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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#2951 sanW10

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 13:52

So, its the money then? he has accepted it himself. lol

Lets see what happens with Nico & Ham pairing next year.



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#2952 jrg19

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 14:11

Does anyone have a link to the UBS story?

(not the United Bible Societies story)

#2953 stanga

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:26

So many smart guys here. :p We that live in this thread until now, we didn't know that only missing part for MGP success was Lewis in W03? I would be happy for Michael to swap places with Lewis for the second part of 2012 and whip his ass on the track. Not only Lewis ass in W03 ,but Button ass in the same McLaren. Easy job for MS to do even at 43. You are good as your car is. Where would be Lewis stocks if he was driving W03 this year? Car was good for 2 races only in last 3 years, and both times Michael was ahead of Lewis. Silverstone too.


Frankly, who cares. Schumacher is yesterday's news.

#2954 Boxerevo

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 15:37

"My mom is better than yours". :well: Stop the bs please between fans.

Well,first step is to make a reliable car like someone already said,a Ferrari 2012 level of car would be very welcome.

Edited by Boxerevo, 07 December 2012 - 15:39.


#2955 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 16:24

The season is over, if we could keep the frigging direct driver topics out of this here thread, well, that would be pretty awesome. Being butthurt because of the past three season's disappointments is one thing,but maybe it is time to start looking forward now. There is going to be plenty things to talk about soon. Plus, its advent time.

#2956 BigCHrome

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:09

Accidents do happen in F1 quite often. How about this one? Canada 2008

If a racing series (in your theory) permits "mediocre" drivers to rise and win three championships, what does it say about Hamilton and/or Button who each really won just one? My expectation is, that you shall come back with a lot of explanation how that is someone else's fault.


I can blame yourself for not understanding that mediocre drivers are winning because of superior equipment, not because of skill.

#2957 Sakae

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 17:57

I can blame yourself for not understanding that mediocre drivers are winning because of superior equipment, not because of skill.

I see; that's also where my interest ends.

#2958 ivand911

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 18:24

I can blame yourself for not understanding that mediocre drivers are winning because of superior equipment, not because of skill.

Yeah, because Lewis didn't win his wins this year in superior car? It was the car , not him. On some tracks McLaren was mighty. And RB8 was not invincible this year. To call 3 time WDC mediocre, speak much about you. Vettel is not throwing away winning chances for money. He is racer , not money hungry pop star. And Vettel could have won the WDC even with McLaren.


#2959 BernieEc

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:06

Yeah, because Lewis didn't win his wins this year in superior car? It was the car , not him. On some tracks McLaren was mighty. And RB8 was not invincible this year. To call 3 time WDC mediocre, speak much about you. Vettel is not throwing away winning chances for money. He is racer , not money hungry pop star. And Vettel could have won the WDC even with McLaren.


Please cut the cr*p and stop trying to create a stormfest. I honestly thought him moving teams wld be better as the mercedes thread I assumed had more discussion about the car instead of some disgruntled element trying to deter others. Its a car thread pls lets discuss the car instead of the he said she said mumbo jumbo ur coming up with.....Jeez.


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#2960 Szoelloe

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 19:11

Please cut the cr*p and stop trying to create a stormfest. I honestly thought him moving teams wld be better as the mercedes thread I assumed had more discussion about the car instead of some disgruntled element trying to deter others. Its a car thread pls lets discuss the car instead of the he said she said mumbo jumbo ur coming up with.....Jeez.


+1


#2961 Sakae

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 15:48

I am hoping that Sam Michael is writing off Mercedes and Lotus perhaps too prematurely. (Re: in headlines).

#2962 moorsey

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 19:44

Please cut the cr*p and stop trying to create a stormfest. I honestly thought him moving teams wld be better as the mercedes thread I assumed had more discussion about the car instead of some disgruntled element trying to deter others. Its a car thread pls lets discuss the car instead of the he said she said mumbo jumbo ur coming up with.....Jeez.


