Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 6 votes

Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
3093 replies to this topic

#3001 H2H

H2H
  • Member

  • 2,891 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:54


It seems like the Mercedes with it's finicky suspension design would certainly profit from a wider tyre working range. With the downwash exhaust integrated from day 1 the effect of the bigger fuelload should arguably be better manageable. And last but not least they should have got a lot of insight into the Fric-suspension, maybe they can iron out the problems in this area.

Advertisement

#3002 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 724 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 12 December 2012 - 16:15

I'd say Mercedes (or rather the team based in Brackley in all it's guises) has always suffered from a poor understanding of tyres. They had a good year in 2004 when they changed to Michelins which looked to be a bit of fluke, their car seemed to suit the 2004 Michelin tyre. In 2009 they designed the car around the double diffuser that gave them a lot more downforce than other teams, even then they still had tyre issues with Button often complaining he was struggling for balance.
Since then the team has really struggled to get on top of the tyres. The fancy suspension might be part of it but that's only been on the car for a year or two so I think it's something more fundamental.

#3003 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 12 December 2012 - 16:23

I'd say Mercedes (or rather the team based in Brackley in all it's guises) has always suffered from a poor understanding of tyres. They had a good year in 2004 when they changed to Michelins which looked to be a bit of fluke, their car seemed to suit the 2004 Michelin tyre. In 2009 they designed the car around the double diffuser that gave them a lot more downforce than other teams, even then they still had tyre issues with Button often complaining he was struggling for balance.
Since then the team has really struggled to get on top of the tyres. The fancy suspension might be part of it but that's only been on the car for a year or two so I think it's something more fundamental.



i don't think thats due to the car, he always has balance issues in every car he's driven. but u may be right about bAR/Honda/mercedes.

#3004 Smitla321

Smitla321
  • Member

  • 335 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:27

Hi Guys,

Bit of a random question, but what do you all think of the Merc livery these days? I personally dont like it at all.

If they are sticking with this livery for the time being I would like to see a return to more the 2010 style that had elements of black in it. Thoughts?

#3005 KiloWatt

KiloWatt
  • Member

  • 1,183 posts
  • Joined: December 08

Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:52

Hi Guys,

Bit of a random question, but what do you all think of the Merc livery these days? I personally dont like it at all.

If they are sticking with this livery for the time being I would like to see a return to more the 2010 style that had elements of black in it. Thoughts?


I quite like it as it is. And I must admit I like it more than the 2010 one. But I think there is some scope to evolve it.

#3006 george1981

george1981
  • Member

  • 724 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:33

Hi Guys,

Bit of a random question, but what do you all think of the Merc livery these days? I personally dont like it at all.

If they are sticking with this livery for the time being I would like to see a return to more the 2010 style that had elements of black in it. Thoughts?


I don't like it, I think they should have a lighter shade of silver, the green from Petronas might be necessary but looks sickly IMO.

#3007 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,822 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:44

I don't like it, I think they should have a lighter shade of silver, the green from Petronas might be necessary but looks sickly IMO.


I agree on both counts, the colour scheme at the moment is simply awful, still deliberating whether to buy team wear or not.

#3008 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,609 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:36

"Norbert Haug to step down as Head of Mercedes Benz Motorsport at the end of 2012. Interesting development I think you'll agree"

Crofty on Twitter.

#3009 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:45

I don't mind the green as it distinguishes them as no one else uses the colour, I would agree more black on the car would give it that extra edge.

#3010 jjcale

jjcale
  • Member

  • 7,274 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:46

I don't like it, I think they should have a lighter shade of silver, the green from Petronas might be necessary but looks sickly IMO.


It is the most beautiful car [livery] in the flesh ..... but it is not telegenic

Edited by jjcale, 13 December 2012 - 12:46.


#3011 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:51

Brawn says Mercedes optimistic of strong 2013.

Does anyone believe this?

Intresting that the w04 will be at the first test in Jerez :up:

#3012 Alx09

Alx09
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:02

Too bad about Haug, I wanted him to stay since Lewis/Haug seemed to like each other. Could've been nice.

