Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 6 votes

Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3093 replies to this topic

#1401 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 3,170 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:19

Great time to switch to a 2 stopper. 8 laps remaining..

..beyond inept..


Advertisement

#1402 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,561 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:20

Someone should be fired. A car with tire problems uses a one stop strategy which doesn't work for either driver.

#1403 schumimercamg

schumimercamg
  • Member

  • 315 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:22

Someone should be fired. A car with tire problems uses a one stop strategy which doesn't work for either driver.


:up: Unbelievable incompetence.

#1404 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,246 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:23

I will never buy a Mercedes...

#1405 Vic Vega

Vic Vega
  • Member

  • 196 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:24

BAR Honda and one stopper. Silly rabbits...

#1406 FlashMaster

FlashMaster
  • Member

  • 1,901 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:24

Mercedes strategists

Posted Image

#1407 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:35

Car was not so bad on race pace, with two stop strategy they could battle for 3rd. I hope he will keep 7th now(no penalty).

Edited by ivand911, 02 September 2012 - 13:37.


#1408 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:39

Desperate times do require desperate measures, which sometimes they do work, sometimes they do not. I give them + point for trying to salvage what was initially appearing a disastrous weekend. At the end it could have ended much worse than it has.

Edited by Sakae, 02 September 2012 - 13:40.


#1409 anbeck

anbeck
  • Member

  • 2,029 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:40

Meme caption:

"Car is better than expected...."

"... team does everything it can to finish in usual bad position anyway."



#1410 Urawa

Urawa
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:40

They were quite fast today, only McLaren (and Red Bull) were clearly faster and they threw it away with the stupid strategy.

#1411 weston

weston
  • Member

  • 371 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:43

Desperate times do require desperate measures, which sometimes they do work, sometimes they do not. I give them + point for trying to salvage what was initially appearing a disastrous weekend. At the end it could have ended much worse than it has.


... and it could have ended much better than this.

(When you have a tyre eater car you do not even try to think of a one-stopper).

#1412 black magic

black magic
  • Member

  • 3,880 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 02 September 2012 - 13:43

Yes but haven gotten the huge break and being faster than raikkonen and hulkenberg there was no need to stick with the gamble. They let the hulkenberg, massa, webber guys do too many quicker laps on their fresher 1sr change to hards.
Is ross just divorced from all decision making or what is going on

#1413 skonks

skonks
  • Member

  • 925 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:22

what happened to the shit box near the end? Lost some gears? :rolleyes:

#1414 finignig

finignig
  • Member

  • 386 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:23

- Qualifying blunder

- Bad strategy

- Unreliable CAR(S)!

even the pitstops are slow!

Ross needs to break the silence, the PR talk wont do it anymore. It will just make Mercedes look like bigger idiots than they already do!

#1415 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,351 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:32

Without Grosjean, it would have been nil points for Mercedes. The car isn't worthy of Michaels form this season.

#1416 jjpm

jjpm
  • Member

  • 239 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:42

and 1 less trouble for Schum : only 6 instead of 7 gears should make life easier and quicker, no? new gear box from MGP is A-ok :rolleyes:

Edited by jjpm, 02 September 2012 - 14:44.


#1417 rog

rog
  • Member

  • 908 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:43

Nice strategy and another gearbox issue. Well done.

#1418 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,784 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:45

I don't think they could have done better than 5th with a different strategy. they took a gamble, hell, it's not like it would cost them the championship.
michael was great today, did what he could
considering the gearbox troubles I think even with a good strategy 7th would have been their spot

#1419 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,561 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:47

And an engine change for Michael in parc ferme.

This car is brilliant. I wish though RB and NH just admit they screwed up the strategy and don't annoy us with stupid PR BS.

Advertisement

#1420 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,588 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:51

And an engine change for Michael in parc ferme.

This car is brilliant. I wish though RB and NH just admit they screwed up the strategy and don't annoy us with stupid PR BS.


What engine change? That would have resulted in a grid penalty.

#1421 sharo

sharo
  • Member

  • 1,791 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:53

What engine change? That would have resulted in a grid penalty.

C'mon, everyone should have learned the rules by now.

#1422 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,561 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 02 September 2012 - 14:54

What engine change? That would have resulted in a grid penalty.