Good post. :up: :up:

#2963 Sakae

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 02:40

Please cut the cr*p and stop trying to create a stormfest. I honestly thought him moving teams wld be better as the mercedes thread I assumed had more discussion about the car instead of some disgruntled element trying to deter others. Its a car thread pls lets discuss the car instead of the he said she said mumbo jumbo ur coming up with.....Jeez.


Since when and by whom it was decided that this is only "a car" thread, as opposed to Mercedes-team thread? BTW, no need for obtuse and vulgar language. Some of us do not care for that.


Tracing back couple of exchanges...

Nov 15 2010 | Mercedes GP 2011 - MGP W02 / Timstr11 @ Nov 15 2010, 16:50

This thread has barely started and is already a thread about the drivers.

Nov 15 2010 | Mercedes GP 2011 - MGP W02 / Augurk, who has launched the thread

...This thread is to discuss the Mercedes GP team and the drivers are an inseperable part of that.


_____________

2010 thread before that was merged with BGP by Sommers, and also discussed prospects of the team as a whole.



#2964 BernieEc

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:10

Since when and by whom it was decided that this is only "a car" thread, as opposed to Mercedes-team thread? BTW, no need for obtuse and vulgar language. Some of us do not care for that.


Tracing back couple of exchanges...

Nov 15 2010 | Mercedes GP 2011 - MGP W02 / Timstr11 @ Nov 15 2010, 16:50

Nov 15 2010 | Mercedes GP 2011 - MGP W02 / Augurk, who has launched the thread


_____________

2010 thread before that was merged with BGP by Sommers, and also discussed prospects of the team as a whole.


Look mate not sure what floats your boat. I know its not really my comment about it being a car thread that warranted an input from you I suspect it's most probably a retort to a post about Hamilton that I made. I know you are not a fan of his, instead of you to call a spade a spade and say what you really mean instead of trawling through posts from 3 years ago to try and buttress some non-existent argument.

fine I used the word cr*p how in the hell does that make the post vulgar in its entirety? a bit pedantic if you ask me. As far as I know, the mods seem to be fine with it .

by the way. frankly don't give a hoot what you care for.



#2965 ivand911

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 08:55

Please cut the cr*p and stop trying to create a stormfest.


fine I used the word cr*p how in the hell does that make the post vulgar in its entirety? a bit pedantic if you ask me. As far as I know, the mods seem to be fine with it .

by the way. frankly don't give a hoot what you care for.

Why you tell me what to do, when you don't care? ;) Do you think anyone care about what you think and say? It is wrong to give other posters advises what to do. I will not tell you what to do, I guess you will figure out yourself.
It was said don't discuss the poster, but what he said.
When you talk about the car you will get answer about the car, when you talk about mediocre driver ,you will get answer about that too. The answer you get will depend from the question. It is not rocket science.

Edited by ivand911, 09 December 2012 - 08:57.


#2966 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 09:42

Since when and by whom it was decided that this is only "a car" thread, as opposed to Mercedes-team thread? BTW, no need for obtuse and vulgar language. Some of us do not care for that.


Tracing back couple of exchanges...

Nov 15 2010 | Mercedes GP 2011 - MGP W02 / Timstr11 @ Nov 15 2010, 16:50

Nov 15 2010 | Mercedes GP 2011 - MGP W02 / Augurk, who has launched the thread


_____________

2010 thread before that was merged with BGP by Sommers, and also discussed prospects of the team as a whole.


McLaren, Red Bull, Vettel. Nothing to do with Merc.


#2967 Sakae

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 10:00

McLaren, Red Bull, Vettel. Nothing to do with Merc.

You are addresing this to a wrong poster. I didn't bring it up in here; issue was rasied by BigChrome. Check it out.

