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F1 Coverage Thread - 2012 Season (BBC and Sky) Part II


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#301 olliek88

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:36

Watching the re-run on Sky right now, (Yes, i'm that sad!) and its nice to see all the interactive bits and pieces are fully available.

It is nice to just sit and watch the on boards without worrying whats going on, it always strikes my how brilliantly consistent these guys are, Alonso was faultless, Hamilton close to it with a few front locks, Grosjean very close a few missed apexes and Button as ever but appeared to struggle with a poor rear end. Brilliant to watch and see all the little idiosyncrasies they all had. Romain is quite a "U" type driver in style (Brakes then turns in then accelerates) Currently watching the pitane channel under the SC and its good stuff.

Sky :up:


Quickly, just watched the SC restart onboard with Romain, how he and Alonso didn't take each other out i don't know!! :eek:

Edited by olliek88, 25 June 2012 - 20:37.


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#302 Clatter

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:37

I forgot to sky+ the race on Sky, so I ended up watching it on the Iplayer instead and I have to say the commentary was good but ONLY the commentary!
For me Sky and BBC are on par with the commentary however the pre race show and the race analysis Sky wins hands down, I simply can't stand that smug Humphrey who only cares about getting up the ladder and no need to explain why I can't take EJ seriously!


Why have you not series linked it?

#303 Fastcake

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 20:51

Why have you not series linked it?


I don't mean to speak for him/her, but I wouldn't want to do that as it would record every practice/qualifying/race which would rapidly fill up your box. Unless I'm mistaken?

#304 DoodoolTalla

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 23:36

I find it bizarre when people say they know what other people *only* care about". You and I have absolutely no idea what he does and doesn't care about, but I imagine it's probably fair to guess he doesn't *only* care about his career.

Do you disapprove of people who have careers? In which case, what do you think of the people who jumped ship to Sky? They decided not to risk staying with an award-winning F1 broadcaster. They decided to look after their own careers because their future at the BBC looked uncertain. And who knows, maybe they decided to jump ship because they were offered more money. They certainly didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, for you and for the viewing public. Does that make them bad? They all have careers to think of, just like you and me. Jake Humphrey's career success comes from doing his job well, i.e. pleasing the majority of people who watch him. I expect if/when you're successful in your own career, you expect a certain amount of respect for it, not to be told you *only* care about getting up the ladder.

Yeah of course it's everyones aim to get up the career ladder but imo with Jake I just don't see any passion in F1. He hardly ever talks about F1 outside his presenting gig (Twitter) and it seems every opportunity he gets he jumps the ship to present a less inferior program or sport, like the 5 minute cameo appearance he got in the Euros or the Commonwealth Games which I doubt it ever got more audience than F1.

#305 hsvone

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 02:52

Gary Anderson for me is quickly becoming one of my favourite 'pundits' for the BBC. His technical explanations are top notch, and his prediction capabilities are scarily accurate. I remember a few races back he was predicting the qualifying times and he was pretty much dead on. He really knows his shit, but then again he would, he's designed race winning F1 cars...


I agree with you. He's really grown on me. He seems to genuinely enjoy his role too which is refreshing. :up:

Ben 'nutting' when Maldonaldo took out Lewis was hilarious. :lol:

I have to say I'm not really missing Brundle any more. I never thought I'd say that!

#306 Massa_f1

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:43

I don't mean to speak for him/her, but I wouldn't want to do that as it would record every practice/qualifying/race which would rapidly fill up your box. Unless I'm mistaken?


It is true i only have 250GB version sky box. I do use the series link, but in doing so it comes very close to filling my box. As there are other shows on the box i don't watch straight away the next day.
It is a shame Sky do not bring back the race build up and Race live separate block back to the EPG. It was much better that way.

#307 ExFlagMan

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 09:53

It is a shame Sky do not bring back the race build up and Race live separate block back to the EPG. It was much better that way.

