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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#1101 jjpm

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 15:43

I wish we would know whether he speculates, or he really has reliable inside source. Trouble with this is, if Mercedes would really care, they can hire quietly inestigatiors, and it dosen't take too much to find who has leaked the info. (It's important for other matters in the future as well to plug the hole). Now think about it; you are probably well paid, sitting in a nice room, leading comfortable life, and you would risk it all that you will destroy your career just because some blogger wanted to be first with the news?

It doesn't make any sense (at least not to me).
Conclusion - there is no leak, but a lot of guessing, which at the end when suits come out, may or may not be proven as correct one.



In any case this is not some random blogger with a lot of imagination... But you should know that members of specialized press often, if not always, share their infos between them , their best way to ensure that the info is solid, before publishing and then decide which one of them will be the first to publish it (getting credit for a scoop).

Edited by jjpm, 16 August 2012 - 15:45.


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#1102 Sakae

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:02

In any case this is not some random blogger with a lot of imagination... But you should know that members of specialized press often, if not always, share their infos between them , their best way to ensure that the info is solid, before publishing and then decide which one of them will be the first to publish it (getting credit for a scoop).

It is not my intention to offend anyone, I assure you, but there are some problems with such "news". If the decision was reached, we would know now, and there is no need for special meeting next week to ... (fill the blanks: ratify, decide, approve budget, approve adjusted strategy, etc.). If I am not mistaken, it is Sales and Marketing who are responsible for F1 budget at Mercedes. VP would merely inform others in most polite manner, but it's his budget after all. Dr. Zetsche, a strong proponent of racing, will want to have it explained, especially if there are legal aspects that could prevent their continuation. It could be as simple as issues with time-line. Court case is open, Mercedes is left hanging on legal grounds, yet FOM is pushing for CA to be signed, now. There are myriad of issues we do not know about.

Deductive reasoning from the people standing in the front of building is in full swing.

Edited by Sakae, 16 August 2012 - 16:05.


#1103 jjpm

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:18

Whatever suits you... :)

#1104 Sakae

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:26

Can we have a link and read it?

#1105 Slowinfastout

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:40

Can we have a link and read it?


Of course you can! :p

This is what happened when Toyota pulled out in 2009 and Ecclestone says "if you had said to me the week before any of those big companies left, I would have said 'I can't see them leaving'. And what happens? You pick up the newspaper and find out that they have gone."

#1106 jjpm

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 16:57

them links?
http://blog.autoplus...curie-mercedes/
http://www.autohebdo...a...e=195&cur=2

#1107 Sakae

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 17:04

Wasn't Mr. Sylt once a member of this BB? I could be wrong. The article is dated May 15, 2012. That's three months ago, and lot of water under the bridge is gone since then. Negotiating strategy made (on FOM side) some assumptions which may or may not be proven as correct. One of the false one could be, they (Stuttgart) need us more than we need them. More useful and pragmatic one would be IMO, we complement each other nicely, lets work together for benefit of both parties.

Edited by Sakae, 16 August 2012 - 17:07.


#1108 Slowinfastout

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 17:49

Sylt is not the most reliable source ever, but what can't be questioned is that he is directly used by Ecclestone whenever something has to come out.

I know it's an old story, but considering all that has happened since then, I feel there is no smoke without fire.

#1109 KiloWatt

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 18:14

Sylt is not the most reliable source ever, but what can't be questioned is that he is directly used by Ecclestone whenever something has to come out.

I know it's an old story, but considering all that has happened since then, I feel there is no smoke without fire.


Unfortunately I agree. I definitely think that something is going on. But I, for one, keep hope. What else can we do? In your anology, I think there's a fire and we're seeing the smoke. But I hope Dr Z and co are good firefighters.

The alternative is unimaginable, I'll have to start supporting McLaren again. :(

Edited by KiloWatt, 16 August 2012 - 18:15.


#1110 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 20:13

So the team will become privateer, again. Will Ross Brawn gonna still lead the team?

Last time I checked, he won WDC/WCC as privateer. Can he do it again?


Well he did have the thousands of design hours that Honda put in to help him, but it would be hilarious if Merc pulled out just as the car hit the sweet spot.

