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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#1601 Junky

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:28

Mercedes, the tire eater car.

I feel bad for both drivers.

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#1602 FlashMaster

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:29

Don't blame Michael, not his fault the car is a shitbox.


Please read my post. I never blamed Schumi. This team doesn't deserve a champion like Michael.

#1603 TBoy

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:33

Looks like hard tyre works better for them. Michael driving great.

#1604 DS27

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:33

Slow race pace - check
Eating tyres - check
Another weekend that I kidded myself a podium was possible - check

#1605 Longtimefan

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 12:34

Please read my post. I never blamed Schumi. This team doesn't deserve a champion like Michael.

Sorry and I agree 100%

#1606 Timstr11

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 13:27

Pity about the first stint.
They seem to have trouble getting the tyre to work from the start of the grid.
The second and third stint were excellent, but they lost too much in the first stint.

#1607 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 13:42

Why did they not put the mediums on for the final stint...? Surely they saw Perez doing fastest lap after fastest lap on them and thought we'll have a bit of that?

#1608 Sakae

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 13:47

Placing as predicted, yet somehow I do not derive pleasure of it. I am hoping that this will be not the last straw for Michael...

#1609 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 13:51

Placing as predicted, yet somehow I do not derive pleasure of it. I am hoping that this will be not the last straw for Michael...


You should, though. They got the max out of the car as it is.

#1610 BetaVersion

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:02

Slow race pace - check
Eating tyres - check
Another weekend that I kidded myself a podium was possible - check


I told you guys :o

If it wasn't for Grosjean, Sauber would be already ahead of Mercedes in WCC. Their car is waaaaay better than Mercedes'

Edited by BetaVersion, 09 September 2012 - 14:04.


#1611 Sof1

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:02

What more can Schumacher do. This car is a failure. Imagine what the result would be if they could pull off a 1 stopper like everyone else!

#1612 race addicted

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:06

I'm relieved to see Mercedes going for one stop more, 'cause that's very often what will work for them. Too often they've insisted on mirroring the others even when their tyre-management isn't up to it, and it's been annoying to watch! Two-stopping today was absolutely right for them.

Entertaining to see Schumacher letting the rear out every time he exited the second chicane!

#1613 BetaVersion

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:06

In Singapore, a street track with low track temperatures, the car can be quite decent(Top 8-like), but in Suzuka they will be eaten for breakfast in the aero demanding corners

#1614 sharo

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:09

We hope for the so much talked big Singapore upgrade.

#1615 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:10

In Singapore, a street track with low track temperatures, the car can be quite decent(Top 8-like), but in Suzuka they will be eaten for breakfast in the aero demanding corners


That depends what car they come up with for Singapore and onward.


#1616 ali.unal

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:14

Sauber managed to get 2nd place in Monza, 13 race after Malaysian GP where they also took 2nd place.
Mercedes couldn't event think about podiums 10 race after Chinese GP where they won.

On the one hand, Sauber and on the other hand, Mercedes. It's incredible how Sauber could still develop their car, whereas Mercedes is nowhere near their 4 months earlier pace.

#1617 tarmac

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:40

Why did they not put the mediums on for the final stint...? Surely they saw Perez doing fastest lap after fastest lap on them and thought we'll have a bit of that?


Perez didnt make Q3 so had new mediums

If Perez started in top 10 i doubt he had that pace starting on used mediums and not new hards

Edited by tarmac, 09 September 2012 - 14:41.


#1618 Fildischum

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:47

Perez didnt make Q3 so had new mediums

If Perez started in top 10 i doubt he had that pace starting on used mediums and not new hards


This, you only to have to look at where kobayashi eneded considering he was in the top 10 in quali. Nonetheless, sauber have a car to capitalize on that consequence whereas mercedes would still be having problems with that strategy.

#1619 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:49

Perez didnt make Q3 so had new mediums

If Perez started in top 10 i doubt he had that pace starting on used mediums and not new hards

People were saying that Mercedes only did one run in Q3 and as such saved a fresh set of mediums. Is this incorrect?

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#1620 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:50

This, you only to have to look at where kobayashi eneded considering he was in the top 10 in quali. Nonetheless, sauber have a car to capitalize on that consequence whereas mercedes would still be having problems with that strategy.

