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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#2301 exmayol

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:35

Could it be considered that they could just be working on the W04 now?


So are other teams.

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#2302 MortenF1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:37

...they said they were going to push till the end though.

#2303 Pits

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:37

Could it be considered that they could just be working on the W04 now?


Yeah, that's what they say.

4 weeks ago Brawn said the W03 is a good base for the W04
2 weeks ago Merc said they had to redesign the car instead of continue with the W03 development.

If any, they made a late desission on this and will have to hurry to be ready for next year.

Edited by Pits, 28 October 2012 - 19:37.


#2304 Fildischum

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:40

Could it be considered that they could just be working on the W04 now?


They've been using that line every year.

#2305 Sakae

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:44

Not exactly no, but the team is mainly English isn't it?
And why does it matter in this case?

I mean, do you think that there is an discrepancy between the German's and the English within the team?

Unfortunately I think I do. Thought has occured to me after realizing that we all reffer to the team as "Merc", but in reality, is it really Merc, or more of Merc imposition of home culture upon what is basically an international team on British soil? I have seen this elsewhere, and I also know what kind of comments people made around watercoolers. It didn't all work well, to sum it up.

#2306 Pits

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:52

Unfortunately I think I do. Thought has occured to me after realizing that we all reffer to the team as "Merc", but in reality, is it really Merc, or more of Merc imposition of home culture upon what is basically an international team on British soil? I have seen this elsewhere, and I also know what kind of comments people made around watercoolers. It didn't all work well, to sum it up.


Well, to support your theory I noticed something to. Remember the podium in Valencia, Michael saw his team just after getting out of the car. Normally a happy moment, but it just didn't seem real to me. The celebration around it was a little unnatural imo. Acting happy for the camera but being uncomfortable in some way, it didn't look like one team but more like a group of individuals.

#2307 ivand911

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 19:59

Michael never bond with that team. He probably never see strong desire to win from the team. Only words,words and more words. Where he would like to see actions.

Edited by ivand911, 28 October 2012 - 20:02.


#2308 Sakae

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 20:03

Michael never bond with that team.

...maybe because they have never accepted him. Why do you think Ross Brawn had to sit (as a facilitator) in low level working meetings between engineering and Schumacher? That's from the day one.

#2309 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 20:06

Michael never bond with that team. He probably never see strong desire to win from the team. Only words,words and more words. Where he would like to see actions.


That is ridiculous. The team doesn't want to win....right. The team obviously has problems to solve but stupid simplifications like that are totally untrue.

#2310 ivand911

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 20:15

That is ridiculous. The team doesn't want to win....right. The team obviously has problems to solve but stupid simplifications like that are totally untrue.

:rotfl: And you base that on what?

#2311 MortenF1

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 20:20

...maybe because they have never accepted him. Why do you think Ross Brawn had to sit (as a facilitator) in low level working meetings between engineering and Schumacher? That's from the day one.


Why? To establish a certain language between them or what?

#2312 rog

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 20:44

Last year Mercedes finished P5+P6 with a 65,4 seconds gap to Vettel. This year Mercedes finished P11 with 81,6 seconds behind Vettel. And it was an optimal race for Rosberg. So it is obvious they went backwards.

#2313 BetaVersion

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:28

A candy for the first member who correctly guess the most heard comment on Lewis's radio next year

#2314 spacekid

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 22:52

A candy for the first member who correctly guess the most heard comment on Lewis's radio next year


'The tyres are holding up great guys, we can stay out another 5 laps' ?

#2315 black magic

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 23:21

And what was the purpose of nico not running q3 given he one stopped and that was the plan before qualifying started?

Ms body language tells all. Hes totally disillusioned with team and I would assume that includes brawn

I would be happy if he quit with even a race to go. Serve merc right for this shambles

#2316 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 23:46

I really fear for what Hamilton has walked into........yikes......this thread is even darker and gloomier than the McLaren dungeon

Maybe Hamilton is waiting out '13 to get to the new regs in '14. Mercedes may have found something early in development of the V6 that struck up Lewis' interest in them. Or even knowing that McLaren may have an uphill climb in the future. They [Merc] have written off this year. Although with the inconsistant Sauber, 5th place in the WCC is probably safe.

#2317 Tardis40

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:14

Posted Image

#2318 George Costanza

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 00:49

Michael never bond with that team. He probably never see strong desire to win from the team. Only words,words and more words. Where he would like to see actions.



A complete opposite environment at Ferrari, that's for sure.



#2319 Kingshark

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 01:20

Posted Image

Edited by Kingshark, 29 October 2012 - 18:58.


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#2320 Junky

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:15

Thank God that the last race that I will cheer for them is in Brasil...

#2321 ClubmanGT

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:16

Have you guys been into the RBR thread? It's amazing to see how much there is to talk about when a car actually gets developed.