#1111 2ms

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 20:55

I wouldn't be surprised if they are pulling out. BMW pulled out when they were doing better than MGP is. I imagine Michael is likely ready to retire. But how will they be able to pull a top driver when they are such a lackluster team? They won't be able to. To me they look like they are stuck now and that it will be very hard to get out of midpack due to difficulty of acquiring the necessary talent (in engineering also) -- they no longer have the draw of being up-and-coming star. Mercedes is not a company that would have any interest in spending money to be a mid-pack F1 team. Not even Honda and Toyota were interested in that role, and Mercedes is a much higher prestige automotive mark than Honda or Toyota.

#1112 Clatter

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 21:14

I wouldn't be surprised if they are pulling out. BMW pulled out when they were doing better than MGP is. I imagine Michael is likely ready to retire. But how will they be able to pull a top driver when they are such a lackluster team? They won't be able to. To me they look like they are stuck now and that it will be very hard to get out of midpack due to difficulty of acquiring the necessary talent (in engineering also) -- they no longer have the draw of being up-and-coming star. Mercedes is not a company that would have any interest in spending money to be a mid-pack F1 team. Not even Honda and Toyota were interested in that role, and Mercedes is a much higher prestige automotive mark than Honda or Toyota.


If all the top seats are already filled then the next best drivers will be looking at the teams who have the most resources and therefore potential.

#1113 Slowinfastout

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 21:24

Rosberg is fine, he's still kinda unproven but that will remain until he gets a consistently good car.. also if they lose Mercedes the drivers will be the least of their problems.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 16 August 2012 - 21:26.


#1114 ali_M

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 00:48

Rosberg is fine, he's still kinda unproven but that will remain until he gets a consistently good car.. also if they lose Mercedes the drivers will be the least of their problems.


I don't know. For a young driver, Rosberg doesn't seem particularly driven to succeed. This is all relative of course since he's solidly in F1. He's a tad too happy go lucky from where I'm sitting. Some may say that he internalizes that side of him, but I don't buy that. Anyway....

Schumi has achieved so much and has come back from retirement. He will inevitably be different. More controlled and more deliberate. He may well be more of an asset than ever for the team.

#1115 Reinmuster

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:47

Well he did have the thousands of design hours that Honda put in to help him, but it would be hilarious if Merc pulled out just as the car hit the sweet spot.


Well he said that 2012 car was good enough to be the basis of 2013 car. Something fishy?

Did he has the plan to start developing 2014 car this early and surprise the field once again?




#1116 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 18:59

So the team will become privateer, again. Will Ross Brawn gonna still lead the team?

Last time I checked, he won WDC/WCC as privateer. Can he do it again?


You know full well that the car was developed by Honda with huge amounts of resources.

#1117 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 19:01

Yes, he claims to know the 'definitive conclusion' of next week's board meeting.


But doesn't know the name of the town of Mercedes HQ?

#1118 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 19:12

But doesn't know the name of the town of Mercedes HQ?


He does say Stuttgart :confused:

http://blog.autoplus...curie-mercedes/

Bonjour à toutes et tous .
Mauvaise nouvelles du coté de Stuttgart un changement radical chez Mercedes-Benz AMG, Mercedes-Benz redevient motoriste. Conclusion définitive après le prochain conseil d’administration semaine 34.


This is the guy btw, It's just my opinion but I think he's reliable.

https://twitter.com/Alpy06

Edited by Slowinfastout, 17 August 2012 - 19:16.


#1119 Sakae

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 19:28

My command of French language is rather embryotic, and I do not have access to his Twitter account, but my understanding from the excerpt is, that final decision on future of Mercedes Benz in F1 is due by the Mgt next week. Has Williams accepted FOM's terms? Initially in March they were sitting on the fence next to Merc.

Edited by Sakae, 17 August 2012 - 19:33.


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#1120 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 19:45

Yes, this is the same thing we discussed earlier, I just re-posted it and added the twitter account of the guy.

Basically, worded a bit differently what he says is that the decision is already made and the board will confirm that Mercedes will only remain as an engine supplier.

About Williams, who knows? their stance probably changed when Parr was shown the door, I think they got their candy and they are in.

About the CA, I think the elephant in the room is the FIA, not long ago Ecclestone was saying the teams could write the rule. That would indicate they were pretty damn far from a deal with the FIA.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100989

#1121 Sakae

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 19:54

If true, incredible amount of money was wasted. Any talk about F1 being frugal with some idiotic RRA in place amounts to slap in a face, nothing less. For me RBR, McLaren and SF have all lost credibility, if they had any to beggin with.

Edited by Sakae, 17 August 2012 - 19:57.