#2968 BernieEc

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:13

Why you tell me what to do, when you don't care?;) Do you think anyone care about what you think and say? It is wrong to give other posters advises what to do. I will not tell you what to do, I guess you will figure out yourself.
It was said don't discuss the poster, but what he said.
When you talk about the car you will get answer about the car, when you talk about mediocre driver ,you will get answer about that too. The answer you get will depend from the question. It is not rocket science.


please lets discuss the car and don't try and claim any moral high ground here. Your post was mostly about undermining Hamilton. Whilst this is your opinion (And you are entitled to it although its obviously not the one that counts) am pretty sure this is not the thread to discuss it. Neither is it the right thing to do if your intention is to have a healthy discussion. Instead it was designed to whip up a storm fest.

Please re-read your post in its entirety and let me know if you actually think that wasn't meant to create a dud argument to infuriate other posters by bringing out your negative objections to hamilton to the fore. You can keep harping on about about the "he said this and I said that" and not really revealing your true intentions which is your obvious hatred or dislike of hamilton. No one has to like LH but at least admit it and say it....don't hide behind rules and please go to the relevant thread to do that.

am done on this. Either you don't understand the point or my English is not clear enough for you....either way this is the last am saying on it.





#2969 Clatter

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:31

Since when and by whom it was decided that this is only "a car" thread, as opposed to Mercedes-team thread? BTW, no need for obtuse and vulgar language. Some of us do not care for that.


I think the clue is in the thread title.

#2970 eronrules

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:45

fanboys bitch fight ... classy :rotfl:

#2971 amppatel

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 13:36

fanboys bitch fight ... classy :rotfl:


+1



#2972 DutchCruijff

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 13:54

I think the clue is in the thread title.

Well considering we've been discussing the team more so than the actual car over the past year, I'd say the clue wasn't in the title.

#2973 Clatter

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 13:58

Well considering we've been discussing the team more so than the actual car over the past year, I'd say the clue wasn't in the title.


Just because some can't spot it doesn't mean the clue wasn't there. If that's not enough then just take a look at the OP of the original thread.

Edited by Clatter, 09 December 2012 - 13:59.


#2974 skyform

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 10:11

I'm not a Mercedes fan but I can't wait for next year because I like both drivers, Nico and Lewis. I don't mind who comes on top because they are both great, I just hope that their friendship won't go down because of rivalry. I think that Nico will push Lewis a lot more than some are expecting, I think that he might even beat him next year because Nico already feels at home with Mercedes while Lewis doesn't, he has to adapt. I also rate Rosberg higher than Button so I think it will closer between them.

Edited by skyform, 11 December 2012 - 11:18.


#2975 cooper

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 14:37

Good god, it seems the winter break comes and the boxing gloves go on! Does anyone know how much Ross Brawn actually goes into the design and development of the car VS his team principal role? He himself is a great car designer and can be very innovative, it would be great to see Merc with something that gives them an advantage (similar to BrawnGP and the double diffuser). It's hard to see where the innovation can come from with all the regulation clampdowns..

#2976 Pizdek

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 15:07

This thread is "known" for Schumacher fans, at least they wont be here next season. :cool: But be warn, if, I mean IF Mercedes builds rocket car we wont get rid of them couse they will be here blattering new 04...

Why this topic isnt closed already? Maybe we can create new one??!



#2977 jrg19

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 15:10

We need something substantial on the w04 to start a thread on it, nothing yet though.

#2978 Szoelloe

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 16:15

We need something substantial on the w04 to start a thread on it, nothing yet though.


Don't think anything will happen until January. Not so long now though.


#2979 maxx7

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 16:38

As brawn said development/design of the w04 began more than 12 months ago
http://translate.goo...r_12120502.html


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#2980 Rikhart

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 17:17

You could perfectly start a new car thread, just call it "The W04:all talk and no action". Or maybe " The crap midfield car".

#2981 Guizotia

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:18

You could perfectly start a new car thread, just call it "The W04:all talk and no action". Or maybe " The crap midfield car".


