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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#2551 BetaVersion

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:44

Why he did it? Better race pace?

Maybe they thought, after him being much quicker than MSC during FPs while Schumi was using coanda exhaust, the old config was really faster

The question that rises now is if was Nico using it in FP3 as well, though?


Still, his gap to MSC is way too big to put on the count of the exhaust alone. I HIGHLY doubt an update like that, even a quite big one like this, can give 1,4s

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#2552 MaxisOne

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:55

What's immature about that graphic? It's actually quite funny and rings true on numerous events that have happened.




The both of you need to lighten up. Especially you Timstr. You act as if Mercedes are a shining team with speed and excellence and it's just Schumacher fans being babies and whining. No points in how many races for either driver, cars with no pace, failures, screw ups, updates that don't move forward, ditching previous updates that no longer work, failed forecast after failed forecast, wrong direction on this wrong direction on that.

You haven't been here the past 3 years. Not much is going to change. The McLaren/Hamilton new comers to this topic/team can dream all day that it's a new dawn and 2013 is a new season with a new car without the errors of 2012 but take it from people who've been here every year. Nothing changes with Mercedes. 2013 will have it's own errors, it's own wrong decisions.



Damn you have me aggreeing with Korzeinow ... how the hell did you manage that ? lol :rotfl:


#2553 Paco

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:01

Brawn will release a criptic reasoning like KERS or DRS failure etc.

As for FP, track condition were warmer and maybe race setup was to far optimal for qualifying and it him out.

Or.. MGP are still waiting around like clowns and have no idea yet how to go about things. At this point, seriously.. what a joke of team. No way is Nico that slow.. once again the team ruined maximising their point scoring opportunity by stuffing Nico so far back. ARRRGGG.. what a mess.

Nice of them having to how for a 1st lap scrum to help elevate Nico into a higher position quickly.



#2554 Paco

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:02

Nice to see that OLD Guy within a couple of tenths of 2nd row .. Then again, we have to wait and see if he can finish the GP without getting involved or tangled with another driver...

Lewis was might too today. Shame it isn't Michael with Lewis next season vs. slow poke.

Edited by Paco, 17 November 2012 - 21:07.


#2555 Timstr11

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:40

Unfortunately I won't remember your nick to monitor your posts next year once sh$t starts to happen to Lewis on every GP weekend basis

I know that's what all you bitter MS fans are hoping for.

#2556 RedBaron

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:48

I know that's what all you bitter MS fans are hoping for.


The question is what's got you so bitter? I hope Mercedes do get their act together Hamilton should be running at the front, he shouldn't be let down as Schumacher has been and Rosberg too. You have to face reality though he has switched to a team that produces lemons time after time after time. You're taking it out on Schumacher fans, but really deep down inside that little heart of yours is breaking because you can skip back 20 pages in this topic and see the nightmare you're about to experience.



#2557 Timstr11

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:53

What's immature about that graphic? It's actually quite funny and rings true on numerous events that have happened.




The both of you need to lighten up. Especially you Timstr. You act as if Mercedes are a shining team with speed and excellence and it's just Schumacher fans being babies and whining. No points in how many races for either driver, cars with no pace, failures, screw ups, updates that don't move forward, ditching previous updates that no longer work, failed forecast after failed forecast, wrong direction on this wrong direction on that.

You haven't been here the past 3 years. Not much is going to change. The McLaren/Hamilton new comers to this topic/team can dream all day that it's a new dawn and 2013 is a new season with a new car without the errors of 2012 but take it from people who've been here every year. Nothing changes with Mercedes. 2013 will have it's own errors, it's own wrong decisions.

Show me posts where I'm bigging Mercedes up. They are not doing well. Everybody knows that.
I just don't have the need to repeat that every day, like many do.
This year is done, gone, written off. The focus now is on 2013. At least for me it is. And I believe for the team as well.

I haven't been here the past 3 years?
FYI: I've been following this team very closely since the BAR-Honda days.

#2558 Schumacher7

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:37

Show me posts where I'm bigging Mercedes up. They are not doing well. Everybody knows that.
I just don't have the need to repeat that every day, like many do.
This year is done, gone, written off. The focus now is on 2013. At least for me it is. And I believe for the team as well.