#3013 Rikhart

Rikhart
  • Member

  • 581 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:07

Brawn says Mercedes optimistic of strong 2013.

Does anyone believe this?

Intresting that the w04 will be at the first test in Jerez :up:


The hyping continues, will they EVER learn? And to him this years car was "reasonable"? I think I begin to understand the last 3 years a bit better, now.

#3014 eronrules

eronrules
  • Member

  • 3,224 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:09

Too bad about Haug, I wanted him to stay since Lewis/Haug seemed to like each other. Could've been nice.


why did u put Ready Steady go with that clip :mad: (even though i like it, i prefer my F1 with engine noise)

#3015 jav

jav
  • Member

  • 197 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:24

I suspect you'll see other heads roll as well. I believe Brawns days are numbered and don't see him at the team beyond 2013.

#3016 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,416 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 13 December 2012 - 13:36

Mediocre drivers like Vettel will continue to win "championships"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drunk:

Say what you like, but if this was so easy then where are Rosberg's multiple championships in the W01-03 series ?

If it is based on the premise that Webber is an utterly hopeless hack, and as young Vettel is only significantly faster than Webber when the car is setup suitably to use Vettel's special corner entry trick (which is most of the time actually..) thus therefore they are both rubbish drivers... that is a very interesting opinion!

#3017 maxx7

maxx7
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 13 December 2012 - 14:21

Ross

"Twelve months ago we recognised we needed to strengthen the organisation, and we had Aldo Drudi and Geoff Willis joining this summer. We had further additions

Who Aldo Drudi? I know this designer helmet in MotoGP.. But in F1??

#3018 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 13 December 2012 - 14:27

Ross

Who Aldo Drudi? I know this designer helmet in MotoGP.. But in F1??


Go faster helmet paint? :lol:

#3019 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:29

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drunk:

<snipped>

If it is based on the premise that Webber is an utterly hopeless hack, and as young Vettel is only significantly faster than Webber when the car is setup suitably to use Vettel's special corner entry trick (which is most of the time actually..) thus therefore they are both rubbish drivers... that is a very interesting opinion!

can you tell me whats his driving style?

I know about Alonso's - he puts the car in corner, straightens out then catches the car. this is what the Indian TV commentators say.

Advertisement

#3020 pinkypants

pinkypants
  • Member

  • 1,414 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:43

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104826 :(

#3021 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 14 December 2012 - 13:34

in which way does Haug's departure will affect the team?
he has obviously played a major part in making the Merc engines to be the most sought after & default fastest. to make it worse, this is a very crucial time for 2014 engine development cycle.

i think Merc made another mistake by firing the wrong guy :p

#3022 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:04

Haug insists Lauda not to blame for exit.
http://www.crash.net...e_for_exit.html
i bet he was :p

#3023 Lamag

Lamag
  • Member

  • 1,002 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 14 December 2012 - 20:08

From the very first moment I saw the news about Haug departure from Mercedes I thought "The press is going to blame Lauda for his departure" I was damn right.

Sometimes the F1 press is so easy to predict.

#3024 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 14 December 2012 - 22:09

in which way does Haug's departure will affect the team?
he has obviously played a major part in making the Merc engines to be the most sought after & default fastest. to make it worse, this is a very crucial time for 2014 engine development cycle.

i think Merc made another mistake by firing the wrong guy :p

Since you are so sure that Haug was dismissed (as opposed to resigned from his own initiative), perhaps you can also tell us something about that meeting, because I am quite sure that not too many people are privy to Minutes of the Meeting with Haug in a hot seat, explaining to the Board season that could have been, but never was.

Having said that, we all know that Norbert is a sport enthusiast, he is a transplant journalist (that was news to me), and he is not Jean Todt, a professional manager, which perhaps a team needs right now.

Edited by Sakae, 14 December 2012 - 22:11.


