Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 6 votes

Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3093 replies to this topic

#2001 weston

weston
  • Member

  • 371 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:18

They are probably focusing on the 2014 car! :rotfl:


They can build a car but they can't develop it.
I hope Hamilton knows what to do with a hammer, a screwdriver and a vacuum cleaner after Jerez.

Edited by weston, 06 October 2012 - 06:23.


Advertisement

#2002 Macxtor

Macxtor
  • Member

  • 39 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:34

It was a good decision to quit!

OMG! Both Mercedes cars out at Suzuka, MSC was atleast faster and ahead of ROS. The w03 cars must have some serious problems wih downforce. Both drivers ran the car over the limit and didn´t get to Q3. They got totally knocked out in Q2!! MSC looked very angry after the quali..... I feel with him.

Compare that with Vettel who drives in the "comfort zone". That car is SOOOO much faster than the crappy Mercedes w03.

MSC only chance to show his qualities are unfortunately only in ROC where they have similar cars.

//Mac

Edited by Macxtor, 06 October 2012 - 06:43.


#2003 Fildischum

Fildischum
  • Member

  • 72 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:48

Its safe to say mercedes drained schumi's battery and motivation. And i blame them for schumi's retirement. Even rosberg must be disappointed on how things have gone from bad to worse. Here's hoping a better race pace.

#2004 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:52

One may have just supposed that, with all their season's failures stacked up against the signing/retirement announced, they would be out to show the world.
Plainly, not so.
Hope you're comfortable Lewis.

#2005 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 2,839 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:20

Really disappointing Mercedes won't be able to give Schumacher a car barely capable of even grabbing points in the final races...


#2006 Guizotia

Guizotia
  • Member

  • 1,387 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:06

Really disappointing Mercedes won't be able to give Schumacher a car barely capable of even grabbing points in the final races...


Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?

#2007 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 23,623 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:13

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?

No, I think they just really suck at this.

#2008 JensonWDC

JensonWDC
  • Member

  • 478 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:13

Wouldn´t rule out to see them winning 1-2 races at the beginning of 2013 but not a chance of winning a championship in the near future.
Their development program is just horrible since 09, have they ever made a noticeable jump somewhere during a season since then?

#2009 black magic

black magic
  • Member

  • 3,880 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:31

Has there ever been a car on pole at early season only to find by 3/4 mark 2 whole sec off the pace?

#2010 Anonymous

Anonymous
  • Member

  • 2,948 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:38

They are probably focusing on the 2014 car! :rotfl:


And then what?



:lol:

#2011 Urawa

Urawa
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:10

http://www.motorspor...s-ab-korea.html

Further new parts for Korea and other races.

Nico: "A lot of things still to come"


Wooohooo :clap: :stoned:

Edited by Urawa, 06 October 2012 - 11:10.


#2012 baddog

baddog
  • Member

  • 23,623 posts
  • Joined: June 99

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:14

wow if they keep this progress up they could reach 3, maybe 4 seconds off the leaders.

#2013 mkoscevic

mkoscevic
  • Member

  • 655 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:26

What's especially amazing is the fact that they just recently made quite a big update on the car, it's not like they gave up from this season after Germany.

:lol:

#2014 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:28

Merc can be proud, that they live up to the expectation.
No surprises here people, the car is still crap.

#2015 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 557 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:30

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?

Like they do every year?

#2016 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:31

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?


No they haven't that's the sad part really...
Costa is overseeing the current development and Willis is working on the 2014 car.

#2017 DS27

DS27
  • Member

  • 1,141 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:32

Now it's sunk in, I am so glad that Michael has retired. What a relief to not have to go through this.

Lewis had better hope that he is 2 seconds a lap faster than other F1 drivers...

It's ridiculous to get so wound up about it in the whole scheme of things but I actually feel like I hate this team for the last few years. I have a few year old Merc parked on the drive as my daily driver and I have to replace it because a new job dictates I need a car less than 3 years old. Although it's been fine, I can't bring myself to replace it with another Merc. Maybe I'll get a Honda...

#2018 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 3,170 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:48

wow if they keep this progress up they could reach 3, maybe 4 seconds off the leaders.


