Jump to content


Photo

2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard Part II


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4002 replies to this topic

#1 Mandzipop

Mandzipop
  • RC Forum Host

  • 4,134 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:45

Continuation of the discussion of the 2012 Jenson vs Lewis scorecard. Previous thread: http://forums.autosp...w...&start=4040

Advertisement

#2 jrg19

jrg19
  • Member

  • 6,118 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:57

Just so everyone knows, current score is:

Qualifying:

Lewis 6 - 0 Jenson

Race:

Lewis 4 - 2 Jenson

#3 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,481 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:01

Just so everyone knows, current score is:

Qualifying:

Lewis 6 - 0 Jenson

Race:

Lewis 4 - 2 Jenson


Which, of course, can be countermanded by race wins, Button 1 Hamilton 0. There are 14 races to go, let's see who comes out on top.

#4 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,817 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:11

Yeah, the medal system.

#5 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,481 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:17

Yeah, the medal system.

Medal system or not, who comes out on top at the end will be a marker.

#6 hammibal

hammibal
  • Member

  • 1,857 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:23

Medal system or not, who comes out on top at the end will be a marker.

Forgetting numerous cock-ups i'm guessing?

#7 slmk

slmk
  • Member

  • 4,398 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 01 June 2012 - 20:25

Which, of course, can be countermanded by race wins, Button 1 Hamilton 0. There are 14 races to go, let's see who comes out on top.


Of course.

#8 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,017 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:47

Just so everyone knows, current score is:

Qualifying:

Lewis 6 - 0 Jenson

Race:

Lewis 4 - 2 Jenson


4-1-1 for me

#9 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:00

4-1-1 for me


Anyway Jenson doesn't stand a chance how it is now. Something is wrong in the car for him and whatever it is, it's causing him to lose feeling in the car.

When he gets on top of this it will be close and interesting again, like it was the first three races of this season. Until then Lewis wins any weekend by default.

Edited by MightyMoose, 02 June 2012 - 11:07.
Removed: Cut it out fanboy :rolleyes:


#10 flyer121

flyer121
  • Member

  • 4,570 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:13

5752146[/url]']
Anyway Jenson doesn't stand a chance how it is now. Something is wrong in the car for him and whatever it is, it's causing him to lose feeling in the car.

When he gets on top of this it will be close and interesting again, like it was the first three races of this season. Until then Lewis wins any weekend by default.


What exactly has happened to Button? I m quite puzzled myself....
He needs to come out on top otherwise he risks going back to be under rated as he alway was... With 2011 a one off

#11 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:16

What exactly has happened to Button? I m quite puzzled myself....
He needs to come out on top otherwise he risks going back to be under rated as he alway was... With 2011 a one off

Don't think they are too vocal about it, or they really don't know.

In the McLaren forum someone posted this
Posted Image

but what it means for him, I've absolutely no clue.

#12 Lazy

Lazy
  • Member

  • 5,163 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:16

What exactly has happened to Button? I m quite puzzled myself....
He needs to come out on top otherwise he risks going back to be under rated as he alway was... With 2011 a one off


...or maybe 2009 and 2011 a two off? :)


#13 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,017 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:21

What exactly has happened to Button? I m quite puzzled myself....
He needs to come out on top otherwise he risks going back to be under rated as he alway was... With 2011 a one off


He didn't so bad in 2009 and 2010.

In fact his performance in 2010 (personally I felt the points gap didn't represent the difference in performance between the two but anyhow) seemed to get him possibly more praise than 2009 and a lot of credit. That seemed to be the break through season for Jenson's reputation to such an extent that the fact he then went on to have a better season in absolute terms and also obviously in terms of beating lewis doesn't seem to have increased his reputation as much as it might have done...and I put that down his reputation having already increased so much in 2010. That and the fact much of the attention was on Lewis's travails.

So anyway for many and particularly lewis fans jenson continuing to struggle will move the world much more back towards their pre defined view but also for many I don't think a poor season would necessarily impact that much on the reputation he's built in the last 3 years.

#14 robefc

robefc
  • Member

  • 8,017 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:23

Anyway Jenson doesn't stand a chance how it is now. Something is wrong in the car for him and whatever it is, it's causing him to lose feeling in the car.

When he gets on top of this it will be close and interesting again, like it was the first three races of this season. Until then Lewis wins any weekend by default.


Hey, you should credit me with talking Gareth down from 5-1 to 4-1-1!

#15 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:26

He didn't so bad in 2009 and 2010.