#3025 Alx09

Alx09
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 14 December 2012 - 22:52

why did u put Ready Steady go with that clip :mad: (even though i like it, i prefer my F1 with engine noise)

Audio was lost in conversion of format + the video was originally made for YT, and FOM are good at detecting audio.

#3026 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:35

Since you are so sure that Haug was dismissed (as opposed to resigned from his own initiative), perhaps you can also tell us something about that meeting, because I am quite sure that not too many people are privy to Minutes of the Meeting with Haug in a hot seat, explaining to the Board season that could have been, but never was.

Having said that, we all know that Norbert is a sport enthusiast, he is a transplant journalist (that was news to me), and he is not Jean Todt, a professional manager, which perhaps a team needs right now.

:confused: i dont understand why most of the members here take everything SO seriously.
loosen a bit people.

btw, it was just a joke, to make it more obvious, a smiley was put at the end.


#3027 packapoo

packapoo
  • Member

  • 731 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:57

:confused: i dont understand why most of the members here take everything SO seriously.
loosen a bit people.

btw, it was just a joke, to make it more obvious, a smiley was put at the end.


C'mon. Be reasonable!
There was a bit of levity when a poster tried to divert attention from the main event to its paint job.

#3028 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 16 December 2012 - 14:16

Hamilton makes first mercedes factory visit

http://www.totalf1.c..._factory_visit/

#3029 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 17 December 2012 - 16:06

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104856

Here is something that should give some insight to the 'too many cooks' theorists. This has been discussed somewhat already here, but what Gillan is saying just about explains and justifies the structure that has been set up at Merc. It could pay off handsomely. They are not jeopardizing 2013, and can fully concentrate on 2014 since months now simultaneously. Takes some serious project management I assume though. LH has made a more calculated decision than the likes of Warwick try to make him out to have made.

Edited by Szoelloe, 17 December 2012 - 16:16.


#3030 ViMaMo

ViMaMo
  • Member

  • 5,026 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:21

Mercedes uses simulator from Cruden? Is it similar to the one used by Lotus?

#3031 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:49

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104856

Here is something that should give some insight to the 'too many cooks' theorists. This has been discussed somewhat already here, but what Gillan is saying just about explains and justifies the structure that has been set up at Merc. It could pay off handsomely. They are not jeopardizing 2013, and can fully concentrate on 2014 since months now simultaneously. Takes some serious project management I assume though. LH has made a more calculated decision than the likes of Warwick try to make him out to have made.


That is all nice, but the fact is that Mercedes is in the weakest position of practically all teams for the 2014 car. They have no baseline to work from, not on the mechanical side, not on the aerodynamic side. Their understanding of the tires has been limited by the faulty suspension for 3 seasons now. It is possible that a re-design means that all data gathered prior to 2013 might be worthless for 2014. For me as an engineer it is a bad thing to work on 2 new projects, with having no safe development baseline to start from.

Edited by seahawk, 18 December 2012 - 06:50.


#3032 onewingedangel

onewingedangel
  • Member

  • 908 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:29

Mercedes uses simulator from Cruden? Is it similar to the one used by Lotus?


I believe the Lotus simulator uses a McLaren design on the hardware side and their own software. The new Mercedes one is reputedly more advanced in terms of hardware than any other in F1, but who knows whose software brings more benefit.

#3033 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:59

That is all nice, but the fact is that Mercedes is in the weakest position of practically all teams for the 2014 car. They have no baseline to work from, not on the mechanical side, not on the aerodynamic side. Their understanding of the tires has been limited by the faulty suspension for 3 seasons now. It is possible that a re-design means that all data gathered prior to 2013 might be worthless for 2014. For me as an engineer it is a bad thing to work on 2 new projects, with having no safe development baseline to start from.


Yes. I think you should give them a call, and tell them to give it up now, before they pump more money into the trash bin. All is lost. I don't really know what you are trying to say here. No head, no tails.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 December 2012 - 08:01.


#3034 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 08:24

Yes. I think you should give them a call, and tell them to give it up now, before they pump more money into the trash bin. All is lost. I don't really know what you are trying to say here. No head, no tails.