#2322 korzeniow

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 08:32

Posted Image

:rotfl: :up:

#2323 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:12

Schumacher's pace was actually very strong in the second half of the race, but poor in the first half. Rosberg's was in the middle throughout the whole race.

#2324 rog

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:16

Schumacher's pace was actually very strong in the second half of the race



No wonder, he drove and the soft compound whereas all other drivers on the hard compound.

#2325 Longtimefan

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 11:01

Posted Image


That would be funnier if it was spelt correctly ;)


#2326 Kingshark

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 18:46

The car doesn't deserve to be spelled correctly.;)

EDIT: Fixed anyway. :up:

Edited by Kingshark, 29 October 2012 - 18:58.


#2327 F1Champion

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 19:48

A candy for the first member who correctly guess the most heard comment on Lewis's radio next year


This is what I'm worried about. LH is tough on tyres but quick when he doesn't have to conserve. He won't like tyres that last less than 10 laps.

#2328 thesham01

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 19:53

This is what I'm worried about. LH is tough on tyres but quick when he doesn't have to conserve. He won't like tyres that last less than 10 laps.


Thats a myth that has been well and truly busted this year.

#2329 korzeniow

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 19:55

Thats a myth that has been well and truly busted this year.


Indeed

#2330 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 19:57

A candy for the first member who correctly guess the most heard comment on Lewis's radio next year



Lewis "tyres have gone guys"

Engineer "Lewis...it's only lap 1. We have another 2 laps before we hit the cliff"



Or


Lewis "Where are the blue flags for the Caterhams? They are not letting me past quickly enough"

Engineer "Lewis, you are racing Heikki for postion. Repeat, you are racing Heikki for position"



:lol: :lol:

#2331 Sakae

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:13

A candy for the first member who correctly guess the most heard comment on Lewis's radio next year

Lewis, this is Checko. You have stolen my car. I repeat, you are not driving for McLaren anymore. They are waiting for you at Mercedes garage, and I want my car back undamaged.
Lewis: sorry Perez, old habits never die.

#2332 1Devil1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:30

Lewis, this is Checko. You have stolen my car. I repeat, you are not driving for McLaren anymore. They are waiting for you at Mercedes garage, and I want my car back undamaged.
Lewis: sorry Perez, old habits never die.


via twitter.

Nico didn't check my Facebook status last time I was online despite being best buddies so long. I guess that's real face of the hard business formula one. Because of that I decided he will not be allowed to look into my setups sheets. Zees Germans first Adrian now Nico :smoking:

via radio.

Ross: Please, Lewis stop pushing, stop pushing. Engine is overheating. Fall back so and protect your tires so we can undercut Vergne.
Lewis: I didn't even try to push. What happened to my car? Did you give Nico the better DDDDR rear wing? Oh wait..

Wheel nut failure (again) Hamilton is out of the race. Haug is talking about improvements here and there and the new updates for the next race.

than via media

My respect towards Michael raised. I don't know how he put that car on pole around monaco. True legend

Edited by 1Devil1, 29 October 2012 - 20:32.


#2333 Longtimefan

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:31

I guess I'm opening myself to a torrent of abuse here but whatever...

Am I the only one here who would be royally pissed off if the W04 turns out to be really great, wins half a dozen races and gets lots of podiums?

*dons tin helmet and heads for the fall out shelter*


#2334 korzeniow

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:35

I guess I'm opening myself to a torrent of abuse here but whatever...

Am I the only one here who would be royally pissed off if the W04 turns out to be really great, wins half a dozen races and gets lots of podiums?

*dons tin helmet and heads for the fall out shelter*


After three years you still consider that could happen?

#2335 1Devil1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:36

I guess I'm opening myself to a torrent of abuse here but whatever...

Am I the only one here who would be royally pissed off if the W04 turns out to be really great, wins half a dozen races and gets lots of podiums?

*dons tin helmet and heads for the fall out shelter*


No my hopes are that this team stays midfield and Nico shows some extra good qualifying laps to prove he is one of the best by grabbing one or two podium finishes. Hamilton leaves after one season, beaten fair and square and Nico gets a shot at a good team. Everybody knows Michael did well the last years, and Hamilton is a overrated journeyman. Mercedes pulls the plug and game over Ross and Haug.

#2336 Longtimefan

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:47

I am not a Hamilton fan at all, never will be and he comes across to me as rather immature but even I cannot deny his obvious talent. Lewis may be a lot of things 'overrated journeyman' isn't one of them.


#2337 1Devil1

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 20:56

I am not a Hamilton fan at all, never will be and he comes across to me as rather immature but even I cannot deny his obvious talent. Lewis may be a lot of things 'overrated journeyman' isn't one of them.


