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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#1851 Pizdek

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:04

All are blattering this team but we have drivers just like team buisness...

Schumacher is old and Mercedes will be a lot better team without old guy, hes reflexses are over. Retire and please leave us alone... Where is he looking? Get lost already, please...

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#1852 schumimercamg

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:13

All are blattering this team but we have drivers just like team buisness...

Schumacher is old and Mercedes will be a lot better team without old guy, hes reflexses are over. Retire and please leave us alone... Where is he looking? Get lost already, please...


Please use your brain before you post. Old reflexes and a pole around Monaco don't go together.

#1853 Pizdek

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:16

Please use your brain before you post. Old reflexes and a pole around Monaco don't go together.


You guys makes me sick. Conatntlly blattering this team and gloryfing Schumacher. And truth is that he is not material for F1 anymore. Please go away and take him with you.

#1854 sharo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:24

You guys makes me sick. Conatntlly blattering this team and gloryfing Schumacher. And truth is that he is not material for F1 anymore. Please go away and take him with you.

You are absolutely right, Pizdec :)

#1855 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:27

You guys makes me sick. Conatntlly blattering this team and gloryfing Schumacher. And truth is that he is not material for F1 anymore. Please go away and take him with you.

No. There's plenty of proof he's up for it. You leave first and mail the team by the way that BOTH drivers deserve a better car.

#1856 MSCDesign

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:35

For Michael it's a "long time" since DNF. I have a feeling that today it will be a DNF.

Crash or car failure.


:up:

So it was a crash then.

#1857 sanW10

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:37

Posted Image
glad one car finished 5th. MS car had some problem there, even he said in interview that there was 'no deceleration' when he braked, so to try to avoid contact he locked.


#1858 SeanValen

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:41

New upgrades, alot of talk, not fully understood poential.

Team didn't do much different tyre strategy wise. Team has left updates late, because the risk of not understanding them only compounds the work to be done.

Schumacher who was the fastest in quali at Monaco and could of won that race reliability pending, qualifying 9th at singapore, both streets tracks, the development race clearly the team has lost, and even the performance of the car was let down by reliability.

Now more reliability, and less performance.

What has happened to the car poitential since then, there's no point in appyling last minute drastic changes for the final end of the season without asking why the team took time concentrating on tyre understanding when they could of been understanding and upgrading like some others.


Ross Brawn I just don't expect this from him, there are still things not quite right with their design and approach/interpretation. I wish we could get more answers rather then speculattion and pondering. If MS's car was more reliable for the 1st part of the year -that bascially is what this seasons highlight has been, too many points were lost for driver and team, what advantages they had, others have catched up.



#1859 Pizdek

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:41

No. There's plenty of proof he's up for it. You leave first and mail the team by the way that BOTH drivers deserve a better car.


Why should I be one to leave?

You are one of those how wrote all the time in MS thread and we it come to blatter you come here!!! I dont write i Schumacher thread so dont come in here, you got it now?!


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#1860 MaxisOne

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:41

Well .. P5 i cant complain.

Shumi ... just bad luck in my opinion.

On to the next one.

#1861 Pizdek

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:43

Posted Image
glad one car finished 5th. MS car had some problem there, even he said in interview that there was 'no deceleration' when he braked, so to try to avoid contact he locked.


All this goes fot you to. Dont come here if you have nothing smart to say.

Dont feed the troll?! Jesus Christ, you are pathetic spoilt fanboy...


#1862 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:43

:up:

So it was a crash then.

Afawk caused by a mechanical failure.

#1863 JensonWDC

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:00

Lap 4: "try to cool the car"

Mercedes Benz - the best or nothing :up:

Edited by JensonWDC, 23 September 2012 - 15:02.


#1864 banesi

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:03

All this goes fot you to. Dont come here if you have nothing smart to say.

Dont feed the troll?! Jesus Christ, you are pathetic spoilt fanboy...


Can a moderator team ban this user please, thank you.


#1865 MSCDesign

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:09

Afawk caused by a mechanical failure.


The point is, that it is really sad we will need to predict what kind of DNF it will be. Because DNFs became a trend for Michael...Mor non-finishes than finishes..Sad really.

#1866 Timstr11

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:11

Afawk caused by a mechanical failure.

I would not put this down to mechanical failure.
It is very likely that he simply did not warm up his brakes properly before the re-start. So driver error.

This thread has become too much of a Schumacher fan discussion thread unfortunately.
It is first and foremost to discuss the Mercedes team (although sadly for some that equals Mercedes bashing).

Edited by Timstr11, 23 September 2012 - 15:12.


#1867 1Devil1

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:24

Why should I be one to leave?

You are one of those how wrote all the time in MS thread and we it come to blatter you come here!!! I dont write i Schumacher thread so dont come in here, you got it now?!