Its not in their interest - splitting it would mean half the audience would watch/record the build up on BBC when available and so would avoid the adverts - which is probably the majority of the income Sky get from broadcasting F1. :rolleyes:

#308 Clatter

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 13:29

Yeah of course it's everyones aim to get up the career ladder but imo with Jake I just don't see any passion in F1. He hardly ever talks about F1 outside his presenting gig (Twitter) and it seems every opportunity he gets he jumps the ship to present a less inferior program or sport, like the 5 minute cameo appearance he got in the Euros or the Commonwealth Games which I doubt it ever got more audience than F1.


Having watched him present a number of sports he doesn't come across as being passionate about any of the them, but that's not what the BBC want from him. They want a presenter and they are happy with the job he does. As to going to inferior programs or sports, it's pretty stupid to try and put F1 above all else, and in the case of the BBC they have demonstrated that they don't.


#309 Clatter

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 13:35

Its not in their interest - splitting it would mean half the audience would watch/record the build up on BBC when available and so would avoid the adverts - which is probably the majority of the income Sky get from broadcasting F1. :rolleyes:


People can watch\record the BBC coverage anyway, and if you have recorded SkyF1 then you can just FF through the ads. I think they were actually responding to customer requests when they changed the link. Just shows you can't please everyone.

#310 Longtimefan

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 13:41

Yeah of course it's everyones aim to get up the career ladder but imo with Jake I just don't see any passion in F1. He hardly ever talks about F1 outside his presenting gig (Twitter) and it seems every opportunity he gets he jumps the ship to present a less inferior program or sport, like the 5 minute cameo appearance he got in the Euros or the Commonwealth Games which I doubt it ever got more audience than F1.


Agreed 100%

Jake is only interested in his career in the BBC and truely has no passion for F1, his tweets alone on how repeats are just as good as live make me want to punch him hard in the face.

The other BBC guys are fine, Gary Anderson is a true gem indeed!

I would encourage the Beeb to dump Jakey boy for 2013 but it seems they are dumping F1 totally at the end of this season.



#311 Incast

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 14:06

I would encourage the Beeb to dump Jakey boy for 2013 but it seems they are dumping F1 totally at the end of this season.


Says who? The BBC Trust were pointing out that this sharing deal was a way of keeping sports rights at a lower cost. Would seem a bit pointless to promote the concept and then ditch it 1 season later.

Edited by Incast, 26 June 2012 - 14:06.


#312 Fastcake

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 14:23

Says who? The BBC Trust were pointing out that this sharing deal was a way of keeping sports rights at a lower cost. Would seem a bit pointless to promote the concept and then ditch it 1 season later.


The word on the street internet suggest the BBC are only going to keep the current deal for one or two years before dropping F1 completely. I do hope that's not true.

#313 ExFlagMan

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 14:51

People can watch\record the BBC coverage anyway, and if you have recorded SkyF1 then you can just FF through the ads. I think they were actually responding to customer requests when they changed the link. Just shows you can't please everyone.

Assuming that the rates they can charge for advertising is related to the audience size it would be logical for Sky to have one slot so they can use the figures for the whole program rather than the build up which appears to get a much smaller audience that the race.

Edited to complete what I was part thru typing when Windows 7 managed to submit when my computer locked up solid. :evil:

Edited by ExFlagMan, 26 June 2012 - 15:59.


#314 olliek88

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 15:39

The word on the street internet suggest the BBC are only going to keep the current deal for one or two years before dropping F1 completely. I do hope that's not true.


I think the concord agreement would need to be changed for that to happen in the immediate future without a massive penalty fine for the BBC, although that is due up shortly. If Mr E can get that part of the agreement altered in the new one so it no longer requires F1 to be on free to air television in major territories then i can see F1 going to Sky only.

#315 Clatter

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 15:47

I think the concord agreement would need to be changed for that to happen in the immediate future without a massive penalty fine for the BBC, although that is due up shortly. If Mr E can get that part of the agreement altered in the new one so it no longer requires F1 to be on free to air television in major territories then i can see F1 going to Sky only.


