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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#1751 ivand911

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:24

They don't seem to be doing that well in FP1.

Outside top 10.

To much job with new updates. They are not doing set up for the moment.
No cascades for now on FW.


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#1752 Sof1

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:25

To much job with new updates. They are not doing set up for the moment.
No cascades for now on FW.

So you think they are just testing upgrades and not looking to do fast times?

#1753 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:26

They don't seem to be doing that well in FP1.

Outside top 10.


Early days yet. You wait till 2013....or should that be 2014? :confused:


I jest. I hope they have a Monaco esque type of performance. The Merc has always been strong on traction and braking.

#1754 ivand911

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 11:29

So you think they are just testing upgrades and not looking to do fast times?

I think we will see more representative times in FP2 and FP3. Or maybe not. Will see.
They did a lot of laps, which is good. And they didn't put yet new high downforce FW. I hope they will use this FW.
And I just saw that some drivers used SS tyres.

Edited by ivand911, 21 September 2012 - 11:34.


#1755 korzeniow

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:27

clever brake ducts:

Posted Image

something something dark side:

Posted Image

Edited by korzeniow, 21 September 2012 - 12:28.


#1756 GoRacing

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:28

Michael's lap on SS tyres is way too slow compare to the fastest lap. Are they running without the new exhausts? Or there is nothing to gain from it?

Edited by GoRacing, 21 September 2012 - 14:29.


#1757 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:30

Speculations are being reported as rampant at Singapore about Mercedes witdrawing from F1. Number of voices about Michael needing to start shoping around are also increasing. (Dr. Marko is apparently getting into this act as well). It's hard to distinguish between opinions and facts. Fact is, that Haug has neither confirmed, or denied rumours about Hamilton, which is probably correct responses to barage of questions from media.

#1758 Talryyn

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:32

Speculations are being reported as rampant at Singapore about Mercedes witdrawing from F1. Number of voices about Michael needing to start shoping around are also increasing. (Dr. Marko is apparently getting into this act as well). It's hard to distinguish between opinions and facts. Fact is, that Haug has neither confirmed, or denied rumours about Hamilton, which is probably correct responses to barage of questions from media.

Just said on Speed that Coca-cola is planning to buy Monster (maybe) and this will be the deal that allows Hamilton to go to Merc. So they can take the fight to Red Bull Drinks. So the reason for MS to exit is due to Monster and Hamilton.

Edited by Talryyn, 21 September 2012 - 14:33.


#1759 TifosiUSA

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:39

GAH, go to McLaren Michael!

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#1760 1Devil1

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:41

doesn't look good :|

#1761 Talryyn

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:41

GAH, go to McLaren Michael!


Or go have fun at Sauber, but would love to see him in the other Merc.


Edit: It seems like they are doing heavy runs, anyone know how the times look to others on heavy loads?

Edited by Talryyn, 21 September 2012 - 14:43.


#1762 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:47

Things are then getting really serious if AMuS got involved about this, for they are well respected media source which makes you pause, and listen what they have to say.

#1763 ali.unal

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:47

Or go have fun at Sauber, but would love to see him in the other Merc.

Edit: It seems like they are doing heavy runs, anyone know how the times look to others on heavy loads?

First impression: McLaren and Lotus fastest. Red Bull and Force India. Mercedes way too slow seemingly. Don't know Ferrari.

#1764 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:49

Vettel on the top 11 min to go. RBR is not out of it yet. Mercedes is testing race set up (I think).

#1765 rog

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:50

If they had low fuel on their fast SS lap, then it's not looking good. A whole second off the pace.

#1766 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:53

Just said on Speed that Coca-cola is planning to buy Monster (maybe) and this will be the deal that allows Hamilton to go to Merc. So they can take the fight to Red Bull Drinks. So the reason for MS to exit is due to Monster and Hamilton.

I love it, this is the silly season that just keeps on giving. It's going to be like Coke vs Pepsi 'war', but without all the lame TV ads. !However, it's not that surprising though when all these manufacturers come in, don't have instant success and decide to quit. I'm slightly surprised with Hamilton though after his comments last year, but if true, Coke/Monster must have long-term plans like Red Bull.

