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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#2101 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:42

Probably the most embarrassing race by the team.

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#2102 Urawa

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:53

DonĀ“t worry, the next tracks will suit them better!
















:lol:

#2103 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:55

piece of shit

#2104 Sakae

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:03

I would be a fool should I try to predict rate of car development in 2013, however I am begging to get comfortable with the idea that Michael will not have to endure it.

Edited by Sakae, 14 October 2012 - 19:03.


#2105 DS27

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:06

I actually trade my Merc in today for another German marque- what a day to be getting rid of the 3-pointed star  ;)

#2106 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:07

Goodness me.

Without the DNFs in front they could have been 16th or lower.

Schumacher saw this and wisely decided to retire. Who can blame him?

Shocking.

#2107 ivand911

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:10

I think Nico was lucky this time , to leave the race early.
When I see what James Key did in STR for 8 months!!

Edited by ivand911, 14 October 2012 - 08:16.


#2108 Sof1

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:24

I am so glad Michael did not renew with them!

What a piece of crap!

#2109 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:30

Nothing shocking about BAR Honda fulfilling it's potential. Boy, Aldo sure did help them.


Quite. How their development has been worse this year compared to the last two is still a mystery.

#2110 rog

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 08:48

Terrible pace from Schumacher. I didn't expect such a mess on this track. At least Sauber drivers are inconsistent enough. Last race Perez, this race Kobayashi.

#2111 Masenco

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:15

Quite. How their development has been worse this year compared to the last two is still a mystery.


I'm new to the merc thread, but given that their car was pretty fast earlier in the year, is it likely theyve switched their focus onto next year? Maybe they've got a different design philosophy for next year's car and therefore can't bring as many updates for this car that will help it?

#2112 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:17

of course when you have a pretty fast platform at the beginning of the year it makes most sense to change your design philosophy and abandon it....errr...nope? :)

#2113 Masenco

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:26

of course when you have a pretty fast platform at the beginning of the year it makes most sense to change your design philosophy and abandon it....errr...nope? :)


Haha good point. But maybe they saw another direction with more potential?
I'm just hoping that its not the case that they're trying to develop the car as much as the other teams but can't get it to work :well:

#2114 Paa

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:44

I'm new to the merc thread, but given that their car was pretty fast earlier in the year, is it likely theyve switched their focus onto next year? Maybe they've got a different design philosophy for next year's car and therefore can't bring as many updates for this car that will help it?


lol, you are new indeed :D

#2115 DutchCruijff

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:45

They're a shit team, not once have they ever been able to develop a car. All the more laughable in the face of Rosberg's comments (http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103416).

#2116 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 09:46

he's clueless

#2117 Masenco

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:11

he's clueless


Just trying to be optimistic for lewis for next year :)


#2118 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 10:29

I actually trade my Merc in today for another German marque- what a day to be getting rid of the 3-pointed star ;)


I have done that a long time ago. I am Merc(i)less, fortunately.

Just trying to be optimistic for lewis for next year :)


Yeah, well he is clueless.


#2119 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 12:18

The usual dead, stinking silence from Mercedes. It would be fantastic to get a peep of what exactly is going on behind closed doors in the garage and at Brackley now. I hope their face is deep red.

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#2120 carbonfibre

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 14:22

They should pay Rosberg and especially schumacher a bonus just for driving their sh*t car this year.

Sad to see Schumacher ending his career with this team now actually.

#2121 SeanValen

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 15:12

Goodness me.

Without the DNFs in front they could have been 16th or lower.

Schumacher saw this and wisely decided to retire. Who can blame him?

Shocking.



Shocking is what I think too.

To think Schumacher was working overtime in his garrage, doing his normal routine and attention to detail. Flying over to france to talk to bird about the updates.

What a huge contrast, could mercedes be featuring outside the top ten in the last races? Or will the other tracks be better for the car.


Back in 2006, with testing, and ferrari-, MS could test, work hard for preparations in development, give feedback before the car reaches the track, it's a huge difference. Mercedes infrastruture is not there. Redbull/mclaren/ferrari clearly have a baseline to build cars well.


MS's best master plan, if he's got one, is sit out, rest, and if mercedes improves in 2013, maybe return in 2014 or 2015, depending on how rosberg is doing and the team.