At least the expectations are low. I'm an immigrant from the McLaren thread and looking forward to a roller coaster-free spring! :wave:

#2982 eronrules

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:21

You could perfectly start a new car thread, just call it "The W04:all talk and no action". Or maybe " The crap midfield car".



i have a better title

MGP AMG W-04: the car that cried wolf

btw, if W-04 thread becomes anything like Ferrari F2012 thread at the beginning of the year, i'll be happy to apply for immigration in mercedes land too.  ;)

Edited by eronrules, 11 December 2012 - 19:23.


#2983 olliek88

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:27

i have a better title

MGP AMG W-04: the car that cried wolf

btw, if W-04 thread becomes anything like Ferrari F2012 thread at the beginning of the year, i'll be happy to apply for immigration in mercedes land too. ;)


No, no. That label has to go to any and every Caterham (Nee Team Lotus/Lotus Racing) car.

#2984 eronrules

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:30

No, no. That label has to go to any and every Caterham (Nee Team Lotus/Lotus Racing) car.


i thought they settled for caterham CT - Pinnnocio for all their cars. well we can all see why MGP chose to name all their cars with 'W'

MGP Petronas AMG W(oeful) - 01/02/03/04.....

Edited by eronrules, 11 December 2012 - 19:31.


#2985 Szoelloe

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:32

At least the expectations are low. I'm an immigrant from the McLaren thread and looking forward to a roller coaster-free spring! :wave:


uggghhhh, goddd.

we had MORE than our fair share of pain. I thought that (my) expectations were low last year. It turned out that they were too high. So here is to some positive trends at Mercedes. They have to turn the corner next season. Welcome aboard.

#2986 Szoelloe

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:34

No, no. That label has to go to any and every Caterham (Nee Team Lotus/Lotus Racing) car.


OK.

W04: Silver Arrow, or Silver Barrow?


#2987 AJFIN

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 19:36

Pirates of Brackley W04: The Curse of the Silver Arrow

#2988 akshay380

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:25

Nothing to do with 2012 Merc but Andy Cowell to take over as chief of Mercedes' Formula 1 engine arm

Edited by akshay380, 12 December 2012 - 06:48.


#2989 packapoo

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:34

No, no. That label has to go to any and every Caterham (Nee Team Lotus/Lotus Racing) car.


Hey, I like your way of thinking :up:


#2990 packapoo

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 04:38

Nothing to do with 2012 Merc but Andy Cowell to take over as chief of Mercedes' Formula 1 engine arm


Probably nothing to do with the 2013 Merc either, but Rosscoe the Great seems to think 'teams' have the 2013 tyres sussed - does that include his team I wonder?
Didn't bother to read beyond the headline, guy is simply not credible.

#2991 Szoelloe

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:38

Probably nothing to do with the 2013 Merc either, but Rosscoe the Great seems to think 'teams' have the 2013 tyres sussed - does that include his team I wonder?
Didn't bother to read beyond the headline, guy is simply not credible.


understanding the tyres and eating the tyres are not necessarily the same thing in the case of the pirellis, dumby.

Edited by Szoelloe, 12 December 2012 - 07:44.


#2992 Timstr11

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 07:54

Some insights into why the W03 did not perform (AMuS 12-Dec-2012)

#2993 F1ultimate

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:13

It's appears that Mercedes have a weapon of mass destruction planned for Lewis in 2014.

http://planetf1.com/...d-off-the-pace-

"I think it's far too early to say because I've never even driven the car," Hamilton commented about his chances next season during an interview with Sky Sports News.

"It looks like (at the final race) in Brazil Mercedes were 1.1 seconds behind so we've got a long, long, steep hill to climb. But I don't think that's impossible, I think the guys have great, great potential and that's why I'm going there.

"I don't see it as a short-term thing. Firstly I don't get in to the car until February so I won't really be able to have a big enough impact until at least six months down the line."

While the 2008 World Champion admitted that challenging for the title in 2013 might be too much to ask, he expects Mercedes to exploit the change of regulations that will be enforced in 2014.

