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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#1251 Igorr

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:09

lets leave the politics aside and focus on the racing weekend. Are there any aerodynamic updates on the car?

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#1252 Sakae

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:23

There are no new news (this season related) on the team since Hungary as far as I can detect. This weekend is first opportunity to see what was actually done in past a few weeks.

Edited by Sakae, 30 August 2012 - 06:15.


#1253 exmayol

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:30

There are no new news (this season related) on the team since Hungary as far as I can detect. This weekend is first opportunity to see what was actually done in past a few weeks.


You meant to say if anything was done at all?

Edited by exmayol, 30 August 2012 - 07:31.


#1254 Sakae

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:40

You meant to say if anything was done at all?

Not if, but how much? Obviously I hope they will bring some goodies with them to the Spa.

Edited by Sakae, 30 August 2012 - 07:42.


#1255 Clatter

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:02

Try to read my post again, and this time slowly, if you will, please.


I've read it, and your point is still wrong.


#1256 Sakae

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:47

I've read it, and your point is still wrong.

Prove it.

____________________

Team will continue to race in some form. If you consider this prediction as a false statement, than your crystal ball is better than mine. Second possibility is, that you do not know much about hiring practices of German owned firms. Finally, I have been in this racket for very long time, and to hire someone just three months prior closing the door can perhaps happen in GB, but nowhere else, if they have any last bit of common sense left. It takes some time for a person to be integrated, and what you are saying in essence is, that suddenly Merc went beserk, and putting up a false front for media. Give me a break, please.

#1257 Clatter

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 12:05

Prove it.

____________________

Team will continue to race in some form. If you consider this prediction as a false statement, than your crystal ball is better than mine. Second possibility is, that you do not know much about hiring practices of German owned firms. Finally, I have been in this racket for very long time, and to hire someone just three months prior closing the door can perhaps happen in GB, but nowhere else, if they have any last bit of common sense left. It takes some time for a person to be integrated, and what you are saying in essence is, that suddenly Merc went beserk, and putting up a false front for media. Give me a break, please.


Don't be so dumb. I don't know what Mercs ultimate plans are, but your point regarding recruitment is not a good indicator of those plans. If Merc pull out then I fully expect the team to be sold and not just fold like Toyota, to that end they will continue to operate as if they are staying. To do anything less would just devalue the asset. This happens a lot in UK business's, the team are based in the UK and they will be subject to UK employment rules.

Edited by Clatter, 30 August 2012 - 12:08.


#1258 Sakae

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 14:33

I don't know what Mercs ultimate plans are, but your point regarding recruitment is not a good indicator of those plans. If Merc pull out then I fully expect the team to be sold and not just fold like Toyota, to that end they will continue to operate as if they are staying. To do anything less would just devalue the asset. This happens a lot in UK business's, the team are based in the UK and they will be subject to UK employment rules.

I did not claim that hiring is the indicator of Mercedes plans other than it is a good indicator of team continuity (with some business entity).

#1259 korzeniow

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 14:44

Posted Image
Posted Image


gallery: http://www.auto-moto...otoshow_item=24

Mercedes copied Lotus' monkey seat

Edited by korzeniow, 30 August 2012 - 14:46.


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#1260 ivand911

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 20:05

Mercedes copied Lotus' monkey seat

That team never fail to disappoint me. I am so not surprised by that update. They spend 10000 euro on monkey seat.

#1261 FlashMaster

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 20:14

That team never fail to disappoint me. I am so not surprised by that update. They spend 10000 euro on monkey seat.


One update is better than 0 updates... :rotfl:

Merc is so epic fail, I guess even Force India will be faster than them.

#1262 Schumacher7

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 20:24

That team never fail to disappoint me. I am so not surprised by that update. They spend 10000 euro on monkey seat.

Where as you in your infinite wisdom of all things F1 would have...?

#1263 grunge

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:05

That team never fail to disappoint me. I am so not surprised by that update. They spend 10000 euro on monkey seat.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#1264 1Devil1

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 21:26

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


He is right! Perhaps too pessimistic as always but this team is a joke :lol:

#1265 BetaVersion

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:14

Just a modest prediction for Mercedes performance overall in the weekend:

better than Toro Rosso and new teams, obviously, and that's it. I easily see everybody else being faster in Spa.

#1266 Starish

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:22

Just a modest prediction for Mercedes performance overall in the weekend:

better than Toro Rosso and new teams, obviously, and that's it. I easily see everybody else being faster in Spa.


total opposite from me, I expect them to be pretty good, top 5 in qualifying.