Sorry, you can have your own opinion but based on what do you call for retirement? Michael was a bit slower than Rosberg today. We had a different picture since Monaco. Michael out qualified and outraced Nico since than. About the crash we don't know anything because Schumacher himself said it was strange he braked at the right moment. So for me Nico was the first time better than Michael for a long time. kudos for that. :up: but if you judge Schumacher that hard you should have called to replace Nico quit often this season.You argumentation is curios and I am not suprised that other users react like that on your comments. sorry mate!

Like some poster said all the threads about nico and schumacher were dead we had to wait for a bad weekend for a new storm. here it is

#1868 sanW10

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:37

Singapore GP: Michael Schumacher suspects mechanical failure caused crash with Vergne

#1869 MSCDesign

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:39

Nico Rosberg
Everything worked out well for me this evening for the first time in what feels like a long time! Finishing in fifth place having started in 10th is a pretty decent result and I’m happy to have picked up some good points for myself and the team. It’s also nice to have stayed ahead of the two Lotus cars which I didn’t expect before the race. Saving a fresh set of tyres in qualifying yesterday proved to be the right strategy as I had a good start and a strong first stint. Thanks to the team for that and for making the right calls in the race today. Now I’m looking forward to Japan and the opportunity to improve our new package further.

Michael Schumacher
It was obviously a very unfortunate ending to my race this evening when I ran into the car of Vergne who accepted my apology straight afterwards. I am not totally sure why it happened like this; I was braking but the deceleration was not as strong as it usually would be, and I could not avoid running into the car in front of me. We have to find out what has happened. Up until then, I think it would have been possible to get some points this evening.

Ross Brawn
That was a tough race and I am pleased that the team did a pretty good job this evening. Nico had a great race and our strategy worked well for him to gain five places on his starting position. There was evidently some damage to his car following contact on the first lap as the downforce levels looked lower than expected so it was an even better drive from him in the circumstances. Michael’s race was also going well until the incident which caused his retirement. It was an unusual set of circumstances so we will have a careful look at the data and work out what could have happened. Thank you to the team for all of their hard work in very challenging conditions over this weekend. With the updates that we brought to this race, the car has improved, however we are not quite where we want to be yet.

Norbert Haug
That was an exceptionally challenging race this evening. With regard to Nico, he and our team made the best of it. P5 is a respectable result, especially in view of the fact that Nico started five places further back on the grid. He crossed the finishing line ahead of a Red Bull, a Ferrari and both Lotus cars, all teams which are ahead of us in the championship. This was made possible by having a sound strategy and by the first of the two safety car deployments when the team took the correct decision. Michael had the opportunity to claim the position behind Nico, but his accident put paid to that. The team is investigating to see whether there was a problem with his car.



#1870 Sakae

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:48

Norbert, team is investigating whether there was a problem with the car? How about telemetry and more definite statement such as "we are investigating nature of this failure"? Sounds like Merc guys have problem explaining to the racing public what went down with car No. 7. (I do not believe that brakes weren't warmed up properly. Michael does those things on feel).



Edit: According to FiA's doc., Michael has admitted to a personal error.

Edited by Sakae, 23 September 2012 - 17:14.


#1871 F. Scaramanga

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:15

No lap in Q3, starting the race with ss like cars from P1-P8 and then change the tyres nearly same round. I don´t get it. :well:

#1872 Timstr11

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 17:07

Clearly the team could not prove mechanical failure so you have to conclude it was a driver error based on the evidence.

#1873 Kompressor

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 17:14

A 5th place finish for Rosberg was more than I expected. It could have been much worse. Hopefully they can improve the set up for Suzuka. The tire wear didn't seem to be an issue.

#1874 Lamag

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 17:46

According to Rosberg, the team saw an aero problem in his last stint with cost him about 7 or 8 tens per lap.


#1875 spacekid

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 17:55

I'm not sure the car was that much better. It still looked under threat from the Sauber of Perez, Williams of Maldonado and FI of Perez. Whats interesting is that both the drivers get pretty much the same performance out of the car - Michael was a shade faster in quai, Nico better in the race, but not the gaps that we often see with the Ferrari's, Red Bulls, Williams, Saubers. The Mercs seem to split those teams up, being slower than the best drivers in those teams but quicker than the worst. So arguably still the 5th or 6th car I reckon.

Still Nico was able to do a good job with it.

Strange incident with Schumi. He said after the race he suspected something strange had happened with his brakes, then tells the stewards it was his own mistake, then the team say they are looking to see if there was a problem. The team deflecting some of the blame for a driver error?

Edited by spacekid, 23 September 2012 - 17:56.


#1876 Sakae

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 18:43

We are approaching the Finish line regarding 2013. It will be nice to end six months of speculations, and move to something else for the change.

#1877 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:43

A 5th place finish for Rosberg was more than I expected. It could have been much worse. Hopefully they can improve the set up for Suzuka. The tire wear didn't seem to be an issue.

It was an issue, Schumacher's tyres in the first stint went off ridiculously early considering he was on fresh tyres. Many of the other guys in Q3 went several laps further, some almost double the stint length when you take into account their qualifying laps

#1878 black magic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 21:36

isnt that what happens when your car eats tyres, your car is heavy and you are battling for palcces in the opening laps.

despite supposedly concentrating on the issue for most of the season the team remains without a clue as to how to fix their tyre wear issues

lets remember that up to this race the only solution was to remove downforce from the front to slow the car to hide the rear tyre wear.

this race they add rear downforce and hey wouldnt you know it the issue is as bad as ever.

and then despite knowing that you are struggling, rather than go for something different we foloow the strategy of the guys in front.

this implies mercedes had given up any shot and gaining places - they were more concerned with defending places from those behind. so even the team knows it really is only at best one of the mid field.

credit to nico for staying awake on a crap circuit and keeping his nose out of trouble.

no point watching japan with schumacher penalty.



#1879 Paco

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 21:54

What a mess..

Bad car.
Horrible pitwall.

No sign of any improvement what so ever in 2+ years. I don't see any reason to think next year will be any better for the W04..

Nico and Schumi are just passengers on a bad set circumstances.

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#1880 Sakae

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 05:23

Clearly the team could not prove mechanical failure so you have to conclude it was a driver error based on the evidence.

Evidence is missing, that's the problem. We see effect, but no other cause than it is Schumacher, who is accepting responsibility (according FiA's report) for the incident. It could be combination of several factors, which in city racing has done him in. The team needs time to understand technical report on the incident, and that doesn't happen in a few minutes. The car was not sitting well with him, that was obvious whole weekend. Based on Monaco set up, I thought results could have been better. Optics are bad, there will be tensions at the home-base, but as always, one has to overcome. To blame constantly Schumacher's age is not going to achieve anything, and I am confident when that day comes when Michael will realise that his physical abilities are not adequate to get out from the car all what could be, he will step aside on his own. Upgrades need to be explored, and probably some adjustments made, but what concerns me more is whether the team has come in terms with tires, and based on results, I am not convinced they have.

#1881 baddog

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:36

Im thinking Nico might not be too bright. He says the car benefited this race from the upgrades.. well, it did not relative to its opposition. It may have had somewhat improved tyre-wear at some phases, but the speed was as lamentable as it has ever been and earning 9th and 10th (all that the car's performance deserved) is rubbish. If he cannot see that 5th is a lucky result and no reflection of pace then I wonder I really do. On pace they were slower than the Mclaren, Red bull, Ferrari, Williams, Sauber and about equal to the Force India. Nice move forward.

#1882 1Devil1

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:57

Im thinking Nico might not be too bright. He says the car benefited this race from the upgrades.. well, it did not relative to its opposition. It may have had somewhat improved tyre-wear at some phases, but the speed was as lamentable as it has ever been and earning 9th and 10th (all that the car's performance deserved) is rubbish. If he cannot see that 5th is a lucky result and no reflection of pace then I wonder I really do. On pace they were slower than the Mclaren, Red bull, Ferrari, Williams, Sauber and about equal to the Force India. Nice move forward.


I did not wonder. Rosberg is know for being over optimistic. If he says he is looking forward to the next race (with a possible podium finish) I am sure Mercedes will fight for points. Schumacher more often has a feeling if Mercedes will be competitive or not. He takes a much more realistic approach.

#1883 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:26

I think with Mercs dismal direction since having a huge qualifying advantage in Malaysia and China to be lagging where they are now must spell the end for Ross Brawn.

Add the fact that he clearly has no control over his team as shown by the disgraceful team radio, then he must be sacked very soon. Merc must do this or it will just keep going down the toilet.

Ross Brawn must go.

Ross Brawn is clearly not up to the job. Way out of his depth without Byrne or Todt.

#1884 Seanspeed

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:29

I think with Mercs dismal direction since having a huge qualifying advantage in Malaysia and China to be lagging where they are now must spell the end for Ross Brawn.

Add the fact that he clearly has no control over his team as shown by the disgraceful team radio, then he must be sacked very soon. Merc must do this or it will just keep going down the toilet.

Ross Brawn must go.

Ross Brawn is clearly not up to the job. Way out of his depth without Byrne or Todt.

Kneejerk reaction. Its rarely every just one person's fault when we're talking about a team of hundreds of people. And even if it was, we dont have enough information to be pointing a finger at anybody in particular.

#1885 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:43

Why Mercedes calls DRS "RFA" ?? :p and what it stands for? Rear Flap Actuator? :drunk:

Edited by TheWilliamzer, 24 September 2012 - 13:44.


