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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#1151 Slowinfastout

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 19:16

In all honesty I don't think F1 has changed that much since Mercedes entered, seems pretty clear to me that the single biggest factor contributing to the current uncertainty is the lack of positive results from the team they have bought.

Surely all sorts of promises were made, the plan and the expectations were all based on a team that had just won the championship.

F1 governance remained consistent through all this, it's as f*cked up as ever.

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#1152 Sakae

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 19:36

Friend call me just now that Norbert Haug was making presentation to the Board this morning (Tuesday), but I cannot find any confirmation in the print as yet.

#1153 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:02

Benz Insider.com on Ross Brawn:

Part of Brawn’s confidence stems from his drivers. When asked to describe them, this was his reply: “Very professional, very committed, good attitude, speed, work very well in the team, work well together as a pairing.”



#1154 ForeverF1

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:05

Benz Insider.com on Ross Brawn:

What else would he say? :rolleyes:

#1155 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:19

What else would he say? :rolleyes:

It appears that I have obviously more trust in Ross as a straightshooter, than some others do.

#1156 ForeverF1

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:24

It appears that I have obviously more trust in Ross as a straightshooter, than some others do.

A TP a "straight shooter"? Don't make me laugh.

#1157 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:34

Lets say then that Ross has knack for saying things that are music to my ears. :)

#1158 ForeverF1

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:39

Lets say then that Ross has knack for saying things that are music to my ears. :)

As long as what he says is favourable. lol

#1159 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:44

As long as what he says is favourable. lol

Now you'r talking.

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#1160 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 06:48

Old, yet still valid - ESPNF1 of 26.5.2012 on CA

The report says that the annual prize fund will stay at 47.5% of F1's underlying profit, but that new bonuses mean an extra 7.5% will be shared between the top three teams of the past three years, plus 5% for Ferrari due to its historical status. Bernie Ecclestone told the newspaper: "The teams are going to get around $70m more."


Would be nice to know when this "special" was initiated, and why.

#1161 ForeverF1

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:08

Now you'r talking.

So, lies (percieved) are acceptable to you, as long as it is in favour of "Deutsch uber alles"

#1162 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:22

So, lies (percieved) are acceptable to you, as long as it is in favour of "Deutsch uber alles"

No, it is not, but I am surprised to learn that favorable comment about Mercedes drivers by Ross Brawn is an obvious lie.

#1163 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:23

Little more about CA: (video clip)




#1164 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:26

F1SA | 20.7.2012

Mercedes / CA

Die Welt newspaper said this week that Mercedes is not only yet to sign up, but that Niki Lauda has been engaged as an intermediary for the negotiations.

"We ask for your understanding that we are not commenting on the negotiations," Haug insisted.

"This is the standard in the industry, not because we want to hide something," he added.

But when asked if Mercedes is contemplating pulling out of Formula 1, he answered simply: "No."




#1165 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:37

Is this what could be one of the factors that holds Merc back, unwilling to sign up for long term with BE?

europe businessreview.eu | May 2012
(from interview with CNN)

Ferrari Chief signals F1 breakaway in 2013
Formula One teams could consider setting up their own series from 2013 when the sport's current Concorde Agreement expires revealed Ferrari's President, Luca di Montezemolo


Luca is basically talking about F1 teams should/could/ought to set up their own league like NBA. BE has doen good job, but he is now out, and new arrangement is desirable.


#1166 baddog

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:42

lol like the last 2 times they were going to do that? hilarious.

#1167 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:53

Well, F1 is at significant turning point. BE seems to be out of it, and what's left? Mercedes will be directed by an energy drink company owner? Who are the new owners anyway, and what's their agenda for any automaker to sign a blank cheque under long term involvement? There are many good questions unanswered, and whilst I am not sure that I do trust LdM today as much as I used to, fact is, breakaway series might be a better place than what's coming up in current F1. I hope that Mercedes can see through all of this.

#1168 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:28

Ross Brawn gets it right once again. What a guy!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101883


#1169 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:04

Flagworld.com 19.7.2012
Mercedes, FiA are yet to sign with BE?