In fact his performance in 2010 (personally I felt the points gap didn't represent the difference in performance between the two but anyhow) seemed to get him possibly more praise than 2009 and a lot of credit. That seemed to be the break through season for Jenson's reputation to such an extent that the fact he then went on to have a better season in absolute terms and also obviously in terms of beating lewis doesn't seem to have increased his reputation as much as it might have done...and I put that down his reputation having already increased so much in 2010. That and the fact much of the attention was on Lewis's travails.

So anyway for many and particularly lewis fans jenson continuing to struggle will move the world much more back towards their pre defined view but also for many I don't think a poor season would necessarily impact that much on the reputation he's built in the last 3 years.

For me 2010 was still disappointing, but I indeed realized that despite him losing out to Hamilton quite badly on the scorecard, the fact that he was close to Lewis on most occasions seemed to improve his reputation indeed. 2011 did enhance that again and Jenson was more and more seen as one of the top 4 drivers instead of behind the top 3. Which it is now again, I can imagine.

#16 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:28

I thought we'd already been through this at length?

Hey, you should credit me with talking Gareth down from 5-1 to 4-1-1!

You should indeed. If it weren't for you both still being wrong...

Nah I'm just kidding. :p

#17 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 4,419 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:29

Anyway Jenson doesn't stand a chance how it is now. Something is wrong in the car for him and whatever it is, it's causing him to lose feeling in the car.

When he gets on top of this it will be close and interesting again, like it was the first three races of this season. Until then Lewis wins any weekend by default.


Ideal!

That means that JB won 2011 by default because Lewis had a bad head!

#18 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:30

Ideal!

That means that JB won 2011 by default because Lewis had a bad head!

Should've shaved sooner then.

#19 Lazy

Lazy
  • Member

  • 5,163 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 10:47

Should've shaved sooner then.


I'm wondering if JB's problems aren't down to the daft new Goatee.

Advertisement

#20 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:15

Anyway Jenson doesn't stand a chance how it is now. Something is wrong in the car for him and whatever it is, it's causing him to lose feeling in the car.

When he gets on top of this it will be close and interesting again, like it was the first three races of this season. Until then Lewis wins any weekend by default.


Sorry but he doesn't win by default. It's just yet another excuse. Couple of weeks ago, Bahrain or Spain he said they put something on the car and that caused problems and that he wouldn't do that again, now it's a gizmo on the car thats been there all year that is the problem, though it wasn't a problem in Aus nor China. Bit like how the car always feels good on saturday fp3 but he makes changes and its no good after that. It's just poor performance that's all, he needs to step up and take responsibility for his complete lack of speed. If he's a top draw driver then this shouldn't be too much of a problem, but he isn't. All these excuses, week after week, he's just become the little boy who cries wolf. Just my opinion though.

p.s all these he needs a perfect car and then he's amazing, well im pretty sure you give every driver or at least 3/4 of the grid a perfect car and they would look amazing too. Doesn't make him stand out does it. Stupid point imo.

Edited by River, 02 June 2012 - 11:18.


#21 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,814 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:20

I'm wondering if JB's problems aren't down to the daft new Goatee.


Nah he shaved that off during the Monaco weekend.

#22 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:30

Sorry but he doesn't win by default. It's just yet another excuse. Couple of weeks ago, Bahrain or Spain he said they put something on the car and that caused problems and that he wouldn't do that again, now it's a gizmo on the car thats been there all year that is the problem, though it wasn't a problem in Aus nor China. Bit like how the car always feels good on saturday fp3 but he makes changes and its no good after that. It's just poor performance that's all, he needs to step up and take responsibility for his complete lack of speed. If he's a top draw driver then this shouldn't be too much of a problem, but he isn't. All these excuses, week after week, he's just become the little boy who cries wolf. Just my opinion though.

p.s all these he needs a perfect car and then he's amazing, well im pretty sure you give every driver a perfect car and they would look amazing too, stupid point imo.

It's indeed just your opinion, because who's making it into an excuse? Not me, not Jenson, but you. Who says he doesn't take responsibility? Just you.

#23 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,905 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:30

Nah he shaved that off during the Monaco weekend.


I love this process of elimination. :lol:

#24 F1Newbie

F1Newbie
  • Member

  • 774 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:32

Button's problem is down to the car? And people say Lewis is the one making excuses when he's being crap? :rotfl:

#25 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,905 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:34

Don't think they are too vocal about it, or they really don't know.

In the McLaren forum someone posted this
Posted Image

but what it means for him, I've absolutely no clue.


I read that in this week and was going to get round to posting it in this thread. Mark Hughes (the same guy who wrote that piece) said something similar back in Korea 2010, saying that JB tried some sort of trick braking switch that backfired hugely on him, but that they had it perfected by the next race in Brazil, where indeed he was very strong relative to Hamilton in the race.