I understand your previous post as saying that their structure gives them an advantage, which I do not agree with. While the manpower allows them to work on 2 cars at the same time with more ease than smaller teams, both workgroups still suffer from a lack of reliable data to base their development on and certainly they will have to make sure that the flow of information between the two project groups goes very well, because knowledge gained on the 2013 needs to be used for the 2014 car. Which means even if they have 2 independend work groups, the projects are still closely linked, and the 2014 project depends on the results of the 2013. Worst case would be that the 2013 car again fails to handle the tires, which means that the 2014 group will have a lot of guessing to do.

Ferrari or RBR on the other hand can use their 2011/2012 data to work on the 2013 and 2014 cars. And while the projects are linked, they have the advantage that a wrong decision for 2013 would effect 2014 in a lesser way, because they have the basic data from 2012. So even if they make a huge blunder for 2013 there is a working baseline spec to go back to, in case the 2013 turns out to be a dog after the first races. Mercedes would be in bigger trouble if the 2013 car turns out to be a dog.

#3035 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:22

I understand your previous post as saying that their structure gives them an advantage, which I do not agree with. While the manpower allows them to work on 2 cars at the same time with more ease than smaller teams, both workgroups still suffer from a lack of reliable data to base their development on and certainly they will have to make sure that the flow of information between the two project groups goes very well, because knowledge gained on the 2013 needs to be used for the 2014 car. Which means even if they have 2 independend work groups, the projects are still closely linked, and the 2014 project depends on the results of the 2013. Worst case would be that the 2013 car again fails to handle the tires, which means that the 2014 group will have a lot of guessing to do.

Ferrari or RBR on the other hand can use their 2011/2012 data to work on the 2013 and 2014 cars. And while the projects are linked, they have the advantage that a wrong decision for 2013 would effect 2014 in a lesser way, because they have the basic data from 2012. So even if they make a huge blunder for 2013 there is a working baseline spec to go back to, in case the 2013 turns out to be a dog after the first races. Mercedes would be in bigger trouble if the 2013 car turns out to be a dog.


Yeah I got what you are trying to say the first time too,, but you were wrong and you are completely wrong now. Ferrari 2011/12? Ferrari dumped their design from 2011, and came up with a new one for 2012. Furthermore, their new design was re-designed during the season, and was still slower by 0,5-0,7s by the end of the season. Their wind-tunnel sucked, and because of that their sim sucked too. So what reliable data are you exactly talking about? Not one of their upgrades worked in the last third of this season. What baseline for 2014?? Everyone is designing from scratch for 2014 for god's sake, there is a near-complete reg and design shake-up after next season. New engines, new power trains, new Kers, totally new packaging. Why in the hell would they need 2012/13 data to start design work on that?? Furthermore, what is 'reliable' data? Data is data. If a car is slow, and the design team understands why it is slow, than the data collected is invaluable. There is false data though. Like in the case of Ferrari. That is why they used the Toyota windtunnel. The fact is, Merc does have an advantage with the new structure. They have the staff, they have more than 1 windtunnel, one completely new, and they have the new engine in-house. Only Ferrari is a in a similar position, No-one else. Gillan has said the same, basically. Have you even read that article???


"There are areas of this car over the winter which we need to improve and want to improve for next season but you've also got to balance 2014 on the horizon," Gillan told AUTOSPORT.

"That's a very important season and the resource you've got for what's relevant for 2014 and what's only relevant for 2013.

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 December 2012 - 09:24.


#3036 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 18 December 2012 - 09:42

You concentrate on the aerdynamic side of things, I think about the mechnical side and the tires. Ferrari did ok with the tires in 2011, they did ok in 2012, even if they go down a wrong path in 2013, they always can revert back to a previous desgin solution for 2014. Mercedes on the other has so far completely failed to make the tires work. Hopefully they have found the reason and will fix the problem in 2013, but if they do not, the design for the 2014 car has a huge problem (unkown factor) to it.