I haven't been here the past 3 years?
FYI: I've been following this team very closely since the BAR-Honda days.

I just want to know why you took offense at the picture, and yes I do hope things screw up for Hamilton next year but that's just because I don't like him not because he's going to Mercedes.

#2559 RedBaron

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:02

Show me posts where I'm bigging Mercedes up. They are not doing well. Everybody knows that.


I didn't say you'd been bigging up Mercedes. I was commenting that you're acting like the disgruntlement of Mercedes followers in this topic is unjustified. You're labelling their comments as the and I quote "last convulsions of rabid Schumacher fans"

I just don't have the need to repeat that every day, like many do.


You'd rather repeat nonsense comments about Schumacher fans instead, isn't that right?

And as for your earlier comment, your rather random ill-informed posts about the above are what makes it impossible for this topic to hold a civilized discussion any longer. I'm pretty sure despite all the woes (and there have been plenty) this topic was pretty good as far as Mercedes discussions went regarding updates, testing, photos, news... it's since the Hamilton announcement and the likes of you entering that it's become a bit of a pit.


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#2560 packapoo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:15

Fantastic effort and :up: to whoever was responsible for the F1 daily graphic.

As to Merc F1 - they never fail to amaze.




#2561 malibu

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 10:14

shumacher is a great driver but for his come back, he was inferior to Rosberg. i think everybody agree about this except some fanboys.

the question is : what is the true level of Rosberg ?
I believe rosberg belong to top class drivers. Who are top class drivers right now : vettel, hamilton, raikonen, alonso and...Rosberg.

Drivers who for sur do not belong to this class : massa, button, webber. They have the car to perform, they are very fast but they lack the killing instinct.

But until Rosberg don't have a competitive car, we can't be certain. The only time he had a fast car, he made the pole and won.
A part of the answer will be given next year with the rosberg/hamilton duel.

#2562 Paco

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 16:12

OMG OMG OMG.

In reading MGP and Brawn logic behind switching Nico to the old spec car. Sounds like totally a marketing bull crap decision.

Look, we've gain well over a 1s in develop in 4 months time. Look we are a good bunch of blokes out here doing the best we can.. yadda yadda.

I can not believe has STUPIDLY run this team.

Personally, I think they need to axe Brawn ASAP and get the team under professional control.

#2563 rog

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:01

Rosberg looked very competitive and comfortable in Free Practice 3 with the coanda exhaust. It is beyond me that they switched to the old spec on his car.

#2564 Longtimefan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:16

What a shitbox this car is. I don't ever remember seeing a car that drops back to fast in a race.



#2565 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:28

Petrov is faster, sweet jesus

#2566 DS27

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:28

What a shitbox this car is. I don't ever remember seeing a car that drops back to fast in a race.



I'm speechless. I had already given up on this team, but Michaels out-performance of the car yesterday, caused me, ONE FINAL TIME to hope that a decent result, maybe even a top 5 or (whisper it) a podium, was possible. How deluded am I...

Barely 10 laps in and he's 13th after arriving at the first corner 4th/5th. Never sen anything like it.

#2567 KiloWatt

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:30

Take this old car out back, and put it out of its misery. :cry:

#2568 Junky

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 19:35

When I think that Mercedes can not surprise me anymore, they certainly can.

What a f****** joke...

#2569 Paco

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:04

OMG.... they need to qualifying 15+ in order to field a car that compete race day.. WTH... what a mess and joke. Thankfully I don't like their road cars or I'd be trading my Merc for a real car..

#2570 Massa_f1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:12

The whole F1 world is laughing at Mercedes. To me there is one worse team than Mercedes and that is HRT. The rest do the best with what they have.

Edited by Massa_f1, 18 November 2012 - 20:14.


#2571 DS27

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:13

OMG.... they need to qualifying 15+ in order to field a car that compete race day.. WTH... what a mess and joke. Thankfully I don't like their road cars or I'd be trading my Merc for a real car..


So glad I traded in my Merc recently - It was beginning to depress me.... I have had a couple previously but I can't believe that I'll ever buy another. Rightly or wrongly, I just associate them with failure these days.

#2572 dav115

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:13

Good job Merc focused their development on understanding the tyres this year, right guys?