"Red Bull are not a manufacturer, they are a drinks company. It's a drinks company versus McLaren/Ferrari history. I don't know what their plan is. Our team is building to become a bigger manufacturer, like Ferrari, and I can only see our team being there for a ridiculous amount of time. It is a pure-bred racing team."



#1767 Talryyn

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:54

If they had low fuel on their fast SS lap, then it's not looking good. A whole second off the pace.


I keep waiting to be surprised, but maybe nothing is surprising as sadly has been the trend. I still hope for something that MS can work with and get in the top three.

#1768 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:56

Things are then getting really serious if AMuS got involved about this, for they are well respected media source which makes you pause, and listen what they have to say.



Well, AMuS is not that respected as a news source this season. Especially in the case of Merc. It is AMuS-ing to see them playing the guessing game, nothing is coming out of Merc, they are very tight-lipped all year. Second-guessing on third rate rumors will lead you nowhere. So far, the only official information is that they do not intend to withdraw, rename, or anything of the sort. As far as I'm concerned, they will be on the grid for the years to come. Tabloid news is no news.

#1769 Talryyn

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 14:57

I love it, this is the silly season that just keeps on giving. It's going to be like Coke vs Pepsi 'war', but without all the lame TV ads. !However, it's not that surprising though when all these manufacturers come in, don't have instant success and decide to quit. I'm slightly surprised with Hamilton though after his comments last year, but if true, Coke/Monster must have long-term plans like Red Bull.


MS does have the cascades on the FW, just looking at a last lap replay and paused it to have a good look.

On the rumors, let's add that the US has two races next year which would then make even more sense for Coca-Cola to enter into things - sure they are global but the market in the US is huge for them.

#1770 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:07

Well, AMuS is not that respected as a news source this season. Especially in the case of Merc. It is AMuS-ing to see them playing the guessing game, nothing is coming out of Merc, they are very tight-lipped all year. Second-guessing on third rate rumors will lead you nowhere. So far, the only official information is that they do not intend to withdraw, rename, or anything of the sort. As far as I'm concerned, they will be on the grid for the years to come. Tabloid news is no news.

I do sort of agree with you, perhaps just because I would like to beleive it. I do however take exception grouping AMuS with tabloids.

#1771 Urawa

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:08

long face by Haug, looks bad

#1772 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:14

I do sort of agree with you, perhaps just because I would like to beleive it. I do however take exception grouping AMuS with tabloids.


The tabloid part was not about AMuS, but the wild theories I have read around here, and on other threads.


#1773 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:16

I am more interested in FP3. We should not forget what was said by both drivers about upgrades; it is a step forward (not a final solution - panacea of a sort), and now they have to work on it, and develop it further. I am not sure what Norbert was expecting, but FP2 could be deceiving. This might have a personal component to it, as this man must be exhausted. Just think of several issues on his desk:
- new engine specs
- CA
- meetings at Stuttgart (facing the music)
- Brackley
- driver situation

... and perhaps a few hundred more. Anyone who worked for several months 120 hrs/week can feel for him. (At least I do).

#1774 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:21

MS does have the cascades on the FW, just looking at a last lap replay and paused it to have a good look.

True, they are a partner of Mercedes. The connection has been there since 2009 as their logo was on Button's helmet during the second half of that season.

On the rumors, let's add that the US has two races next year which would then make even more sense for Coca-Cola to enter into things - sure they are global but the market in the US is huge for them.

I agree with you, these rumours aren't to be dismissed whatsoever. Crazier things have happened. All I meant concerning Hamilton is hopefully if this Monster buyout is true, they don't lose interest and leave. If it is true, hopefully they have long-term ambitions with F1, like Red Bull (although they threaten to leave F1, I don't think they ever will as sport it too important to them).

#1775 exmayol

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 15:29

So far not impressed... but lets wait till FP3.

#1776 rksonAJ

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 17:30

Sakae,
It appears that Mercedes will be signing CA as early as next week.
http://www.auto-moto...-1-5723380.html

#1777 Diablobb81

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 17:31

Sakae,
It appears that Mercedes will be signing CA as early as next week.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/entscheidung-in-stuttgart-mercedes-bleibt-in-der-formel-1-5723380.html


+1 Since you were faster. :)

#1778 anbeck

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 17:33

Speculations are being reported as rampant at Singapore about Mercedes witdrawing from F1. Number of voices about Michael needing to start shoping around are also increasing.