The BBC are not bound by the Concorde agreement. They can pull out at any time, subject to any penalty payment.


#316 spacekid

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 18:17

The BBC are not bound by the Concorde agreement. They can pull out at any time, subject to any penalty payment.


That makes sense. I would have thought if the BBC pull out, and the Concorde agreement remains, then its Bernies job to secure a deal with another terrestial network. That could provide a potential bargain to ITV or C4 (or even 5?)

I very much doubt it would happen, but I wonder what the position would be if no one wanted the package?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that part of Concorde were to be scrapped. Times and technology change.
I would still love to see a PPV internet option as I am happy to pay for F1 (say £5-£10 per race?), just can't afford and anyway don't want all the excess stuff you have to pay for with the Sky package.

#317 spacekid

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 18:25

Agreed 100%

Jake is only interested in his career in the BBC and truely has no passion for F1, his tweets alone on how repeats are just as good as live make me want to punch him hard in the face.

The other BBC guys are fine, Gary Anderson is a true gem indeed!

I would encourage the Beeb to dump Jakey boy for 2013 but it seems they are dumping F1 totally at the end of this season.


I agree with all of this. Most of the time I think Jake is fine as a presenter, but I don't believe he really cares about the sport. Sometimes though the smugness seems to turn up a notch and he annoys me. I would much prefer to see Leigh McKenzee take over as main host, I think it would be really fresh.

I have seen very little of Sky, but overall I like the BBC for their light approach and attention to detail, but find their analysis much too shallow and sensationalist. I've seen a little Sky and don't miss Brundle as much as I thought. Ive seen a bit of him and Crofty and it was good, but I find DC and Ben good too. I honestly don't have a preference.

Gary Anderson is boss. Every time he speaks I learn something, and his predictions are usually bang on. Best thing about BBC F1.

#318 Clatter

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 19:47

That makes sense. I would have thought if the BBC pull out, and the Concorde agreement remains, then its Bernies job to secure a deal with another terrestial network. That could provide a potential bargain to ITV or C4 (or even 5?)

I very much doubt it would happen, but I wonder what the position would be if no one wanted the package?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that part of Concorde were to be scrapped. Times and technology change.
I would still love to see a PPV internet option as I am happy to pay for F1 (say £5-£10 per race?), just can't afford and anyway don't want all the excess stuff you have to pay for with the Sky package.


I don't think there would be much trouble finding a channel willing to pick up a highlights package, and that's all that is required since reinterpretation.


#319 chrisblades85

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 20:19

I don't think there would be much trouble finding a channel willing to pick up a highlights package, and that's all that is required since reinterpretation.



ESPN Will have it  ;)

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#320 Juan Kerr

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 21:51

Am I the only one who can't stand BBC? They are so depressing. Brundle & Crofty are just right.

Crofty who I have met and chatted too for quite a while cannot stop himself from talking loud at you and he rides on the wave of 'I'm supposed to know more than you aren't I?" attitude. He's talkative but just sounds like a loud mouthed radio DJ who is making up for his lack of Brains. Brundle is getting further and further up his own backside and looking further and further down his nose at everyone with that too serious look all the time.
I also haven't got much time for Ben Edwards but to be fair DC is not only witty but not at all arrogant, acts dull when it is an entertaining context and is very smart and calm when he wants to be. He never gets frustrated.

I still feel as if there's is someone out the that they've missed and would be absolutely magic with DC alongside also. I have a feeling they'll find them too, even though they tend to get stuck with a commentator unless they're as bad as Allen and Legard.