For me the strongest position lies with RBR. They have the resources, a strong baseline of design and data and surely will be as well informed about the 2014 package as Mercedes and Ferrari. Ferrari has a problem "just" on the aero side. Which they could fix with the use of the Toyota windtunnel and by re-building their own.
Mercedes on the other hand seems to have had aero problems (their up-grades did not shine either) and mechnical problems (tires do not work), so I still think they are surely not enjoying any advantage for 2013 or 2014. That does not mean they can not be comeptitve though. It just means they have the most work to do.

Edited by seahawk, 18 December 2012 - 10:52.


#3037 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:40

You concentrate on the aerdynamic side of things, I think about the mechnical side and the tires. Ferrari did ok with the tires in 2011, they did ok in 2012, even if they go down a wrong path in 2013, they always can revert back to a previous desgin solution for 2014. Mercedes on the other had so far completely failed to make the tires work. Hopefully they have found the reason and will fix the problem in 2013, but if they do not the design for the 2014 car has a huge problem (unkown factor) to it.

For me the strognest position lies with RBR. They have the resources, a strong baselinge of design and data and surely will be as well infromed about the 2014 package as Mercedes and Ferrari. Ferrari has a problem "just" on the aero side. Which they could fix with the use of the Toyota windtunnel and buy re-building their own.
Mercedes on the other hand seems to have had aero problems (their up-grades did not shine either) and mechnical problems (tires do not work), so I still think they are surely not enjoying any advantage for 2013 or 2014. That does not mean they can not be comeptitve though. It just means they have to most work to do.


I am not concentrating on the aero side, or to that matter, any specifics at all. You are stating the obvious, though. Of course RBR is in the strongest position. So is McLaren. As it has been said, it is going to be pretty hard to make a step forward in the current pecking order, the regs are basically unchanged, and an evo design on a contenders car is a piece of cake, so to speak. Ferrari has to find 5-7 tenths at least as a baseline to improve on further, with an evo design. Lotus some more. For RBR, whatever they find in laptime is a bonus. McLaren were faster than Red Bull. If they iron out their reliabilty, Red Bull will be looking at the rear wing of Perez's car a lot in 2013. (or not) Merc has, as I said, basically been testing for the next car from mid-season, They quite possibly will come out with a fresh design, since the design team that was responsible for the W03 is no more As to making the tyres work, you need to factor in the 2013 Pirellis, with all their shitty attributes, coupled with a highly complex, unique suspension, which basically heated the 4 tyres on the car to four differing temperatures depending on the type of track they ran on. This is something that may be a nonexistent problem next year, if Pirelli lives up to its promise of broadening the operating window next year. That is what all the teams wanted too. Plus, the tyre problems were also related to aero inefficiency of course and furthermore,tyre wear per se was not the problem anymore by the end of the season. So Mercedes has a mountain to climb, for sure. All in all, bringing us back to the original topic, the structure set in place by Merc, could pay off handsomely, because they have everything in place to turn the corner, and some more. Their resources enable them to work on the 2014 design, without jeopardizing a possibly much better 2013. As to what data they rely on to do that: It seems to me that they have done nothing else than collect data for months, they were basically testing for half the season during races. You seem to believe that data collected with a weak car is worthless. I beg to differ. If they will be succesful at turning the corner or not? Well, I don't know, of course. what I am saying though, is that they have made it possible for themselves. The rest is up to brainpower and management.

#3038 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,629 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 18 December 2012 - 10:48

Mercedes uses simulator from Cruden? Is it similar to the one used by Lotus?

No. They use a proprietary sim designed by Mercedes.

#3039 Urawa

Urawa
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 19 December 2012 - 16:05

Haug rated their in-season development as somewhere between bad and very bad (BILD)


Advertisement

#3040 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 19 December 2012 - 16:24

Haug rated their in-season development as somewhere between bad and very bad (BILD)


I know some people would say that's still a compliment. :lol: But its about right.