Nope.
http://www.jamesalle...-what-it-means/

#1423 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 September 2012 - 17:26

So they have a new engine ,that break? Shit. Because they usually use new engine for Spa. Then he used another engine, but I guess not on 100%. Clearly that change didn't help. And after that the gearbox. I hope they have way to repair it without penalty.

Edited by ivand911, 02 September 2012 - 17:27.


#1424 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,944 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 02 September 2012 - 19:32

Mercedes done 20 laps on Medium tyres on heavy fuel tanks, of course the car was capable of doing 24 laps on Hard tyres on a low fuel load. If Schumacher didn't lose sixth gear he would have finished third or fourth; he definitely would've beaten Hulkenburg, Raikkonen is questionable.

While I am disappointed with the ultimate result, I'm almost glad that Mercedes finally found some decent pace in the race.

#1425 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 1,903 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 02 September 2012 - 19:33

Schumi keeps getting assfu**** by Mercedes.

#1426 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,578 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:30

Mercedes done 20 laps on Medium tyres on heavy fuel tanks, of course the car was capable of doing 24 laps on Hard tyres on a low fuel load. If Schumacher didn't lose sixth gear he would have finished third or fourth; he definitely would've beaten Hulkenburg, Raikkonen is questionable.

While I am disappointed with the ultimate result, I'm almost glad that Mercedes finally found some decent pace in the race.


It seems the car can handle one pace, while the rest improves. Sure he could have done 24 laps, but he stayed in the 1:55-56 with that and the rest were 2 secs/lap faster. So it would bring them nothing.

But who over there thinks their tire-chewing car is good for one stop? In the old Benetton days, they used to do one extra stop for fresher tires. Why don't they engineer their race pace around that? They are a bit adrift on all fronts. The car isn't fast, it chews tires, strategy is often a no-no and it is the most unreliable car on the grid.

Way to go... I guess the Mercedes brand will be gone next year and it will be dubbed AMG only.

#1427 FlashMaster

FlashMaster
  • Member

  • 1,901 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:53

Mercedes done 20 laps on Medium tyres on heavy fuel tanks, of course the car was capable of doing 24 laps on Hard tyres on a low fuel load. If Schumacher didn't lose sixth gear he would have finished third or fourth; he definitely would've beaten Hulkenburg, Raikkonen is questionable.

While I am disappointed with the ultimate result, I'm almost glad that Mercedes finally found some decent pace in the race.


Rosberg's first stint on hards showed the team that their pace dropped already before lap 20. But hey, they're an amateur team...

#1428 SpeedRacer`

SpeedRacer`
  • Member

  • 783 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 03 September 2012 - 09:56

Rosberg's first stint on hards showed the team that their pace dropped already before lap 20. But hey, they're an amateur team...

Not only that, but I see Norbert described Schumacher's tyres as being "26 laps old" when the others caught him meaning they had already been heavily scrubbed and presumably used in Q1.

I cannot fathom how they thought it was going to work...

#1429 rt99

rt99
  • Member

  • 180 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 03 September 2012 - 10:02

Is Brawn still the strategy guy at Merc? Perhaps the £110 million he sold his £1 team for has gone to his head?

#1430 Schumacher7

Schumacher7
  • Member

  • 714 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:11

Is Brawn still the strategy guy at Merc? Perhaps the £110 million he sold his £1 team for has gone to his head?

No he's not, don't think he ever has been for Merc.

#1431 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,578 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:26

Not only that, but I see Norbert described Schumacher's tyres as being "26 laps old" when the others caught him meaning they had already been heavily scrubbed and presumably used in Q1.

I cannot fathom how they thought it was going to work...


They should have had a new set remaining, he didn't get past Q2. Or did they 'misplace' those tires? Anyhow, IMO a few things could happen.
- Mercedes pulls the plug and rebadge the team AMG
- Mercedes leaves F1 alltoghether
- Mercedes moves the team to Germany. I never read about this option, but why are the Brits working on a German car? They have lots of expert technicians in Germany. I don't get that. Testing is so limited, so you don't have to build your cars near Silverstone.

#1432 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:44

They should have had a new set remaining, he didn't get past Q2. Or did they 'misplace' those tires? Anyhow, IMO a few things could happen.
- Mercedes pulls the plug and rebadge the team AMG
- Mercedes leaves F1 alltoghether
- Mercedes moves the team to Germany. I never read about this option, but why are the Brits working on a German car? They have lots of expert technicians in Germany. I don't get that. Testing is so limited, so you don't have to build your cars near Silverstone.