#321 chrisblades85

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 22:08

Crofty who I have met and chatted too for quite a while cannot stop himself from talking loud at you and he rides on the wave of 'I'm supposed to know more than you aren't I?" attitude. He's talkative but just sounds like a loud mouthed radio DJ who is making up for his lack of Brains. Brundle is getting further and further up his own backside and looking further and further down his nose at everyone with that too serious look all the time.
I also haven't got much time for Ben Edwards but to be fair DC is not only witty but not at all arrogant, acts dull when it is an entertaining context and is very smart and calm when he wants to be. He never gets frustrated.

I still feel as if there's is someone out the that they've missed and would be absolutely magic with DC alongside also. I have a feeling they'll find them too, even though they tend to get stuck with a commentator unless they're as bad as Allen and Legard.



Basically get Murray back!

#322 Cavani

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 22:16

whats up with "it is lights out and away we go" that both edwards and croft use every single race, where is brundle's legendary catch phrases from last year ?

#323 Fastcake

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 22:17

Basically get Murray back!


Hear hear!

#324 spacekid

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 23:11

Hear hear!


Dear lord no :drunk:

Murray is a legend bless him, but when I listen to his old commentary now... lots of passion, but not a lot of information or analysis...

#325 lbennie

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 02:38

have recently been watching the BBC telecasts instead of the Sky ones, and have been pleasantly surprised, and wont be switching back (when i have a choice).
when you're watching sky, you can really tell its a UK broadcast, crofty and ted are starting to grate me with their blatant mclaren fanboyism (understandable given their target audience) and anything involving lewis/jenson/paul is magnified.

BBC on the other hand has a more international feel to it, and don't seem to focus on the brits (as much).
i used to think martin was untouchable as a co-commentator, but DC is starting to become very good indeed.

just my 2c.






#326 ExFlagMan

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 06:36

Murray is a legend bless him, but when I listen to his old commentary now... lots of passion, but not a lot of information or analysis...

Hardly surprising given that much of the time he was commentating from a 12" B&W monitor - occasionally several thousand miles away from the actual race and probably had minimal timing data most of the time :wave:

#327 d246

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:08

have recently been watching the BBC telecasts instead of the Sky ones, and have been pleasantly surprised, and wont be switching back (when i have a choice).
when you're watching sky, you can really tell its a UK broadcast, crofty and ted are starting to grate me with their blatant mclaren fanboyism (understandable given their target audience) and anything involving lewis/jenson/paul is magnified.

BBC on the other hand has a more international feel to it, and don't seem to focus on the brits (as much).
i used to think martin was untouchable as a co-commentator, but DC is starting to become very good indeed.

just my 2c.



I agree, but wonder whether it is just down to the level of experience of each team has. BBC always seem more natural and 'integrated' with the teams - this comes across well in the Forum. DC was never given the same extent of Mansell/Hill mania for various reasons and I think as a result centered himself away from the British media amongst the other drivers and teams. Perhaps this is now beginning to show in the broadcasts. Or perhaps Sky's style of sports broadcast lends itself to British hype and lack of subtilty.

#328 Tonka

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 07:21

I very much doubt if Sky run proper training for their commentators. The BBC does -

http://www.bbc.co.uk...egeofjournalism
http://www.bbc.co.uk...urnalism/how-to

Which is why they are streets ahead of Sky and why BBC trained staff get jobs with other broadcasters.



#329 Haribo

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 09:25

I don't think there would be much trouble finding a channel willing to pick up a highlights package, and that's all that is required since reinterpretation.


My finger-in-the-air guess with no evidence whatsoever is that by 2015 we'll have live races on SKY and a highlights package on C4


#330 Jon83

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:45

whats up with "it is lights out and away we go" that both edwards and croft use every single race, where is brundle's legendary catch phrases from last year ?


'Look but never stare'

#331 goingthedistance

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 10:49

Coulthard is the best of the lot of them IMO. I miss the Coulthard and Brundle pairing as neither Edwards or Croft does it for me.