#3041 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,739 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 19 December 2012 - 16:32

Haug rated their in-season development as somewhere between bad and very bad (BILD)

he's a nice guy and can't say terrible...

#3042 maxx7

maxx7
  • Member

  • 122 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:06

Haug rated their in-season development as somewhere between bad and very bad (BILD)

Give me please link information

#3043 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:34

Give me please link information


you just quoted it


#3044 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:45

Haug rated their in-season development as somewhere between bad and very bad (BILD)

Right, and that's because of..? Fans have done their share of speculation, Haug touched lightly on one or two reasons, but I wonder when someone else on F1 team will come out and confess (although I doubt it).

#3045 1Devil1

1Devil1
  • Member

  • 2,642 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 19 December 2012 - 19:03

Give me please link information


"Die Basis unseres Autos war in Ordnung, der Sieg in China und Platz zwei in Monaco habenā€˜s gezeigt. Die Weiterentwicklung aber war schlecht bis sehr schlecht."

http://www.bild.de/s...17350.bild.html

#3046 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 19 December 2012 - 19:18

You concentrate on the aerdynamic side of things, I think about the mechnical side and the tires. Ferrari did ok with the tires in 2011, they did ok in 2012, even if they go down a wrong path in 2013, they always can revert back to a previous desgin solution for 2014. Mercedes on the other has so far completely failed to make the tires work. Hopefully they have found the reason and will fix the problem in 2013, but if they do not, the design for the 2014 car has a huge problem (unkown factor) to it.

For me the strongest position lies with RBR. They have the resources, a strong baseline of design and data and surely will be as well informed about the 2014 package as Mercedes and Ferrari. Ferrari has a problem "just" on the aero side. Which they could fix with the use of the Toyota windtunnel and by re-building their own.
Mercedes on the other hand seems to have had aero problems (their up-grades did not shine either) and mechnical problems (tires do not work), so I still think they are surely not enjoying any advantage for 2013 or 2014. That does not mean they can not be comeptitve though. It just means they have the most work to do.


Nobody even knows who will produce the tires in 2014.

#3047 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 19 December 2012 - 19:33

Nobody even knows who will produce the tires in 2014.


true. That largely depends on what they came up with next season. Another BS year, and they will be told by the teams to go F.xxf.

Edited by Szoelloe, 19 December 2012 - 19:48.


#3048 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,183 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 19 December 2012 - 22:42

Posts removed. In future, please report the post rather than rising to the bait. Thanks.

#3049 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,416 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 20 December 2012 - 13:00

I beg to differ. If they will be succesful at turning the corner or not? Well, I don't know, of course. what I am saying though, is that they have made it possible for themselves. The rest is up to brainpower and management.

Naturally the fans are concerned as they did not turn the corner at all in 2011 or 2012. To fear a repeat of Toyota-itis is only natural. :)
Toyota was quite innovate and had many good developments that worked, actually, yet nothing to show.

The Mercedes team faces the double task of fixing lack of understanding, to be moving in positive direction and closing down the large lead of top teams too.

Even the definitely competent Newey-lead design team could only win one race for not even Red Bull but only the more powerful Toro Rosso car in pre-2009 development race, the lead of top line team was far too large, even with a fully competent 3xWCC design squad.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 20 December 2012 - 13:00.


#3050 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 20 December 2012 - 17:54

Naturally the fans are concerned as they did not turn the corner at all in 2011 or 2012. To fear a repeat of Toyota-itis is only natural. :)
Toyota was quite innovate and had many good developments that worked, actually, yet nothing to show.

The Mercedes team faces the double task of fixing lack of understanding, to be moving in positive direction and closing down the large lead of top teams too.

Even the definitely competent Newey-lead design team could only win one race for not even Red Bull but only the more powerful Toro Rosso car in pre-2009 development race, the lead of top line team was far too large, even with a fully competent 3xWCC design squad.


Not sure what you mean with the 'lack of understanding' part. Its such a common misconception, and a trite expression also. Its going to be pretty hard to make a step forward though, I agree. But its not an impossible task.