Really? Name them then.

Mercedes team is based in UK but that doesn't mean that whole staff are British. F1 extremely international, where people come froma many many countries.

In what way abaddoning multi milion dollars facilities and building them from scratch in Germany would benefit Mercedes?

Edited by korzeniow, 03 September 2012 - 11:44.


#1433 Matt Somers

Matt Somers
  • Member

  • 555 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 03 September 2012 - 12:03

As the system never made it to the car for Qually / Race due to lack of testing on Friday Mercedes DRD had little mainstream exposure but due to my tie in with Sutton Images and the great shot that Kiril already showed you I have added the Mercedes Drag Reduction Device to the Lotus article I was already writing (my previous articles had become a little protracted) but as TimStr says Mercedes have good knowledge of passive systems having ran their own during 2010 instead of the usual shark fin F ducts of that year.

Here's my take on the Lotus / Mercedes DRD (Drag Reduction Device): http://somersf1.blog...-reduction.html

Edited by Matt Somers, 03 September 2012 - 12:03.


#1434 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,578 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 03 September 2012 - 13:10

Really? Name them then.

Mercedes team is based in UK but that doesn't mean that whole staff are British. F1 extremely international, where people come froma many many countries.

In what way abaddoning multi milion dollars facilities and building them from scratch in Germany would benefit Mercedes?


Since the facilities they have been using for 12ish years as BAR-HONDA-BRAWN-MERC doesn't seem to work fairly well. There used to be a Toyota plant in Germany for F1.

And I don't know members by name. :p

#1435 Jejking

Jejking
  • Member

  • 2,441 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 03 September 2012 - 13:24

They should have had a new set remaining, he didn't get past Q2. Or did they 'misplace' those tires? Anyhow, IMO a few things could happen.
- Mercedes pulls the plug and rebadge the team AMG
- Mercedes leaves F1 alltoghether
- Mercedes moves the team to Germany. I never read about this option, but why are the Brits working on a German car? They have lots of expert technicians in Germany. I don't get that. Testing is so limited, so you don't have to build your cars near Silverstone.

Why would they take option 3? English guys and non-Italian peeps were leading projects like the F2002 and F2004 in the emotional, passionate zone of the Italians. That wasn't that unsuccessful, was it?

Edited by Jejking, 03 September 2012 - 13:24.


#1436 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,214 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 03 September 2012 - 13:31

Really? Name them then.

Mercedes team is based in UK but that doesn't mean that whole staff are British. F1 extremely international, where people come froma many many countries.

In what way abaddoning multi milion dollars facilities and building them from scratch in Germany would benefit Mercedes?


I think the tacit point he's trying to make is to leave all the BAR/Honda DNA behind and start over in all but name. Thereby using (figurative) 'born and bred' Mercedes engineers rather than ex-honda ones.

I'm surprised this has to be explained to you, aren't you usually somewhat vocal about the staff being infested with Honda mediocrity?

#1437 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,799 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 03 September 2012 - 14:39

There used to be a Toyota plant in Germany for F1.

Yes, and look at the stunning success which that facility achieved.

#1438 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,380 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 03 September 2012 - 14:59

Toyota was improving year after year before they leave. In 2009 they were very dangerous.

#1439 Icicle

Icicle
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 03 September 2012 - 15:32

I am trying to figure out which driver Mercedes is trying to cover for, by pitting Schumacher so late in to first stint. Did he gain any track advantage by pitting late?

Advertisement

#1440 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,861 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 03 September 2012 - 16:08

I think the tacit point he's trying to make is to leave all the BAR/Honda DNA behind and start over in all but name. Thereby using (figurative) 'born and bred' Mercedes engineers rather than ex-honda ones.

I'm surprised this has to be explained to you, aren't you usually somewhat vocal about the staff being infested with Honda mediocrity?

Honda mediocrity? Stop blaming Honda. I find it a cheap shot and a baseless excuse.

It's the Honda DNA that won Brawn the 2009 championship.
Now it's Mercedes's turn to prove they can do the same.

M-AMG GP have very close R&D and engineering ties with Mercedes R&D centers in Stuttgart and Sindelfingen and the powertrain group in Brixworth.
So that cannot be an excuse.

The slump has everything to do with Mercedes's low level of spending since 2009. Last year they realized they had to up their game and they started to increase spending, but it takes time to see the effects.