#1122 Clatter

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 20:16

If true, incredible amount of money was wasted. Any talk about F1 being frugal with some idiotic RRA in place amounts to slap in a face, nothing less. For me RBR, McLaren and SF have all lost credibility, if they had any to beggin with.


It's Merc who will be losing in the credibility stakes if they pullout. They can't make a winning car so throw in the towel, just like BMW did.

#1123 Slowinfastout

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 20:23

Assuming it really happens, I think it's premature to blame anyone. Bernie is incredibly ruthless, but there is a method to his madness. He selectively hands out gifts to the teams that are really committed to F1. The teams that are disposable or likely to pack up and leave at the slightest whiff don't deserve as big a slice of the pie. Mercedes are not happy with the deal they are getting, but they are about to demonstrate why the deal is like that in the first place...

Now, on top of that, if Mercedes have a problem with Ecclestone because of some silly reason like the Gribkowsky affair, that's basically their problem. Bernie is the same guy he was when Mercedes bought Brawn GP.
I just mention this because I've seen this raised a few times, personally I think this morality crap doesn't make much sense, especially if they stay associated with F1 as an engine supplier.

#1124 korzeniow

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 20:29

It's Merc who will be losing in the credibility stakes if they pullout. They can't make a winning car so throw in the towel, just like BMW did.


Actually BMW made winning car and built solid team. Because of 2009 campaign fiasco, embarrassment with KERS which they heavly advocated, embarrassment with abandoning 2008 campaign and tough times in automotive industry made them to decide to pull the plug.

Edited by korzeniow, 17 August 2012 - 20:33.


#1125 Sakae

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 01:42

Assuming it really happens, I think it's premature to blame anyone. Bernie is incredibly ruthless, but there is a method to his madness. He selectively hands out gifts to the teams that are really committed to F1. The teams that are disposable or likely to pack up and leave at the slightest whiff don't deserve as big a slice of the pie. Mercedes are not happy with the deal they are getting, but they are about to demonstrate why the deal is like that in the first place...

Now, on top of that, if Mercedes have a problem with Ecclestone because of some silly reason like the Gribkowsky affair, that's basically their problem. Bernie is the same guy he was when Mercedes bought Brawn GP.
I just mention this because I've seen this raised a few times, personally I think this morality crap doesn't make much sense, especially if they stay associated with F1 as an engine supplier.

Regarding Gribowski/BE affair, they might have genuine legal issue on their hands, regardless of track performance, or lack of thereof. German prosecutors haven't thrown towel in yet, and in certain scenario Mercedes-Benz could be prevented from doing business with (current) FOM. I do not know how it ends up, but risk of it happening is there. That's how I read one of the legal explanations. On engine supply side legal position (I think) is different, because its teams with whom Mercedes is conducting business, and not directly with FOM. I too am of opinion that this is not the only issue, the "new F1 structure" as it is rumored might have contributed to the discussion as well, and there could be a few other issues, because legitimate question is whether daily negative press headlines is actually good for general (road cars) business to beggin with.

At the end, why not wait a few days, and then we will know one way or another. Mud will undoubtedly fly, as apparently some people cannot be deprived of that pleasure, yet as much as I want the automaker to stay, its not my call on that.

#1126 packapoo

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 04:11

Sakae, you seem to be punting hard for the Mercedes team, so for that at least I have to give you a :up: .

However, don't let their 'morality' crap - Grib - fool you. It fools no-one else. A furphy it is. Pure and simple.

P.S. If you don't know what a furphy is, try Google.

#1127 Sakae

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:39

Sakae, you seem to be punting hard for the Mercedes team, so for that at least I have to give you a :up: .

However, don't let their 'morality' crap - Grib - fool you. It fools no-one else. A furphy it is. Pure and simple.

P.S. If you don't know what a furphy is, try Google.

We have nothing that we can do here, but time to wait.

#1128 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:36

He does say Stuttgart :confused:

http://blog.autoplus...curie-mercedes/


This is the guy btw, It's just my opinion but I think he's reliable.

https://twitter.com/Alpy06



OK, I didn't klick the link but went by what jjpm "quoted":

A user of his blog (Aloy06), known for his reliable informations from Stuggart, send us the following commentary:

Hello everyone,
Bad news from the Stuggart side, a radical change from Mercedes-Benz AMG, which will reverse to motorist only. Final word after the forecoming Board of Directors meeting taking place week 34.

ps while I do agree on the fiability of that person, I recall that he said that Michael would not be joining Mercedes in 2009! so...