#26 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:36

It's indeed just your opinion, because who's making it into an excuse? Not me, not Jenson, but you. Who says he doesn't take responsibility? Just you.

Jenson's the one making it into an excuse. In fact you are using it as an excuse too, Lewis wins every weekend by default, your word's nobody else's.

Edited by River, 02 June 2012 - 11:40.


#27 PretentiousBread

PretentiousBread
  • Member

  • 2,905 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:41

Jenson's the one making it into an excuse.


He's not, when has he ever said anything like that?

#28 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:41

Jenson's the one making it into an excuse. In fact you are using it as an excuse too, Lewis wins every weekend by default, your word's nobody else's.

ex·cuse
To explain (a fault or an offense) in the hope of being forgiven or understood

Apply this to it.

#29 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:43

He's not, when has he ever said anything like that?

He said only a couple of weeks ago that they put something on the car, can't remember which race, Bahrain or Spain and that was wrong and they wouldn't do it again, now its something different thats the problem, something that was on the car all year and it's why he is having trouble feeling the car, yet there was no such issue in Aus and China. Bad workmen always blame their tools as the saying goes.

#30 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:44

ex·cuse
To explain (a fault or an offense) in the hope of being forgiven or understood

Apply this to it.

or the verb?
Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Apply this to it!

Edited by River, 02 June 2012 - 11:44.


#31 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:45

or the verb?
Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Apply this to it!

Same thing, but you're not applying it, because then you'd find out he doesn't do that.

#32 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,481 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:47

There seems to be some confusion, maybe, excuse and reason have become intertwined.

#33 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:47

Same thing, but you're not applying it, because then you'd find out he doesn't do that.

not the same thing, you only used the noun and forget the verb.

#34 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:48

He said only a couple of weeks ago that they put something on the car, can't remember which race, Bahrain or Spain and that was wrong and they wouldn't do it again

Assuming it's true, is that a fact or an excuse? Do you prefer him to lie about a faulty part they tried on the car?

now its something different thats the problem, something that was on the car all year and it's why he is having trouble feeling the car, yet there was no such issue in Aus and China.

He never said a single word about this! How do you turn a magazine quote from somebody else into an excuse from Jenson? Oh I know...

#35 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:49

not the same thing, you only used the noun and forget the verb.

Wow, really? Pardon me for 'forgetting the verb'. Now you go on applying either of them, because you still haven't.

#36 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:51

Assuming it's true, is that a fact or an excuse? Do you prefer him to lie about a faulty part they tried on the car?


He never said a single word about this! How do you turn a magazine quote from somebody else into an excuse from Jenson? Oh I know...

i'd say excuse as this isn't the problem now, unless he went against what he said and continued to use whatever was causing the problem. But now it seems as if the goalposts have shifted yet again, same old Jenson.

Edited by River, 02 June 2012 - 11:52.


#37 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:52

Wow, really? Pardon me for 'forgetting the verb'. Now you go on applying either of them, because you still haven't.


i applied the verb, sorry it doesn't suit you.
The verb is perhaps the most important part of the sentence. A verb or compound verb asserts something about the subject of the sentence and express actions, events, or states of being. The verb or compound verb is the critical element of the predicate of a sentence.
A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea. Nouns are usually the first words which small children learn.
Do you think using the noun makes more sense then?

Edited by River, 02 June 2012 - 11:56.


#38 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,481 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:53

not the same thing, you only used the noun and forget the verb.


'forget' is the future tense, you should have used 'forgot' if you wish to be pedantic of course.

#39 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 11:59

'forget' is the future tense, you should have used 'forgot' if you wish to be pedantic of course.


sorry but my dyslexia can be a problem sometimes, but ye you are correct. And lights, me saying about my dyslexia is fact but it's still an excuse cause i know i should make more effort with it.

Advertisement

#40 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:00

i applied the verb, sorry it doesn't suit you.
The verb is perhaps the most important part of the sentence. A verb or compound verb asserts something about the subject of the sentence and express actions, events, or states of being. The verb or compound verb is the critical element of the predicate of a sentence.
A noun is a word used to name a person, animal, place, thing, and abstract idea. Nouns are usually the first words which small children learn.
Do you think using the noun makes more sense then?

Completely irrelevant as Jenson didn't do either. He didn't try to lessen the blame for himself and always took responsibility since these problems started. But please, give me another page on the differences between nouns and verbs, I find it fascinating.

#41 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:01

i'd say excuse as this isn't the problem now, unless he went against what he said and continued to use whatever was causing the problem. But now it seems as if the goalposts have shifted yet again, same old Jenson.

You forgot my second question. As expected.