That wasn't what I said, Merc went Med/Hard/Hard, I was wondering why they didn't go Med/Hard/Med.

#1621 Clatter

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:55

People were saying that Mercedes only did one run in Q3 and as such saved a fresh set of mediums. Is this incorrect?


I thought they used a set in each session. Could well be wrong though. But I think the bigger issue is that the car eats the tyres making the hards the safer route for them.

#1622 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:57

I thought they used a set in each session. Could well be wrong though. But I think the bigger issue is that the car eats the tyres making the hards the safer route for them.

Not in Q1.

#1623 Fildischum

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 14:59

That wasn't what I said, Merc went Med/Hard/Hard, I was wondering why they didn't go Med/Hard/Med.


Sorry mate, but i was not replying to you. I was just mearly pointing that if perez have gotten in the top 10 in quali i think the podium is not possible for them, but given how suabers nurses their tyre, they made it work. And you are right about michael not having to put the medium on the final stint. Im now waiting for the teams qoutes about that.

#1624 BetaVersion

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:06

Perez didnt make Q3 so had new mediums

If Perez started in top 10 i doubt he had that pace starting on used mediums and not new hards


I think MSC used only 2 new sets of mediums on quali, which would mean he used a new one as well in his second stint?

Sorry mate, but i was not replying to you. I was just mearly pointing that if perez have gotten in the top 10 in quali i think the podium is not possible for them, but given how suabers nurses their tyre, they made it work. And you are right about michael not having to put the medium on the final stint. Im now waiting for the teams qoutes about that.


Anyway, MSC and everybody had new sets of hards for the race, as Perez, and nobody could make them last as much as him, with such a competitive pace. He did 30 laps starting on full tank, and was quite quick over that stint. Everybody else couldn't be relatively as quick with their new hards on their second stints

It's wasn't because of having new sets of tires or not, this time. Their car really managed the tires better today

Edited by BetaVersion, 09 September 2012 - 15:10.


#1625 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:07

I think MSC used only 2 new sets of mediums on quali, which would mean he used a new one as well in his second stint?

He was on hards for his second and third stints.

#1626 Paa

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:17

I don't think Hamilton would be fool enough to switch to this team.


edit: also I'm afraid Schu won't be fool enough to stay :S

Edited by Paa, 09 September 2012 - 15:18.


#1627 Sakae

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 15:30

Sauber managed to get 2nd place in Monza, 13 race after Malaysian GP where they also took 2nd place.
Mercedes couldn't event think about podiums 10 race after Chinese GP where they won.

On the one hand, Sauber and on the other hand, Mercedes. It's incredible how Sauber could still develop their car, whereas Mercedes is nowhere near their 4 months earlier pace.

Intagibles. Steady, focused and cohesive team that is together for some time, whereas AMG went through several high impact, jerking events. Peter Sauber's calming influence and quick access is definitely major benefit as well. In the final analysis however, a little bit of luck played into their hands as well. That being said, I have not expected Perez on podium, since in theory Massa, Alonso, and McLaren should have taken care of it. It shows us again, that theory is just that - a theory.

#1628 jjpm

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 16:00

I believe that Singapore is going to be where Michael will decide to stay or to leave.
As was pinpointed here by ivand911, earlier, that's where the first upgrade package since Monaco will be applied permitting to make it a W03B.

If the W03B delivers the expected performance we should be enjoying Schumacher's driving for another season at least...
If not he will announce its departure at the end of the 2012's season and Mercedes will play whatever they want for their drivers lineup 2013/2014.



#1629 BetaVersion

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 17:33

He was on hards for his second and third stints.

yeah, my bad.



#1630 exmayol

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 18:32

Glad we scored some point but seriously p6 and p7 after JB and SV retiring is pretty poor. Onto Singapore...

#1631 Schumacher7

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 19:34

Glad we scored some point but seriously p6 and p7 after JB and SV retiring is pretty poor. Onto Singapore...

Would have beaten Vettel anyway. Although not if he hadn't had the drive through.

#1632 Sakae

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 20:17

I believe that Singapore is going to be where Michael will decide to stay or to leave.
As was pinpointed here by ivand911, earlier, that's where the first upgrade package since Monaco will be applied permitting to make it a W03B.