But (despite BE's claims to the contrary) German specialist magazine Auto Motor und Sport reported this week that the Jean Todt-led federation has in fact not yet agreed to the currently tripartite deal.




http://www.flagworld...ncorde-reports/


#1170 ali_M

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:25

Ross Brawn gets it right once again. What a guy!

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/101883


I totally agree too. It's been difficult to tell what's what and finally, a story of sorts is unfolding. Unfortunately, credit is often being given where it's likely inappropriate as the tyres flatter one team/driver at times, while it doesn't another. Of course, tyre issues have always factored in this way but certainly not to this high degree and so unpredictably. McLaren seem like the team to beat after Hungary. However, so did RBR after Valencia and MGP after China!!

Edited by ali_M, 22 August 2012 - 12:27.


#1171 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:37

I take it that his "randomness" = our "lottery". Now, all these fans on this forum who argued... eh, lets leave it.

#1172 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 14:01

He's just bitter that Merc does not understand what is going on. The fact that there is a leader with a 40 points advantage followed by a close pack of the well-known best teams and drivers is proof that a story *is* unfolding. It's just not the one Merc would like. Random looks very different.

I also disagree very much with "What we cannot have in motorsport is a randomness where you don't know who is going to win". Come again?

Edit: Anyway, further into the quotes he rubbishes his own claim: "There is a pattern emerging, and a trend emerging, as we all get more competent with the tyres. I suspect that is what will happen and, as long as it does happen, that is fine. But what we don't want is the randomness."

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 22 August 2012 - 14:03.


#1173 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 14:16

Well no, to see the future now is a sign of the leader, not a follower. I understand his language, because I think I understand nature of the problem he is describing, as I have understood it several months ago. Difference is, he can do something about it, whereas we fans cannot, unless you want to leave series for lack of interest.

#1174 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 14:25

Well no, to see the future now is a sign of the leader, not a follower. I understand his language, because I think I understand nature of the problem he is describing, as I have understood it several months ago. Difference is, he can do something about it, whereas we fans cannot, unless you want to leave series for lack of interest.


I don't understand a word you are saying, could you please rephrase?

#1175 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 14:41

I don't understand a word you are saying, could you please rephrase?

Sure, methinks if you haven't understood problem that Ross is describing already on your own in past several months, his brief touch today upon that subject isn't enough to make it more palatable.

#1176 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:11

Sure, methinks if you haven't understood problem that Ross is describing already on your own in past several months, his brief touch today upon that subject isn't enough to make it more palatable.


His problem seems to be that Merc don't understand the tyres. Fact is that Ferrari, McL, and RBR are at the front of the championship, closely followed by Lotus; Marussia, Caterham, and HRT are at the back; Williams, TR, Merc, FI are in the midfiled. The championship leaders are the WDCs and runner-ups of recent years. WTF is random about that?

Again, I don't agree with Ross that it is a problem not to know who is going to win. Why would I watch if I knew?

EDIT: He sang a different tune when not long after China he thought Merc would be competitive:

F1′s best will prevail in 2012 says Brawn

F1′s current unbalance of power will eventually settle, leaving the best teams at the front of the pack. That is the view of Ross Brawn, despite Pirelli chief Paul Hembery predicting that Barcelona could crown a fifth different winning team and driver this weekend. (...) “In the end, the best will prevail,” he is quoted by Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport, “because they will get it right with the tyres more often. “It may take a little more time, but I think ultimately the good teams and the good drivers always do the better job,” added Brawn. (...) “Obviously for the sport, it’s great.”


F1: Ross Brawn likes the Pirelli challenge compared to the Bridgestone tires

Mercedes AMG team boss doesn't understand the frustration about the 2012 Pirelli tires from some drivers and team directors. (...) The Mercedes AMG team boss continued: "We know what is needed, we just don't know how to achieve it. (...) The Britain detailed the race by race challenge: "What is fascinating is seeing cars for some of the race look very ordinary, and then suddenly they come into the window and become quite extraordinary. It is a very interesting challenge." (...) However, Ross Brawn believes the situation is much better than back in 2010 when the Bridgestone tires lasted too well. "I think in 2010 there was an argument that it almost got too predictable, the tyres were too well understood and they were too consistent, so there was a certain predictability about how the tyres were going to behave. It was relatively easy to get to know how they were going to work, and I remember there was a time there were comments about the predictability of the tyres and the need to shake it up a bit. Getting it exactly right for everybody is a pretty difficult task, but I think teams will get better as the season goes on. We have made progress in understanding how the tyres work, but we haven't completely got on top of it. Each race provides another piece of the jigsaw to get a better understanding," concluded Ross Brawn.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 22 August 2012 - 15:35.