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 18 August 2012 - 09:37.


#1129 Sakae

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:08

While it was not my intention to diminish jjpm's source credibility, for taking this kind of (any) pre-announcement news with reservation, inadvertently I probably offended him. If so, then I am sorry, and apologize for not choosing more appropriate language.

#1130 jjpm

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 00:35

Sakae, no offense taken... :)

However, some precisions :

1. Alpy06 is a long time friend and respected blogger on the blog of Jean-Louis Moncet (F1 journalist at Auto-Plus and French TV's TF1 analyst for GPs since 1990)
2. For Auto-Hebdo the Mercedes article was written by Patrick Camus. He's the technical specialist F1 for Auto-Hebdo since early 1970. He also wrote numerous books about F1.

Edited by jjpm, 19 August 2012 - 00:38.


#1131 Sakae

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 06:50

Sakae, no offense taken... :)

However, some precisions :

1. Alpy06 is a long time friend and respected blogger on the blog of Jean-Louis Moncet (F1 journalist at Auto-Plus and French TV's TF1 analyst for GPs since 1990)
2. For Auto-Hebdo the Mercedes article was written by Patrick Camus. He's the technical specialist F1 for Auto-Hebdo since early 1970. He also wrote numerous books about F1.

There are a few respected writers who specialize in F1 racing. One that I like for his neutral tone and great knowledge of racing is Heikki Kulta (Turun Sanomat/Findland). I read his articles in English, when available. It's pitty I cannot read reliably in French, because it would be useful to expand and read more independent comments. Currently I read from a few sources which aren't always on the same page, but that's OK.
Congratulation to your friend, as this article is being quoted world-wide. That I have found out already. There is very little to argue, that some kind of announcement is coming up. Drivers line up require confirmation, and decision over committment to next CA is also up. Friends of this team are at the stress point.

Edited by Sakae, 19 August 2012 - 06:58.


#1132 onewingedangel

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:57

I don't see Ross Brawn wanting to take a risk buying an F1 team again - he made some good money last time, but he essentially got the team for free, had a wad of cash given to him by Honda to sustain the team in 2009, and was lucky to sell before the team become a financial burden. Unless he has some inside information on a manufacturer wanting to enter F1, knowing he could sell the team on for 2014/2015, he could end up doing a Prost.

And changing it from Mercedes AMG to AMG would just be an excercise in saving face when the team is not successful.

Who else is out there shopping for an F1 team? I can't see any obvious buyer.

Edited by onewingedangel, 19 August 2012 - 11:02.


#1133 Sakae

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 11:09

Depends on type of partnership Mercedes would offer to Ross, assuming they are stepping down, which at the moment is not forego conclusion. Fact remains, that declaration of a kind "I do not want it" is one thing, but you need to have a buyer who will give you fair value what you are selling. There is nothing in the press about a mystique buyer in the background, and I am not convinced that some two horses backwards garden shed would have enough cash, other than their desires to get the team cheap.

Edited by Sakae, 19 August 2012 - 11:10.


#1134 puxanando

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 14:16

Who else is out there shopping for an F1 team? I can't see any obvious buyer.


Schumacher could buy it, if he really believe in Brawn and the team!


#1135 Schumacher7

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 14:27

Schumacher could buy it, if he really believe in Brawn and the team!

If Schumacher were to buy it he'd have to step down as a driver otherwise it would be seen by everyone as buying himself a seat, I can't see that being something he'd want to do though he looks like we wants to race not run a team.

#1136 Sakae

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 16:19

I am not familiar with Michael - the businessman, but he would receive really bad advice from anyone to spend a single Euro on anyone F1 team in current climate. Mercedes has an advertising budget, but for him it would be different.
Then this new CA; whilst main competitors RBR, Ferrari, and McLaren are sitting inside, discussing nature of F1 business, rest of them is on the outside? About you, without you? Not on your life, if F1 is your core business. Already now I think something unsavory when RB is having two teams on the track in times, when testing is restrictive, and collection of real track related data so precious.

Edited by Sakae, 19 August 2012 - 16:20.