Given how young Rosberg is, he can afford to drive around for points, given how precious time is for MS these days, and his legacy in the sport, better not drive around for points until there is a mercedes car consistently showing speed, if that happens within 2 years or no, it will just be better to gamble and not drive for now or ever again.

Ashame Sauber has been better at times this year, if a team like that can find consistency in their car, it would of been better of mercedes brought out the sauber team and have peter sauber run it.

#2122 rallye3

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 16:05

Mercedes-AMG WOEFUL 3

Danner was right this team is shockingly bad.

I am surprised that Schumi even wants to do the remaining races, but then again has always been very professional about these things.

#2123 exmayol

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 17:28

Terrible pace from MGP. I didn't expect such a mess on this track. At least Sauber drivers are inconsistent enough. Last race Perez, this race Kobayashi.


Corrected it there for you.

#2124 Shambolic

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 17:33

So the excuse was again tyres - Either not understanding them, or not getting them to work as wanted. Been hearing this since part way into 2009 from the Brackley team, but I thought they'd sacrificed this seasons development to get a handle on the tyres?

You can see why the reports coming out now that Merc wanted Schumacher for 2 more years, and he wasn't sure he wanted to even do 1 make sense - This team could be likened to Toyota, if it didn't have its origins in the equally poor Honda (and before that, the actually never quite as terrible, but still poor, BAR). How they managed to lure Hamilton I don't know, other than he maybe hasn't got the maturity or insightfulness to recognise a lemon when it's painted grey.

You could excuse early 2012 erratic moments, as all the teams were struggling to figure out the rubber, but at this stage this team is looking as lost as ever, and doesn't even have the raw car performance to grab some points when it has a bad tyre day. Maybe the vast wealth of design talent they have bought will come up with something for next year, but if I were a Mercedes fan (I've followed them due to my chosen driver being there, and will gladly stop watching the low teen positions on live timing next year now he's leaving) I'd not be too hopeful. Not after "this year is a developing, building, learning year" since day one.

#2125 F1Champion

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 17:43

According to the link, Aldo Costa is already working on the 2013 car, and Willis is working on the base of the 2014 car. This is a pretty good way to work but a very expensive one too.
http://www.motorspor...n_12100443.html


Never really been convinced of this strategy. You think you have 2 years to work on a car, but when it rolls out its the same as everyone else who work on a 1 year rota. Ferrari worked on a car - when it was launched would run a current car development and new car development in parallel, the development on the current car feeding into the new car, RB too. The swings in design/performance are a headache when you have alternating chief designers IMO.

#2126 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 18:27

Never really been convinced of this strategy. You think you have 2 years to work on a car, but when it rolls out its the same as everyone else who work on a 1 year rota. Ferrari worked on a car - when it was launched would run a current car development and new car development in parallel, the development on the current car feeding into the new car, RB too. The swings in design/performance are a headache when you have alternating chief designers IMO.


Well, it did not work for McLaren for the past years. Could be because they simply ran out of brainpower, there was a certain level of fluctuation. So nobody is really convinced, I assume. There could be some positive sides to such a system though. and possibly it is not even a permanent setup. It could be because of the reg and spec changes for 2014. From that aspect, it sounds fairly rational, and they have the financial backing and resources to do it. Having more time to design a car -especially from scratch, like the W05- is always beneficial, no matter what. Brawn arrived at Honda in January, evaluated the new car, and he scrapped it without a second thought and started work on next year They had 6-8 months extra time to work on the BGP-01. Merc seem to have enough brainpower to pull it off. I just wish they could show something promising for the last four races this season. I don't think they will fluke it next season like this one, because it will be the last breath for many of them, if they do, IMHO. I have the feeling that the racing engineering team will be completely changed for the first tests next year.

Edited by Szoelloe, 14 October 2012 - 18:29.


#2127 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 18:58

I wonder what made Lewis more depressed today, his 10th place and conceeding his title hopes are over (4th year in a row now) or (his future) the Mercedes team lapping so slow that they were racing the Caterhams at one point?

Anyway, after Brazil, the Mercedes team and I part ways.

#2128 Massa_f1

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:02

I wonder what made Lewis more depressed today, his 10th place and conceeding his title hopes are over (4th year in a row now) or (his future) the Mercedes team lapping so slow that they were racing the Caterhams at one point?

Anyway, after Brazil, the Mercedes team and I part ways.



Same here and i think you will find a lot of fans in this thread the same.