#1177 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:38

I understand Brawn's argument, but I don't agree we're at a point where we have the kind of randomness that is damaging, one that would indicate a drastic change is needed.

As Knuckles said, at this point the standings look like what you could expect of any F1 season, except maybe for Mercedes.. but nobody forced them to design an unreliable car, nobody forced them to (visibly) have a disastrous development rate and nobody forced them to have an inferior understanding of the tires compared to their rivals.

You know what this smells like considering the current context? Mercedes-Benz are asking the F1 team why the results aren't reflecting the level of investment? and why should they carry on investing that much into F1 only to get humiliated? and Ross Brawn respond in the only possible way he can to deflect the blame away from the team.

-------------

About the teams wanting to create a new series.. this is the same story all over again, we could list the advantages and disadvantages of doing that, but the main purpose here is to create themselves some negotiation leverage to get the FIA and FOM closer to their terms.

Also I wouldn't believe Bernie when he says 'everything is agreed with everyone.' When the Concorde agreement is finalized everyone will be happy to make a proper announcement, not just Bernie, and we'll know about it, it won't be a small quote bundled in a bunch of crap.

Last point, unlike Sakae I very much doubt Bernie is out of the picture.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 22 August 2012 - 15:47.


#1178 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:39

I read it differently.

I think he is of oipinion that now teams have better understanding and control of tires. (Half season is over, mind you). He rejects unpredictability of the race in which winner is a car with best tire, nevermind anything else like skills, and a car. Put it differently, tire needs to play a lesser role, and not to be a decisive factor of the race. I wonder if he is actually also revealing, that tires (on his car) are inconsistent on a single set up. What I mean is, you can beggin race on correct setup that was carried over from Q3, yet before next tire change you witness such degradation, that you should have a different setup to make it work. Such change could be characterized as randomness (I think). He also thinks its better for fans, when pecking order is more predictable. Fans do not want to see Mclaren with Hamilton drive backwards, if his tires aren't working.

#1179 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:47

I read it differently.

I think he is of oipinion that now teams have better understanding and control of tires. (Half season is over, mind you). He rejects unpredictability of the race in which winner is a car with best tire,

The tyres are the same for everyone. Despite creating Pirelli thread after Pirelli thread nobody showed a single piece of credible evidence to the contrary. This is getting OT here and should go to the Pirelli threads.

nevermind anything else like skills, and a car. Put it differently, tire needs to play a lesser role, and not to be a decisive factor of the race. I wonder if he is actually also revealing, that tires (on his car) are inconsistent on a single set up. What I mean is, you can beggin race on correct setup that was carried over from Q3, yet before next tire change you witness such degradation, that you should have a different setup to make it work. Such change could be characterized as randomness (I think). He also thinks its better for fans, when pecking order is more predictable. Fans do not want to see Mclaren with Hamilton drive backwards, if his tires aren't working.


--------- - Car
---------
|-------| - Tyres
--------- - Road

There is no way for how the car works with the tyres not to be the decisive factor of the race. IT IS THE ONLY PART THAT KEEPS THE CAR ON THE ROAD. It was explained to you and others 10000 times in the Pirelli threads, I even provided links to 10 news stories from the Bridgestone era showing that it was no different then.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 22 August 2012 - 15:48.


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#1180 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:49

Last point, unlike Sakae I very much doubt Bernie is out of the picture.


I have to admit that this is not conclusion of my own. (Read too many reports in past a few days, and I am begging to talk like those guys). I would have to search, but some Wall Street analyst was assessing Singapore offer, and I think it was expression he used in his public article about it. (BTW he recommended hands-off of F1).