If the W03B delivers the expected performance we should be enjoying Schumacher's driving for another season at least...
If not he will announce its departure at the end of the 2012's season and Mercedes will play whatever they want for their drivers lineup 2013/2014.

So, I take it you do not think he has made his mind yet? I am just wondering, because Ross indicated this wekend, that future between Michael and AMG is not up to Michael only. (I am not sure of he was reffering to Management job, or driving for AMG next year). Point is, if Michael tells them only late this month, and others have to still consider it, then we will be looking for a decision late in Oct., yet rumour is, that announcement is close. I can't wait.

Edited by Sakae, 09 September 2012 - 20:18.


#1633 Pits

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 20:45

So, I take it you do not think he has made his mind yet? I am just wondering, because Ross indicated this wekend, that future between Michael and AMG is not up to Michael only. (I am not sure of he was reffering to Management job, or driving for AMG next year). Point is, if Michael tells them only late this month, and others have to still consider it, then we will be looking for a decision late in Oct., yet rumour is, that announcement is close. I can't wait.


What rumour did you here than? Share info pls... :smoking:

#1634 Obi Offiah

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 21:44

I initially posted this in the McLaren thread, but its perhaps more relevant here:

I wonder what the read on the tyres is now? We don't seem to be hearing so much about them at the moment (or perhaps I just have a short memory) and I wonder if the teams and drivers have really started to get a handle on them. It was Mercedes who quite early on were saying that they were just around the corner from cracking the tyres, but they appear to be suffering quite a bit with degradation. Maybe there's a more fundamental issue with the car that is the problem.

#1635 jjpm

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 22:55

So, I take it you do not think he has made his mind yet? I am just wondering, because Ross indicated this wekend, that future between Michael and AMG is not up to Michael only. (I am not sure of he was reffering to Management job, or driving for AMG next year). Point is, if Michael tells them only late this month, and others have to still consider it, then we will be looking for a decision late in Oct., yet rumour is, that announcement is close. I can't wait.


IMO Ross know perfectly well that Schumacher will not commit unless he can make his own mind on the potential of the W04 for 2013 which the expected upgrade W03B would be an early version, on the other hand Ross may not be to happy about Michael's chat with Bernie on the contract situation, Ross knows quite well how Bernie can and will manipulate information to its benefit... As expected the day after Bernie lets the cats out with Eddie Jordan during an interview probably orchestrated by Bernie himself resulting in added pressure on all parties from the team and outside as well.
According to Eddie the close announcement you mention was told to him by Simon Fuller (Hamilton's manager), for Fuller no doubt that this Bernie's originating rumors increases its bargaining options with McLaren and whom ever is concerned.
In any cases Mercedes AMG has to look for a top driver for 2014 or 2015 and after and perhaps for 2013 too.
Ross also said that keeping Michael on board for 2013 and 2014 would be a really strong advantage especially with the new engine coming.

The other close announcement is related to Mercedes signing the new Concorde agreement (2012-2020) thus confirming their commitment to F1.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102297

Edited by jjpm, 10 September 2012 - 04:19.


#1636 Kingshark

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 00:20

The pace of the car was not bad today. Better than I expected.

Based on how Monaco went, I think Singapore should suit Mercedes well, maybe not good enough for the top 3 but they should be decent. Though they'll get eaten up alive in Suzuka though.

#1637 BigCHrome

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:14

I wonder why Merc has never tried the trick exhaust placement.

#1638 Sakae

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:05

IMO Ross know perfectly well that Schumacher will not commit unless he can make his own mind on the potential of the W04 for 2013 which the expected upgrade W03B would be an early version, on the other hand Ross may not be to happy about Michael's chat with Bernie on the contract situation, Ross knows quite well how Bernie can and will manipulate information to its benefit... As expected the day after Bernie lets the cats out with Eddie Jordan during an interview probably orchestrated by Bernie himself resulting in added pressure on all parties from the team and outside as well.
According to Eddie the close announcement you mention was told to him by Simon Fuller (Hamilton's manager), for Fuller no doubt that this Bernie's originating rumors increases its bargaining options with McLaren and whom ever is concerned.
In any cases Mercedes AMG has to look for a top driver for 2014 or 2015 and after and perhaps for 2013 too.
Ross also said that keeping Michael on board for 2013 and 2014 would be a really strong advantage especially with the new engine coming.