Haha :up:

#2019 schumimercamg

schumimercamg
  • Member

  • 315 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:51

LOL at Mercedes SH*T

Advertisement

#2020 Paco

Paco
  • Member

  • 1,217 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:35

Willis :rotfl: And what pedigree has the man proven himself since leaving Williams.

The simple fact is.. the MGP003 is simply too far back right now for the MGP004 to be a top 3 car .. let alone top 2. Teams simply do not make quantum leaps forward without significant rule changes and that isn't the case for 2013. Look at the back of the pack... they should have the easiest opportunity to make a 2s leap (with it be Mass or Cater) since they were so far back rushing to get on the grid and they haven't been able to make any impact from getting from the back 2 teams. Williams has been stuck for years mid pack. FI is the only team has made significant progress up the grid and even that is limited.

Michael made a wise decision. He saw that even A SIGNIFICANT upgrade by MGP be pointless and probably slow them down a few tenths so why bother committing to them early.. Unless RedBull or McLaren offered him a drive.. better to call it day and that's what he did.

Mercedes is actually quickly become a joke. :lol: :drunk: Full works team. Tremendous engine experience. Supposed top F1 talent across the board and they can't get this dog of a car up the grid. After Toyota and BMW left, I had really hoped Mercedes would have been different.. but once again. Privateers are showing the manufacturers again how to compete in F1 (and I consider Ferrari a privateer).

Maybe we should take a poll of how long Mercedes will stay in F1 as works team and end up going back to being an engine partner only.

Edited by Paco, 06 October 2012 - 13:45.


#2021 Vic Vega

Vic Vega
  • Member

  • 196 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:36

http://www.motorspor...s-ab-korea.html

Further new parts for Korea and other races.

Nico: "A lot of things still to come"


Wooohooo :clap: :stoned:

BAR Honda has been announcing upgrades and victories since '99. While some value actual victories, I can see a situation where one would value announcements.

#2022 Anonymous

Anonymous
  • Member

  • 2,948 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 06 October 2012 - 14:48

Maybe we should take a poll of how long Mercedes will stay in F1 as works team and end up going back to being an engine partner only.


Do it. :D

#2023 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:11

Do you think they may have switched 100% focus to 2013 and given up on this year?


You mean they have given up for the current season to have a better season next year, they probably did - just like every year.

#2024 Misk

Misk
  • Member

  • 152 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:28

Has there ever been a car on pole at early season only to find by 3/4 mark 2 whole sec off the pace?

Not quite the same but the Williams FW27 comes to mind.

#2025 Tardis40

Tardis40
  • Member

  • 737 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:35

The reality of MGP.

(pre race) We have updates coming that should blah blah blah

(post race) We always knew this (blah blah) kind of circuit wouldn't suit our car.

(reality) They don't have a clue.



#2026 RealRacing

RealRacing
  • Member

  • 1,867 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:35

Poor Hamilton. Unless a miracle happens he´s in for a miserable 2013.

#2027 Massa_f1

Massa_f1
  • Member

  • 3,386 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:50

Mercedes will be forever hoping to find that lucky development to give them a head start like in 2009. If they never find it they will forever be the 4th quickest team or even worse. I am not surprised Schumacher quit. The Mercedes was amazing at the start if the season. The on board camera made the car look easy to drive. It soon changed after the first fly away races finished. On boards started to look scrappy again as if the car was driving as it was back in 2010.


Anyway 6 more races for me and i will no longer worry what rubbish Mercedes will produce next.

Edited by Massa_f1, 06 October 2012 - 15:50.


#2028 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 3,170 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:51

Mercedes will be forever hoping to find that lucky development to give them a head start like in 2009. If they never find it they will forever be the 4th quickest team or even worse. I am not surprised Schumacher quit. The Mercedes was amazing at the start if the season. The on board camera made the car look easy to drive. It soon changed after the first fly away races finished. On boards started to look scrappy again as if the car was driving as it was back in 2010.


Anyway 6 more races for me and i will no longer worry what rubbish Mercedes will produce next.


Hear hear!



#2029 schumimercamg

schumimercamg
  • Member

  • 315 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:11

Mercedes will be forever hoping to find that lucky development to give them a head start like in 2009. If they never find it they will forever be the 4th quickest team or even worse. I am not surprised Schumacher quit. The Mercedes was amazing at the start if the season. The on board camera made the car look easy to drive. It soon changed after the first fly away races finished. On boards started to look scrappy again as if the car was driving as it was back in 2010.