#1181 korzeniow

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 15:55

You know what this smells like considering the current context? Mercedes-Benz are asking the F1 team why the results aren't reflecting the level of investment? and why should they carry on investing that much into F1 only to get humiliated? and Ross Brawn respond in the only possible way he can to deflect the blame away from the team.


Yeap :up: That's the most reasonable explanation of this Brawn's sudden critics (where nobody talks about nowdays) and shitf in his argumentation

#1182 KiloWatt

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 16:05

I think some of you are putting word in his his mouth. While I will admit that the team has in the past appeared to make excuses, I dont think thats what's happening here. He's simply making the point that the first part of the reason was too random. With teams being massively fast the one race and nowhere the next. Then he goes on to say that a trend is hoewever emerging and that he hopes the rest of the seaso is more predictable.

Come on, he doesnt even mention or talk about his own team. :rolleyes:

#1183 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 16:18

The story of F1 hasn't changed much since the Chinese GP.. the story of Mercedes-AMG F1 on the other hand, that has changed.

Remember the first leg of the championship before Spain? I'd bet Merc F1 was the most talked-about team in the press apart maybe for Ferrari (which for them was mostly negative stuff)

Since then it's gone so far downhill for Merc that we're talking about a pullout, it's that disastrous.

What a difference 4 months can make: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/98919/

#1184 ali_M

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 16:19

I think some of you are putting word in his his mouth. While I will admit that the team has in the past appeared to make excuses, I dont think thats what's happening here. He's simply making the point that the first part of the reason was too random. With teams being massively fast the one race and nowhere the next. Then he goes on to say that a trend is hoewever emerging and that he hopes the rest of the seaso is more predictable.

Come on, he doesnt even mention or talk about his own team. :rolleyes:


It would seem that the moral of the story here is to never voice an opinion as Ross Brawn has while on the back foot. It will always be assumed as being an excuse or complaining to get change in your favour at the disadvantage of the others. This is a great pity since it prevents a genuine analysis of the argument. Hopefully, the paddock and decision makers take such arguments in a more mature light. :rolleyes:

He's saying a lot there that makes it wholly unnecessary to be bringing up this silly 'same for everybody' argument. :mad: 'Same for Everyone' is a phrase that gives me nightmares now!! :rotfl:

#1185 ali_M

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 16:20

The story of F1 hasn't changed much since the Chinese GP.. the story of Mercedes-AMG F1 on the other hand, that has changed.

Remember the first leg of the championship before Spain? I'd bet Merc F1 was the most talked-about team in the press apart maybe for Ferrari (which for them was mostly negative stuff)

Since then it's gone so far downhill for Merc that we're talking about a pullout, it's that disastrous.

What a difference 4 months can make: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/98919/


Do you really think that their pullout would be based on what you mentioned?? :confused:

#1186 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 16:25

Do you really think that their pullout would be based on what you mentioned?? :confused:


It's certainly part of it.

If they were leading the championship(s) there wouldn't be any kind of doubt or complaint about F1 coming from their camp. It would (still) be the best season of Formula 1 ever.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 22 August 2012 - 16:26.


#1187 Sakae

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 18:21

The story of F1 hasn't changed much since the Chinese GP.. the story of Mercedes-AMG F1 on the other hand, that has changed.

Remember the first leg of the championship before Spain? I'd bet Merc F1 was the most talked-about team in the press apart maybe for Ferrari (which for them was mostly negative stuff)

Since then it's gone so far downhill for Merc that we're talking about a pullout, it's that disastrous.

What a difference 4 months can make: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/98919/

I think that Norbert in thet interview had no idea what's lying ahead. He was wrong in his prediction, and I noticed ever since if you ask him, he just keeps quiet. You are as good as your last race somehow grew on him.

#1188 jjpm

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 18:41

I thinks too many here(and elsewhere) mix up a bunch of disparate infos to make their point be it pro or anti Mercedes/Schumacher...

About the Mercedes shareholders meeting and Mercedes F1 team withdrawing there is one person that is rarely cited here:
Fund manager Ingo Speich, of the Daimler shareholder Union Investment, said at Daimler’s annual general meeting (April 2012) that he is disappointed Mercedes has lost ground to road car rivals Audi and BMW.
“Mercedes is no longer the measure of all things in the premium sector,” he is quoted as saying by Die Presse.
Speich referred to “a lost decade” for Daimler, and called on the company to follow BMW’s recent lead and pull out of formula one.

Its strange that Bloomberg does not quote the 'pullout from F1' but make a big quote of the 'lost decade'...

http://topics.bloomb...om/ingo-speich/

IMO Ingo Speich is vying for the title of future CEO of the group knowing that Dieter Zetsche's contract will end next year but do not know for sure if he want to to be re-elected or will retire, thus everything that can lessen the power of Zetsche prior to 2013...
That's include, of course, the Grabowski/Ecclestone affair which if not directly affecting the group can be used to support F1 team withdrawal.

I don't believe that the state of the F1 Team is of prime importance as far as the Shareholders are concerned. They have already voted the plan for its realization and none of us knows for sure what it contains and its duration (3 or 5 years?).
And I presume Norbert Haug able to present a strong case for the 2013 and 2014.

Edited by jjpm, 22 August 2012 - 18:43.


#1189 Tommorris747

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 21:05

By making this public, Ecclestone made kind of a preemptive strike. He does that very often and the idea is that his logic becomes the consensual starting point of any questioning. Also, and more importantly, it may mean that this state of affairs
is not negotiable.

Maybe the reports are wrong though, we'll know pretty soon.


I completely disagree. I think it may seem that the Ecclestone view is the starting point but only for the media and the readers of the media! I am sure that the people who have real power (it is Mercedes we are talking about) have their starting point long before Ecclestone speaks.

I do agree though that the real test of the truth is if Mercedes leaves F1. If it stays in F1 then we can be sure that the original report from Ecclestone was worth remembering and it was a crystal ball for the future. However, if Mercedes leaves F1 then we know that Ecclestone had other motives for making his comment and the public was wasting time by reading that he thinks Mercedes will stay.

#1190 Slowinfastout

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 22:03

We pretty much have completely opposite views.

When Ecclestone issues a statement saying he thinks Mercedes will stay, it's basically to express in the public domain that there is a doubt about whether Mercedes will stay or not.

You don't see Bernie leaking an article that says: 'I don't think Ferrari will quit F1 after this season' ...and if he did, it would send everyone into an epic speculating frenzy.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 22 August 2012 - 22:04.


#1191 Sakae

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:56

I thinks too many here(and elsewhere) mix up a bunch of disparate infos to make their point be it pro or anti Mercedes/Schumacher...

About the Mercedes shareholders meeting and Mercedes F1 team withdrawing there is one person that is rarely cited here:
Fund manager Ingo Speich, of the Daimler shareholder Union Investment, said at Daimler’s annual general meeting (April 2012) that he is disappointed Mercedes has lost ground to road car rivals Audi and BMW.
“Mercedes is no longer the measure of all things in the premium sector,” he is quoted as saying by Die Presse.
Speich referred to “a lost decade” for Daimler, and called on the company to follow BMW’s recent lead and pull out of formula one.

Its strange that Bloomberg does not quote the 'pullout from F1' but make a big quote of the 'lost decade'...

http://topics.bloomb...om/ingo-speich/

IMO Ingo Speich is vying for the title of future CEO of the group knowing that Dieter Zetsche's contract will end next year but do not know for sure if he want to to be re-elected or will retire, thus everything that can lessen the power of Zetsche prior to 2013...
That's include, of course, the Grabowski/Ecclestone affair which if not directly affecting the group can be used to support F1 team withdrawal.

I don't believe that the state of the F1 Team is of prime importance as far as the Shareholders are concerned. They have already voted the plan for its realization and none of us knows for sure what it contains and its duration (3 or 5 years?).
And I presume Norbert Haug able to present a strong case for the 2013 and 2014.


Good point, although there were always voices of opposition to F1 in ranks of shareholders, yet project went ahead. Some of us were acutely aware of that threat, but hoping that Zetsche might calm the waters.