#1267 RedBaron

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:38

Back in business this weekend. I'm sure Mercedes will be stronger here than we've seen in the past few races.

#1268 Urawa

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:48

Small bits and pieces for this race while bigger ugprades will arrive for the upcoming races according to NR.

#1269 Kvothe

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:40

Mercedes has a passive drs concept similar to Lotus, Scarbs has named it triple DRS.

#1270 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:41

Mercedes has a passive drs concept similar to Lotus, Scarbs has named it triple DRS.

My friends at http://www.motorsportgp.pl are kind enough to provide an image:

Posted Image

#1271 spacekid

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 11:54

So, what are we expecting here? A car thats decent in a straight line (thats good!) but munches through its tyres like tic-tacs on the long fast bends (thats bad)?

Top 10 quali for both cars, and either horrible race pace or average race pace with 3 stops.

Finishing well behind Lotus, Mac, Red Bull and Ferrari obviously. Probably behind Sauber on race pace, maybe racing with FI and Williams, maybe slower than those two as well.

I predict a finishing position of about 12th for the highest finishing Merc. I also predict one of the cars won't finish. Probably the one with the most German driver.

#1272 Timstr11

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 13:15

So now they have a drag reduction device for the rear wing.
They have a lot of experience with passive F-ducts, so they should be able to get it to work quickly.

Posted Image

From another angle.

Edited by Timstr11, 31 August 2012 - 14:54.


#1273 korzeniow

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 15:42

Posted Image

#1274 Urawa

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 15:48

MS said there won´t be any form of development stop this year and it´ll go right to the end.
There is much to test and car will change "quite a lot" during the next few races.

#1275 Kingshark

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 16:19

MS said there won´t be any form of development stop this year and it´ll go right to the end.
There is much to test and car will change "quite a lot" during the next few races.

Thank God. :wave:

Mercedes need to break themselves loose from that BAR mentality.

#1276 Sakae

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 16:20

I can't find the quote right now (bookmarking is not my strong side), but I think one of the insiders said just not too long ago (Newey?) that next year car spec will be very similar to those of 2012. If that is the case, makes sense then to continue strongly, resources permitting.

#1277 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 17:12

I can't find the quote right now (bookmarking is not my strong side), but I think one of the insiders said just not too long ago (Newey?) that next year car spec will be very similar to those of 2012. If that is the case, makes sense then to continue strongly, resources permitting.


Indeed, but if your fundamental base is flawed as is the case with Mercedes in 2012 (and 2011 and 2010 and 2008 AND 2007) then all the development won't bring wonders.

I really hope the team do well and Schumacher retires on a high, but history has taught me that the team cannot run two cars strongly at the same time, on the same track and at the same time. Last year was Schumacher's 20th anniversary and they sent him out with a loose wheel nut as a happy anniversary present so he started dead last - the FIRST time in his entire career.

The form book says expect nothing different. Someone will cock up in Q1, Q3 and Q3 and then we'll have a series of blunders in the race.

#1278 Sakae

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 17:42

Hasn't someone reported already that Michael was on the radio having vibration (front left, was it)? I didn't hear later what was going on, but it is frightening to think that the assembly group was sloppy yet again, or alternatively, reliability group let in a component which was not calculated correctly for its LC, and Michael perhaps suffered failure while on the track. I may sound like pessimist, but after twelve races I am getting restless.

#1279 onewingedangel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 18:24

It'll be funny if Mercedes race 'the device' and Lotus don't.

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#1280 Zava

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 18:35

It'll be funny if Mercedes race 'the device' and Lotus don't.

it would be funny especially because they don't even have it fully. if you examine it better, you can see that the pipe is not connected to the rear wing. ;)

Edited by Zava, 31 August 2012 - 18:35.


#1281 Slowinfastout

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 18:36

Yep could be quite funny, nothing like stalling the rear wing at the wrong moment because the system wasn't properly tested and fine-tuned..

#1282 onewingedangel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 18:49

it would be funny especially because they don't even have it fully. if you examine it better, you can see that the pipe is not connected to the rear wing.;)


The lotus system just seems to blow the underside of the wing through two slots on the pipework, not on the main plane itself. Attaching the pipework to the wing seems to be for stability and to ensure it doesn't move and blow the wrong part of the wing. If sufficiently rigid the pipework could function without being connected to the wing itself.