#1137 weston

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 16:39

I am not familiar with Michael - the businessman, but he would receive really bad advice from anyone to spend a single Euro on anyone F1 team in current climate. Mercedes has an advertising budget, but for him it would be different.
Then this new CA; whilst main competitors RBR, Ferrari, and McLaren are sitting inside, discussing nature of F1 business, rest of them is on the outside? About you, without you? Not on your life, if F1 is your core business. Already now I think something unsavory when RB is having two teams on the track in times, when testing is restrictive, and collection of real track related data so precious.


Do not take puxanando's words literally. You must know her.
I guess there is a good reason why Schumacher has not signed a new contract (ie. uncertainties). As far as I understand the plan is to rename MGP to AMG F1 and keep it within the Mercedes group. Let's wait and see what's going on in the next 2-3 months.

Edited by weston, 19 August 2012 - 16:45.


#1138 Sakae

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 17:11

Do not take puxanando's words literally. You must know her.
I guess there is a good reason why Schumacher has not signed a new contract (ie. uncertainties). As far as I understand the plan is to rename MGP to AMG F1 and keep it within the Mercedes group. Let's wait and see what's going on in the next 2-3 months.

I could live with name change as suggested. Fingers cross that's all. Auto-Hebdo however seems to be going further than that.

#1139 Schumacher7

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Posted 19 August 2012 - 20:26

I am not familiar with Michael - the businessman, but he would receive really bad advice from anyone to spend a single Euro on anyone F1 team in current climate. Mercedes has an advertising budget, but for him it would be different.
Then this new CA; whilst main competitors RBR, Ferrari, and McLaren are sitting inside, discussing nature of F1 business, rest of them is on the outside? About you, without you? Not on your life, if F1 is your core business. Already now I think something unsavory when RB is having two teams on the track in times, when testing is restrictive, and collection of real track related data so precious.

Sorry I couldn't make heads nor tails of this, could you write it again please in different words. :p

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#1140 Sakae

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 01:05

Sorry I couldn't make heads nor tails of this, could you write it again please in different words. :p

But of course. If in Michael's shoes, I would not invest in F1.

#1141 Schumacher7

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 12:33

But of course. If in Michael's shoes, I would not invest in F1.

Much better. :p

#1142 Tommorris747

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:10

I have questions about this. I read two articles about this subject. The first is on the link by Slowinfastout from the previous page:
http://en.espnf1.com...tory/78734.html

The second article is from autoevolution yesterday:
http://www.autoevolu...ined-48468.html

One article has a quote from Bernie Ecclestone to say that he is doubtful that Mercedes will leave F1 and the other article says that Mercedes may make a decision to leave F1 completely. At first glance I thought the two articles were opposed but after close reading I notice that there is no contradiction and I have to think that this is not an accident! Ecclestone does not say that Mercedes will not leave F1 but only that he does not think they will leave. Slowinfastout says that the author communicates messages from Ecclestone so from that can we say that it is accurate that Ecclestone does not think Mercedes will leave F1? If this is correct I understand that it does not mean Mercedes will not leave F1 but I have to think that he would not say this if it was more likely that Mercedes will leave.

If one article can correctly say that the director of F1 does not think Mercedes will leave and another article can say that Mercedes may make a decision to leave F1 completely my conclusion is that there is no purpose in writing about this! I can not see even great purpose in a discussion of this until we know the decision of the Mercedes board meeting as referenced by autoevolution.

I understand that Ecclestone can be correct to say that he does not think Mercedes will leave F1, and I do not cast any negative feeling to the author of the article for writing this, but, it does not matter to me. I understand that people want to know what Ecclestone thinks because he steers the ship of F1 but my concern is if Mercedes will stay or go from F1 not if Ecclestone thinks Mercedes will stay or go. This is why I think that the only important message we can extract from this is that it is not likely Mercedes will leave otherwise why would Ecclestone say this? Does he like it to be shown that his thoughts were wrong!?

#1143 packapoo

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:15

Well if they pull their GP team but keep up their engine supply they haven't left, have they?

#1144 Sakae

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 05:38

Not to get lost in semantics, don’t lose sight of fact that Ecclestone's comments aren’t recent, and negotiations about Mercedes-Benz position in F1 weren’t concluded end of April 2012. Had BE stated something like that in past a few days, it might carry more weight, whereas three months ago talk seem more integral of his negotiation strategy, which, as rumor has it, might now backfire on him, for he might lose people who poured a lot of money into this. Should Mercedes leave (and that's not forego conclusion), I fully expect slow progress towards podium will take full blame for it, yet in reality there are undoubtedly other issues, potentially far more serious which are not being discussed, and could be perhaps summed up in a single word - inequality. Decision will come on this, but we have to wait. Public announcement is one thing, nature of private conversations among Board of Directors is probably another, and we can guess about it as much as we want. I am sure they would like to see more success, but is it the only reason why throw towel into a ring? Doesn’t make much sense to quit after three years only because you aren’t in P1. I bet had timing for new CA was later by a year or two, we would not have this discussion, not this year, if ever.