Edited by Timstr11, 03 September 2012 - 16:20.


#1441 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,784 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 03 September 2012 - 16:19

I am trying to figure out which driver Mercedes is trying to cover for, by pitting Schumacher so late in to first stint. Did he gain any track advantage by pitting late?

They tried to go for 1 stop only

#1442 jjpm

jjpm
  • Member

  • 239 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 04 September 2012 - 13:46

Interesting comments from Ross B.:

Mercedes investigating whether wrong set-up is to blame for recent slump

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102233

#1443 schubacca

schubacca
  • Member

  • 799 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 04 September 2012 - 13:52

Interesting comments from Ross B.:

Mercedes investigating whether wrong set-up is to blame for recent slump

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102233


Yep, after a 4 week break..... Now they are pondering this question......

#1444 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,214 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 04 September 2012 - 15:17

Honda mediocrity? Stop blaming Honda. I find it a cheap shot and a baseless excuse.


Hey I'm not doing any blaming, merely communicating a common perception. I think it's BS just as much as you do.

Not sure who is misunderstaning whom...

#1445 ali_M

ali_M
  • Member

  • 1,115 posts
  • Joined: April 03

Posted 04 September 2012 - 15:44

Interesting comments from Ross B.:

Mercedes investigating whether wrong set-up is to blame for recent slump

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102233


He may be watching Button's resurgence and rightfully pondering this.

This season has been so weird for many. Button and his engineers had a tough period and the only things that convinced them of setup issues was Button's ability as well as the performance of Hamilton in the sister car.

Mercedes has been having pace issues with both cars. As far as I know, both Rosberg and Michael tend to take similar setup directions. As a result, they'll likely both have the same issues, understandably leading to the assumption of fundamental issues with the car.

Button and McLaren couldn't have improved the way they did based on car development alone.

#1446 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,183 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 04 September 2012 - 16:24

They had a similar brain-wave in 2010 and discovered that even though they stopped developing their car, with the right set up it could prove very competitive.

Hard to believe that 2 years later, they're going through the same motions.....again.

Does this team learn nothing from the past?

#1447 Kompressor

Kompressor
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 04 September 2012 - 16:46

He may be watching Button's resurgence and rightfully pondering this.

This season has been so weird for many. Button and his engineers had a tough period and the only things that convinced them of setup issues was Button's ability as well as the performance of Hamilton in the sister car.

Mercedes has been having pace issues with both cars. As far as I know, both Rosberg and Michael tend to take similar setup directions. As a result, they'll likely both have the same issues, understandably leading to the assumption of fundamental issues with the car.

Button and McLaren couldn't have improved the way they did based on car development alone.

Button was using a new rear wing while Hamilton had the old one. Rosberg and Schumacher might have similar setups but they aren't identical. http://www.motorspor...video-syndrome/
Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 has failed to develop a successful update for the W03. I'm not enjoying their races at the moment. I was hoping to see some technical developments that would improve their form.


#1448 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 04 September 2012 - 18:04

Button, while in the slump, seems to be fingerpointing towards wrong setup on his McLaren. Seb too had wrong setup on a few occassions, thus it's not like Mercedes is employing bunch of idiots on inside, and everyone else in the paddock is immune to wrong trials. Lack of testing between races is not very helpful here, is it?

#1449 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,214 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 04 September 2012 - 18:32

Button was using a new rear wing while Hamilton had the old one. Rosberg and Schumacher might have similar setups but they aren't identical. http://www.motorspor...video-syndrome/
Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 has failed to develop a successful update for the W03. I'm not enjoying their races at the moment. I was hoping to see some technical developments that would improve their form.


Well thats a bit unfair, isnt it? I think their Monaco update was pretty decent. Sure, not much, if anything has happened since. But my point is they definitely have developed a successful update. Just saying...

#1450 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,861 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 04 September 2012 - 19:46

Hey I'm not doing any blaming, merely communicating a common perception. I think it's BS just as much as you do.

Not sure who is misunderstaning whom...

Apologies if I misunderstood you.
I just find it disingenuous when MAMG's difficulties are apportioned to former owners.

People seem to forget it took Redbull 5 years to turn Jaguar into a winning team.
This is only the 3rd year for Mercedes as team owner.

Edited by Timstr11, 04 September 2012 - 19:47.