I think it would be for everybody's best if they pulled out (although I do not think that it is very likely - they may think that the 2014 regulations will level the playing field and maybe even bring a cost cap, this is what they have been planning for all the time). But in that case we should hear Rosberg rumours starting to gain momentum any day now.

And if they pull out, it would be funny if Ross Brawn would pull a Brawn for the second time! Maybe with Rosberg, this time!


Optimistic, but cautious - just like the last race..

No harm in hoping one last time I guess.


I like your spirit, but it seems as this will not work out the way even the most pessimistic among the optimists hoped for. :|
Somebody might say "this is only FP, wait for qualy" or "there's no points for qualy, wait for the race", but we've been through this!

#1779 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 17:47

Sakae,
It appears that Mercedes will be signing CA as early as next week.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/entscheidung-in-stuttgart-mercedes-bleibt-in-der-formel-1-5723380.html

Well, as much as I pleased, there is that feared key denominator we are hearing repeatedly, namely, could be signed. I knew about the meeting (I think jjpm mentioned), but it was all tight lips how the meeting ended. Until some big telephone number climes on podium and say its done, then everything can happen. Soon after that silly season will go into overdrive.

Edited by Sakae, 21 September 2012 - 17:52.


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#1780 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 17:50

I think it would be for everybody's best if they pulled out (although I do not think that it is very likely - they may think that the 2014 regulations will level the playing field and maybe even bring a cost cap, this is what they have been planning for all the time). But in that case we should hear Rosberg rumours starting to gain momentum any day now.

And if they pull out, it would be funny if Ros

What about Rosberg?

#1781 spacekid

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 17:58

So.... Mercedes are just about to sign the Concorde Agreement, but are also just about to pull out of the sport, to be taken over by Monster who are about to be bought by Coca-Cola except that deal isn't happening yet, and that will provide the money to put Hamilton in the seat to replace Schumi.

Really?

The Merc looks shit in Singapore. Where they testing any updates? (Have they done any updates, or have they not bothered again?) I do quite like the paintjob against the dark sky though, so its not all bad.

Nico looks better than Michael here, who will be very lucky to make Q3 and probably won't. I expect both drivers to drift out of the points during the race as the car munches on the super soft tyres like the treacle textures treats that they are, before retiring with bad flux capacitors or something.

Do Lewis Hamilton and Coca-Cola know what they are getting themselves into?

Edited by spacekid, 21 September 2012 - 17:59.


#1782 Sakae

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 18:06

Just said on Speed that Coca-cola is planning to buy Monster (maybe) and this will be the deal that allows Hamilton to go to Merc. So they can take the fight to Red Bull Drinks. So the reason for MS to exit is due to Monster and Hamilton.

I did not foolow this. What's the rumour about?
Monster (or Coca) will take over the Merc team as owners, or just continue as a major sponsor with a condition that Hamilton gets in? Do I have it right?

#1783 Talryyn

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 18:34

I did not foolow this. What's the rumour about?
Monster (or Coca) will take over the Merc team as owners, or just continue as a major sponsor with a condition that Hamilton gets in? Do I have it right?


No it just sounded like sponsor money to me, I will rewind to the bit where they were talking about the rumors for the day.


#1784 F1Champion

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 18:41

Based on the car performance, Hamilton is nuts to move...but if it let's Michael go the other way I wouldn't mind.

#1785 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 19:56

Based on the car performance, Hamilton is nuts to move...but if it let's Michael go the other way I wouldn't mind.


Michael at McLaren OMG I would so love that to happen! Sadly theres NO WAY Lewis would leave McLaren for Merc, C'mon.. he'd have to be crazy.


#1786 Sof1

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 20:13

Hamilton would move for keeping the original trophies that Merc will agree to give since they know they will be winning no trophies anyway!



#1787 BetaVersion

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 20:44

If MSC's body language is anything to go by, the updates are frustrating.....

Or maybe it's just something else upsetting Micheal. If they don't do well in Q tomorrow, then I don't know what will happen to either this team or Schumi

#1788 Talryyn

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 21:08

If MSC's body language is anything to go by, the updates are frustrating.....

Or maybe it's just something else upsetting Micheal. If they don't do well in Q tomorrow, then I don't know what will happen to either this team or Schumi


The Lotus which has looked great at points this season also seems to be having issues here. I would love to see all these cars on some great tyres, as I think some of these cars are truly fantastic and deserve a much better life than they are being given. ;)


#1789 Longtimefan

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 22:12

Michael didn't look too impressed with the car so far.

I'm hoping I'm wrong though :/


#1790 black magic

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 00:55

sadly it just confirms how lost this team is.

rears a problem so the only solution they can find is to take off downforce at the front and so wear ok just slow as hell.

now they add upgrades which aid rear grip and traction and wouldnt you know it - their tyres are degrading too fast again.

fundamentally the chasis and aero cant be right.

and this team has no clue on how to resolve their issues.

now only caterham and marussia slower - man is that embarassing or what.

doesnt hide from the track that it has little redeeming features except the night skyline.

#1791 Sakae

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:31

Also posted in Hamilton to Merc thread

DW | Date 21.09.2012

Auto Industry
Speculation rife about Daimler cost-cutting plan

QUOTE
...Germany's premium carmaker Daimler was planning savings of about 1.0 billion euros ($1.3 billion) under a program called "Fit for Leadership," the German business newspaper "Financial Times Deutschland" (FTD) reported Friday...

...As a result, Daimler Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche said the company was preparing a cost-cutting plan, details of which were scheduled to be unveiled in October...

...Another unidentified source allegedly close to the talks told Reuters news agency that the program would primarily aim to "strengthen productivity" by avoiding doubling up on work, as well as include measures to cut procurement, marketing and administration costs...

uhe/dr (dpa, Reuters)



http://www.dw.de/dw/...6253732,00.html


This does not tames rumours about Hamilton, but it raises question whether Mercedes has re-allocated marketing funds to support Hamilton's profile (on their behalf) in Asia, or all that rumour is just that, baseless rumour. Until we hear the word, it's hard to speculate.

Edited by Sakae, 22 September 2012 - 07:32.


#1792 DutchCruijff

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:51

According to Jordan we'll get our information, on Schumacher's side, on Wednesday.

#1793 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:22

Michael at McLaren OMG I would so love that to happen! Sadly theres NO WAY Lewis would leave McLaren for Merc, C'mon.. he'd have to be crazy.



Lewis Hamilton has the Amir Khan syndrome - he is now chasing the lights, big money and superstardom and his performances will take a hit. So far Hamilton is not cracking, but as speculation rises and XIX, Mclaren and Coca-Cola et al start turning the screws for an answer Lewis will feel it the most.

#1794 Sakae

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:24

I am puzzled about origin of leak-channels to EJ (but one can speculate), however sequence and timing of announcements would be rather bizarre, unless (a) there is an agreement with Ecclestone that a specific statement pertaining to CA will follow on certain time-line, and (b) announcement regarding Hamilton, should he replace Michael in 2013 will be publicly announced more or less in the same time, or soon after Michael’s, as all negotiations has ended, and contract undersigned. That’s if Hamilton replaces Michael. Should he not replace Michael, Schumacher's announcement "I am in" would strengthen McLaren’s hand, because Hamilton could find himself standing, and Michael sitting on the musical chair.

#1795 GoRacing

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:42

Going to be a horrible weekend. Looks like both drivers will be out in Q2.

#1796 Sof1

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:45

The car is way off the pace!

Biggest gap to the front runners this year?

#1797 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:46

The car is way off the pace!

Biggest gap to the front runners this year?



If Schumacher was waiting to see how the updates are to announce is future. Then maybe now we know the answer. Mercedes fail again.

#1798 Longtimefan

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:00

I really don't see us making Q3 today..

So much for the update :(



#1799 Sof1

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:01

The gap between the front runners and the rest of the grid is just HUGE!
This circuit is completely unforgiving.

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#1800 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 11:04

The gap between the front runners and the rest of the grid is just HUGE!
This circuit is completely unforgiving.



This circuit always has had a massive field spread. Expect it tomorrow as well in the race.