#42 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:01

Completely irrelevant as Jenson didn't do either. He didn't try to lessen the blame for himself and always took responsibility since these problems started. But please, give me another page on the differences between nouns and verbs, I find it fascinating.


How's its the cars fault, him taking responsibilty, enlighten me?

#43 ForeverF1

ForeverF1
  • RC Forum Host

  • 6,481 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:03

Nouns vs verbs, while very interesting, have no place in this thread. It is Lewis vs Jenson which is the main topic.

#44 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:03

How's its the cars fault, him taking responsibilty, enlighten me?

If you enlighten me about when he said that. But I know you can't.

#45 River

River
  • Member

  • 170 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:07

If you enlighten me about when he said that. But I know you can't.


I'll try and find his quote about the part the other week, will take awhile i guess though it was posted in these forums. Then you can tell me how that doesn't matter either.

#46 Lights

Lights
  • Member

  • 9,316 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 June 2012 - 12:25

I'll try and find his quote about the part the other week, will take awhile i guess though it was posted in these forums. Then you can tell me how that doesn't matter either.

I don't even need to, it already says enough if you have to go through that trouble to find a quote that apparently suits your argument. Meanwhile:

Post Bahrain R: "“I didn’t have a very good balance today: I was struggling all afternoon with oversteer. We were taking front wing out of the car all the way through the race, in fact."
Post Spain Q: " I don’t really understand what went wrong. The speed is in the car though, as Lewis showed. I just struggled with a very different balance from yesterday."
Post Spain R: "All in all, we weren’t quite quick enough today – but that’s something I need to solve myself. I need to find a set-up that suits me better as I feel like I have pretty poor grip at the moment. "
Post Monaco Q: "but I didn’t quite have the pace this afternoon. The car felt good this morning and we looked strong, but then we couldn’t translate that performance when it mattered"
Post Monaco R: "Q: What has to happen to get you winning again? JB: It’s simple, I need to be quicker in qualifying and to do that I have to find a balance with the car and find consistency.


#47 BinaryDad

BinaryDad
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 03 June 2012 - 10:49

Which, of course, can be countermanded by race wins, Button 1 Hamilton 0. There are 14 races to go, let's see who comes out on top.


Or on points; Lewis 63, Jenson 45

I do sort of feel for Jenson at the moment. I'm not his biggest fan, and to be honest, it's probably fair to say that I'm a detractor. But it's unlike him to be so far behind his team mate, and for me, it's really a combination of his own narrow operating widow and the development direction that Mclaren have gone in. Perhaps the car is now more stable or balanced, so the driver needs to throw the car around a bit to get the tires to work, and Button is maybe just not able to adjust to that.

Let's see what happens in Canada and beyond. I think they'll be closer together in the next race, but my view is that Hamilton will come out on top. Let's just hope that both drivers are on the podium.


#48 fieraku

fieraku
  • Member

  • 5,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 03 June 2012 - 13:55

I'm wondering if JB's problems aren't down to the daft new Goatee.

I haven't seen Jessica at the races lately,anyone? We know what happened to Lewis when he was pussycat doll deprived.

#49 hammibal

hammibal
  • Member

  • 1,857 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 03 June 2012 - 14:19

I don't even need to, it already says enough if you have to go through that trouble to find a quote that apparently suits your argument. Meanwhile:

Post Bahrain R: "“I didn’t have a very good balance today: I was struggling all afternoon with oversteer. We were taking front wing out of the car all the way through the race, in fact."
Post Spain Q: " I don’t really understand what went wrong. The speed is in the car though, as Lewis showed. I just struggled with a very different balance from yesterday."
Post Spain R: "All in all, we weren’t quite quick enough today – but that’s something I need to solve myself. I need to find a set-up that suits me better as I feel like I have pretty poor grip at the moment. "
Post Monaco Q: "but I didn’t quite have the pace this afternoon. The car felt good this morning and we looked strong, but then we couldn’t translate that performance when it mattered"
Post Monaco R: "Q: What has to happen to get you winning again? JB: It’s simple, I need to be quicker in qualifying and to do that I have to find a balance with the car and find consistency.

I dont think what we have seen recently is Jenson's true level however i think as a rule Jenson isnt a good qualifier and even when the car is more how he likes it, it will continue to be a problem for him considering the closeness of the grid, he was ok at he start of the season when the McLaren was stronger

#50 gricey1981

gricey1981
  • Member

  • 1,176 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 03 June 2012 - 16:35

Button has to improve though.

Being stuck behind a caterham all race would have done nothing for his confidence and reputation.

Still I think Hamilton has led at this point of the season every year they have been together. Jenson tends to be strong right at the start and very much so in the latter half of the season

Edited by gricey1981, 03 June 2012 - 16:35.