I think he is a great driver (behind Vettel and Alonso). But I can't deny I don't like the hype around him. He did nothing special to be rated good as the british media and fans here in this specific forum want us to believe. There is a large opportunity he can get his act together (Consistency, no team blaming, etc.) at Mercedes and if this happened I will praise him first. But Rosberg is seen as journeyman and I don't know why he never had a car like Lewis. So I see no clear advantage for the Hamster in this team battle. I am looking forward and believe Rosberg could out qualify him quit often. His q2 in India was superb.

#2338 Kingshark

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 06:50

Lewis "tyres have gone guys"

Engineer "Lewis...it's only lap 1. We have another 2 laps before we hit the cliff"



Or


Lewis "Where are the blue flags for the Caterham's? They are not letting me past quickly enough"

Engineer "Lewis, you are racing Heikki for position. Repeat, you are racing Heikki for position"

So true. :clap: :rotfl:

#2339 Sakae

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:03

I guess I'm opening myself to a torrent of abuse here but whatever...

Am I the only one here who would be royally pissed off if the W04 turns out to be really great, wins half a dozen races and gets lots of podiums?

*dons tin helmet and heads for the fall out shelter*

There will be changes, it's inevitable; you have new technical people on board, just as on administration side. It's then up to each individual how he or she will feel about new team. In my mind I expect that car should be better than W03. On management side I don't think that they finish yet.

Edited by Sakae, 30 October 2012 - 07:48.


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#2340 Massa

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 08:21

I think he is a great driver (behind Vettel and Alonso). But I can't deny I don't like the hype around him. He did nothing special to be rated good as the british media and fans here in this specific forum want us to believe. There is a large opportunity he can get his act together (Consistency, no team blaming, etc.) at Mercedes and if this happened I will praise him first. But Rosberg is seen as journeyman and I don't know why he never had a car like Lewis. So I see no clear advantage for the Hamster in this team battle. I am looking forward and believe Rosberg could out qualify him quit often. His q2 in India was superb.



No team blaming ? If he is not WDC this year, it's only because of his team, and i say nothing wrong at his team this year after all their errors they made ( pit stop, strategy etc ). The same for 2010.

#2341 stanga

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:01

I think he is a great driver (behind Vettel and Alonso). But I can't deny I don't like the hype around him. He did nothing special to be rated good as the british media and fans here in this specific forum want us to believe. There is a large opportunity he can get his act together (Consistency, no team blaming, etc.) at Mercedes and if this happened I will praise him first. But Rosberg is seen as journeyman and I don't know why he never had a car like Lewis. So I see no clear advantage for the Hamster in this team battle. I am looking forward and believe Rosberg could out qualify him quit often. His q2 in India was superb.


He's on a par with Alonso in terms of consistency, in 2012. He's had a fantastic season, let down by team mistakes and reliability. The only mistake he's really made on track has been trusting Maldonado to drive like a top driver. Barely a mistake in my book.

The difference between 2011 and 2012 is night and day (something which his father predicted before the season began).

And you forget his performances in 2009, when the car was a dog. He just got on with the job and pulled out some remarkable performances.

I think there's a lot of wishful thinking from his detractors surfacing in this thread regarding next year...

#2342 Raelene

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:40

Stanga

Hamilton has never had a dog of a car

But I agree he has driven great this year

#2343 stanga

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 10:48

Stanga

Hamilton has never had a dog of a car

But I agree he has driven great this year


The car was hopeless in the first half of 2009 and prevented him from defending his title.

#2344 Massa

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 11:47

Yes... Silverstone 2009, Hamilton was lapped fair and square.. Kovalainen didn't finish the race but was 19th after lap one and stay 19 until his retirement..

#2345 Raelene

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:08

Hopeless compared to what he had in 2008 (for a race or two) but not a dog compared to what many drivers have/do have...

#2346 ivand911

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:00

After three years you still consider that could happen?

I think next year car will be much better. They thought that main aero guy was to blame(for 3 year problems) and he is no longer with the team.


#2347 ViMaMo

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:25

Wasnt 2009 a dog of a car for Lewis?

The guy can clearly handle a nervous car much much better than Button. Sure he hasnt been through the hoops like Button(BAR green) or Michael (Early Ferrari days) or Alonso (Minardi and Total Renault) but now he has a chance. :) . Oh what am i saying. :rotfl:

#2348 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 09:55

Lauda told bild.de: Mercedes car runs interconnected suspension to control heave dampers, but it's very complicated and track dependent - taht's the main issue of the car.

#2349 RedBaron

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:16

I wish the DDRS was banned at the start of the season... could have been a blessing in hindsight.

#2350 Timstr11

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 10:23

I wish the DDRS was banned at the start of the season... could have been a blessing in hindsight.

:confused: What's your argument for that? It's the one thing that worked well from the beginning.

As has been mentioned, Lauda has hinted the biggest problem is the complex suspension. So it's not Coanda, It's not aero, it's the passive interlinked dampers which are hard to tune.