Anyway 6 more races for me and i will no longer worry what rubbish Mercedes will produce next.



Yep, exactly my feelings!

#2030 ClubmanGT

ClubmanGT
  • Member

  • 1,279 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:34

BAR Honda has been announcing upgrades and victories since '99. While some value actual victories, I can see a situation where one would value announcements.


They have had one victory. The rest were courtesy of a massive technical advantage handed to them by Super Aguri that they almost threw away because of their inability to develop their cars.

#2031 Dan333SP

Dan333SP
  • Member

  • 627 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 06 October 2012 - 20:16

Hypothetical time- How bad will Mercedes look next year if Nico is consistently faster than Lewis? Yes, I think Lewis is a great driver, but I honestly think this is a possibility and it would make Schumacher's return seem even more impressive and his retirement even more of a farce.

#2032 black magic

black magic
  • Member

  • 3,880 posts
  • Joined: June 00

Posted 06 October 2012 - 23:20

the failure of michael to thank norbert and ross by name spoke volumes to me.

he feels let down by the team nad poepl he thought were his friends.

he looked really fed up getting out of the car after qualifying and seemed obvious that not many of the mechanics wanted to get too close.

points well made.

this car is so useless they couuld have 15 dsign teams and still get nowhere

and for thhe record - 2 separate design teams is one of the dumbest ideas yet. how do you learn from your successs and failures if you are not involvd and how do you develop that knowledge without the intimate knowledge that can only come form being initimately involved.

this is why the team fails to progress. by givinng up on a year they effectively also give up understadning where they went wrong - instead always searching for the miracle caroff the block - something that virtually never happens - teams prgress slowly until they reach that sweet spot. look at ferrari and mclaren over the years.

but no with schumacher gone I have no empathy or sympathy with this team or its management

in 3 years they couldnt even become one of the best pit crews - simple yet nver mastered.

perhaps ross's batteries are at red levels also.

#2033 rog

rog
  • Member

  • 908 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:56

Luckily due to inconsistent Sauber drivers Mercedes still 20 points ahead of Sauber. Imagine with Perez P2 and Kobayash P4 today.


#2034 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,218 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 07 October 2012 - 16:21

Hi all,

I wasn't really involved with the racing this weekend. Can anyone tell me if they raced with or without the FW cascades?

#2035 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:01

Hi all,

I wasn't really involved with the racing this weekend. Can anyone tell me if they raced with or without the FW cascades?

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


#2036 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,852 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:50

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


Actual discussion about the car :up:

#2037 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 07 October 2012 - 18:54

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


That shows they till are working on the car and bringing updates. But tey don't seem to be working.

#2038 MightyMoose

MightyMoose
  • RC Forum Host

  • 1,124 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 07 October 2012 - 20:58

Posts have been deleted, this is a thread about the car, not the drivers. Even more so when all you are doing is trolling.

#2039 BetaVersion

BetaVersion
  • Member

  • 689 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:20

With.
http://motorsport.ne...an-race/067.jpg


In this pic you can clearly see how much less downforce they run, at the front, than almost all other cars.

Mercedes lack of rear downforce is blatant, which leads to this slim fw

PS: Ivan, what happened to you. I disappeared from the board in the last days that had the very important and sad news?

Edited by BetaVersion, 07 October 2012 - 21:21.


Advertisement

#2040 SunnyENTP

SunnyENTP
  • Member

  • 717 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 07 October 2012 - 21:35

Poor Hamilton. Unless a miracle happens he´s in for a miserable 2013.


He already acknowledges he does not expect to win a race next season. I think he would have fun. He performs better when he has no expectation. 09 for example

#2041 Kompressor

Kompressor
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 07:34

Apparently Red Bull have a double drs. http://www.jamesalle...aled-in-suzuka/

They have some clever minds at Red Bull. Red Bull is using their ddrs to cut drag, improve rear balance and cornering speed through high speed corners. Mercedes spent all season trying to blow the front wing. Niki Lauda needs to print up that article, roll it up and smack a few heads at Brackley.