#2129 JensonWDC

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:05

Hope Sauber jump them in the WCC standings.
The swiss team at least know what to do with the additional money.

#2130 topical

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:06

Same here and i think you will find a lot of fans in this thread the same.


And you will be replaced by the Lewis fans, so there's no loss.

#2131 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 19:21

And you will be replaced by the Lewis fans, so there's no loss.


Come next year. this thread will be called the "Mercedes OMG 2012 W04" and instead of Michael's name, it will be Lewis'. The content and sentiment will remain the same however; an innate inability to produce a good car, poor tyre management, poor strategy and lack of ability in the development race.

Still, 4 more races and me and this thread part ways.

PS: Forgot to add; another difference will be that Lewis' already receding hairline will probably will way to the full 'Mr Burns' look which won't be good for his superstardom aspirations.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 14 October 2012 - 19:26.


#2132 Muz Bee

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 21:19

Same here and i think you will find a lot of fans in this thread the same.

But you guys aren't Mercedes fans - just Schumacher fans in drag. :smoking:
I don't think Mercedes have the modern racing pedigree to have a significant group of fans of their own.

After 3 years of seriously failing to kick on from reasonable starts I'm over watching out for their fortunes among the Williams and Torro Rossos. Absolutely limp effort and they should admit they have shut the door on this embarassing year.

#2133 Paa

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:05

We have Schumacher who still could mix up with the big guys with the right equipment, which is impressive enough by itself.
And we have the Merc which manage to show us a new low every ***** weekend. In a way this is impressive as well.

Sadly the former is leaving the sport and the latter just decided to stay for some strange reason.
It should be tottally the other way around.

#2134 BigCHrome

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:11

I believe this team is currently not as well funded as the top teams. Hopefully Merc makes a commitment towards winning next year and gives them the required financial support.

#2135 Disgrace

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:19

That doesn't vindicate them from having one less podium than Sauber.

#2136 George Costanza

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 23:31

We have Schumacher who still could mix up with the big guys with the right equipment, which is impressive enough by itself.
And we have the Merc which manage to show us a new low every ***** weekend. In a way this is impressive as well.

Sadly the former is leaving the sport and the latter just decided to stay for some strange reason.
It should be tottally the other way around.


I generally agree.

Edited by George Costanza, 14 October 2012 - 23:31.


#2137 Massa_f1

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:55

Nico Rosberg believes Mercedes is closing the gap on rival McLaren, despite the team's failure to score a point in the Korean Grand Prix.

I have not laughed so much in ages :rotfl:

Maybe that is what is wrong at Mercedes. They actually believe to themselves they are gaining on other rivals.



#2138 David Lightman

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:34

They are closing the gap because McLaren are going backwards :D

#2139 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:41

I believe this team is currently not as well funded as the top teams. Hopefully Merc makes a commitment towards winning next year and gives them the required financial support.


I cannot fathom where you got that impression. I hardly think they have less to spend than anybody on the grid. That in itself makes the last 2 seasons - especially the current one - a farce. Saying that, they have a first-class facility, which they have further invested in very heavily the last years. They have a monster engineering team, and top drivers. They are one of the few still flourishing car makers in the industry, and if you take a look at what they are paying their drivers only indicates the contrary of what you imply. The potential is there. Somehow it does not materialize though, and atm, that makes them look mighty Toyota/Honda-like.


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#2140 Longtimefan

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:44

We have Schumacher who still could mix up with the big guys with the right equipment, which is impressive enough by itself.
And we have the Merc which manage to show us a new low every ***** weekend. In a way this is impressive as well.

Sadly the former is leaving the sport and the latter just decided to stay for some strange reason.
It should be tottally the other way around.


agreed 100%

Well said!


#2141 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:45

Why has Ross Brawn been allowed to continue at the helm of this laughing stock.

He is paid ludicrous ammounts of money and he is killing the team with his mismanagement.

When will Merc realise this. He is beyond a joke.

