heard that said on the radio in the quick montage they showed after the race on Sky.. It was literally 'kill the car' too..

Maybe that was when MSC retired but pretty sure I didn't dream that up.

#934 RedBaron

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 17:19

Then you are both wrong.


Just passing on the message from the Sky broadcast... don't shoot the messenger! If anyone has a YouTube clip that'd be great.

Edited by RedBaron, 29 July 2012 - 17:20.


#935 RealRacing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 17:41

I bet Mercedes are already thinking about pulling the plug on this project, even as quickly as the next 2 seasons. Rosberg must be thinking of a way to enforce his performance clause and MS seriously about re-retiring...

#936 KiloWatt

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 17:46

Hmmmm...how does one say this. Though I'm an absolutely massive fan of the team and the brand as a whole, they really are embarrassing themselves right now.

In all seriousness, I really wonder of the management aren't a little too forgiving. When McLaren fell behind, they had an emergency meeting and you know what? Shit got done, thats what. Ferrari started in a pretty poor position, but they dug themselves out of it. Same goes for Lotus, same for Red Bull. Why not Merc? It really does break my heart and to circle back to my question, is the management too forgiving of bad results? Why am I not seeing emegency meetings?

Another thing, why does it seem to me, that this team is always trying to be smartarses? And I'm thinking of launching a 'vanilla spec' W02. With a short wheelbase and a high CG. The "we're focusing on the tyres" line we got from them. The DDRS. The blade roll hoop. All good and well, but to what end? It's not always neccesary to think outside the box, sometimes the answer is right in front of you. We're talking of experienced people here, that have decadeS of experience trying to be clever?

I wonder if this team isn't in need of a good ol tongue lashing from Dr Z to put the fear of God back into them.

Now, please don't label me a hater or complainer or some such. I adore the brand. And ofcourse I know we don't know what's said behind closed doors. And yes, hindsight and all that. We're talking about the most clever engineers on the planet. I'm an engineer myself, I know the world is not a linear place and I get the reasoning behind their ideas. But when you step back and look at the situation, it would take a masochistic optimist to not realise 'It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck", regardless of the reasons given. Teams with lesser budgets and lower profile staff are managing ok.

Ha, but come next race, you know who I'll be rooting for! :stoned:

#937 Carlo's

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 18:08

The question is...will MGP remain ahead of Sauber? Williams has rather no chances to catch Merc. I don't know why this team can't get the things together - team is strong, money is there, people are there, drivers are good...They are falling apart like crazy, I thought at the beginning of the season that they will be battling hard with Lotus, but now even 5th position in WCC for them is not safe. Merc in the mire.

#938 Sakae

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 18:18

Post race interview by whole team, they sounded little better than my afternoon is.

#939 RealRacing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 19:26

Hmmmm...how does one say this. Though I'm an absolutely massive fan of the team and the brand as a whole, they really are embarrassing themselves right now.

In all seriousness, I really wonder of the management aren't a little too forgiving. When McLaren fell behind, they had an emergency meeting and you know what? Shit got done, thats what. Ferrari started in a pretty poor position, but they dug themselves out of it. Same goes for Lotus, same for Red Bull. Why not Merc? It really does break my heart and to circle back to my question, is the management too forgiving of bad results? Why am I not seeing emegency meetings?

Another thing, why does it seem to me, that this team is always trying to be smartarses? And I'm thinking of launching a 'vanilla spec' W02. With a short wheelbase and a high CG. The "we're focusing on the tyres" line we got from them. The DDRS. The blade roll hoop. All good and well, but to what end? It's not always neccesary to think outside the box, sometimes the answer is right in front of you. We're talking of experienced people here, that have decadeS of experience trying to be clever?

I wonder if this team isn't in need of a good ol tongue lashing from Dr Z to put the fear of God back into them.

Now, please don't label me a hater or complainer or some such. I adore the brand. And ofcourse I know we don't know what's said behind closed doors. And yes, hindsight and all that. We're talking about the most clever engineers on the planet. I'm an engineer myself, I know the world is not a linear place and I get the reasoning behind their ideas. But when you step back and look at the situation, it would take a masochistic optimist to not realise 'It walks like a duck and quacks like a duck", regardless of the reasons given. Teams with lesser budgets and lower profile staff are managing ok.

Ha, but come next race, you know who I'll be rooting for! :stoned:


I would like to add to your points: have you noticed how at the beginning of every season so far they have said something like, "this is a long term project so we are not too worried, we can't fight at the top but we are learning". Well, it seems to me that may be valid during the 1st season, maybe the 2nd, but not anymore. This attitude has always seemed too relaxed to me, even more considering they didn't start from zero. Mercedes, the brand, can't afford a mediocre team much longer so I hope they get their act together if we want to see the Star present in F1.

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#940 eoin

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 19:45

The team has struggled here in the past, even when they were known as Brawn. The next few races should suit the car a bit better- well unless they struggle at the Parabolica as it's a long medium-to-fast corner which is where is why they struggled this weekend.

Edited by eoin, 29 July 2012 - 19:47.


#941 kyriakos75

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 20:45

Just passing on the message from the Sky broadcast... don't shoot the messenger! If anyone has a YouTube clip that'd be great.


Team radio (audio only):

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0VK4BVKnHAX

Edited by kyriakos75, 29 July 2012 - 20:46.


#942 sharo

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 20:53

Team radio (audio only):

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0VK4BVKnHAX

Thanks but my spoken English practice has gone too low, I couldn't understand almost anything. Someone to help?

#943 swiniodzik

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 21:07

http://www.auto-moto...en-5314479.html

Fundamental design flaw\issue reason for struggle.
Team unable to improve situation with current setup options and without rebuilding the car.


Excessive under-steer in the long corners that they can't dial out, ouch. Just when there were some signs that this team might have finally shaken off the old Honda demon of mediocrity, they come with this current flop. I can't help thinking something has to be fundamentally wrong somewhere in their process of modelling the car in the CFD and wind-tunnel. Balance issues, tyre issues, cooling issues, slow development - they have technical problems everywhere and constantly. The likes of Bell and Willis better earn their money with next year's car otherwise it will probably end like with BMW.

#944 1Devil1

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 21:23

Thanks but my spoken English practice has gone too low, I couldn't understand almost anything. Someone to help?


I am not a native. But I understood:

He (Michael) said he turned off the engine because of the yellow flag. Team tells him to come to the pits to start there. Michael answers perplex he thought yellow flag "means stop"

#945 packapoo

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 21:46

I think Mercedes deserve some little credit today. Their compromise really worked! This was one of the few times of the year that they weren't slower than Sauber/Williams, along China and Monaco


I had to read your post again.
Had a sarcasm filter malfunction on the first pass. :rotfl:

#946 schumimercamg

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 22:11

Excessive under-steer in the long corners that they can't dial out, ouch. Just when there were some signs that this team might have finally shaken off the old Honda demon of mediocrity, they come with this current flop. I can't help thinking something has to be fundamentally wrong somewhere in their process of modelling the car in the CFD and wind-tunnel. Balance issues, tyre issues, cooling issues, slow development - they have technical problems everywhere and constantly. The likes of Bell and Willis better earn their money with next year's car otherwise it will probably end like with BMW.


Fing fantastic. Faceplam Mercedes.

#947 BetaVersion

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 22:22

I had to read your post again.
Had a sarcasm filter malfunction on the first pass. :rotfl:

I don't know if you follow my posts here, but I have long been saying that this car is average. I'm not surprised like some fellow members are right now. I was honestly impressed by Nico's pace because I was expecting them to be slower than all team, bar STR

#948 rog

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 22:28

I am not a native. But I understood:

He (Michael) said he turned off the engine because of the yellow flag. Team tells him to come to the pits to start there. Michael answers perplex he thought yellow flag "means stop"



He said something different in the rtl interview. Because of the delay of the start the temperature raised and he turned of the engine to protect it from overheating



So he lied to the press (RTL)?


BTW: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101635

Schumacher was tyring to start from P19 instead P17 which caused the restart.

#949 Tardis40

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 22:33

If there was confusion, point the finger at Michael's race engineer. It's his job to keep the driver informed.

I can't imagine Michael wanting to endure another season racing for these amateurs. It's go to a better team or go home.


#950 RealRacing

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Posted 29 July 2012 - 22:34

Maybe it would be better to associate with Sauber a-la BMW some time ago. With the $$ they have put into the former Honda/Brawn, maybe they would now be much better as Sauber-Mercedes, especially since I suspect that Sauber's points/budget ratio is higher than Mercedes'.