I really dislike Croft, he's shouty, obnoxious, uses "sat" constantly (I know it's a stupid grammar gripe but I really hate the deliberate misuse of the tense!) and clearly doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. He also has favourites in terms of drivers, as well as some he doesn't like that he constantly (if subtley) puts the boot into.



#332 rhukkas

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:00

I very much doubt if Sky run proper training for their commentators. The BBC does -

http://www.bbc.co.uk...egeofjournalism
http://www.bbc.co.uk...urnalism/how-to

Which is why they are streets ahead of Sky and why BBC trained staff get jobs with other broadcasters.


You clearly didn't endure the commentary of England football games on the BBC. At times is was amateurish and painful... very very painful. And last time I checked Brundle and Croft are both from ... the.... BBC.

And ben edwards learned his trade at Eurosport...

so you're basically talking nonsense.

Edited by rhukkas, 27 June 2012 - 12:02.


#333 Fastcake

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:03

You clearly didn't endure the commentary of England football games on the BBC. At times is was amateurish and painful... very very painful.


No you're confusing the commentary with the game  ;)

#334 Tonka

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 12:19

You clearly didn't endure the commentary of England football games on the BBC. At times is was amateurish and painful... very very painful. And last time I checked Brundle and Croft are both from ... the.... BBC.

And ben edwards learned his trade at Eurosport...

so you're basically talking nonsense.


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Ben_Edwards

His first commentary position was for the BBC with Tiff Needell


Try pulling your head in.




#335 Clatter

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 13:42

My finger-in-the-air guess with no evidence whatsoever is that by 2015 we'll have live races on SKY and a highlights package on C4


I expect by then the live races to only be on Sky, but BBC might hold on to the highlights.

#336 rhukkas

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 13:50

I expect by then the live races to only be on Sky, but BBC might hold on to the highlights.


That has to be the way forward for Sky I suspect. Seems the only financially viable route forward for them.

#337 DoodoolTalla

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 15:50

Btw I much prefer the grid walk with DC. I'm no fan of his but compared to Bundle it's much more calmer and you don't constantly see a tv crew members running around like a headless chicken trying to show him who to interview!

#338 jet7m

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 16:22

'Look but never stare'


It was a catchy line hopefully it makes a return before seasons out.

#339 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 17:17

I expect by then the live races to only be on Sky, but BBC might hold on to the highlights.

That would be disasterous for the popularity of the sport in the UK but I fear thats the way its going. With the BBC constantly outdoing Sky in nearly every area and pushing their coverage to new highs, it seems viewing figures mean nothing to the key people in F1. I've just got my head around watching highlights for some races but thoroughly enjoy the live races on the Beeb. To have every race condensed would really display just how out of touch Bernie is and he desire to limit the viewership of F1 in the UK.

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#340 ExFlagMan

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 17:24

That has to be the way forward for Sky I suspect. Seems the only financially viable route forward for them.

And how long after they get the monopoly before they introduce adverts into the races.
Cannot see a great increase in Sky subscribers likely to result from a monopoly so they have to get the money somewhere.

#341 Clatter

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 17:35

That would be disasterous for the popularity of the sport in the UK but I fear thats the way its going. With the BBC constantly outdoing Sky in nearly every area and pushing their coverage to new highs, it seems viewing figures mean nothing to the key people in F1. I've just got my head around watching highlights for some races but thoroughly enjoy the live races on the Beeb. To have every race condensed would really display just how out of touch Bernie is and he desire to limit the viewership of F1 in the UK.


Totally agree.

I suspect the who is better argument is rather subjective, and personally I haven't bothered with, or missed the beeb. It will be interesting to see if Sky continue with their model of adding the channel as part of the HD fee for future seasons.


#342 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 17:47

I suspect the who is better argument is rather subjective, and personally I haven't bothered with, or missed the beeb.

I've been watching both channels the last few races so just basing my personal opinion on that. The Beeb has improved even on last year so I would recommend you give them a chance even if its just for one race. Then again if you are paying for Sky and are happy with it, fair enough but I think the Beeb offer the viewers a better experience allround.