#2142 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:48

Ross has actually won something with other teams and with this team. Somehow I think i't the german part that is beyond of a joke

#2143 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:50

Nico Rosberg believes Mercedes is closing the gap on rival McLaren, despite the team's failure to score a point in the Korean Grand Prix.

he is right, mclaren barely made 1 more point than them in the last race... :rotfl:

#2144 eronrules

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:50

watching the last 2 races, i have the distinct feeling that Mercedes has abandoned W03, yes they are bringing so-called updates, but it's more like a on-track wind tunnel experiment, i'll not be surprised to see a totally new car like F2012, with maybe pull-rod Front suspension(don't forget the design input by aldo costa). the body language of Nico on grid walk suggested that he doesn't think much of the car and probably no real update coming to it for the rest of the season. also i'm interested to see them adopt Lotus style passive f-duct ... might even give lotus some idea regarding its performance :p



#2145 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:04

Ross has actually won something with other teams and with this team. Somehow I think i't the german part that is beyond of a joke


Don't know about that, but the on-track engineering team seems to be the weakest link for me. I hope there will be a total restructuring in winter. I would pay special attention to the race engineers and I seriously hope the pit crew gets drilled until they bleed from their nose and ears. Brawn has set into motion many things, if next season those things do not translate to decent results, than he will be held to blame. He is the TP. They will have to make a breakthrough. by now, it is a necessity. Time and patience ran out.


#2146 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:09

Nico Rosberg believes Mercedes is closing the gap on rival McLaren, despite the team's failure to score a point in the Korean Grand Prix.

I have not laughed so much in ages :rotfl:

Maybe that is what is wrong at Mercedes. They actually believe to themselves they are gaining on other rivals.


Seeing the trend of the last 3-4 races, after India, NR will be positive again. They will have gained on Marussia. Seriously, I wouldn't let him anywhere near a journo or a microphone. Its always MS who calls a pile of shxt a pile shxt.


#2147 Timstr11

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:11

Ross has actually won something with other teams and with this team. Somehow I think i't the german part that is beyond of a joke

I agree with this.
When Mercedes bought into the financially ailing Brawn GP team, they misjudged the situation and continued to run the team on a shoestring budget.
They realized too late that the team was in complete shambles after the Honda withdrawal. They went from 800 to 400 employees (including engineers) within the space of a couple of months. The 2009 championship was won based on a full-on Honda assault led by Brawn starting when he arrived there.
The low-level funding went on until last year when they realized they had to step up.

It's too early to see the result of this in my opinion. Although I expect a better car for 2013, it will not be enough to compete with those who are already on a good development path. Unless they are saved by the new spec 2013 Pirelli tyres. The 2013 tyres will have a wider operating window due to a new construction, new profile and new compounds.

Edited by Timstr11, 15 October 2012 - 11:12.


#2148 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:26

I agree with this.
When Mercedes bought into the financially ailing Brawn GP team, they misjudged the situation and continued to run the team on a shoestring budget.
They realized too late that the team was in complete shambles after the Honda withdrawal. They went from 800 to 400 employees (including engineers) within the space of a couple of months. The 2009 championship was won based on a full-on Honda assault led by Brawn starting when he arrived there.
The low-level funding went on until last year when they realized they had to step up.

It's too early to see the result of this in my opinion. Although I expect a better car for 2013, it will not be enough to compete with those who are already on a good development path. Unless they are saved by the new spec 2013 Pirelli tyres. The 2013 tyres will have a wider operating window due to a new construction, new profile and new compounds.


I know I am nearly alone with this, but it was the tyres that had broken their back this season. The car itself was/is very solid, and would be bloody fast if not for the 'delta-time' style of racing. They have tyre tested with the old config, to get extra development time. And in the end, that seems to have crippled their whole season. So the Pirelli-factor will be very-very decisive, IMHO, because if the new construction and compounds ( btw, is that a fact? I only remember reading about new compounds, and was thinking that will not be enough?) give them back what they lost they could be reasonably ok in 2013.




#2149 Massa_f1

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:28

he is right, mclaren barely made 1 more point than them in the last race... :rotfl:


ha ha true, but being realistic Mercedes are nowhere. It is about time they admitted to it and moved on. Saying they are making gains every week when they clearly aren't is worrying. I mean do they actually believe the rubbish they speak

#2150 eronrules

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:35

ha ha true, but being realistic Mercedes are nowhere. It is about time they admitted to it and moved on. Saying they are making gains every week when they clearly aren't is worrying. I mean do they actually believe the rubbish they speak



we said the same about 2007-08 honda's ... and then BOOM ... BGP01 ... out of the blue :smoking:

but, realistically, prepare for another record breaking year for RBR and SV, the first 4-time back to back WDC :|

provided that the world doesn't end on 21 dec 2012 :lol: