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Mercedes-AMG 2012 W03 - Part II


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#3051 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 21:36

Not sure what you mean with the 'lack of understanding' part. Its such a common misconception, and a trite expression also. Its going to be pretty hard to make a step forward though, I agree. But its not an impossible task.

I guess you consider the no-coanda simply a design mistake? :)

On the other hand Newey persisted with the tunnel + coanda through numerous hopelessly ineffective iterations until they finally got it to work.

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#3052 Szoelloe

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 22:07

I guess you consider the no-coanda simply a design mistake? :)

On the other hand Newey persisted with the tunnel + coanda through numerous hopelessly ineffective iterations until they finally got it to work.


Aahh, that. Yes, You may be right about that. But that was Bigois's lack of understanding. If you take a look at the time-frame of Bigois sacked and the coanda upgrade appearing on the W03, I would say the new aero guy took up the pencil pretty fast. No wonder they cross-referenced it several times between the two drivers, even on a race distance. Maybe they will get the hang of it sooner or later. :lol: Come to think of it, Bigois couldn't make the blown diffusor to work effectively on the W02 either. Same story it was. They saw it in work during the 2010 season, and he did not take up on it, only late in 2011, when they realized the car was too short wheel based to accommodate it. I hope(or not) for Ferrari's sake, that they restrict him to wind tunnel work. The guy is dinosaur.

Edited by Szoelloe, 20 December 2012 - 22:16.


#3053 BigCHrome

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 22:39

I think the top teams have definitely hit a bit of a plateau, which makes it easier for the other teams to catch up.

#3054 sanW10

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:45

was looking through old magazines when I found this!

It has been the same story since BAR days - absolutely no idea about Tyres, low downforce...
Posted Image

& this, all talks no show since 2003 :|
http://i.imgur.com/Rwjo0.jpg

Edited by sanW10, 21 December 2012 - 04:46.


#3055 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 15:10

That's ignoring the fact that actually they took both WDC and WCC in 2009. If not for Honda pulling the plug they would have been championship contenders eever since. So tyring this is really.

#3056 Paco

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 21:36

Top teams plateau??? So Redbull came on strong, Ferrari just nipping to make a breakthrough and McLaren set for a resurrgence.

Lotus full of promise but still way back.

After that, only Force Indie seem to be showing signs of cracking the top ..

MGP is the dark horse but many as I do feel it'll just more of the same if not worse.

So Williams, Sauber, Caterham, Toro.....

Hardly a plateau. Don't take for granterd how herculean a task it is to get up the grid and how amazing a job the top 3 do year and year out. Lotus is no joke and they haven't been able to crack it consistently.

I'm still waiting for Mike Gascoyne to pull what he did at Jordan and Toyota and make a quantum leap at caterham. I feel if there is one sleeping dog, that would be it.

#3057 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 21:39

Top teams plateau??? So Redbull came on strong, Ferrari just nipping to make a breakthrough and McLaren set for a resurrgence.

Lotus full of promise but still way back.

After that, only Force Indie seem to be showing signs of cracking the top ..

MGP is the dark horse but many as I do feel it'll just more of the same if not worse.

So Williams, Sauber, Caterham, Toro.....

Hardly a plateau. Don't take for granterd how herculean a task it is to get up the grid and how amazing a job the top 3 do year and year out. Lotus is no joke and they haven't been able to crack it consistently.

I'm still waiting for Mike Gascoyne to pull what he did at Jordan and Toyota and make a quantum leap at caterham. I feel if there is one sleeping dog, that would be it.


khmm, what exactly are you talking about?


#3058 Shambolic

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 21:45

That's ignoring the fact that actually they took both WDC and WCC in 2009. If not for Honda pulling the plug they would have been championship contenders eever since. So tyring this is really.


Like they were in the years before 2009?

The 2009 was an aberration, a fluke, a convergence of chance. Honda threw everything at the car in its design phase, and it also gained a legally questionable aero device only two other teams started the season with - And like those two teams, as I recall the device didn't originate with Honda/ Brawn either. It was a billion dollar car with a Super Aguri trick, and even then the team more reversed into the title than grabbed it and made it theirs. By the end of the season McLaren had recovered from a terrible start, and Red Bull was showing what was to come. Whilst the champion team were crossing their fingers and doing good luck dances in the hope of making it to the first four rows.

What's worse is if you credit the Brackley team with judgement and not luck in 2009, then you have to question what the hell they have been playing at ever since. Resource agreements be damned, a team that came from nowhere, took the two titles, then got bought by a manufacturer should do better than return to nowhere so quickly. In fact, the decline of the team has been the only rapid thing since they got painted wishy washy grey.

#3059 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 21:48

Like they were in the years before 2009?


Sorry, but I did not read the rest, it just had to be BS.. NO. LIKE IN 2009.


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#3060 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 22:10

Sorry, but I did not read the rest, it just had to be BS.. NO. LIKE IN 2009.

Mosts fans consider 2009 to be a fluke.

Kind of like Fisichella taking a strong second in the Force India or Hill nearly winning in an Arrows, but just over a whole season instead.

With enough money and time they finally did the job (whilst Ferrari and McLaren were distracted by KERS and made terrible cars), but the skill of the technical department still does not appear to be on a level with Lotus let alone the big three teams. :)

It's with good reason they think this because if no development money in 2009 was the problem, then how come the Mercedes-funded 2011 car was worse than the 2010 one, and the 2012 car arguably even worse again ! Fans would be expecting continual improvement and (aero) problems to be rectified reasonably quickly like how Red Bull do it. Although it is true that Red Bull never bother to fix their mediocre and unreliable KERS, although it did seem they get the alternators sorted (probably their fault for pushing something to the max somewhere and breaking the alternator!).

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 21 December 2012 - 22:11.


#3061 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 22:41

Mosts fans consider 2009 to be a fluke.

Kind of like Fisichella taking a strong second in the Force India or Hill nearly winning in an Arrows, but just over a whole season instead.

With enough money and time they finally did the job (whilst Ferrari and McLaren were distracted by KERS and made terrible cars), but the skill of the technical department still does not appear to be on a level with Lotus let alone the big three teams. :)

It's with good reason if no development money in 2009 was the problem, then how come the Mercedes-funded 2011 car was worse than the 2010 one, and the 2012 car arguably even worse again ! Fans would be expecting continual improvement and (aero) problems to be rectified reasonably quickly like how Red Bull do it. Although it is true that Red Bull never bother to fix their mediocre and unreliable KERS, although it did seem they get the alternators sorted (probably their fault for pushing something to the max somewhere and breaking the alternator!).


Let's agree to disagree. If you take the effort to search and read back on some articles, the impact and methodology of Brawn when he arrived, after he was courted and poached by Fry was quite well documented in 2008. If the team would have remained intact as the Honda team, they would have had every possibility to further improve on what they had. But Honda pulled out, and the team was practically demolished. but still won the both championships. So you may agree, that there is practically no continuity from 2009 to 2010. So now, you bring in the 2010/11/12 seasons (which I certainly agree were the biggest pissoffs I have ever lived through as an F1 fan) and try to ignore everything that has been written on the subject, furthermore, you try to rationalize continuity between the pre 2009 and 2010/11/12 seasons, in which time frame, the team was completely restructured, developed, and rebooted again, which practically means starting from zero in 2013. As i said, it is pretty tiring, and I have to say slightly dumb to compare the current team to the BAR Honda/Honda/further back XXXX teams. and even to last year. Like apples to oranges. They have next season to show something promising.

edit: yes, about the 'fluke' thingy. That was quite well documented too. It certainly wasn't a fluke. There were two other teams sporting a DD, one of them with smilar resources as Honda, and did not even come close to compete. Furthermore, it was aknowledged to be a great design DD aside too. It won the WDC/WCC with a sawn-off. hacked behind to install the merc lump, without KERS, had stellar reliability, and has not been developed an inch throughout the season. Not a fluke mate, at all.

Edited by Szoelloe, 21 December 2012 - 22:51.


#3062 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:00

edit: yes, about the 'fluke' thingy. That was quite well documented too. It certainly wasn't a fluke. There were two other teams sporting a DD, one of them with smilar resources as Honda, and did not even come close to compete. Furthermore, it was aknowledged to be a great design DD aside too. It won the WDC/WCC with a sawn-off. hacked behind to install the merc lump, without KERS, had stellar reliability, and has not been developed an inch throughout the season. Not a fluke mate, at all.

Fair enough mate. :)

I suppose my reservations stem from, for instance, that there are engineers (and mechanics) at Red Bull who were at Stewart and Jaguar, and there surely must be the same at Mercedes. And for whatever reason the press chose to believe that the reason 2005 BAR car was slow, was because the team did not understand why 2004 car was fast.

Similarly the Red Bull had a bit of fluke as the simple, evolution 2005 car fixed their reliability problems and turned out to be faster relative to the competition too. Then they came back with a radical 2006 effort "to conquer them all" and it was a unreliable and slow joke. That's why I think flukes can happen.

The IMO more skilful teams seem to be able to fix their problems, and it seems to take less than half a season to do it. Whilst on the other hand Honda (it's the same team after all) had a disaster in 2007 and somehow came back with another car that was also a disaster. I don't think it is so easy to regenerate as you say. An F1 team is a huge entity. It is not like buying a touring car or F3 team with less than 5 engineers, where it is easy to renew t

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 22 December 2012 - 03:10.


#3063 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 03:38

Like they were in the years before 2009?

The 2009 was an aberration, a fluke, a convergence of chance. Honda threw everything at the car in its design phase, and it also gained a legally questionable aero device only two other teams started the season with - And like those two teams, as I recall the device didn't originate with Honda/ Brawn either. It was a billion dollar car with a Super Aguri trick, and even then the team more reversed into the title than grabbed it and made it theirs. By the end of the season McLaren had recovered from a terrible start, and Red Bull was showing what was to come. Whilst the champion team were crossing their fingers and doing good luck dances in the hope of making it to the first four rows.

What's worse is if you credit the Brackley team with judgement and not luck in 2009, then you have to question what the hell they have been playing at ever since. Resource agreements be damned, a team that came from nowhere, took the two titles, then got bought by a manufacturer should do better than return to nowhere so quickly. In fact, the decline of the team has been the only rapid thing since they got painted wishy washy grey.


Yay, lets continue to be ignorant and completely ignore that Brawn had to let go most of their staff due to money issues and they continued to downsize for the RRA, which the top teams ignored.

#3064 TC3000

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 17:42

Yay, lets continue to be ignorant and completely ignore that Brawn had to let go most of their staff due to money issues and they continued to downsize for the RRA, which the top teams ignored.


So, as this topic get's bandit around a lot, let's take numbers (which you get from their Companies House filings)

2008 Honda F1 team --> 717 people (which I'm sure includes members of their engine team)
2009 Brawn GP --> 533 people
2010 MGP --> 487 people (so from the winning Brawn GP to MGP, they lost 46 people out of an ~ 500 workforce, not sure "MOST" descripts this situation correctly)
2011 MGP --> 526 people
2012 MGP --> the accounts have not been filed yet

to give some reference points

Lotus/Renault (Enstone) 2011 --> 500 people
Williams 2011 --> 493 people
McLaren 2010 --> 628 people ( +10 McLaren Applied Technologies, the folks looking after the FI gearbox)
RBT 2011 --> 605 people
Force India 2010 --> 302 people

McLaren & Force India have not filed their 2011 accounts yet, or they are not in the public database yet

MGP is on par with Lotus/Renault & Williams, give or take 20 people, maybe they are/were ahead in 2012, but McLaren & RBT ( and probably Ferrari) have ~ 100 guys/gals more on the books.

#3065 David Lightman

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:08

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104922

Nico really does come out with some bizarre statements sometimes. Who's he trying to kid?

#3066 eronrules

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 18:58

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104922

Nico really does come out with some bizarre statements sometimes. Who's he trying to kid?


i want some of the stuff nico is smoking ... maybe it's burning pirelli smoke :smoking:

#3067 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 19:19

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104922

Nico really does come out with some bizarre statements sometimes. Who's he trying to kid?


He is trying to motivate himself or trying to cut a 'team leader' figure building morale amongst the work force.

Perhaps if he says it enough it might just come true.

Boy I can't wait to hear Lewis' comments next year when he has the inevitable DRS failure, loose wheel, engine/clutch issue or being lapped by Red Bulls regularly 2/3rds into the season.

#3068 Rikhart

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 19:31

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104922

Nico really does come out with some bizarre statements sometimes. Who's he trying to kid?


:rotfl:

#3069 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 19:33

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104922

Nico really does come out with some bizarre statements sometimes. Who's he trying to kid?



Himself?

Reminds me of the statement he made around Belgium time saying the team are nearing McLarens pace haha.

I don't think the team will ever beat the top 3. Try as they may.

#3070 stanga

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 19:48

Boy I can't wait to hear Lewis' comments next year when he has the inevitable DRS failure, loose wheel, engine/clutch issue or being lapped by Red Bulls regularly 2/3rds into the season.


Probably the same comments he made when McLaren underfueled his car or the anti-roll bar failed or his gearbox broke in transit or the fuel pump malfunctioned or his pit stops wet laughably slow or they left a wheel in front of his car at the pit stop or suspension parts were undetected as broken and setup compromised for the whole weekend.

#3071 packapoo

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 00:35

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104922

Nico really does come out with some bizarre statements sometimes. Who's he trying to kid?


Well first off he kidded two journos who in turn kidded their magazine into publishing it.

#3072 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:33

Half of Nicos comments were, as we all know, horseshit.
The other half were probably justified observations from his point of view.He has had three years as a factory driver behind him and gave MS a run. He has to do the same to LH.Rosberg will be tested this year not just by Hamilton, but by keeping the team motivated.

#3073 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 07:20

Probably the same comments he made when McLaren underfueled his car or the anti-roll bar failed or his gearbox broke in transit or the fuel pump malfunctioned or his pit stops wet laughably slow or they left a wheel in front of his car at the pit stop or suspension parts were undetected as broken and setup compromised for the whole weekend.


Yet they were still fast and capable of winning....

Mercedes on the other hand......"what a frickin joke"

#3074 race addicted

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:16

It is strange to hail MGP's "progress" in 2012. Doesn't really help when later in the season they took two steps back. Net result; no progress.

#3075 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:46

Probably the same comments he made when McLaren underfueled his car or the anti-roll bar failed or his gearbox broke in transit or the fuel pump malfunctioned or his pit stops wet laughably slow or they left a wheel in front of his car at the pit stop or suspension parts were undetected as broken and setup compromised for the whole weekend.

well, certainly Lewis has had terrible luck with McLaren this year. Despite this the car was a rocket and I think he would be more frustrated by a car going backwards in the pack instead of improving throughout the season.
he's a racer, he wants to push, to overtake etc...and with Mercedes this year he would have spent 90% of the time defending and being passed by faster cars.

#3076 Paco

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 14:53

Nico should learn to just shutup and say no comment if requested for a statement! Stop putting extra pressure on the team and let there results at the 1st test session speak for itself.

All this yadda yadda crap about a massive improvement in 2012 makes him sound what many already feel that he's an idiot. They didn't get aero right, didn't understand how the tires work, tinkered with 2 types of exhaust and got all confused with it. Wow, massive improvement. If it was, dear lord they must have been completely lost in 2011!!!

Nico, worry more about Lewis then speaking and trying make 2012 seem like the design team came together and that you were better then what showed on track..

#3077 SRK

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:10

So, as this topic get's bandit around a lot, let's take numbers (which you get from their Companies House filings)

2008 Honda F1 team --> 717 people (which I'm sure includes members of their engine team)
2009 Brawn GP --> 533 people
2010 MGP --> 487 people (so from the winning Brawn GP to MGP, they lost 46 people out of an ~ 500 workforce, not sure "MOST" descripts this situation correctly)
2011 MGP --> 526 people
2012 MGP --> the accounts have not been filed yet

to give some reference points

Lotus/Renault (Enstone) 2011 --> 500 people
Williams 2011 --> 493 people
McLaren 2010 --> 628 people ( +10 McLaren Applied Technologies, the folks looking after the FI gearbox)
RBT 2011 --> 605 people
Force India 2010 --> 302 people

McLaren & Force India have not filed their 2011 accounts yet, or they are not in the public database yet

MGP is on par with Lotus/Renault & Williams, give or take 20 people, maybe they are/were ahead in 2012, but McLaren & RBT ( and probably Ferrari) have ~ 100 guys/gals more on the books.

McLaren published 2011 accounts recently.
Posted Image
Posted Image
So 'Design, manufacturing and engineering' or 'Production and Engineering' staff average 474 in Merc and 510 in McLaren. 36 different, only 7%. If Mercedes has a smaller producetion staff than McLaren who has 311 employees (it's likely because production staff in Woking is very large ) difference is even less.

Edited by SRK, 23 December 2012 - 17:21.


#3078 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:24

McLaren published 2011 accounts recently.
So 'Design, manufacturing and engineering' or 'Production and Engineering' staff average 474 in Merc and 510 in McLaren. 36 different, only 7%. If Mercedes has a smaller producetion staff than McLaren who has 311 employees (it's likely because production staff in Woking is very large ) difference is even less.


And?

#3079 Clatter

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:26

And?


And it puts paid to the "Brawn had to dump most of their staff" excuse.

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#3080 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:31

Alonso doesn't call the shots at Ferrari.


Red Bull dont play the 'politics' game just as much? C'mon now.



And it puts paid to the "Brawn had to dump most of their staff" excuse.


What? the 2011 statement? How stable were the numbers of the top teams between 2008 and 2011?


#3081 Clatter

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:49

What? the 2011 statement? How stable were the numbers of the top teams between 2008 and 2011?


Doesn't matter what the numbers were it still shows that Brawn\MGP are not at a serious disadvantage manpower wise.

#3082 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:51

Doesn't matter what the numbers were it still shows that Brawn\MGP are not at a serious disadvantage manpower wise.


That wasn't the arguement itself though.

edit: At least not from me.

Edited by Szoelloe, 23 December 2012 - 17:51.


#3083 jjcale

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 17:58

And it puts paid to the "Brawn had to dump most of their staff" excuse.


Losing 20 - 30% of the staff all at once was pretty traumatic ...They should have recovered by now (so its no longer a good excuse going forward IMO) ... but it was a pretty big deal when it happened - and it must have had knock on consequences.

I dont think a simple comparison of numbers with other teams in 2009 to, say, 2011 tells the full story.

Edited by jjcale, 23 December 2012 - 18:07.


#3084 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 18:05

Losing 20 - 30% of the staff all at one was pretty traumatic ...They should have recovered by now (so its no longer a good excuse going forward IMO) ... but it was a pretty big deal when it happened - and it must have had knock on consequences.

I dont think a simple comparison of numbers with other teams in 2009 to, say, 2011 tells the full story.


Good on you.

#3085 Clatter

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 18:06

That wasn't the arguement itself though.

edit: At least not from me.


Maybe not from you, but it was the one that the numbers were in response to.

#3086 SRK

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 18:17

Ok, during 2008-2010 period team tranformed form grotesque incredibly big moloch to one of the biggest team on the F1 grid... right?

Edited by SRK, 23 December 2012 - 18:19.


#3087 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 19:21

Ok, during 2008-2010 period team tranformed form grotesque incredibly big moloch to one of the biggest team on the F1 grid... right?


Yeah, something like that.


#3088 SRK

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 20:12

If Mercedes is one of the biggest team in the padock from three years why we still talking about this restructuring? This immortal spook from closet not related to last two seasons and for me evet three. Cheap excuse.

#3089 Timstr11

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:29

AMuS: Some info about the Mercedes AMGW04

-Redbull type coanda. The reason why the 2012 coanda overheated the tyres is known. It had to do with the shape of the sidepod.
-Small gearbox with rear suspension designed so it can be changed quickly to suit the tyres.
-all crash tests passed

Edited by Timstr11, 27 December 2012 - 10:39.


#3090 BernieEc

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 10:55

AMuS: Some info about the Mercedes AMGW04

-Redbull type coanda. The reason why the 2012 coanda overheated the tyres is known. It had to do with the shape of the sidepod.
-Small gearbox with rear suspension designed so it can be changed quickly to suit the tyres.
-all crash tests passed


I know a lot might berate me for this. But I swear I could have suggested this to Merc earlier. and I have no technical background.... :)

anyway on to other things. Does anyone in here have any technical insight on the difference between the McLaren Coanda and the redbull one. in what way are they different cos they look the same to me..........apologies if this is not the right thread to discuss this but as I think it has to do with the design path of the merc it does have some relevance

Edited by BernieEc, 27 December 2012 - 10:57.


#3091 jrg19

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:22

AMuS: Some info about the Mercedes AMGW04

-Redbull type coanda. The reason why the 2012 coanda overheated the tyres is known. It had to do with the shape of the sidepod.
-Small gearbox with rear suspension designed so it can be changed quickly to suit the tyres.
-all crash tests passed


Sounds promising...

When does the car get launched?

#3092 BernieEc

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:41

Google translation on the page says


Mechanically the 2013er Silver Arrow has been a face. The new ultra-small gear has become ready in time and brought its first successful test runs behind. The crash tests were passed on time. The chassis has its baptism of fire in the lab already behind. The rear wheel suspension is designed so that it can change the geometry quickly when needed. The tire development requires that flexibility.

While Aldo Costa has the field of mechanical grip, about the aerodynamics is a question mark. The new Mercedes is very different from the old. One need not be a soothsayer that he is similar in many details to the Red Bull, especially around the exhaust. Course 2013 Mercedes continues with the Coanda solution. "This is the way to go," confirmed team boss Ross Brawn at the season finale in Sao Paulo. Meanwhile, the engineers know why the exhaust gases, the rear tires have heated up excessively. The side boxes were to blame. The exhaust jet was lost in free space, after he left the tailpipes and the Coanda slot. Red Bull he will continue beyond the side boxes and the bottom plate to the diffuser edge. Disturbing influences by the natural flow Adrian Newey met with two shafts, where he sucks the trending along the sidepods air into the vehicle. The same is expected from Mercedes.

Even Michael Schumacher is optimistic that many of the structural changes in the team last fall. "In the first two years, we definitely do not have the capacity to fight on several fronts. If there were problems, we had to take care of the problems. Since the development was interrupted. Only now there is an infrastructure that enables both. Properly will grab this infrastructure until 2013 and beyond. the car that we had last year, was indeed built under the old conditions. I'm talking about quantity, not quality. This has always been the reason why development stagnated. Why the last was still the case, I do not understand. Since we created the basic conditions for to come forward. But maybe have a few more cogs ineindergreifen in our structure, until that happens. "

Apologies if somethings got lost in translation....blame google

by the way started the Merc W04 thread. I think we have enough information and speculation to feast on.....
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=179280

Edited by BernieEc, 27 December 2012 - 11:53.


#3093 Kingshark

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:35

I think it's time for this thread to show its ugly head one more, and hopefully last time.

Schumi's opening 3 laps around Austin. Enjoy. :wave:



That has to be, by far, the worst car Michael has ever driven. Slow pace, tyre eater, no balance, pathetic traction, non-existing downforce, horrible reliability, and on top of all of that, an incompetent team. :rolleyes:

Hell, the F310 looked like the best thing since sliced bread when compared to this shitbox. Good riddance WO3, I hope they burn it. :cat:

Edited by Kingshark, 04 January 2013 - 06:35.


#3094 KiloWatt

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:21

I think it's time for this thread to show its ugly head one more, and hopefully last time.

Schumi's opening 3 laps around Austin. Enjoy. :wave:



That has to be, by far, the worst car Michael has ever driven. Slow pace, tyre eater, no balance, pathetic traction, non-existing downforce, horrible reliability, and on top of all of that, an incompetent team. :rolleyes:

Hell, the F310 looked like the best thing since sliced bread when compared to this shitbox. Good riddance WO3, I hope they burn it. :cat:


Ofcourse everyone are entitled to their opinion, but I still firmly believe that deep within the W03 was a good car trying to get out. To see what I'm talking about, watch the Melbourne qualy again and how beautifully fast and stable michael rounded the last corner. I remember fondly of the enthusiasm the drivers dispayed during pre season.

No, this poor old car was the victim of wrong development decisions and neglect of upgrades. Had the theam not "focussed on tyres" at the start of the year and developed the aerodynamics properly as well as continued development throughout the season, it would have been a different story.

But ofcourse I'm being a hypocrite, because at the time I supported those wrong decisions about the tyres and I still support their decision to upgrade their windtunnel.