#2042 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,947 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:27

Apparently Red Bull have a double drs. http://www.jamesalle...aled-in-suzuka/

They have some clever minds at Red Bull. Red Bull is using their ddrs to cut drag, improve rear balance and cornering speed through high speed corners. Mercedes spent all season trying to blow the front wing. Niki Lauda needs to print up that article, roll it up and smack a few heads at Brackley.

James Allens' article is flawed. How is it helping with rear balance? Stalling devices cut drag at the cost of downforce.

The fact that Vettel drove away from everyone at Suzuka is certainly not the result of DDRS, as the DDRS use is only allowed when you're behind a car in case you did not know.

Edited by Timstr11, 08 October 2012 - 10:28.


#2043 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 1,505 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:43

Apparently Red Bull have a double drs. http://www.jamesalle...aled-in-suzuka/

They have some clever minds at Red Bull. Red Bull is using their ddrs to cut drag, improve rear balance and cornering speed through high speed corners. Mercedes spent all season trying to blow the front wing. Niki Lauda needs to print up that article, roll it up and smack a few heads at Brackley.

No they dominated because of cheated front wing

#2044 BoxToOvertake

BoxToOvertake
  • Member

  • 53 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:59

unbelievable, red bull with 2 races of information in ddrs . made a better version already than the hopeless team that have the device since winter testing.
what a fantastic team to be on

#2045 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,947 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:03

unbelievable, red bull with 2 races of information in ddrs . made a better version already than the hopeless team that have the device since winter testing.
what a fantastic team to be on

Explain how DDRS helped Redbull to be fast in the race. Do you even know the rules?

#2046 BoxToOvertake

BoxToOvertake
  • Member

  • 53 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:14

Explain how DDRS helped Redbull to be fast in the race. Do you even know the rules?


first of all i am talking about the caliber of the team and how they develop the various devices and innovations at their disposals compared to this joke.
secondly, you are right its a qualy advantage , therefore the bulls qualified 2 tenths ahead of button and then 8 tenths ahead on anyone else. compare that to the silver pig who had the device from the start and was believed to give them massive qualy advantage.

#2047 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,947 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 08 October 2012 - 11:38

first of all i am talking about the caliber of the team and how they develop the various devices and innovations at their disposals compared to this joke.
secondly, you are right its a qualy advantage , therefore the bulls qualified 2 tenths ahead of button and then 8 tenths ahead on anyone else. compare that to the silver pig who had the device from the start and was believed to give them massive qualy advantage.

So who (other than uninformed fans) says the qualy advantage of DDRS is massive. And who's to say that Merc are not geting the same advantage from it? You're not making any sense.

#2048 Kompressor

Kompressor
  • Member

  • 546 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 08 October 2012 - 15:47

James Allens' article is flawed. How is it helping with rear balance? Stalling devices cut drag at the cost of downforce.

The fact that Vettel drove away from everyone at Suzuka is certainly not the result of DDRS, as the DDRS use is only allowed when you're behind a car in case you did not know.

The article mentions that the ddrs also blows onto the diffuser which is supposed to help rear balance.

Vettel has improved his qualifying and won the last two races since the device was installed. It seems to be working for Red Bull.

Mercedes are copying the Lotus ddrs. I hope they try the Red Bull solution.

http://www.formula1....2/878/1012.html

Edited by Kompressor, 08 October 2012 - 15:52.


#2049 BoxToOvertake

BoxToOvertake
  • Member

  • 53 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:35

So who (other than uninformed fans) says the qualy advantage of DDRS is massive. And who's to say that Merc are not geting the same advantage from it? You're not making any sense.


mercedes dont gain the same advantage from it because they qualified 13 and 15 in suzuka, and in ever other circuit they are regular 9th and 10th , so no it doesn't work with mercedes as it works with redbull because if it is owrking for merc , then their qualifying pace is with torro roro

#2050 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,947 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 08 October 2012 - 16:41

mercedes dont gain the same advantage from it because they qualified 13 and 15 in suzuka, and in ever other circuit they are regular 9th and 10th , so no it doesn't work with mercedes as it works with redbull because if it is owrking for merc , then their qualifying pace is with torro roro

Did you consider that they may have deficiencies in other areas, so that in absolute terms their DDRS alone is not enough to qualify at the front?