"I think 2014 has to be the most important year, or the most competitive year, but I don't see why we can't try to clinch a few podiums," he added.

"If we can get some wins next year; if it just happens to go really, really well then we'll be smiling, but we'll see."


Edited by F1ultimate, 12 December 2012 - 09:13.


#2994 JRizzle86

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:41

You could perfectly start a new car thread, just call it "The W04:all talk and no action". Or maybe " The crap midfield car".


:)

Edited by JRizzle86, 12 December 2012 - 10:41.


#2995 RedBaron

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:53

Schumacher left Mercedes hanging on a decision about driving for another year because what he saw of development and of 2013 was not enough for him to want to say yes right away, he didn't want to drive midfield again that wasn't why he came back. He was privy to much more than Hamilton was when negotiating a contract.

There's been plenty of time since then and will be until 2013 kicks off for Mercedes to step up and make progress, but it's a little worrying.

Whether the W04 is competitive or not I just have a feeling 2013 we are going to see a whole new Hamilton. New look and new demeanour. I'm fully expecting some exciting racing from him especially if he isn't at the front.


#2996 Reinmuster

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:11

Well Hamilton already accepted that the 2013 car won't be competitive in first half of season, let's see if he still accept it if the car still not competitive come the end of season.

But shouldn't Hamilton test the 2012 car first - just to get some general feeling about the Mercedes' car.





#2997 seahawk

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:31

The FIA deciding to drop the rule changes for the bodywork in 2014 has a huge impact on Mercedes imho. Now they have to catch-up to RBR and Newey within the existing rules, while the advantage of knowing the the new engine best is not that big any more.

#2998 Clatter

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:39

Well Hamilton already accepted that the 2013 car won't be competitive in first half of season, let's see if he still accept it if the car still not competitive come the end of season.

But shouldn't Hamilton test the 2012 car first - just to get some general feeling about the Mercedes' car.


Why waste time on the 2012 car if the 2013 one is available? He won't learn anything useful other than how different they are.

#2999 eronrules

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:44

The FIA deciding to drop the rule changes for the bodywork in 2014 has a huge impact on Mercedes imho. Now they have to catch-up to RBR and Newey within the existing rules, while the advantage of knowing the the new engine best is not that big any more.


even then, a new engine means new packaging and dynamics for the car, the rules were pretty consistent from 2010-2011 season too, merc couldn't adapt blown diffuser, now judging by the last season (2012), they couldn't adapt the coanda exhaust while teams like LotusF1 and sauber got it going from their first try.


BUT ... the Achilles heel in mercedes's last 3 car has been suspension geometry and how it eats rear tires. above all, they need to sort that shit out before thinking of chasing Newey and RB9. the word is that the W04 will share almost nothing with W03, meaning it'll be a completely new design, and we all saw how easy it is to understand a new package from F2012 ... (i'm expecting a subtle start to 2013 from ferrari btw, and all the doom-mongers will likely occupy W04 thread). but time will tell, but IMO, even if the rules stays same tll 2016, it'll be hard work for Mercedes to catch up to Red bull, unless renault TCV6 is crap.

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#3000 Rinehart

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:53

I'm just not convinced that Mercedes AMG are going to join the front of the grid anytime soon. A lot seems to be based on a hope that the 2014 Merc engine is a stormer and that they ace the 2014 regs. Where's the confidence coming from that they'll do a better job than Renault or Ferrari in the engine department (my money is on Renault) or a better job than RBR, McLaren or Ferrari in the chassis department? It seems nothing but a shuffle of the deck to me that gives them a chance, but nothing tangible to suggest their likely to be better off. Just as likely they'll be worse off as far as I can tell. One could say that the tech team will have bonded and established itself by then, but again, other teams such as Ferrari with their aero/wind tunnel efforts and RBR with their tech infrastructure development aren't standing still either.

A lot of this boils down to racing DNA and I get the impression that the "exist to win" mentality is somewhat lacking in the manufacturer team, rather than racing teams.