#2573 Diablobb81

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:17

Rosberg told, "We think it's worth it to target beating the dash delta time by 0.5 sec to fight for P10


Rofl

#2574 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:24

This is next year's car right?



#2575 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:27

pathetic. slow pace, eating tyres, non-existing reliability. Is there smt ok with that car? next year car cant be any worse than this year

#2576 Wander

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:29

Lol, they were hilariously pathetic today. Unbelievably poor.

Edited by Wander, 18 November 2012 - 20:29.


#2577 Urawa

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:33

So, conclusion? The car is lost with the regular exhaust over a lap but on the other hand it´s melting the rear tyres over a stint with the Coanda.
Great

Edited by Urawa, 18 November 2012 - 20:34.


#2578 Disgrace

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:35

So, conclusion? The car is lost with the regular exhaust over a lap but on the other hand it´s melting the rear tyres over a stint with the Coanda.
Great


There doesn't seem to be another explanation.

#2579 RedBaron

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:42

Anyone who can be bothered to relive the bad times want to let us know how many pointless weekends that is in a row now? And how many of those had both cars finished...

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#2580 Diablobb81

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:44

That was painful to watch.

#2581 Shiroo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:45

Anyone who can be bothered to relive the bad times want to let us know how many pointless weekends that is in a row now? And how many of those had both cars finished...

5th race in row without a point. I believe even Toro Rosso didnt have such great hot streak

#2582 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:47

One word

Pathetic.

#2583 Urawa

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 20:52

Can´t believe that car was a race winner some half a year ago and good enough for pole positions.
Sick

#2584 RedBaron

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:02

Hamilton drove brilliantly. I hope they don't wreck his 2013 as Mercedes have done to Schumacher and Rosberg's 2012.

#2585 exmayol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:10

I thought Korea was bad but this is simply dreadful.

#2586 george1981

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:11

Today they looked slowest bar the new teams. I don't understand what is going on with that team and that car. From the looks of it MS seemed to be overheating his tyres whereas the rest were underheating their tyres.

#2587 exmayol

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:11

Hamilton drove brilliantly. I hope they don't wreck his 2013 as Mercedes have done to Schumacher and Rosberg's 2012.


I actually hope they will keep wrecking it otherwise amount of hype around LH will become hard to tolerate.

#2588 Paco

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:13

I for one.. am embarassed for Mercedes and all their customers. What a pathetic display the last 3 years have been with the exception of 2-3 races.

No idea how the board of directors puts up with this crap. 1st Losing Michael announcement then 2nd a disasterous 2nd 1/2 of the year. Where is Niki Lauda.. come on body speak up. What have you done to fix horrible team performance and decision making at the track.

BOOOOOOO.


#2589 Longtimefan

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 21:15

I actually hope they will keep wrecking it otherwise amount of hype around LH will become hard to tolerate.



This ^^

#2590 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:01

This is pretty sad considering that in terms of road cars Mercedes are my favourite manufacturers and the way their F1 outfit runs is just disgraceful and embarrassing to say the least. Excuse after excuse..

#2591 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:10

So glad I traded in my Merc recently - It was beginning to depress me.... I have had a couple previously but I can't believe that I'll ever buy another. Rightly or wrongly, I just associate them with failure these days.


Tell me you aren't serious?

Trading in your car because the respective f1 team isn't doing so great is bordering on the ridiculous. They are, bar the name, almost entirely separate entities. This post is truly ludicrous and represents everything wrong with knee-jerk people on this forum. To be swayed so easily by something so trivial, you must be a marketers dream! If alonso doesn't win the championship next week are you going to sell your Ferrari? Ha!

Edited by TheSpecialOne, 18 November 2012 - 22:10.


#2592 onewingedangel

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:11

I think Mercedes gave up on this years car some time ago - even the Singapore package was probably intended for Spa.

If next years car is a flop you'd have to wonder what they could do (having committed to the concorde) short of getting Newey (highly unlikely) or running a customer McLaren chassis should customer cars come back.

#2593 Jackmancer

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:17

I hope it'll rain in Brazil so Schumi can shine once more.

#2594 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:46

Tell me you aren't serious?