#1283 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 19:11

it would be funny especially because they don't even have it fully. if you examine it better, you can see that the pipe is not connected to the rear wing.;)


The mechanic that did Schumacher's wheel nuts in Spa 2011 and China 2012 is probably in charge of it so it doesn't surprise me that it isn't connected.

I think he previously worked at Kwik Fit.

#1284 Massa

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 19:12

Well, it's good to see that Schumacher is always the same :)

Q. (Michael Doodson - Honorary) Ross, you just spoke most eloquently about Michael's ability to incentivise a team but only yesterday Michael himself told us, rather surprisingly, that the lack of reliability that he's had this year, was no big deal for him. This suggests to me that perhaps he's rather less ambitious now than he once was. I wonder if this is going to affect your decision about whether or not to re-employ him next year?

RB: I think you need to separate the opinions Michael gives to the media and the opinions he gives to the team.They are sometimes quite different. Michael's tough, Michael's very demanding in terms of within the team, but he does that in a very positive way. He demands things of the team and he commits himself to the team in return, but that's not something Michael shares outside of the team. As I say, he's a good team member so when we do have a problem, Michael's as disappointed as any of us, perhaps more so and will express that disappointment. But quite honestly he doesn't express that to the media because that's not part of being a team. It's as simple as that really.



#1285 BetaVersion

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 00:30

Don't know if anybody else feels the same but one thing that really enfuriates me about this team is when Schumacher complains about something in the radio like: "I have some vibration on my front left tire" and etc, and the idiot on radio always says: "ok,cope with that"

I mean, really??? ok? cope with that?

These retards can't even put a decent car to be driven, this kind of silly setup issues are very often in Schumacher's car, and they don't take any blame at all, it's just "ok, deal with it". It's all on the driver's shoulders.



):

#1286 Tardis40

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 01:54

Are you certain he isn't saying "copy that" ?

#1287 BetaVersion

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:46

why would he say such thing to Michael?

just for the record, english is not my native language

#1288 Sakae

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:56

why would he say such thing to Michael?

Acknowledgement to Michael that he understood what was reported. Copy that is quite often used term on a radio to cut long answers short.

#1289 RedBaron

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:13

Come on guys, we need both cars getting as much track time as possible this morning! What a huge disadvantage Mercedes are at now.

#1290 rog

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:13

Another Free practice session failure for Rosberg, good preparation for him. Well done Mercedes.

#1291 korzeniow

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:14

What a diaster for Rosberg. No work on setup whatsoever.

#1292 RedBaron

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:15

Gearbox (again?) apparently so that's even worse, not just track time lost but 5 places down the grid.

Edited by RedBaron, 01 September 2012 - 09:15.


#1293 Massa_f1

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:17

Ah. I see the Summer has not changed anything. Its still a sh** box.

#1294 Longtimefan

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:18

It makes a change for it not to be Schumi's car I guess.

Not good for Nico though :(


#1295 Igorr

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:19

Will be interesting to see if Rosberg will be able to recover in qualifying.

#1296 rog

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:21

Will be interesting to see if Rosberg will be able to recover in qualifying.



Doesn't matter really with a 5 place penalty. His weekend is finished more or less. He should retire in the race like Schumacher so that he can get another new gearbox for the next race.

#1297 RedBaron

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:24

Doesn't matter really with a 5 place penalty. His weekend is finished more or less. He should retire in the race like Schumacher so that he can get another new gearbox for the next race.



If they can get reasonable pace from the car then a 5 place grid drop here isn't as bad as some other circuits, lots of overtaking possibilities... it doesn't help but it isn't weekend over. Just well on the back foot.

#1298 Igorr

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:36

With lotus and mclaren not running their DDRS, i hope that the Mercs can get at least top 4 in the Q3. It would be harder for Rosberg who hasnt had any running, but i dont see a reason for schumacher why he wouldnt be able to extract the performance from the car.

#1299 RedBaron

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:39

With lotus and mclaren not running their DDRS, i hope that the Mercs can get at least top 4 in the Q3. It would be harder for Rosberg who hasnt had any running, but i dont see a reason for schumacher why he wouldnt be able to extract the performance from the car.


Schumacher is compromised too now, he has to do all the work for both drivers. Instead of the team splitting the workload between both drivers. I'd rather be Schumacher than Rosberg right now, but not cool.

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#1300 Sof1

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 10:02

After FP3, Merc looks like $hit!

Very disappointing.