#1145 jav

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 13:46

Mercedes spent a lot of money in F1 before having a factory team. In these times especially, there has to be a majority (or very top level) belief that the investment brings about something positive to the brand. Looking at all the money Mercedes invests in F1 (Title sponsorship, engines supplier, Works team)- I think it's reasonable, even overdue, that someone question the return on investment of team given the trend of results, as well as their perceived place at the table amongst their contemporaries. I don't find it unlikely that they're seriosly consdering pulling the plug on the team.

#1146 Sakae

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 14:21

ROI might not be on the top of theirs priorities list, as one of the fellows from the Marketing division (name is escaping me) was marvelling not too long ago what kind of good platform F1 provides for the brand. What I think is however bothering them is the new CA discussed ad nauseum for past several months in the first instance, and risk mitigation over potential result of ongoing investigation on financial side, which could legally put them in the bind.

Edited by Sakae, 21 August 2012 - 14:22.


#1147 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 18:13

This is only my read on things, but I think the old article was Ecclestone pressuring Mercedes by publicly expressing the problems with the Concorde negotiations, while also explaining his version of why there was a potential issue trying to have an agreement with Mercedes.

"I very much doubt that Mercedes will leave," says Ecclestone adding that "they are upset at the moment because they feel they are not being treated in the same way as Ferrari. Our comment is a simple one, we are treating Mercedes in exactly the same way and that is what the problem is. All of these teams' commercial set ups are based on the length they have been in Formula One and the results whilst they were there. Unfortunately Mercedes have only been there a couple of years."


By making this public, Ecclestone made kind of a preemptive strike. He does that very often and the idea is that his logic becomes the consensual starting point of any questioning. Also, and more importantly, it may mean that this state of affairs
is not negotiable.

The only thing Mercedes can do after that is to:

- remain silent.

- point the finger to a competitor like Red Bull (which may lead to Ecclestone being forced to offer lesser terms to said competitor(s) because the pie is now shared with Mercedes).

- pull down their pants and say that they are fully committed to F1.

Now, several months later, if the reports are to be believed, Mercedes weren't able to get a satisfactory deal with Bernie, and for whatever reasons they don't want to keep negotiating until the end of the year after which the new CA will need to be agreed and come into effect.

Maybe the reports are wrong though, we'll know pretty soon.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 21 August 2012 - 18:22.


#1148 Sakae

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 18:43

Something unholly about that criterion (length in F1) Ecclestone is citing as a gospel, and it would be really nice for once that someone tells the truth. I am doubtful that Mercedes would be difficult party in these negotiations had they been aware of it in the first place, but they sounded surprised by that. Williams is long time with F1, yet they didn’t want to sign either. Why’s that? Mercedes-Benz has done hopefully their due diligence, they know the Game Theory and run scenarios through it, and I hope they will react best to their interest.

Edited by Sakae, 21 August 2012 - 18:47.


#1149 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 18:59

Good point about Williams, but I guess the 'gifts' based on length of implication and historical significance aren't something straight out of a simple math formula. Plus it's not the only thing to be negotiated. It would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall when Adam Parr left the team.

At the end of the day though, if Ecclestone would recognize the Brawn GP championship as part of the equation when dealing with Mercedes, he would open the door for a lot of very expensive requests, starting with Lotus/Renault..

He can't open the door on engine supply counting for anything either, unless he wants to write yet another massive payment to Ferrari.

#1150 Sakae

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 19:10

Ecclestone doesn't has to come up with criterium which favours certain teams, he didn't have to agree on "special" terms in secrecy, and then with crumbs off the table he goes and tries to divide those with rest of them. Why not simply to divide F1 revenues based on points earned? Everyone would have his fair shot. Then RB saga; is RB owner selling his two teams or is he staying at the helm, having more teams then anyone, and that's his understanding of fair play? Mercedes has every reason in the book to be unhappy about it.

Edited by Sakae, 21 August 2012 - 19:11.