I doubt the F1 channel will remain free to HD customers for too much longer. They may extend it to the end of 2013 as this year is really a test to see how many viewers they will potentially get, and with significantly less viewers than the BBC, they will want to tempt as many fans as possible over the next couple of years. At present its certainly not a figure that would keep sponsors happy and I highly doubt this number will increase drastically as cost has alot to do with it and value for money it ain't IMO.

#343 Massa_f1

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 17:49

Totally agree.

I suspect the who is better argument is rather subjective, and personally I haven't bothered with, or missed the beeb. It will be interesting to see if Sky continue with their model of adding the channel as part of the HD fee for future seasons.


I bet half of the viewers of the channel are just on the HD pack with Sky. I would very surprised and disappointed if they changed it to full sports only for next year. I think it would shrink the viewing figures.

#344 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:02

I bet half of the viewers of the channel are just on the HD pack with Sky. I would very surprised and disappointed if they changed it to full sports only for next year. I think it would shrink the viewing figures.

There are bound to be a certain percentage of viewers who watch the sport with their HD pack but would be unwilling to pay an extra 10 or 11 quid a month just for the F1. The figures are low as it is, so yes I agree I think it would border on embarrassing if Sky pushed the channel up to the premium rate IMO.

#345 Fastcake

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:20

Totally agree.

I suspect the who is better argument is rather subjective, and personally I haven't bothered with, or missed the beeb. It will be interesting to see if Sky continue with their model of adding the channel as part of the HD fee for future seasons.


That's my biggest worry. If Sky get full control or the viewing figures start dropping - which could happen if they get full control as general interest drops off, how long would they keep it part of the HD pack, or even still having the separate F1 channel itself. I certainly can't afford to upgrade.

#346 MinT

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:29

To date Sky have had a policy of not charging additionally for adding HD channels - if they were going to start (and have seen nothing to suggest they want to) why would they start with F1 HD ?

#347 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:33

To date Sky have had a policy of not charging additionally for adding HD channels - if they were going to start (and have seen nothing to suggest they want to) why would they start with F1 HD ?

Is Sky Sports 1, 2 and 3 HD free presently? F1 is a sports channel like the rest and it is feasible that in the future they may want to add it to their premium sports package with the other sports HD channel IMO.

#348 Clatter

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:36

To date Sky have had a policy of not charging additionally for adding HD channels - if they were going to start (and have seen nothing to suggest they want to) why would they start with F1 HD ?


Normally the HD channels are in addition to the the SD channels that you get in your package, F1HD is different in that if you didn't have the HD pack then you would have to take out a SS subscription to receive F1.

#349 tifosiMac

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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:40

The question was also put to Sky before the season began as to whether the channel would remain for customers with just the HD package beyond 2012 and their answer was that it will remain for 2012. Not exactly a conclusive answer so I think they were careful not to make any promises and especially when it has potential to demand more money from a subscription.

#350 Clatter

Clatter
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Posted 27 June 2012 - 18:44

I've been watching both channels the last few races so just basing my personal opinion on that. The Beeb has improved even on last year so I would recommend you give them a chance even if its just for one race. Then again if you are paying for Sky and are happy with it, fair enough but I think the Beeb offer the viewers a better experience allround.

I doubt the F1 channel will remain free to HD customers for too much longer. They may extend it to the end of 2013 as this year is really a test to see how many viewers they will potentially get, and with significantly less viewers than the BBC, they will want to tempt as many fans as possible over the next couple of years. At present its certainly not a figure that would keep sponsors happy and I highly doubt this number will increase drastically as cost has alot to do with it and value for money it ain't IMO.


I've not been worried about watching the BBC as the main thing I want to see is the race and they both have the same picture. I'm also not a fan of Ben Edwards commentary.

I'm sure when Sky took F1 the plan was to make it part of the SS subscription and what we have now is down to the backlash.