The other close announcement is related to Mercedes signing the new Concorde agreement (2012-2020) thus confirming their commitment to F1.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102297

Thanks, yours is an interesting observation about chat between Michael and Ecclestone. I might have underestimated significance of it in relationship to negotiations. On subject of Hamilton I am hoping Ross was merely keeping conversation going, because I cannot believe they would hire a xxxx who might potentially require couple of psychiatrists and lawyers to police him on full time basis just to ensure, that he doesn't embarrasses whole establishment.
(The rest, unfortunately, they are blocking my access, thus I cannot read Autosport pages anymore, unless I pay a fee, which I haven't, and will not. :) )

Edited by Sakae, 10 September 2012 - 06:17.


#1639 Slowinfastout

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:27

I know you were wondering about Williams, so here it is: http://uk.reuters.co...E88908520120910

Williams got their candy and is signed up. Only Mercedes hasn't signed yet.

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#1640 Timstr11

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:17

I wonder why Merc has never tried the trick exhaust placement.

I have a feeling they will be late to the party and try it at the 3-day Magny Cours test which starts tomorrow.


#1641 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:33

Just heard a radio call that's nice, that we havn't heard in a long time "pick up the pace now michael, 3 quali laps"

That was a very odd call when the home viewer could see Michael over steering wildy over every exit kerb already!

#1642 Clatter

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:36

That was a very odd call when the home viewer could see Michael over steering wildy over every exit kerb already!


There's a delay in when we get to hear the radio messages so what we saw could be a result of trying to push.

#1643 jjpm

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:52

I just came across this link and the opinion expressed by Hay-Nicholls about Hamilton Schumacher Bernie Haug & Mercedes

http://mag.gpweek.com/#folio=20

Edited by jjpm, 10 September 2012 - 12:53.


#1644 Sof1

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:10

I just came across this link and the opinion expressed by Hay-Nicholls about Hamilton Schumacher Bernie Haug & Mercedes

http://mag.gpweek.com/#folio=20

Its all bull imho. I think Schumacher will re-sign and Hamilton is staying at Mclaren.

Edited by Sof1, 10 September 2012 - 16:20.


#1645 BiH

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:38

I just came across this link and the opinion expressed by Hay-Nicholls about Hamilton Schumacher Bernie Haug & Mercedes

http://mag.gpweek.com/#folio=20


Not far from truth lets face it Mercedes is getting very close to mirroring what BMW did few years ago. Theissen was in same situation had top drivers but no car to get results and Haug is no different.
As for Schumacher staying I think decision has been already made probably months ago and same with Lewis.

.........The WO3 sucks just like W02,W01 and next season will be another disappointment.

#1646 Timstr11

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:49

So confirmed by Brawn that a Coanda type exhaust to be tested alongside the Lotus-type DRS tomorrow.
They've recently moved from a 50% windtunnel model to a 60% windtunnel model and Brawn explained that that gives them a better understanding of the positive effects of the coanda type exhaust.
So this explains why they did not see the positive effect of the coanda type exhaust before.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102447

Edited by Timstr11, 10 September 2012 - 17:20.


#1647 KiloWatt

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:54

IMO Ross know perfectly well that Schumacher will not commit unless he can make his own mind on the potential of the W04 for 2013 which the expected upgrade W03B would be an early version


I may be a bit late to the party here, but was this statement not simply a run of the mill Autosport BB rumour? Or am I missing something?

#1648 Sakae

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:03

I just came across this link and the opinion expressed by Hay-Nicholls about Hamilton Schumacher Bernie Haug & Mercedes

http://mag.gpweek.com/#folio=20

Jobs like Norbert has are always performance oriented and conditioned. If he gets replaced, surely not because of Hamilton not driving for M-AMG. Anyone who knows anything about large corporations would know that. Besides, we do not know what Norbert really wants. Maybe his family might be first to decide on his priorities. There are many items we know nothing about, and inflamatory articles...

#1649 Schumacher7

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:15

I may be a bit late to the party here, but was this statement not simply a run of the mill Autosport BB rumour? Or am I missing something?

Schumacher said big upgrades for Singapore I believe.

#1650 KiloWatt

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:27

Schumacher said big upgrades for Singapore I believe.


Yes THAT I did see, but nowhere that the W03 upgrade is a precursor to the W04.