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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#2001 Fildischum

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:48

Its safe to say mercedes drained schumi's battery and motivation. And i blame them for schumi's retirement. Even rosberg must be disappointed on how things have gone from bad to worse. Here's hoping a better race pace.

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#2002 packapoo

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:52

One may have just supposed that, with all their season's failures stacked up against the signing/retirement announced, they would be out to show the world.
Plainly, not so.
Hope you're comfortable Lewis.

#2003 RedBaron

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:20

Really disappointing Mercedes won't be able to give Schumacher a car barely capable of even grabbing points in the final races...


#2004 Guizotia

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:06

Really disappointing Mercedes won't be able to give Schumacher a car barely capable of even grabbing points in the final races...


Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?

#2005 baddog

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:13

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?

No, I think they just really suck at this.

#2006 JensonWDC

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:13

Wouldn´t rule out to see them winning 1-2 races at the beginning of 2013 but not a chance of winning a championship in the near future.
Their development program is just horrible since 09, have they ever made a noticeable jump somewhere during a season since then?

#2007 black magic

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:31

Has there ever been a car on pole at early season only to find by 3/4 mark 2 whole sec off the pace?

#2008 Anonymous

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:38

They are probably focusing on the 2014 car! :rotfl:


And then what?



:lol:

#2009 Urawa

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:10

http://www.motorspor...s-ab-korea.html

Further new parts for Korea and other races.

Nico: "A lot of things still to come"


Wooohooo :clap: :stoned:

Edited by Urawa, 06 October 2012 - 11:10.


#2010 baddog

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:14

wow if they keep this progress up they could reach 3, maybe 4 seconds off the leaders.

#2011 mkoscevic

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:26

What's especially amazing is the fact that they just recently made quite a big update on the car, it's not like they gave up from this season after Germany.

:lol:

#2012 Pits

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:28

Merc can be proud, that they live up to the expectation.
No surprises here people, the car is still crap.

#2013 Anja

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:30

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?

Like they do every year?

#2014 Pits

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:31

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?


No they haven't that's the sad part really...
Costa is overseeing the current development and Willis is working on the 2014 car.

#2015 DS27

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:32

Now it's sunk in, I am so glad that Michael has retired. What a relief to not have to go through this.

Lewis had better hope that he is 2 seconds a lap faster than other F1 drivers...

It's ridiculous to get so wound up about it in the whole scheme of things but I actually feel like I hate this team for the last few years. I have a few year old Merc parked on the drive as my daily driver and I have to replace it because a new job dictates I need a car less than 3 years old. Although it's been fine, I can't bring myself to replace it with another Merc. Maybe I'll get a Honda...

#2016 Longtimefan

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:48

wow if they keep this progress up they could reach 3, maybe 4 seconds off the leaders.


Haha :up:

#2017 schumimercamg

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:51

LOL at Mercedes SH*T

#2018 Paco

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:35

Willis :rotfl: And what pedigree has the man proven himself since leaving Williams.

The simple fact is.. the MGP003 is simply too far back right now for the MGP004 to be a top 3 car .. let alone top 2. Teams simply do not make quantum leaps forward without significant rule changes and that isn't the case for 2013. Look at the back of the pack... they should have the easiest opportunity to make a 2s leap (with it be Mass or Cater) since they were so far back rushing to get on the grid and they haven't been able to make any impact from getting from the back 2 teams. Williams has been stuck for years mid pack. FI is the only team has made significant progress up the grid and even that is limited.

Michael made a wise decision. He saw that even A SIGNIFICANT upgrade by MGP be pointless and probably slow them down a few tenths so why bother committing to them early.. Unless RedBull or McLaren offered him a drive.. better to call it day and that's what he did.

Mercedes is actually quickly become a joke. :lol: :drunk: Full works team. Tremendous engine experience. Supposed top F1 talent across the board and they can't get this dog of a car up the grid. After Toyota and BMW left, I had really hoped Mercedes would have been different.. but once again. Privateers are showing the manufacturers again how to compete in F1 (and I consider Ferrari a privateer).

Maybe we should take a poll of how long Mercedes will stay in F1 as works team and end up going back to being an engine partner only.

Edited by Paco, 06 October 2012 - 13:45.


#2019 Vic Vega

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:36

http://www.motorspor...s-ab-korea.html

Further new parts for Korea and other races.

Nico: "A lot of things still to come"


Wooohooo :clap: :stoned:

BAR Honda has been announcing upgrades and victories since '99. While some value actual victories, I can see a situation where one would value announcements.

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#2020 Anonymous

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 14:48

Maybe we should take a poll of how long Mercedes will stay in F1 as works team and end up going back to being an engine partner only.


Do it. :D

#2021 seahawk

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:11

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?


You mean they have given up for the current season to have a better season next year, they probably did - just like every year.

#2022 Misk

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:28

Has there ever been a car on pole at early season only to find by 3/4 mark 2 whole sec off the pace?

Not quite the same but the Williams FW27 comes to mind.

#2023 Tardis40

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:35

The reality of MGP.

(pre race) We have updates coming that should blah blah blah

(post race) We always knew this (blah blah) kind of circuit wouldn't suit our car.

(reality) They don't have a clue.



#2024 RealRacing

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:35

Poor Hamilton. Unless a miracle happens he´s in for a miserable 2013.

#2025 Massa_f1

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:50

Mercedes will be forever hoping to find that lucky development to give them a head start like in 2009. If they never find it they will forever be the 4th quickest team or even worse. I am not surprised Schumacher quit. The Mercedes was amazing at the start if the season. The on board camera made the car look easy to drive. It soon changed after the first fly away races finished. On boards started to look scrappy again as if the car was driving as it was back in 2010.


Anyway 6 more races for me and i will no longer worry what rubbish Mercedes will produce next.

Edited by Massa_f1, 06 October 2012 - 15:50.


#2026 Longtimefan

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:51

Mercedes will be forever hoping to find that lucky development to give them a head start like in 2009. If they never find it they will forever be the 4th quickest team or even worse. I am not surprised Schumacher quit. The Mercedes was amazing at the start if the season. The on board camera made the car look easy to drive. It soon changed after the first fly away races finished. On boards started to look scrappy again as if the car was driving as it was back in 2010.


Anyway 6 more races for me and i will no longer worry what rubbish Mercedes will produce next.


Hear hear!



#2027 schumimercamg

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:11

Mercedes will be forever hoping to find that lucky development to give them a head start like in 2009. If they never find it they will forever be the 4th quickest team or even worse. I am not surprised Schumacher quit. The Mercedes was amazing at the start if the season. The on board camera made the car look easy to drive. It soon changed after the first fly away races finished. On boards started to look scrappy again as if the car was driving as it was back in 2010.


Anyway 6 more races for me and i will no longer worry what rubbish Mercedes will produce next.



Yep, exactly my feelings!

#2028 ClubmanGT

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:34

BAR Honda has been announcing upgrades and victories since '99. While some value actual victories, I can see a situation where one would value announcements.


They have had one victory. The rest were courtesy of a massive technical advantage handed to them by Super Aguri that they almost threw away because of their inability to develop their cars.

#2029 Dan333SP

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 20:16

Hypothetical time- How bad will Mercedes look next year if Nico is consistently faster than Lewis? Yes, I think Lewis is a great driver, but I honestly think this is a possibility and it would make Schumacher's return seem even more impressive and his retirement even more of a farce.

#2030 black magic

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 23:20

the failure of michael to thank norbert and ross by name spoke volumes to me.

he feels let down by the team nad poepl he thought were his friends.

he looked really fed up getting out of the car after qualifying and seemed obvious that not many of the mechanics wanted to get too close.

points well made.

this car is so useless they couuld have 15 dsign teams and still get nowhere

and for thhe record - 2 separate design teams is one of the dumbest ideas yet. how do you learn from your successs and failures if you are not involvd and how do you develop that knowledge without the intimate knowledge that can only come form being initimately involved.

this is why the team fails to progress. by givinng up on a year they effectively also give up understadning where they went wrong - instead always searching for the miracle caroff the block - something that virtually never happens - teams prgress slowly until they reach that sweet spot. look at ferrari and mclaren over the years.

but no with schumacher gone I have no empathy or sympathy with this team or its management

in 3 years they couldnt even become one of the best pit crews - simple yet nver mastered.

perhaps ross's batteries are at red levels also.

#2031 rog

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:56

Luckily due to inconsistent Sauber drivers Mercedes still 20 points ahead of Sauber. Imagine with Perez P2 and Kobayash P4 today.


#2032 KiloWatt

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:21

Hi all,

I wasn't really involved with the racing this weekend. Can anyone tell me if they raced with or without the FW cascades?

#2033 ivand911

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:01

Hi all,

I wasn't really involved with the racing this weekend. Can anyone tell me if they raced with or without the FW cascades?

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


#2034 Kvothe

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:50

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


Actual discussion about the car :up:

#2035 korzeniow

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:54

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


That shows they till are working on the car and bringing updates. But tey don't seem to be working.

#2036 MightyMoose

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:58

Posts have been deleted, this is a thread about the car, not the drivers. Even more so when all you are doing is trolling.

#2037 BetaVersion

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:20

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


In this pic you can clearly see how much less downforce they run, at the front, than almost all other cars.

Mercedes lack of rear downforce is blatant, which leads to this slim fw

PS: Ivan, what happened to you. I disappeared from the board in the last days that had the very important and sad news?

Edited by BetaVersion, 07 October 2012 - 21:21.


#2038 SunnyENTP

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:35

Poor Hamilton. Unless a miracle happens he´s in for a miserable 2013.


He already acknowledges he does not expect to win a race next season. I think he would have fun. He performs better when he has no expectation. 09 for example

#2039 Kompressor

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:34

Apparently Red Bull have a double drs. http://www.jamesalle...aled-in-suzuka/

They have some clever minds at Red Bull. Red Bull is using their ddrs to cut drag, improve rear balance and cornering speed through high speed corners. Mercedes spent all season trying to blow the front wing. Niki Lauda needs to print up that article, roll it up and smack a few heads at Brackley.

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#2040 Timstr11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:27

Apparently Red Bull have a double drs. http://www.jamesalle...aled-in-suzuka/

They have some clever minds at Red Bull. Red Bull is using their ddrs to cut drag, improve rear balance and cornering speed through high speed corners. Mercedes spent all season trying to blow the front wing. Niki Lauda needs to print up that article, roll it up and smack a few heads at Brackley.

James Allens' article is flawed. How is it helping with rear balance? Stalling devices cut drag at the cost of downforce.

The fact that Vettel drove away from everyone at Suzuka is certainly not the result of DDRS, as the DDRS use is only allowed when you're behind a car in case you did not know.

Edited by Timstr11, 08 October 2012 - 10:28.


#2041 Baddoer

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:43

Apparently Red Bull have a double drs. http://www.jamesalle...aled-in-suzuka/

They have some clever minds at Red Bull. Red Bull is using their ddrs to cut drag, improve rear balance and cornering speed through high speed corners. Mercedes spent all season trying to blow the front wing. Niki Lauda needs to print up that article, roll it up and smack a few heads at Brackley.

No they dominated because of cheated front wing

#2042 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:59

unbelievable, red bull with 2 races of information in ddrs . made a better version already than the hopeless team that have the device since winter testing.
what a fantastic team to be on

#2043 Timstr11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:03

unbelievable, red bull with 2 races of information in ddrs . made a better version already than the hopeless team that have the device since winter testing.
what a fantastic team to be on

Explain how DDRS helped Redbull to be fast in the race. Do you even know the rules?

#2044 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:14

Explain how DDRS helped Redbull to be fast in the race. Do you even know the rules?


first of all i am talking about the caliber of the team and how they develop the various devices and innovations at their disposals compared to this joke.
secondly, you are right its a qualy advantage , therefore the bulls qualified 2 tenths ahead of button and then 8 tenths ahead on anyone else. compare that to the silver pig who had the device from the start and was believed to give them massive qualy advantage.

#2045 Timstr11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:38

first of all i am talking about the caliber of the team and how they develop the various devices and innovations at their disposals compared to this joke.
secondly, you are right its a qualy advantage , therefore the bulls qualified 2 tenths ahead of button and then 8 tenths ahead on anyone else. compare that to the silver pig who had the device from the start and was believed to give them massive qualy advantage.

So who (other than uninformed fans) says the qualy advantage of DDRS is massive. And who's to say that Merc are not geting the same advantage from it? You're not making any sense.

#2046 Kompressor

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:47

James Allens' article is flawed. How is it helping with rear balance? Stalling devices cut drag at the cost of downforce.

The fact that Vettel drove away from everyone at Suzuka is certainly not the result of DDRS, as the DDRS use is only allowed when you're behind a car in case you did not know.

The article mentions that the ddrs also blows onto the diffuser which is supposed to help rear balance.

Vettel has improved his qualifying and won the last two races since the device was installed. It seems to be working for Red Bull.

Mercedes are copying the Lotus ddrs. I hope they try the Red Bull solution.

http://www.formula1....2/878/1012.html

Edited by Kompressor, 08 October 2012 - 15:52.


#2047 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:35

So who (other than uninformed fans) says the qualy advantage of DDRS is massive. And who's to say that Merc are not geting the same advantage from it? You're not making any sense.


mercedes dont gain the same advantage from it because they qualified 13 and 15 in suzuka, and in ever other circuit they are regular 9th and 10th , so no it doesn't work with mercedes as it works with redbull because if it is owrking for merc , then their qualifying pace is with torro roro

#2048 Timstr11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:41

mercedes dont gain the same advantage from it because they qualified 13 and 15 in suzuka, and in ever other circuit they are regular 9th and 10th , so no it doesn't work with mercedes as it works with redbull because if it is owrking for merc , then their qualifying pace is with torro roro

Did you consider that they may have deficiencies in other areas, so that in absolute terms their DDRS alone is not enough to qualify at the front?

#2049 Timstr11

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:45

The article mentions that the ddrs also blows onto the diffuser which is supposed to help rear balance.

Vettel has improved his qualifying and won the last two races since the device was installed. It seems to be working for Red Bull.

Mercedes are copying the Lotus ddrs. I hope they try the Red Bull solution.

http://www.formula1....2/878/1012.html

James Allen has no evidence (neither does anyone else) of which part is being stalled. Redbull has gained qualy pace, likely due to DDRS. But they have also gained race pace, which has got nothing to do with DDRS.

#2050 BoxToOvertake

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 17:37

Did you consider that they may have deficiencies in other areas, so that in absolute terms their DDRS alone is not enough to qualify at the front?

which team make better use of the device in hand and which was more efficient in making it work properly ?