Trading in your car because the respective f1 team isn't doing so great is bordering on the ridiculous. They are, bar the name, almost entirely separate entities. This post is truly ludicrous and represents everything wrong with knee-jerk people on this forum. To be swayed so easily by something so trivial, you must be a marketers dream! If alonso doesn't win the championship next week are you going to sell your Ferrari? Ha!


Mercedes are in Formula 1 for one reason you know? It is marketing.

Edited by MrMontecarlo, 18 November 2012 - 22:46.


#2595 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:53

Mercedes are in Formula 1 for one reason you know? It is marketing.


Yes, for brand awareness purposes more than anything else. Sure, competing at the front reflects more favourably on a brand, but you may also argue that under performing generates just as much interest and awareness. 'Any publicity is good publicity' - whether this is true or not in this instance, nobody knows.

Edited by TheSpecialOne, 18 November 2012 - 22:53.


#2596 Paco

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:54

Biggest marketing failure since "New Coke"...

As an engine partner, they had nothing but praise the past 10yrs.. now.. yeah.. nothing but absolutely negativity in media, twitter, and forums. Spending 100's millions to be the laughing stock of a marketing program is pretty tough to take on the chin.

BMW was doing much better and decided to call it a day when F1 dumbed itself down...
Toyota and Honda very quickly realized it's not a marketing advantage for sales to be in F1.

With the exception of Ferrari, I don't think anyone makes any money or increased sales from being involved in F1.. maybe.. Vodafone is the other for brand awareness.

It's a boys club.. and decisions are usually driven by wanting to a member and not necessarily about wise marketing decisions. I'd even go as far as to most of the time - the ROI is very much a loss and in the negative. For every dollar spent, they probably don't even break even and it's costs sponsors money to be involved.

So if Hugo Boss spends 20million, I doubt very very highly that it translates into 21million of additional revenue netting a 1million dollar profit. It's about being to say.. you're involved.. However, ever being able to get accurate numbers from any sponsor will be impossible. I've been involved in million dollar sponsors deals (not in auto racing) and can tell ya, it's an ego thing usually then based on sound financials.

Edited by Paco, 18 November 2012 - 22:58.


#2597 Massa_f1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 22:59

Yes, for brand awareness purposes more than anything else. Sure, competing at the front reflects more favourably on a brand, but you may also argue that under performing generates just as much interest and awareness. 'Any publicity is good publicity' - whether this is true or not in this instance, nobody knows.



It is bad publicity. Mercedes should be ashamed of themselves. If it was not for Rosbergs flash in the pan win. I think they may of actually left the sport this season. Even Toyota performed better in my opinion than this outfit.

They are a joke and i think they must just sleep all day long in the factory.

#2598 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:01

So if Hugo Boss spends 20million, I doubt very very highly that it translates into 21million of additional revenue netting a 1million dollar profit. It's about being to say.. you're involved.. However, ever being able to get accurate numbers from any sponsor will be impossible. I've been involved in million dollar sponsors deals (not in auto racing) and can tell ya, it's an ego thing usually then based on sound financials.
[/quote]

That's all very hypothetical. Why might a brand want to be involved? because its advantageous to push and use in a variety of markets, whether that be awareness, or sales revenue.

Not everything can be measured in short-term, financial perspectives. Appreciate your point though!

Edited by TheSpecialOne, 18 November 2012 - 23:02.


#2599 amppatel

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:05

You guys don't seem to understand that a car doesn't go from winning to shit for no reason. Something is going on that the outside world does not know. Hamilton is not an idiot and he wouldn't sign for them unless he knew exactly why they have dropped so far back this season - it must have been a pretty good reason to get him to sign.

Unlike McLaren this team is here to win Championships NOT races.

Edited by amppatel, 18 November 2012 - 23:05.


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#2600 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 23:11

You guys don't seem to understand that a car doesn't go from winning to shit for no reason. Something is going on that the outside world does not know. Hamilton is not an idiot and he wouldn't sign for them unless he knew exactly why they have dropped so far back this season - it must have been a pretty good reason to get him to sign.

Unlike McLaren this team is here to win Championships NOT races.


Quite, and maybe if he does win some races next season a few poster on here will all rush out to buy Mercedes again, that's how it works right?