#1886 Sakae

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 19:19

Friend of F1 (and fan of Michael): Zetsche’s contract to be extended by Daimler until 2016, report says (in Feb 2013?)

http://www.inautonew...016-report-says


#1887 cokeb

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 21:52

Why Mercedes calls DRS "RFA" ?? :p and what it stands for? Rear Flap Actuator? :drunk:

Rear Flap Adjustment is my guess.

#1888 Disgrace

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 21:56

Why Mercedes calls DRS "RFA" ?? :p and what it stands for? Rear Flap Actuator? :drunk:


It's Mercedes so perhaps it's Rear-wing Failure Assured?

#1889 baddog

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 22:13

'Really Fecking Annoying'

#1890 Sakae

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:23

Following link is an old article. Reason why it is here is for benefit to those, who, several months ago thought (in good faith), that Ross should take over negotiations on behalf of the automaker (being an old fox and all). Article actually lays the claim, that exactly opposite is true. There was (is?) high degree of animocity between those two. Ecclestone allegedly said that "he (Ross) never liked me".

http://www.inautonew...ut-of-f1-report

On more current note, isn't there suppose to be a Meeting of The Board of Directors this very morning to vote on its presence in F1?

Edited by Sakae, 25 September 2012 - 06:24.


#1891 MatsNorway

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:10

If you look at the video Kimi is very close to schumacher. But had no issues.

Very strange accident. Schumi doesn`t lock the rears ever either.

#1892 Szoelloe

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 15:39

I think with Mercs dismal direction since having a huge qualifying advantage in Malaysia and China to be lagging where they are now must spell the end for Ross Brawn.

Add the fact that he clearly has no control over his team as shown by the disgraceful team radio, then he must be sacked very soon. Merc must do this or it will just keep going down the toilet.

Ross Brawn must go.

Ross Brawn is clearly not up to the job. Way out of his depth without Byrne or Todt.


:lol: He is the TP. Kick Bob Bell in the axx, as son as possible. He is the TD, and by now, he should have had an impact on the development. But No, since Bob Bell is TD, all he does is is uses oxygen.


#1893 Szoelloe

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 15:41

On more current note, isn't there suppose to be a Meeting of The Board of Directors this very morning to vote on its presence in F1?


uhhhmmmm, no.


#1894 Sakae

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:22

uhhhmmmm, no.

It was scheduled for Tuesday. (I am begging to loose track on source of this info, but I am quite certain of the day) / maybe next week...?

Edited by Sakae, 25 September 2012 - 17:30.


#1895 Sakae

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:32

http://www.inautonew...ontract-expires

Der Spiegel magazine pointed out that, with Schumacher’s contract expiring, the Mercedes board is scheduled to meet on Tuesday.
“The timing is certainly not beneficial,” admitted Swiss commentator Marc Surer.


Edited by Sakae, 25 September 2012 - 17:34.


#1896 Sakae

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:18

The Telegraph | 26.9.2012

http://www.telegraph...Ecclestone.html


F1 flotation delayed until markets improve, says Bernie Ecclestone

Mr Ecclestone said: “Mercedes will be staying. They haven’t signed the commercial agreement because they haven’t had sight of it yet.”


His sounds as a statement of facts, rather than speculation. I would consider it as good news.

#1897 KiloWatt

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:28

The Telegraph | 26.9.2012

http://www.telegraph...Ecclestone.html


F1 flotation delayed until markets improve, says Bernie Ecclestone



His sounds as a statement of facts, rather than speculation. I would consider it as good news.


Truth be told, it sounds like BS to me. I wouldn't really expect anything less of Bernie.

#1898 Sakae

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:43

Truth be told, it sounds like BS to me. I wouldn't really expect anything less of Bernie.

My trust in this person is badly shaken after several actions and pronouncements on his part, but fact remains, that his is not a conditional statement, unless of course I read it incorrectly, which is entirely possible. I am assuming that he knows what he is talking about, rather than conducting an idle, speculative talk. (Why media would let him get away with misleading public then)?
I have been probably wrong about Mercedes’s public stand. Media might report on the event when time is up, but as with the others, signing the CA might be done quietly and without announcements. Choice of drivers will be probably a different matter, and I do expect headlines soon, but only after CA is off the table.

Edited by Sakae, 26 September 2012 - 12:44.


#1899 sharo

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:45

Mr Ecclestone said: “Mercedes will be staying. They haven’t signed the commercial agreement because they haven’t had sight of it yet.”

Is he presenting a different version to every team and teams do not know what the others have signed?

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#1900 Slowinfastout

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:06

Is he presenting a different version to every team and teams do not know what the others have signed?


Short answer is yes, IMO..

Bernie torpedoed FOTA by giving nice deals to Ferrari and Red Bull, then the other teams were left with little choice to scrape whatever they could for themselves.

Divide and conquer, works every single time.