_________________________________________________

Previously noted in this thread / Part I - Apr 11 / Post 3789

#1192 Sakae

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 13:20

More CA related rumbling:

Flagworld:

And Sauber team manager Beat Zehnder suggested the plan (by large teams expanding Parc Ferme to Friday) isn’t even necessary.

“We were at Hockenheim with 47 people, and tested quite normally,” he said.
“I don’t know why the big teams need 60 people.”

Auto Motor und Sport also revealed that proposals to designate Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren, Mercedes, Lotus and Williams as the exclusive suppliers of ‘customer cars’ to the rest of the field is now definitely dead. The report said that because some of the smaller teams threatened to take the proposal to European court, the new Concorde Agreement will continue to disallow the sale of the monocoque, suspension, nose and other fundamental areas of the cars.



#1193 Sakae

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 16:35

Assuming rumor comes to light…

Something occurred to me that perhaps some of us (fans) lack even most fundamental legal terms how F1 functions in comercial/legal terms. I wonder if someone this BB actually understand whether semi-official team AMG F1 is a results of Mercedes (sort off anyway) pulling out in 2014, or it is necessary and only way how not to lose contact with F1, whilst they are refusing to sign CA under terms put to them. Put it differently, setting up front team AMG F1 is a substitute for Mercedes-Benz signing (unacceptable) CA. Sounds like a lot of blah blah, but fact is, how do you stay in without being signatory to CA? That concept is not as crazy as some might think, and could allow for very creative solutions in the future.

Edited by Sakae, 23 August 2012 - 16:49.


#1194 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 16:53

More CA related rumbling:

Flagworld:


That's just the kind of BS you could expect from PS. Of course he doesn't know. How could he? His first and foremost priority is to marginalize the difference between his team and the big ones, and he is riding the tidal wave of his team doing relatively well this season, I'm sure he has Pirelli's on his car at home.


Assuming rumor comes to light…

Something occurred to me that perhaps some of us (fans) lack even most fundamental legal terms how F1 functions in comercial/legal terms. I wonder if someone this BB actually understand whether semi-official team AMG F1 is a results of Mercedes (sort off anyway) pulling out in 2014, or it is necessary and only way how not to lose contact with F1, whilst they are refusing to sign CA under terms put top them. Put it differently, setting up front team AMG F1 is a substitute for Mercedes-Benz signing (unacceptable) CA. Sounds like a lot of blah blah, but fact is, how do you stay in without being signatory to CA? That concept is not as crazy as some might think, and could allow for very creative solutions in the future.


Well, that is about as obvious as it can be, isn't it? :)


#1195 Sakae

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 16:58

That's just the kind of BS you could expect from PS. Of course he doesn't know. How could he? His first and foremost priority is to marginalize the difference between his team and the big ones, and he is riding the tidal wave of his team doing relatively well this season, I'm sure he has Pirelli's on his car at home.




Well, that is about as obvious as it can be, isn't it? :)

Well, smart guy, it wasn't to me, because in reality Merc, if this solution would be adopted, would not be withdrawing from F1 at all, but merely side-step it in current form with free hand to get involved in the future when time is right, buying their front team simply back.

Edited by Sakae, 23 August 2012 - 16:58.


#1196 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 17:17

Well, smart guy, it wasn't to me, because in reality Merc, if this solution would be adopted, would not be withdrawing from F1 at all, but merely side-step it in current form with free hand to get involved in the future when time is right, buying their front team simply back.


That seems to be the general idea to me. They will show the birdie to BE, and get the added benefit of not losing the team's future history as a deal factor, if they do better than so far they have, that is to say. Was not try to be picky or sarcastic by the way.


#1197 Cavani

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 17:35

some people who works with the brackly factory say that next year will be a new owner and the deal is in process now

#1198 Pits

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 18:02

some people who works with the brackly factory say that next year will be a new owner and the deal is in process now


How do you know? Source?

#1199 ivand911

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 18:05

How do you know? Source?

He said insiders.


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#1200 Pits

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 18:09

He said insiders.


Damne... :(